Stephen Hill Not Frustrated

[Matt39]

What do you mean by "sign another CB?"  We are assuming Cromartie is getting cut, correct? Otherwise I'm not sure I see the $$ or the point. 

 

I'd see what Vontae or Talib are looking for....even if Cro restructures. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

Maybe they trade up for Watkins...Id be for that. Sign Tate. Sign another CB. Draft a tight end.

 

I'm not sure we'll have enough to trade up that far, I think us as fans should get used to the idea of seeing a Khalil Mack, Vic Beasley or Kyle Van Noy get drafted to fill the vacant OLB position as those are the guys that will probably be good value down there.  The best thing we can hope for is that there goes a run on OTs and Qbs early, pushing some of the skill guys down: which certainly seems possible given that there are a solid 5 tackles who can be drafted top 15 and about 5 QBs who are all in the discussion at the moment for the first round. 

 

I was huge on Lee all last year, as well as this year and while I'm not buying into his drops and injuries, I think Watkins has done enough to show his rookie season wasn't a fluke and pass him slightly based on his current season.  His 9.71 yards after the catch are absolutely insane and he's a well built kid too.  Outside of those top guys, I'm really high on Matthews, Cooks and Beckham Jr. 

[Matt39]

I'm not sure we'll have enough to trade up that far, I think us as fans should get used to the idea of seeing a Khalil Mack, Vic Beasley or Kyle Van Noy get drafted to fill the vacant OLB position as those are the guys that will probably be good value down there.  The best thing we can hope for is that there goes a run on OTs and Qbs early, pushing some of the skill guys down: which certainly seems possible given that there are a solid 5 tackles who can be drafted top 15 and about 5 QBs who are all in the discussion at the moment for the first round. 

 

I was huge on Lee all last year, as well as this year and while I'm not buying into his drops and injuries, I think Watkins has done enough to show his rookie season wasn't a fluke and pass him slightly based on his current season.  His 9.71 yards after the catch are absolutely insane and he's a well built kid too.  Outside of those top guys, I'm really high on Matthews, Cooks and Beckham Jr. 

 

Its tough for me to get high on USC players or ND for that matter.

 

But if he can play he can play. Golden Tate I love and I probably wouldnt have drafted him.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Its tough for me to get high on USC players or ND for that matter.

 

But if he can play he can play. Golden Tate I love and I probably wouldnt have drafted him.

 

Definitely Agree, especially USC WRs.  However, Woods has made a solid transition to the NFL thus far and Lee was leaps and bounds better than he was last year. I think when push comes to shove, I believe Watkins is more solidly built and more explosive, but Lee is a freak athletic as well. 

 

Personally I think besides locking Wilkerson up, Idzik will bring someone like Tate or Maclin in so as they can still go BPA, but without risking us not upgrading the offense. The last thing we want is to reach on a WR or TE just to do so, when OLB or Safety is the best option. While I don't want to go crazy during free agency, I definitely hope and expect to bring in some talent at WR.

[bitonti]

 

1) Watkins

2a. Marqise Lee

2b. Mike Evans

 

 

the more i look at this crop the less i think the Jets go WR in rd 1 (assuming they go 9-7 or thereabouts and pick in the 20s). the best WR from this year's crop was Keenan Allen a high 3rd.

[Matt39]

the more i look at this crop the less i think the Jets go WR in rd 1 (assuming they go 9-7 or thereabouts and pick in the 20s). the best WR from this year's crop was Keenan Allen a high 3rd.

 

This was also a pretty bad year for wide outs.

[Matt39]

Definitely Agree, especially USC WRs.  However, Woods has made a solid transition to the NFL thus far and Lee was leaps and bounds better than he was last year. I think when push comes to shove, I believe Watkins is more solidly built and more explosive, but Lee is a freak athletic as well. 

 

Personally I think besides locking Wilkerson up, Idzik will bring someone like Tate or Maclin in so as they can still go BPA, but without risking us not upgrading the offense. The last thing we want is to reach on a WR or TE just to do so, when OLB or Safety is the best option. While I don't want to go crazy during free agency, I definitely hope and expect to bring in some talent at WR.

 

Yeah good point. Really hoping they like Tate. Kid always grades out higher than people realize. My man Russell is a beast though too.

