Might want to start thinking about Josh Mccown

[CTM]

Are you serious MexiRoll II?  I saw nothing that told me he would contribute?  I saw his tape and I was concerned?  He specifically stated the others loved the kid and he didn't.  There is no way you can blame that pick on Rex.  None.  Even if you want to, I am tired of reading how Hill is some kind of crippled moron incapable of playing while Brian Quick and AJ Jennings went ahead of him.  I think he has more than those two combined and Hill was the one that was going to take time to develop.  Why can't we be more like the Niners? Ugh

 

Relax cujo:

 

This is what Rex ended with:

 

"He was the guy they all wanted, but honestly, when it came down to it, a wideout? Not my dream pick. "

[Sperm Edwards]

Trestman knew Cutler was a waste so while Cutler was his and apparently still is his starter, he was actually spending all his time "developing" 34 year old Josh McCown because he knew that if this guy got his shot...LOOK OUT!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm certain Trestman spent the majority of his work and time this offseason - his first one with the team, after wallowing away in Montreal for most of the past decade - trying to do everything in his power to make Josh McCown into a viable NFL starter.  He finally gets his big shot and THAT is going to be his primary focus.  This is a very believable theory, of course.  Just like the fairy tale that Trestman turned around Rich Gannon's career, when the fact is that Gannon was already a first team All Pro QB the season prior to Trestman's arrival.

 

It's also a far more believable story than the possibility that McCown, with over a decade of NFL experience, is finally "getting it" at least to the point where he could string together a half dozen games where he looks like a real NFL starter, provided he's exclusively facing off against the "Who's Who" of crappy NFL pass defenses (minus the Jets).  And yes, his superior WRs have also been of benefit to him.  But they'd be worthless to him if he wasn't actually making good throws (along with defenses dropping opportunities he gives them like last night).

 

Conversely, Cutler is left to face every top-10 pass defense that Chicago has faced (Cincy, New Orleans, Pittsburgh) plus 1 other mediocre one (NYG) that is still statistically better than any McCown has yet faced for even half a game. 

 

People actually believe that Trestman has made it his absolute focus to specifically coach up Josh McCown all offseason like a private QB coach, and this is the reason these magic beans have taken root.  Either that or he didn't really until Cutler got injured, and the week or so Trestman spent with McCown (before that first spot-start), while also gameplanning against his opponent, has made more of a difference than the past 10 years of NFL experience combined. Pretty impressive to teach McCown how to read defenses and improve his footwork and throwing motion, and have it all stick in there in such a short span of time.  

 

I have no doubt Trestman is 10x the QB coach that Rex Ryan is, particularly since that's his specific background, but can't believe there are people who actually believe this silly Josh McCown fairy tale.

[Matt39]

No ones believing the Josh Mccown fairytale. What's believable is- he's stepped into an offense with good players and has a coach that knows how to play to his strengths.

 

The belief that all we need to do is draft a QB and everything else gets better by default is the narrative that isnt accurate.

[T0mShane]

No ones believing the Josh Mccown fairytale. What's believable is- he's stepped into an offense with good players and has a coach that knows how to play to his strengths.

The belief that all we need to do is draft a QB and everything else gets better by default is the narrative that isnt accurate.

The best way to help a quarterback is by surrounding him with defensive linemen and expensive corners.

[Matt39]

The best way to help a quarterback is by surrounding him with defensive linemen and expensive corners.

 

I'm all for finding a QB. Nothing would make me happier than watching the Jets pass the ball down the field on Sunday's. The notion that it's just a stroke of luck and elite QB's are born to be elite QB's is so absurd...and somehow believable here at JN...I have to remind myself that no one else that discusses football thinks like this.

[T0mShane]

I'm all for finding a QB. Nothing would make me happier than watching the Jets pass the ball down the field on Sunday's. The notion that it's just a stroke of luck and elite QB's are born to be elite QB's is so absurd...and somehow believable here at JN...I have to remind myself that no one else that discusses football thinks like this.

