Status of Jets 16 UFA's

[joewillie78]

Parcells did a multitude of dumb things. Handling the placekicking horribly was one of them.

Must be easy to get in the HOF, right?

[#27TheDominator]

There's a very good reason why they don't tag Austin: because it would be completely idiotic.

Only the Jets?

What on earth are you even talking about? Anyone who thinks the Jets should franchise tag Howard should be thankful the Jets have a smarter GM than that. Hell, even Tannenbaum on his most absent-minded day wouldn't make such a foolish move.

But carry on finding fault with the team for not making a totally retarded move and thinking such a comment is clever.

 

C'mon.  The guy simply is not worth $7M! Only the Jets wouldn't use this golden opportunity to sign him for $10M!

[Sperm Edwards]

By the attitude presented in your post, I assume you'll be OK with Howard walking away. 

 

No, by the attitude presented in my post it is obvious some people are just throwing terms around like franchise tag without knowing what it means.

 

Tagging Austin Howard will buy us one more year of him at $11.6M.  That will be about $5M more than the next-highest RT in the NFL makes, and fully double the $5-6M/year Idzik's (allegedly) trying to ink.

 

 

Tell me again how much smarter it would have been to tag Austin Howard, and how stupid it was to tag our 91% FG kicker instead.

[Sperm Edwards]

C'mon.  The guy simply is not worth $7M! Only the Jets wouldn't use this golden opportunity to sign him for $10M!

 

$10M? I thought I read it was $11.6M for all offensive linemen. Only the Jets!

[Sperm Edwards]

Must be easy to get in the HOF, right?

 

Parcells was an above-average head coach.  But as Bleedin alluded to, if Norwood didn't miss that FG to end the superbowl then Parcells wouldn't be in the HOF.  

[joewillie78]

Parcells was an above-average head coach.  But as Bleedin alluded to, if Norwood didn't miss that FG to end the superbowl then Parcells wouldn't be in the HOF.  

Beating and competing with teams that were clearly superior to your team was Parcells specialty. That Buffalo team was clearly better than those Giants, but as usual, his coaching genious kept the Giants in the game with a chance to win. The fact that he missed or made that FG, in no way takes away the incredible job he did coaching up that team.

 

But for some on this list that already think REX is a HOF, that doesn't seem to impress anyone , as their bar is so low, its just about laying on the ground, right?

[Bleedin Green]

Oh good, because mindlessly whining about franchising Folk in one thread wasn't enough?  As has been mentioned above, the franchise tag amount for Howard would have been insane.  The tag amount is calculated together for all offensive linemen, which essentially means Howard's tag amount would have been the average of the top-5 LTs.  That's nuts, it would be far worse than what he's even asking for and ultimately would take up about 1/4 of this money we're all so excited for the Jets are going to have available.  The Jets simply weren't going to do that.

 

Using it on Folk, on the other hand, gave them a contract for him which was actually less than the contracts getting signed by every other kicker this offseason, without the long term commitment.

[Sperm Edwards]

Beating and competing with teams that were clearly superior to your team was Parcells specialty. That Buffalo team was clearly better than those Giants, but as usual, his coaching genious kept the Giants in the game with a chance to win. The fact that he missed or made that FG, in no way takes away the incredible job he did coaching up that team.

 

But for some on this list that already think REX is a HOF, that doesn't seem to impress anyone , as their bar is so low, its just about laying on the ground, right?

 

Name one poster who seriously thinks that and has said so.

 

"Look at me everybody! I can argue against an opinion absolutely no one has!! Weeeeeeeeee!!!"

 

And again, if Norwood missed that kick Parcells would not be in the HOF. 

[joewillie78]

Name one poster who seriously thinks that and has said so.

 

"Look at me everybody! I can argue against an opinion absolutely no one has!! Weeeeeeeeee!!!"

 

And again, if Norwood missed that kick Parcells would not be in the HOF. 

You don't think 1 SB title and all his other successes would not have gotten him in? That he needed those 2 titles to get in?

 

I'm not disagreeing completely mind you, I just think that 1 SB title plus the rest of his resume may have been enough. The fact that he had 2 made it a slam dunk.

[#27TheDominator]

$10M? I thought I read it was $11.6M for all offensive linemen. Only the Jets!

 

I was estimating based on last years number.  

 

FWIW, Belichick won that Super Bowl, not Tuna.