[BroadwayJoe12]

the more i look at this crop the less i think the Jets go WR in rd 1 (assuming they go 9-7 or thereabouts and pick in the 20s). the best WR from this year's crop was Keenan Allen a high 3rd.

 

It's certainly possible that it's another 2008 where all the fans and draftniks have Malcom Kelly, Devin Thomas and Limas Sweed as first round talents and then guys like Desean Jackson and Jordy Nelson in the second round end up being the stud picks. The only two guys I'm wiling to put money on being good pros are Matthews and Beckham Jr, but I admit that Watkins, Evans and Lee have so much explosiveness and potential that they deserve to be rated ahead of them based on their ability to be stars.  But I fully admit I'm no scout, so who knows. 

 

It's why I was saying we shouldn't be too surprised to see Mack, Beasley or Van Noy as our first pick.

[Matt39]

Oh jeeze...didnt the Skins go back to back with Kelly and Devin Thomas?

[BroadwayJoe12]

Oh jeeze...didnt the Skins go back to back with Kelly and Devin Thomas?

 

Malcolm Kelly sounds right in Washington, not sure about Thomas, but I really don't remember who of the busts went where, other than Limas Sweed was definitely in Pittsburgh and that was the first draft that really proved to me how little I know about projecting talent.  I'd like to think that I've gotten better over the last 6 years, but I was really surprised Sweed was such an epic bust and then Nelson is the stud of the class. Djax and Lynch were two of my favorite players in college football that year so I watched a lot of Cal in addition to LSU and was surprised Jackson went so low.

 

 I remember a running gag at SWDC over Nelson all year, but he's really showed himself to be a good WR, if not a slight product of Rodgers. 

[Matt39]

Malcolm Kelly sounds right in Washington, not sure about Thomas, but I really don't remember who of the busts went where, other than Limas Sweed was definitely in Pittsburgh and that was the first draft that really proved to me how little I know about projecting talent.  I'd like to think that I've gotten better over the last 6 years, but I was really surprised Sweed was such an epic bust and then Nelson is the stud of the class. Djax and Lynch were two of my favorite players in college football that year so I watched a lot of Cal in addition to LSU and was surprised Jackson went so low.

 

 I remember a running gag at SWDC over Nelson all year, but he's really showed himself to be a good WR, if not a slight product of Rodgers. 

 

And there's always Roy Williams lol

[Matt39]

For example:

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZD7yTlCEAAoe-k.jpg:large

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZD7hmqCcAALy0E.jpg:large

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZD7oyQCMAAGIqw.jpg:large

 

not letting me post the pics

[#27TheDominator]

For example:

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZD7yTlCEAAoe-k.jpg:large

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZD7hmqCcAALy0E.jpg:large

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZD7oyQCMAAGIqw.jpg:large

 

not letting me post the pics

 

Nice telestrator work.

 

I think those pix just show just how inexperienced both Geno and Hill are.  HIll is presumably looking at the gap he is running to. Depending on where the ball is supposed to be delivered that can be either a minor faux pas or a disaster.  Geno looks to be extremely worried about the Pats 3 man rush when all he has to do is slide to the right and Colon will be waiting to stand up WIlfork.  I don't remember this play, but Geno looks like he is running rather than sliding in the pocket.  That may have been a good thing since it looks like he can walk pretty far up the middle of field before anybody touches him. 

[Matt39]

Nice telestrator work.

 

I think those pix just show just how inexperienced both Geno and Hill are.  HIll is presumably looking at the gap he is running to. Depending on where the ball is supposed to be delivered that can be either a minor faux pas or a disaster.  Geno looks to be extremely worried about the Pats 3 man rush when all he has to do is slide to the right and Colon will be waiting to stand up WIlfork.  I don't remember this play, but Geno looks like he is running rather than sliding in the pocket.  That may have been a good thing since it looks like he can walk pretty far up the middle of field before anybody touches him. 

 

Cant take credit for it, these arent my pics. But yeah watching Hill its something Ive noticed.

[Sperm Edwards]

Malcolm Kelly sounds right in Washington, not sure about Thomas, but I really don't remember who of the busts went where, other than Limas Sweed was definitely in Pittsburgh and that was the first draft that really proved to me how little I know about projecting talent.  I'd like to think that I've gotten better over the last 6 years, but I was really surprised Sweed was such an epic bust and then Nelson is the stud of the class. Djax and Lynch were two of my favorite players in college football that year so I watched a lot of Cal in addition to LSU and was surprised Jackson went so low.