Good quarterback play is the result of an organization-wide focus on finding, developing, and supplementing that one position. This idea that you luck into Russell Wilson and--boom--you've hit the lottery is absurd.

[Matt39]

Good quarterback play is the result of an organization-wide focus on finding, developing, and supplementing that one position. This idea that you luck into Russell Wilson and--boom--you've hit the lottery is absurd.

 

Agreed. Peyton Manning is the only one I could see this not being the case. The self motivation to that extent isnt common. Wilson I think could be the next closest though.

 

But Russell Wilson and Tony Sporano last year? Come on. You wont see the Packers bringing in Tim Tebow anytime soon.

[#27TheDominator]

Relax cujo:

 

This is what Rex ended with:

 

"He was the guy they all wanted, but honestly, when it came down to it, a wideout? Not my dream pick. "

 

So?  What the **** is your point?  He was joking. People want to blame him for taking Hill over Jeffery and it is a ******* joke.  He also said that he would claim him now - that is just talk, but that is as close to panning a pick as you will ever see from people that still work together. 

[CTM]

I'm all for finding a QB. Nothing would make me happier than watching the Jets pass the ball down the field on Sunday's. The notion that it's just a stroke of luck and elite QB's are born to be elite QB's is so absurd...and somehow believable here at JN...I have to remind myself that no one else that discusses football thinks like this.

 

 

Many people think like that. The top guys are going to be good almost no matter what, the terrible ones are likely going to be terrible no matter what..  it's the middling guys who sometimes have very good years and other times have bad years whose fate is most determined by coaching and weaponnzzz

[CTM]

So?  What the **** is your point?  He was joking. People want to blame him for taking Hill over Jeffery and it is a ******* joke.  He also said that he would claim him now - that is just talk, but that is as close to panning a pick as you will ever see from people that still work together. 

 

I don't think he was joking and I'm still not sure why you are so angry

[Matt39]

So?  What the **** is your point?  He was joking. People want to blame him for taking Hill over Jeffery and it is a ******* joke.  He also said that he would claim him now - that is just talk, but that is as close to panning a pick as you will ever see from people that still work together. 

 

Who's solely blaming Rex? I think the theme here is the organization hasnt valued offense as much as defense....and they arent nearly as strong scouting offensive players as they are defense. Is this a product of Rex's influence? I think outright denying it would be naive. 

[Matt39]

Many people think like that. The top guys are going to be good almost no matter what, the terrible ones are likely going to be terrible no matter what..  it's the middling guys who sometimes have very good years and other times have bad years whose fate is most determined by coaching and weaponnzzz

For reference:

 

ESPN Stats & Info ‏@ESPNStatsInfo9 Dec

Since 2010, Tom Brady has 78.5 QBR with Gronk on the field through Week 13 of 2013. Brady has 59.0 QBR with Gronk off the field in that span

[T0mShane]

Agreed. Peyton Manning is the only one I could see this not being the case. The self motivation to that extent isnt common. Wilson I think could be the next closest though.

But Russell Wilson and Tony Sporano last year? Come on. You wont see the Packers bringing in Tim Tebow anytime soon.

Even with Manning, he was awful his rookie year and went on to only win one ring. If the belief is that landing The Great QB subsidized 70%-80% of a football team, the guy who many think is the GOAT would have more rings.

[CTM]

For reference:

 

ESPN Stats & Info ‏@ESPNStatsInfo9 Dec

Since 2010, Tom Brady has 78.5 QBR with Gronk on the field through Week 13 of 2013. Brady has 59.0 QBR with Gronk off the field in that span

 

 

Yes, a handful of games against undefined defenses proves your point... 

[CTM]

Even with Manning, he was awful his rookie year and went on to only win one ring. If the belief is that landing The Great QB subsidized 70%-80% of a football team, the guy who many think is the GOAT would have more rings.

 

 

No.. it makes you competitive every year. As evidence by how many times the Colts have been in the playoffs. Have to be on the bus!

[Matt39]

Yes, a handful of games against undefined defenses proves your point... 

 

I can use the Moss/Welker year as reference too if you'd prefer.

