Opinion on Mark Helfrich?

[win4ever]

The OC position isn't ideal because it comes with a coach firmly attached to a hot seat, so the best candidates may go somewhere more secure.  However, it's not horrible because the offense does have weapons, young QBs with good arms, and very low expectations.   So going through some possibilities, I would like to hear people's opinions on Mark Helfrich. 

A) He runs a spread system (coming from Oregon) so the transition from Gailey's system isn't drastic for any QB.  This team is set up to take advantage of a spread system much more than a west coast system (or god forbid a ground and pound) because the receivers we have are more size/speed mismatches than guys that will beat you with route running and timing.  Same for our RBs, who operate better in space rather than running through the line.  

B- He just got fired by Oregon (mainly because he's nowhere near the recruiter as Chip Kelly), so his options are somewhat limited.  If he wants to rebuild value as an OC, what better place to do it, than in NY?

C) He first started coaching under Dirk Koetter, who is now the HC in Tampa Bay, who has shown a decent ability to develop a QB in Winston.  

D)  While in college, Helfrich has coaxed great seasons out of Bart Hendricks and Andrew Walter, both of whom amounted to nothing in the NFL.  At Oregon, he had three QBs become studs with Masoli, Thomas, and then of course Mariota.

He's not the perfect guy obviously, but what do people feel about him? He's seems to have a much better relationship with his players and the media than Chip Kelly, but he's not a good recruiter.  He has succeeded everywhere as an OC, and keeps the spread system for the Jets.  His value has diminished enough that he will most likely take a 2 year deal to rebuild his value.  He's considered a good QB coach, and was once a QB himself in college.  

So opinions on him? 

[JoJoTownsell1]

Good idea. He wasn't great at Oregon, but like you said that was a product of recruiting and not an indictment on his offensive mind. Plus if the offense gets better and he develops Petty/Hack, he can replace Bowles if we lose a bunch of games because our defense sucks. 

 

Sign me up. 

[Sarge4Tide]

I'd be okay with it - he doesn't have any NFL experience, so that's always an issue

 

[Stark]

only if he is down the list and we have to really reach.

 

[win4ever]

25 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Good idea. He wasn't great at Oregon, but like you said that was a product of recruiting and not an indictment on his offensive mind. Plus if the offense gets better and he develops Petty/Hack, he can replace Bowles if we lose a bunch of games because our defense sucks. 

 

Sign me up. 

Yeah, he seems like a good option for an OC, down value, has developed QBs, former QB himself, runs a very good system that isn't Air Raid, and seems to get along well with the players unlike Kelly.  My only concern is if Kelly goes back to college, there is a good chance he goes with him to be the OC somewhere.  Even Vernon Adams posted some good stats while he was there, to the point that some people claimed he would be the next Russel Wilson.  

 

20 minutes ago, Sarge4Tide said:

I'd be okay with it - he doesn't have any NFL experience, so that's always an issue

 

Yeah, it's somewhat of a risk but I feel like we need to take a risk to either turn it around or burn it to the ground.  Ideally, yeah I wish he had some NFL experience, but he has done wonders with the QB everywhere he has gone.  

7 minutes ago, Stark said:

only if he is down the list and we have to really reach.

 

How far down the list would you go? 

[Beerfish]

Interesting name to bring up.  Might be a fit.

[Stark]

5 hours ago, win4ever said:

Yeah, he seems like a good option for an OC, down value, has developed QBs, former QB himself, runs a very good system that isn't Air Raid, and seems to get along well with the players unlike Kelly.  My only concern is if Kelly goes back to college, there is a good chance he goes with him to be the OC somewhere.  Even Vernon Adams posted some good stats while he was there, to the point that some people claimed he would be the next Russel Wilson.  

 

Yeah, it's somewhat of a risk but I feel like we need to take a risk to either turn it around or burn it to the ground.  Ideally, yeah I wish he had some NFL experience, but he has done wonders with the QB everywhere he has gone.  

How far down the list would you go? 

Pretty far. Want no part of him 

[win4ever]

2 hours ago, Stark said:

Pretty far. Want no part of him 

Not dismissing your opinion, but may I ask why?

I completely understand he's not the perfect candidate, I just want to know why you you think low of him.  

[FTL Jet Fan]

Not a bad option especially if they want Watson. Which is a long shot but it would be nice to have a guy who can work with our QB's properly.

[Stark]

My answer is mostly based on my opinion and has no expert reasoning.

I am not an expert on his career achievements, but my belief is the Mariota was basically the reason to his success at Oregon & that has to do with Chip Kelly IMO more than Helfrich (Nick Saban's DCoordinator syndrome). I think based on Mariota's play in college and his Football IQ, that Mariota would have been successful with any OC. I think the Chip Kelly system fit Mariota's play style perfectly and because Helfrich was the OC he was the best person to take over for Chip and keep Mariota in that same system. Once Mariota left there was a drop off, which can be expected when a top tier QB leaves (JETS know nothing about this, lol).

This is my fear that we bring in a coach that runs a college spread style of offense but that his style is really more like poor man's chip kelly, why not just sign chip kelly. The fact that he does not have NFL experience is a more than a little concerning for me also.

Sorry this is not a well thought out response (not much sleep last night).