 

 I remember a running gag at SWDC over Nelson all year, but he's really showed himself to be a good WR, if not a slight product of Rodgers. 

 

Jackson dropped because he was like 169 lbs.

[#27TheDominator]

Cant take credit for it, these arent my pics. But yeah watching Hill its something Ive noticed.

 

Yeah, but Geno probably should be throwing it anyway

[bitonti]

It's certainly possible that it's another 2008 where all the fans and draftniks have Malcom Kelly, Devin Thomas and Limas Sweed as first round talents and then guys like Desean Jackson and Jordy Nelson in the second round end up being the stud picks. The only two guys I'm wiling to put money on being good pros are Matthews and Beckham Jr, but I admit that Watkins, Evans and Lee have so much explosiveness and potential that they deserve to be rated ahead of them based on their ability to be stars.  But I fully admit I'm no scout, so who knows. 

 

It's why I was saying we shouldn't be too surprised to see Mack, Beasley or Van Noy as our first pick.

 

Great post.

 

free assoc responses on those names: 

 

 

Beckham (odell jr) - WR from LSU is right in that sweet spot of speed but not physically big enough to be worth a Calvin pick. Santonio, Santana those types of guys go mid/late 1 and if he runs that 4.3 (best case) it's a plausible Idzik pick. They did take 2 SEC guys in rd 1 last year and why not keep going? Rueben Randle was arguably the WR they could have had instead of Stephen Hill. Most would agree that Randle has the better hands and the better career (so far). It's a pick that makes sense on alot of levels. 

 

Matthews (jake) - OT from Texas A&M should be long gone. Even if he falls im not sure how that makes this Jets team that much better. Brick is solid and Howard has been playing lights out. If they let Austin Howard go, maybe this pick makes sense. 

 

Matthews (jordan) - WR from Vandy is the top senior WR according to nflds who have him as a cusp 1-2 Riggins actually likes Mike Davis out of Texas more and both are interesting names to watch in Mobile. 

 

 

 

Beasley (vic) - OLB/DE from Clemson interesting thought and Rex will know a ton about him for all his trips watching Seth. Historically the Clemson DE in rd 1 has been a nightmare draft pick (but then again Alabama Cbs also not a good legacy and they did that).  

 

Watkins (Sammy) - Rex will also see a ton of Sammy Watkins at Clemson (who also should be long gone).  JMO If Sammy Watkins somehow fell to 20+ for whatever reason he's an insta pick. I don't think guys with his playmaking make it to where the Jets hopefully will be picking .

 

Evans (mike) - WR from Texas A&M is another plausible pick, but is he Mike Williams type (can he break the jam)? If he runs a 4.6 or whatever he won't be worth a first rounder in late April. Some would say he's a great value late in the round (and maybe that's true) but the NFL community forgets about real football by that point in the calendar. He needs to run well for this to be the pick. But he's SEC and again that's what they did last year so we can't completely rule it out.

 

Lee (marqise) - WR from USC is another very interesting name but it doesn't seem realistic. It might sound spiteful or whatever but this franchise might be done paying USC grads for a while. (Ohio St grads too).  these seem like arbitrary distinctions (why should Lee suffer for Sanchez? is a rational question to ask) the problem is the people who sign the checks in this league aren't always rational. Woody wouldn't veto it on draft day but it's a risky pick to make for a guy trying keep his job. It all goes into the evaluation process and the Jets have fired alot of people recently. Maybe rex pounds the table for vic beasley he stinks and Rex never gets that third contract, that's how these guys have to think. It's all sun tzu all the time. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

Great post.

 

free assoc responses on those names: 

 

 

Beckham (odell jr) - WR from LSU is right in that sweet spot of speed but not physically big enough to be worth a Calvin pick. Santonio, Santana those types of guys go mid/late 1 and if he runs that 4.3 (best case) it's a plausible Idzik pick. They did take 2 SEC guys in rd 1 last year and why not keep going? Rueben Randle was arguably the WR they could have had instead of Stephen Hill. Most would agree that Randle has the better hands and the better career (so far). It's a pick that makes sense on alot of levels. 