[Sperm Edwards]

You don't think 1 SB title and all his other successes would not have gotten him in? That he needed those 2 titles to get in?

 

I'm not disagreeing completely mind you, I just think that 1 SB title plus the rest of his resume may have been enough. The fact that he had 2 made it a slam dunk.

 

No.

 

1 SB ring with all his underlings and then without him those underlings win a half dozen without him while he wins nothing without them? No I don't think he'd have gotten in.

 

He was a very good HC, but he was no genius. Handling the kicker situation was something he handled horribly when he was here, so who gives a crap what he thinks or what he did with Hall (Mr. Huggies) on the team bus? 

[Sperm Edwards]

I was estimating based on last years number.  

 

FWIW, Belichick won that Super Bowl, not Tuna.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000330088/article/nfl-releases-2014-franchise-transition-tag-numbers

 

Offensive lineman: $11.654 million  

[joewillie78]

No.

 

1 SB ring with all his underlings and then without him those underlings win a half dozen without him while he wins nothing without them? No I don't think he'd have gotten in.

 

He was a very good HC, but he was no genius. Handling the kicker situation was something he handled horribly when he was here, so who gives a crap what he thinks or what he did with Hall (Mr. Huggies) on the team bus? 

Good points about Belichick, Peyton, and Coughlin, but he must have taught those dudes something with their success.

 

I completely forgot it was John Hall and the team bus incident. Thanks for the memories.

 

By the way, I still think he gets in with 1 ring.

[Sperm Edwards]

Good points about Belichick, Peyton, and Coughlin, but he must have taught those dudes something with their success.

 

I completely forgot it was John Hall and the team bus incident. Thanks for the memories.

 

By the way, I still think he gets in with 1 ring.

 

You also think Coors Light is beer. Just keeping things in perspective.

[joewillie78]

You also think Coors Light is beer. Just keeping things in perspective.

Not only that but I think its good beer.

[Cmartin]

8. Austin Howard

2013 Grade: -1.0

2013 Snaps: 1,071

The Jets have reportedly initiated contract talks with Austin Howard with the goal of re-signing him before free agency opens up. If he makes it to the market, Howard will be an interesting player for teams to consider. He’s relatively young and doesn’t have much wear on the tires as an undrafted free agent from Northern Iowa. He joined the Jets in 2012, acquired via the Ravens’ practice squad, and has hardly missed a snap in two years starting at right tackle in New York.

Terribly inconsistent in 2013, Howard’s Jets debut in 2012 featured a lot of very good run blocking (+9.6) mixed in with below average pass blocking (-5.1). He gave up 10 sacks and 41 more pressures in his first season as a full-time starter. In 2013, he improved his pass blocking and only gave up two sacks to go with 36 pressures, finishing with a +1.9 pass blocking grade, but his run blocking made it into the green just three times, against six in the red. He has been fairly strong in the penalty category, and may have some upside left with only two seasons of starting under his belt, but his performance isn’t up to snuff with those ahead of him on this list.

 

11.3 Million tag price for this production???? No thanks

[#27TheDominator]

11.3 Million tag price for this production???? No thanks

 

Cimini was saying Vollmer money.  That was $17M/4 $8.5 guaranteed. Seems fair enough to me.  This $11M talk stemmed from somebody's silly idea to tag Howard.  That ship has sailed and nobody that thought about it thought it was a good idea. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Cimini was saying Vollmer money.  That was $17M/4 $8.5 guaranteed. Seems fair enough to me.  This $11M talk stemmed from somebody's silly idea to tag Howard.  That ship has sailed and nobody that thought about it thought it was a good idea. 

 

Well he's allegedly thumbing his nose at $5-6M/year and wants $7M.  Ridiculous.  

 

He's fine; he's not awesome.

[bitonti]

Well he's allegedly thumbing his nose at $5-6M/year and wants $7M.  Ridiculous.  

 

He's fine; he's not awesome.

 

the problem with letting go of Austin Howard is replacing him. Last year the Eagles and Chiefs used top 5 picks on players they have no intention of moving to left tackle. If the Jets want to replace Austin Howard, it will take a high pick. Is it worth spending 18 on Zack Martin to save a little money? When they have so many other needs? it's the opportunity cost that's high. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

the problem with letting go of Austin Howard is replacing him. Last year the Eagles and Chiefs used top 5 picks on players they have no intention of moving to left tackle. If the Jets want to replace Austin Howard, it will take a high pick. Is it worth spending 18 on Zack Martin to save a little money? When they have so many other needs? it's the opportunity cost that's high. 