 

There are a quite a few rumors that Tennessee Vols want to talk to Helfrich, and he was in Knoxville the other day.

[Integrity28]

I'd still like to think the NEW YORK team can attract a top NFL candidate - and not buy into the hot seat = table scraps for OC theory just yet.

It's not really hiring season yet - just buzz - the hiring starts when the playoffs are down to 4 teams. Then, lots of the coordinators that crap teams have been waiting on are available to interview more readily. So, I don't think we have to dig so deep for a candidate just yet.

I suspect we've got our eyes on a couple of candidates that are still playing.

[win4ever]

5 hours ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Not a bad option especially if they want Watson. Which is a long shot but it would be nice to have a guy who can work with our QB's properly.

I'm not sure they go for Watson.  I think if they bring in a spread guy, Petty goes in as the favorite.  Spending a high pick on a QB basically buys the coach 3 years, and I'm not sure Bowles has that.  I think if Helfrich (or anyone similar) is hired, it's Petty with Hackenberg as the backup since Petty would be familiar with the spread concepts at Baylor.  I don't think Watson makes it to the Jets to be honest, either the Bears or 49ers will pick him off, after last night.  He will test well at the combine since he's a good athlete, similar to how Mariota may have dropped to us in the Leonard Williams draft at the start of the process, but by the end there wasn't a way he was dropping past 2.  

5 hours ago, Stark said:

My answer is mostly based on my opinion and has no expert reasoning.

I am not an expert on his career achievements, but my belief is the Mariota was basically the reason to his success at Oregon & that has to do with Chip Kelly IMO more than Helfrich (Nick Saban's DCoordinator syndrome). I think based on Mariota's play in college and his Football IQ, that Mariota would have been successful with any OC. I think the Chip Kelly system fit Mariota's play style perfectly and because Helfrich was the OC he was the best person to take over for Chip and keep Mariota in that same system. Once Mariota left there was a drop off, which can be expected when a top tier QB leaves (JETS know nothing about this, lol).

This is my fear that we bring in a coach that runs a college spread style of offense but that his style is really more like poor man's chip kelly, why not just sign chip kelly. The fact that he does not have NFL experience is a more than a little concerning for me also.

Sorry this is not a well thought out response (not much sleep last night).

 

There are a quite a few rumors that Tennessee Vols want to talk to Helfrich, and he was in Knoxville the other day.

I think Mariota is the perfect fit for that type of offense, a guy who has arm accuracy and arm strength, but can wreck a defense if things fall apart.  I remember watching one of Chip Kelly's film breakdowns and he mentioned that when he looks at the line of scrimmage defenders, he counts the QB as one.  So if the QB runs one way, and the RB runs another, just by the QB being mobile he's blocking defenders because they have to respect the QBs ability to run (albeit he was talking about Foles).  So in essence, just by faking a run, the QB was actually blocking because he's taking players out of position.  So a QB like Mariota who runs a legit 4.4 (40 yard dash) becomes deadly in that offense because it spreads the defense out.  So I think the system was perfect for Mariota, but he's done well with others as well (albeit nowhere near Mariota good).  From what I remember, Walter wasn't much of a runner, and he did really well under Helfrich.  

I know Lamar Jackson is now receiving a bunch of backlash about how he won't be a NFL QB, but I guarantee you that if he goes to a spread system with an up-tempo offense, he'll be a very good QB.  He's not going to thrive in West Coast or any precision passing league.  But him one on one with a LB is a mismatch, which will cause teams to bring their defense up, and he just has to be a decent passer and I think he'll be good.  Unless he makes strides in his passing accuracy, I don't think he'll be a star but he really reminds me of Atlanta Vick.   

Yeah, I have no basis for him coming here really, I was just thinking about possible names that could fit and he seemed like a decent fit in terms of availability and schematic fit.  I'm pretty sure he isn't even on the Jets radar, lol.  

 

4 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

I'd still like to think the NEW YORK team can attract a top NFL candidate - and not buy into the hot seat = table scraps for OC theory just yet.

It's not really hiring season yet - just buzz - the hiring starts when the playoffs are down to 4 teams. Then, lots of the coordinators that crap teams have been waiting on are available to interview more readily. So, I don't think we have to dig so deep for a candidate just yet.

I suspect we've got our eyes on a couple of candidates that are still playing.

I'm a bit skeptical, because I have absolutely no faith in Bowles.  He's honestly shown no qualities of being a HC, so I'm not sure he is on the team next year.  I was somewhat surprised he wasn't fired this year.  From team management to game management, he's been a failure across the board.  Now he could get better, but I'm not counting on it.  I'm assuming these coaches are seeing the same thing too, so I'm not sure they want to hitch their wagons to this guy.  From a coaches perspective, you would have to uproot your family to NY, develop young QBs, and then a good chance the head coach is fired, which would mean you are most likely gone as well.  Then you are at the mercy of the new coach, who may or may not want you, and you have to move again.   

I don't think the situation is toxic that people are backing out, but I think given a choice they would much rather go somewhere else.  It's similar to our GM search, when the mandate was that they had to keep Rex, and I believe Caldwell and someone else backed out.  

I hope they find someone good, someone that can actually develop a QB.