 

Matthews (jake) - OT from Texas A&M should be long gone. Even if he falls im not sure how that makes this Jets team that much better. Brick is solid and Howard has been playing lights out. If they let Austin Howard go, maybe this pick makes sense. 

 

Matthews (jordan) - WR from Vandy is the top senior WR according to nflds who have him as a cusp 1-2 Riggins actually likes Mike Davis out of Texas more and both are interesting names to watch in Mobile. 

 

 

 

Beasley (vic) - OLB/DE from Clemson interesting thought and Rex will know a ton about him for all his trips watching Seth. Historically the Clemson DE in rd 1 has been a nightmare draft pick (but then again Alabama Cbs also not a good legacy and they did that).  

 

Watkins (Sammy) - Rex will also see a ton of Sammy Watkins at Clemson (who also should be long gone).  JMO If Sammy Watkins somehow fell to 20+ for whatever reason he's an insta pick. I don't think guys with his playmaking make it to where the Jets hopefully will be picking .

 

Evans (mike) - WR from Texas A&M is another plausible pick, but is he Mike Williams type (can he break the jam)? If he runs a 4.6 or whatever he won't be worth a first rounder in late April. Some would say he's a great value late in the round (and maybe that's true) but the NFL community forgets about real football by that point in the calendar. He needs to run well for this to be the pick. But he's SEC and again that's what they did last year so we can't completely rule it out.

 

Lee (marqise) - WR from USC is another very interesting name but it doesn't seem realistic. It might sound spiteful or whatever but this franchise might be done paying USC grads for a while. (Ohio St grads too).  these seem like arbitrary distinctions (why should Lee suffer for Sanchez? is a rational question to ask) the problem is the people who sign the checks in this league aren't always rational. Woody wouldn't veto it on draft day but it's a risky pick to make for a guy trying keep his job. It all goes into the evaluation process and the Jets have fired alot of people recently. Maybe rex pounds the table for vic beasley he stinks and Rex never gets that third contract, that's how these guys have to think. It's all sun tzu all the time. 

 

 

I remember you pointing it out a year or two back that we only had about three SEC players on our team, which was extremely surprising.  Not being an SEC homer here, but it did seem like Idzik was targeting the bigger name schools, seeing as we went SEC, SEC, Big 12 with our first three picks and even though Winters might turn out to be a player, I think moving up 5 spots for Warford was the better move. Running up to the draft I remember we both were in agreement that he very well could be the best run-blocking guard in a loaded OG draft and to me I thought he was worth targeting. Regardless, I certainly don't see us veering from those players from the bigger schools.

 

 

That's a great point about Beasley and Watkins, I never even thought about how he'd see those guys live when watching his son.  Not to mention he'd get a first-hand account of those kids' personality and what they do behind closed doors from his son, which might not be made available to some scouts.

[Matt39]

I remember you pointing it out a year or two back that we only had about three SEC players on our team, which was extremely surprising. Not being an SEC homer here, but it did seem like Idzik was targeting the bigger name schools, seeing as we went SEC, SEC, Big 12 with our first three picks and even though Winters might turn out to be a player, I think moving up 5 spots for Warford was the better move. Running up to the draft I remember we both were in agreement that he very well could be the best run-blocking guard in a loaded OG draft and to me I thought he was worth targeting. Regardless, I certainly don't see us veering from those players from the bigger schools.

That's a great point about Beasley and Watkins, I never even thought about how he'd see those guys live when watching his son. Not to mention he'd get a first-hand account of those kids' personality and what they do behind closed doors from his son, which might not be made available to some scouts.

At the end of the day though IMO...competition doesn't separate prospects(or shouldn't). Courtney Upshaw is/was a stiff. Same with Trent.

The SEC is the best football in the country- but if Clowney was playing D2 he's still a first round pick.

[BroadwayJoe12]

At the end of the day though IMO...competition doesn't separate prospects(or shouldn't). Courtney Upshaw is/was a stiff. Same with Trent.

The SEC is the best football in the country- but if Clowney was playing D2 he's still a first round pick.