 

 

 

Just so long as Martin makes his second contract. That's the only way I'll know if it was worth it.

[Sperm Edwards]

the problem with letting go of Austin Howard is replacing him. Last year the Eagles and Chiefs used top 5 picks on players they have no intention of moving to left tackle. If the Jets want to replace Austin Howard, it will take a high pick. Is it worth spending 18 on Zack Martin to save a little money? When they have so many other needs? it's the opportunity cost that's high. 

 

I agree with none of this.

 

So the Jets got Austin Howard for nothing, but the only way to replace him is to use the #18 pick in the country.

 

Do you actually believe any of this? That the Jets have 2 choices and only 2 choices. One is to make Austin Howard the most expensive RT in NFL history, and option 2 is to use our #1 draft pick on a RT.  Those are the only 2 options the Jets have?

 

 

Howard is a $4M right tackle IMO.  I'm ok with them overpaying a little bit because we have the space, I think there's some value in continuity, they don't need yet another hole, and at his age/experience he still has more potential upside.  So if we overpay him by a million, no big deal. I can see the value to the Jets.  Overpay by $2M I'm not that thrilled with the signing.  Overpaying by $3M per year on a long-term deal is just stupid.  

[bitonti]

I agree with none of this.

 

So the Jets got Austin Howard for nothing, but the only way to replace him is to use the #18 pick in the country.

 

Do you actually believe any of this? That the Jets have 2 choices and only 2 choices. One is to make Austin Howard the most expensive RT in NFL history, and option 2 is to use our #1 draft pick on a RT.  Those are the only 2 options the Jets have?

 

 

Howard is a $4M right tackle IMO.  I'm ok with them overpaying a little bit because we have the space, I think there's some value in continuity, they don't need yet another hole, and at his age/experience he still has more potential upside.  So if we overpay him by a million, no big deal. I can see the value to the Jets.  Overpay by $2M I'm not that thrilled with the signing.  Overpaying by $3M per year on a long-term deal is just stupid.  

 

 

Howard got the luxury of sitting a year behind Woody before being put into the lineup. Unless Oday Aboushi is 2011 Howard they don't have a replacement on the roster. Which means using a draft pick. If you want that draft pick to start as a rookie it's usually a first round pick. 

 

As for the price of 4M you are underrating the value of this player and the market. Howard is at least as good as Vollmer. And he's 27. The days when RTs were cheap are over. Michael Oher who from all accounts is worse than Howard, is going to command more than 4 mil per year. They could go with a Tyson Clabo type for 3 mil ish but that player is old and a stop gap. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Howard got the luxury of sitting a year behind Woody before being put into the lineup. Unless Oday Aboushi is 2011 Howard they don't have a replacement on the roster. Which means using a draft pick. If you want that draft pick to start as a rookie it's usually a first round pick. 

 

As for the price of 4M you are underrating the value of this player and the market. Howard is at least as good as Vollmer. And he's 27. The days when RTs were cheap are over. Michael Oher who from all accounts is worse than Howard, is going to command more than 4 mil per year. They could go with a Tyson Clabo type for 3 mil ish but that player is old and a stop gap. 

 

Where do you get this information from? Do you just make things up out of thin air and then make arguments based on these imaginary scenarios? Howard was not even on the team when we had Woody.

 

I don't know why I bother.  You overrate everybody's value and argue as though you think every player should get paid $10M per season.  Except for the sucky ones and backups. They should make $3M per season.

 

Having cap space is a luxury and it means we have a lot of flexibility to improve the team. You treat it like it's a game of hot potato where we have to get rid of it as fast as we can.

 

Howard is fine, not awesome.

[bitonti]

Where do you get this information from? Do you just make things up out of thin air and then make arguments based on these imaginary scenarios? Howard was not even on the team when we had Woody.

 

I don't know why I bother.  You overrate everybody's value and argue as though you think every player should get paid $10M per season.  Except for the sucky ones and backups. They should make $3M per season.

 

Having cap space is a luxury and it means we have a lot of flexibility to improve the team. You treat it like it's a game of hot potato where we have to get rid of it as fast as we can.

 

Howard is fine, not awesome.

 

we can quibble all day about what Howard is worth. He thinks he's worth 7m per, the Jets think 5 mil and you think 4 mil. Fine. 

 

Replacing this player is not as easy as going to the 4 mil per year tackle store and picking one up.