 

Or the fact Andrew Luck hadnt completed a pass over 20 yards since this weekend after Wayne got hurt.

[Matt39]

No.. it makes you competitive every year. As evidence by how many times the Colts have been in the playoffs. Have to be on the bus!

 

Peyton's also had an all star team surrounding him for the most part of his career. But like I said earlier, Peyton's level of motivation isnt common. 

[CTM]

I can use the Moss/Welker year as reference too if you'd prefer.

 

Or the fact Andrew Luck hadnt completed a pass over 20 yards since this weekend after Wayne got hurt.

 

 

Or you could make the point that Brady's non Gronk QBR of 59 would still quality for top 1/3 in the league and that you don't really have a point after all?

 

The point that freaks at WR and TE improve a QB's numbers wouldn't be challenged by anyone sane.

[Sperm Edwards]

Matt, my answer is yes: we need to acquire a top QB.  Or one capable of playing like a top QB for a stretch, while at least being average the rest of the time (like Eli or Flacco).  

 

Every top QB in the league wasn't going to turn into Mark Sanchez if only they had the grave misfortune of being drafted by the Jets.  Sanchez was going to suck no matter what team he ended up with.  Geno Smith was likely going to be a sucky rookie no matter who drafted him.  I wouldn't bet the whole 2014 season on Geno after the season he's had, but let's see how he looks next year with a whole offseason doing nothing but working out with David Lee like Romo did.  

 

I don't need him to work out with the HC all offseason instead of the QBC that the HC has hired.  

 

Like anyone believes it's John Harbaugh that developed Joe Flacco & worked with him on his throwing mechanics and footwork and spent all sorts of hours 1-on-1 with him to teach him how to break down a defense.  Or that Chuck Pagano is the reason Andrew Luck is a star QB.  Or that Mike Smith (also a former DC and DL coach) has much of anything to do with Matt Ryan's success since being drafted.

 

How come Pete Carroll - the mastermind behind the development of Russell Wilson - couldn't "develop" Matt Flynn? Or Tavaris Jackson?  Or that Matt Hasselbeck's development got worse with Carroll as his HC then got better again the year after he left Carroll & Seattle? Or how come Drew Bledsoe's string of consecutive pro bowl appearances came to a screeching halt as soon as Carroll became his HC?  Why it's so unbelievable that Russell Wilson is the best QB he's had his hands on in years (if not ever), and Wilson fell into his lap.  And if he had any actual clue Wilson was half as good as he is, he'd have never risked him not being there in round 3 (where he was expected to be drafted anyway, not even considering that on draft day QBs are often drafted ahead of their actual ranking).  The reality is he didn't know jack.  He thought Matt Flynn was the answer to his problems & prayers when he took a look at the upcoming 2012 draft, and paid handsomely to get Flynn in Seattle.  Carroll got lucky.  Well bully for him.  And the funny thing is, much of his "development" was to let him just hand off to Marshawn Lynch, using a conservative gameplan to match with a highly-ranked defense, just like Rex/Schottenheimer did with Sanchez.  Fact is Wilson is just much more talented than Sanchez, even if most scouts couldn't see past his 5'11 stature.

 

With Ryan here, the Jets have seen fit to bring in exactly two QBs to work with.  Until this season, that number was one, and he was a dopey frat boy who couldn't absorb the simplest of instructions (like not staring down his target and holding onto the football) year after year after year.  The 2nd one, Geno, everyone knows wasn't ready to start and even you'll admit he doesn't have a lot to work with and help bail him out of one of his many bad throws.

[CTM]

Peyton's also had an all star team surrounding him for the most part of his career. But like I said earlier, Peyton's level of motivation isnt common. 

 

 

Most of the greats have it imo..

 

Brady , Rodgers, Brees.. would be good anywhere

[#27TheDominator]

I don't think he was joking and I'm still not sure why you are so angry

 

First of all, I am always pretty angry.  Second, why do you think I am angry?  I always use profanity.  It's not big deal.