 

I definitely agree, I just think if you have two comparable players one should opt for the one with better competition. Upshaw is a stiff from the aspect where people wanted him to be a pass rush threat, but he actually graded out very well as a run-stuffer since entering the league. I know that's not your point and it is valid, I just have a tough time evaluating players to begin with, let alone ones that beat up on lesser competition.

[Villain The Foe]

Pretty good in college and lazy does not equal pretty good in the NFL

 

Neither does 49 collegiate catches and "measurables" Did you really type what I just read? lol. 49 catches in an entire collegiate career doesnt equal Calvin Johnson or Demaryius Thomas, unless of course you're Mike Tannenbaum or the Jet fans who defend this logic. Megatron and Thomas have both equaled Hills total collegiate catching amount in just one Collegiate year. Even the "pretty good but lazy" Jeffery caught 49 catches in his "fat" year. lol. The difference here is that one is overachieving the opinion of critics (Jeffery being a fatty to being a legit WR) to the other (Hill) underachieving those "measureables". 

[Villain The Foe]

But, Hill has made plays when given the opportunity.  When they've thrown to him, he's caught it.  1 drop on the year.  I've watched him fight for extra yards (see the Pats game), I've seen him take big hits and hold on to the ball (see the Steelers game), I've seen him break the game wide open (see Bills game), and I've seen him wide open and his QB miss him, numerous times.  The situation, has an enormous impact on production.  Enormous.  

 

Prior to the concussion, he was on pace for a great season.  I think Bit's projected it out before.

 

Moral to the story, I think its way to early to call him a bust and I dont think its fair comparing him to Jeffrey  just because of draft position when they are in completely different situations...like, not comparable situations at all.  Even though, Jeffrey is clearly a better player, right now.

I've seen this too. Im not saying that he couldnt be a serviceable WR in the league. Im simply saying that He's not a #1 or #2 WR. He's a situational WR, primarily a deep threat if only left in one-on-one situations.  

 

As for the Bills game that everyone likes to bring up, wasnt the bills #1 and #2 CBs along with their best Safety out in that game? And did that turn into being Hills best game as a pro compiling 108 yards with 51 of those coming on 1 play? Lets be serious here. Poeple talked about how he was on pace for a 1,400 yard season yet that was the 3rd GAME OF THE SEASON and his first ever 100 yard game which came on just 3 catches. Its not like he was destroying the Bills throughout the game. He caught less passes than he played quarters in the game. And please dont think that im underestimating the performance. What im saying is that we have never seen him do this before or after that bills game yet people want to continue to hang on this game. I just talked about a 6 game stretch with Jeffery and him being neck-and-neck stats wise with Marshall in Chi-town.

 

And for the record, Jeffery is on pace for a 1,300 yard season going into the 11th week of the season. We're not talking about a pace of1,400 yards after just the 3rd game here lol. This is the non-sense that im talking about. Anquan Boldin after week one was on pace to put up over 3,300 yards receiving this year. You know how many yards he has going into week  11? Try 574 yards lol. Goes to show how ridiculous that 1,400 yards sounds like in week 3. Let me show you how ridiculous right now. As of week 11 Hill is on pace to finish the season with 604 yards. Thats less than half of the projected 1,400 and just 30 yards more than what Boldin has going into week 11 right now lol. When you're talking about 1,300 yards going into week 11 thats a different story because you have enough info to see some consistency. Hill hasnt shown consistency since being a professional football player. No need to defend the undefendable here. 

 

Hill is a Jet, and because of that I will always wish him the best of course, but at the same time dude has had 2 decent games and 1 really good game that came with a HUGE catch, his entire career. Thats not going to cut it in this league....unless Tanny is the GM of course (Glad to have you Idzik!!!!)

[JiFtheOracle]

I've seen this too. Im not saying that he couldnt be a serviceable WR in the league. Im simply saying that He's not a #1 or #2 WR. He's a situational WR, primarily a deep threat if only left in one-on-one situations.

As for the Bills game that everyone likes to bring up, wasnt the bills #1 and #2 CBs along with their best Safety out in that game? And did that turn into being Hills best game as a pro compiling 108 yards with 51 of those coming on 1 play? Lets be serious here. Poeple talked about how he was on pace for a 1,400 yard season yet that was the 3rd GAME OF THE SEASON and his first ever 100 yard game which came on just 3 catches. Its not like he was destroying the Bills throughout the game. He caught less passes than he played quarters in the game. And please dont think that im underestimating the performance. What im saying is that we have never seen him do this before or after that bills game yet people want to continue to hang on this game. I just talked about a 6 game stretch with Jeffery and him being neck-and-neck stats wise with Marshall in Chi-town.