 

last year the Jets tried to replace 2 guards slauson and moore. they signed 2 FA (colon and peterman) and drafted 3 potential guards in Winters, Aboushi and Campbell. They also had Vlad laying around.

 

that's 6 guys to replace 2 starters. and arguably they only really got 1 starter out of the deal. Despite Winters good MIA game in week 17, he was playing at below starter level all year. Lets say he turns into a good player for the sake of argument, he wasn't a good player for most of last year. they didn't sign 1 good guard they threw bodies at the problem. Willie Colon was the only player worth a damn and he blew out his bicep in week 17. 

 

I don't want to see the Jets bring in Clabo and have him go against Aboushi and a draft pick to replace howard. It's probably not gonna work and they have too many other holes to create new ones. They need a starting OG, WR, TE, OLB, CB, S already. Adding RT to that list is not helping matters.

[BroadwayJoe12]

we can quibble all day about what Howard is worth. He thinks he's worth 7m per, the Jets think 5 mil and you think 4 mil. Fine. 

 

Replacing this player is not as easy as going to the 4 mil per year tackle store and picking one up.

 

 

For future reference, is this the same store that has the possession-burner tree? Because if they're all just sitting in one place, we might as well grab one of both.

[Sperm Edwards]

we can quibble all day about what Howard is worth. He thinks he's worth 7m per, the Jets think 5 mil and you think 4 mil. Fine. 

 

Replacing this player is not as easy as going to the 4 mil per year tackle store and picking one up.

 

last year the Jets tried to replace 2 guards slauson and moore. they signed 2 FA (colon and peterman) and drafted 3 potential guards in Winters, Aboushi and Campbell. They also had Vlad laying around.

 

that's 6 guys to replace 2 starters. and arguably they only really got 1 starter out of the deal. Despite Winters good MIA game in week 17, he was playing at below starter level all year. Lets say he turns into a good player for the sake of argument, he wasn't a good player for most of last year. they didn't sign 1 good guard they threw bodies at the problem. Willie Colon was the only player worth a damn and he blew out his bicep in week 17. 

 

I don't want to see the Jets bring in Clabo and have him go against Aboushi and a draft pick to replace howard. It's probably not gonna work and they have too many other holes to create new ones. They need a starting OG, WR, TE, OLB, CB, S already. Adding RT to that list is not helping matters.

 

Yeah, replacing a guard with one worth what he's getting in the $4-7M range isn't he same as flinging mud against the wall for an immediate starter among Ducasse, 3 rookies, and a castoff from Detroit.

 

Also I disagree as to their motivation in the draft that you claim.  I don't think they drafted those guys specifically to take the place of Slauson/Moore.  I think they took Winters to be a future guard and the other 2 I think they saw potential but at worst would be depth that we also needed badly. So I don't at all agree that we drafted 3 guys to replace Slauson.  They did sign Colon to take Moore's place, and that was 1-for-1, signing 1 to replace 1 that was let go.  They brought in Peterman for the summer, but he got cut and cost the team zero. So you're counting someone as a "cost" who didn't cost anything. Campbell and Aboushi (or that level player/pick) was needed for depth no matter what.

 

I know you're in love with the idea of blasting all the available space we have, as well as moving up in the draft, on the highest-drafted or highest-paid player we can get at every position, and then bet the season that no starter gets injured; and any deviation from that model is an example of the team being cheapskates plain and simple. Certainly you're entitled to your opinion, but I don't think this position bears any resemblance to reality in what the team is going to do or what they should do.

 

You pay a guy what he's worth.  You can pay a little premium if he's worth more to your team than he's worth on the open market, but it can't be that much higher. Because that philosophy doesn't end with Austin Howard; it becomes indicative of how the GM operates and it permeates all signings. I think the $5.5M (give or take) that the Jets are looking for is in line with the "he's worth less on paper but we have enough holes so another $1M overpaying for a young RT isn't too luxurious of a splurge." $7M for an outside lineman who's below average as a pass blocker is outright idiocy IMO.

 

Vollmer just got 4 years $17M ($4.25M/year with just under 2 years' worth of it, $8.25M, guaranteed, largely in the form of a $7M SB). How that translates to Austin Howard being worth $7M per season every season is beyond me.  

 

He is a middle-of-the-road right tackle (not a middle of the road tackle, a middle of the road RIGHT tackle). That's fine and that means he has value, but he doesn't have top-end value.