 

Who's solely blaming Rex? I think the theme here is the organization hasnt valued offense as much as defense....and they arent nearly as strong scouting offensive players as they are defense. Is this a product of Rex's influence? I think outright denying it would be naive. 

 

Read the post I initially responded to.  Not the bullsh*t back and forth with CTM.  The initial post.  That is exactly what he said.  Yes, I responded to a troll, so ******* what?  It is also why I don't understand CTM's point.  Yes, Rex probably would prefer to draft D, but thinking he had anything to do with the Hill pick is silly.

[Matt39]

 

 

Or you could make the point that Brady's non Gronk QBR of 59 would still quality for top 1/3 in the league and that you don't really have a point after all?

 

The point that freaks at WR and TE improve a QB's numbers wouldn't be challenged by anyone sane.

 

 

Matt Cassell's 2008 season was statistically on par with Brady seasons pre Moss.

 

Point is- landing a Tom Brady isn't realistic.  Surrounding a non Tom Brady QB with good players and coaches around him, is. The defending champs were successful doing this.

[CTM]

First of all, I am always pretty angry.  Second, why do you think I am angry?  I always use profanity.  It's not big deal.

 

 

Read the post I initially responded to.  Not the bullsh*t back and forth with CTM.  The initial post.  That is exactly what he said.  Yes, I responded to a troll, so ******* what?  It is also why I don't understand CTM's point.  Yes, Rex probably would prefer to draft D, but thinking he had anything to do with the Hill pick is silly.

 

 

Well, I think that if it was up to Rex, the only offense we'd draft is to support three yards and a cloud of dust football... Not that he specifically demanded hill over Jeffrey.. I view that as the Jets once again out smarting themselves.

[CTM]

Matt Cassell's 2008 season was statistically on par with Brady seasons pre Moss.

 

Point is- landing a Tom Brady isn't realistic.  Surrounding a non Tom Brady QB with good players and coaches around him, is. The defending champs were successful doing this.

 

incorrect.

 

Matt Cassel had a 1.1% DVOA in 2008, Brady was 31.6 in 2004, 28.6 in 2005 and 17 in 2006...

 

The afc east played a ridiculously easy schedule in 2008

[Matt39]

Most of the greats have it imo..

 

Brady , Rodgers, Brees.. would be good anywhere

 

Good? Definitely....but these guys don't rotate Super Bowl's every year either. Put Brees in a dome and a wide open offense that rotates players in and out like line changes in hockey changed his career/legacy though.

[Matt39]

incorrect.

 

Matt Cassel had a 1.1% DVOA in 2008, Brady was 31.6 in 2004, 28.6 in 2005 and 17 in 2006...

 

The afc east played a ridiculously easy schedule in 2008

 

Pennington was 5th in DVOA that season fwiw.

[CTM]

Pennington was 5th in DVOA that season fwiw.

 

 

Yes, she was the darling of DVOA

[CTM]

Good? Definitely....but these guys don't rotate Super Bowl's every year either. Put Brees in a dome and a wide open offense that rotates players in and out like line changes in hockey changed his career/legacy though.

 

 

Yes, and Manning was only this good cause he was in a dome... oh wait

[#27TheDominator]

Well, I think that if it was up to Rex, the only offense we'd draft is to support three yards and a cloud of dust football... Not that he specifically demanded hill over Jeffrey.. I view that as the Jets once again out smarting themselves.

 

I think they wanted a weapnz and had a do not touch tag on Jeffery.  Other teams probably do also, at least for certain rounds.  Arguing that Rex doesn't want to draft offense is one thing, blaming him for scouting Hill quite another.  I also think that HIll fit what they thought Sparano was going to try and do - run and try a few heaves.  Sparano and Sanchez proved more incompetent than expected and Hill more raw.

[Matt39]

Yes, she was the darling of DVOA

 

Best case scenario is an elite QB throwing to elite WR's. Duh.

 

But with the Jets, chances of that are slim to none. Crossing are fingers for Aaron Rodgers to walk through that door isn't as realistic as maybe Geno being Andy Dalton who can get hot and cold and putting good pieces around him.