And for the record, Jeffery is on pace for a 1,300 yard season going into the 11th week of the season. We're not talking about a pace of1,400 yards after just the 3rd game here lol. This is the non-sense that im talking about. Anquan Boldin after week one was on pace to put up over 3,300 yards receiving this year. You know how many yards he has going into week 11? Try 574 yards lol. Goes to show how ridiculous that 1,400 yards sounds like in week 3. Let me show you how ridiculous right now. As of week 11 Hill is on pace to finish the season with 604 yards. Thats less than half of the projected 1,400 and just 30 yards more than what Boldin has going into week 11 right now lol. When you're talking about 1,300 yards going into week 11 thats a different story because you have enough info to see some consistency. Hill hasnt shown consistency since being a professional football player. No need to defend the undefendable here.

Hill is a Jet, and because of that I will always wish him the best of course, but at the same time dude has had 2 decent games and 1 really good game that came with a HUGE catch, his entire career. Thats not going to cut it in this league....unless Tanny is the GM of course (Glad to have you Idzik!!!!)

Haha - you love you some Alshon Jeffrey.

[Villain The Foe]

Haha - you love you some Alshon Jeffrey.

He's a very good WR.

[bitonti]

He's a very good WR.

 

i wonder how jeffrey would do with geno throwing him into concussion land

[Matt39]

i wonder how jeffrey would do with geno throwing him into concussion land

 

Hill puts himself into concussion land.

[bitonti]

Hill puts himself into concussion land.

 

from one devils advocate to another, there's a gray area in the incognito/martin issue.  Fair enough. You are flat out wrong here.  Geno is 100% to blame. there's no amount of body-ing that Hill can do that changes the outcome of that throw. 

[T0mShane]

from one devils advocate to another, there's a gray area in the incognito/martin issue. Fair enough. You are flat out wrong here. Geno is 100% to blame. there's no amount of body-ing that Hill can do that changes the outcome of that throw.

Fact: Hill has never produced anything on a football field on any level anywhere ever.

[Villain The Foe]

i wonder how jeffrey would do with geno throwing him into concussion land

The furthest I've even entertained this point of view by you was with an "lol". You cannot be serious. Hill sucks dude.

[BroadwayJoe12]

The furthest I've even entertained this point of view by you was with an "lol". You cannot be serious. Hill sucks dude.

 

I really don't understand how agitated you are over this pick: I like the kid a lot, he's a hell of a receiver, but the fact of the matter is that he wasn't a slam-dunk pick. Teams shy away from players who show that they are disinterested or lack work ethic, especially at the WR position. Hill, for all his flaws, is supposed to be an exceptional kid with great work ethic. How many WRs would commit to a school that never throws the ball and yet still be engaged enough to average 30 yards a reception? 

 

It's pretty obvious that Jeffery is the better WR right now and maybe always will be, but there was plenty of reason he wasn't the selection and to go on and on about it is beating a dead horse. Where's the outrage for drafting Winters over Warford this year? Where's the outrage for drafting Kyle Wilson over Gronk or Ducasse over Jimmy Graham, Navaroo Bowman or Geno Atkins? These things happen man and whether you want to believe it or not, there's many rational reasons Jeffery and other guys were passed by 32 teams, some multiple times.  

[Matt39]

from one devils advocate to another, there's a gray area in the incognito/martin issue.  Fair enough. You are flat out wrong here.  Geno is 100% to blame. there's no amount of body-ing that Hill can do that changes the outcome of that throw. 

 

He ran the wrong route.

[Matt39]

Fact: Hill has never produced anything on a football field on any level anywhere ever.

 

Hill is probably the biggest project player I've ever seen on the Jets. And they expected him to start from Day 1.

[JiFtheOracle]

Hill is probably the biggest project player I've ever seen on the Jets. And they expected him to start from Day 1.

Ever? Come'on

[Matt39]

Ever? Come'on

 

In terms of rawness/expectations- yes.

[JiFtheOracle]

In terms of rawness/expectations- yes.

Gholston by far.