[Matt39]

Yes, and Manning was only this good cause he was in a dome... oh wait

 

Manning >>>> Brees. By a lot.

 

There isnt anyone on the planet that can read a defense like Manning can. He out thinks himself in the playoffs imo...but you get at least halfway decent players that can get yards after the catch and Manning will put up points.

[Sperm Edwards]

Matt Cassell's 2008 season was statistically on par with Brady seasons pre Moss.

 

Point is- landing a Tom Brady isn't realistic.  Surrounding a non Tom Brady QB with good players and coaches around him, is. The defending champs were successful doing this.

 

Flacco isn't in the Brady/Rodgers/Manning/Brees stratosphere, but I think there is noticeable separation between Flacco and Sanchez.  You may not agree.  

The players they've surrounded him with were good but nothing spectacular (Boldin, Torrey, Pitta).  None of them are elite targets.  But Flacco was good at not throwing the ball to the other team (10 interceptions in 20 games).  He got super-hot at just the right time, playing better than he ever did before.  Enough to overcome far worse point-surrendering collapses than the Jets D and specials did in their two SB runs.  I give Flacco credit for playing way better than he generally is.  Sometimes guys get hot in weeks 5-8.  He got hot in the playoffs.  Had he not, they never would have gotten past Denver and the following week would have been a Manning-Brady showdown instead.  That long pass to Jones(?) to put that game away never would have happened with most QBs because they don't have the arm to get it there.  Even Flacco, with that cannon of his, didn't really hit him in stride.

[CTM]

Best case scenario is an elite QB throwing to elite WR's. Duh.

 

But with the Jets, chances of that are slim to none. Crossing are fingers for Aaron Rodgers to walk through that door isn't as realistic as maybe Geno being Andy Dalton who can get hot and cold and putting good pieces around him.

 

 

Meh, i think him and Sanchez are just in the bad category.. We need a new guy

[sourceworx]

The best way to help a quarterback is by surrounding him with defensive linemen and expensive corners.

Actually it's with a strong running game, and a good defense.

Idzik felt that meant signing a drunk thug who found his way to IR (and pretty soon prison), and drafting an unathletic guard from the MAC Conference, who gets bulldozed every week.

Rex drafted a guy who might be Defensive Rookie of the Year.

Fire Rex.

[pedro55]

Flacco isn't in the Brady/Rodgers/Manning/Brees stratosphere, but I think there is noticeable separation between Flacco and Sanchez.  You may not agree.  

The players they've surrounded him with were good but nothing spectacular (Boldin, Torrey, Pitta).  None of them are elite targets.  But Flacco was good at not throwing the ball to the other team (10 interceptions in 20 games).  He got super-hot at just the right time, playing better than he ever did before.  Enough to overcome far worse point-surrendering collapses than the Jets D and specials did in their two SB runs.  I give Flacco credit for playing way better than he generally is.  Sometimes guys get hot in weeks 5-8.  He got hot in the playoffs.  Had he not, they never would have gotten past Denver and the following week would have been a Manning-Brady showdown instead.  That long pass to Jones(?) to put that game away never would have happened with most QBs because they don't have the arm to get it there.  Even Flacco, with that cannon of his, didn't really hit him in stride.

 

  Flacco was Montana like in the Playoffs last year.   The year before that he was the best QB in that playoff as well.   He's kind of been that QB for years. He isn't a HOF great QB during the regular season, but come playoffs, the guy is almost Montana like for some reason.    You could say Manning is the exact opposite. He isn't all that good come playoff time most years.    

 

 But Flacco has been an ok QB.  This year is probably his worse, but he's normally a 20 TD and 10 INT kind of QB who completes around 60 percent of his passes. And this is what, his 6th year in the NFL and he's made the playoffs 5 years in a row, 3 AFC Championships, 1 super bowl MVP, and so on.   The difference between Harbaugh, Ozzie, & Flacco has been they built a team and replaced players whereas the Jets continued to get worse and went from surprise playoff winner to a team who should feel proud if they were to finish with 7 wins this year.