Secondary Aptitude Test- Failure – Week 1 (Bengals)

[JetNation]

So after viewing the good defensive plays from Week 1, let’s look at the bad plays.  The Jets secondary was in shambles all year, and opposing teams repeatedly put up strong numbers against them.  They had quite possibly one of the worst secondaries in the league, and major communication issues.

Failure:

1)

2nd & 9

This is essentially pitch and catch for the Bengals.  This defensive alignment shows a major lack of communication and understanding among the players.  When the receiver to the left of the formation goes in motion, both Revis and Marcus Gilchrist take steps backwards.  It should only be one of them, because the only reason Revis should be moving back is to protect the deep route.  Instead, Gilchrist takes himself right out of the play, and Revis allows an easy completion to an elite receiver.  If Gilchrist is moving deeper on the field, Revis has to stay on press man coverage since Gilchrist is his safety net over the top.

2)

1st & 10

A unique formation, which game pass later identifies as a “Barnyard Formation”, and the Jets are completely caught off-guard.  The read for Dalton on this play is very easy, as he looks to his right and sees three players on offense with two defenders.  There is no one else nearby to stop this play, so if they can just get decent blocking, this is going for big yards.  The Jets show a clear lack of defensive acumen here by leaving someone as dangerous as AJ Green without a defender, and it comes back to bite them for a first down.  This formation and play will come up later in this article, with very similar results.

3)

2nd & 3

 Here is a prime example of why the Jets need better secondary players, especially at safety.  First, notice Marcus Williams going backwards, as Calvin Pryor moves forward.  This was the counter movement we didn’t see in example 1 with the Jets.  However, Pryor moves far too much up the field, leaving him trailing on this play.  The play is busted partially because of this, since Williams now can’t switch to the TE running down the middle fast enough.  Darron Lee does an OK job trying to stay with the TE, but it’s a very good throw by Dalton, which is then followed by a horrible job by Lee to tackle the runner.  If Pryor isn’t as far up the field at the start of this play, there is a chance that Williams makes the move towards the center of the field faster.  Notice Revis on the other side of the field in press man coverage, holding his own against AJ Green.

4)

3rd & 7

For all the interceptions by Marcus Williams, there are too many plays such as these.  In a crucial third down situation, the secondary has major miscommunication issues.  Brandon LaFell moves prior to the snap, which completely throws off the defense.  Calvin Pryor vacates the middle of the field for a blitz and Marcus Williams is left all alone.  If the call is for a safety blitz, then Williams has to follow LaFell through the movement, because as it plays out, it seems like the Jets have man coverage called.  There is no reason for Williams to stay back in this case and leave LaFell open to run through the middle of the field.  Notice Revis on man coverage, and how AJ Green doesn’t have an easy reception available to him.

5)

1st & 10

 Late movement, bad adjustment once more for the defense.  This is a horrible play all around for the Jets.  First, in a single high safety look with no immediate help, where is Marcus Williams moving to with the movement?  He gives inside leverage, as if he’s expecting safety help in the intermediate area.  Second, Revis is slow to react to the movement and watches AJ Green fly right by him.  This is a prime example of Revis being a bad zone CB because he’s not quick in his reactions.  He wins his match ups by being knowledgeable about routes in man coverage and mimicking them, but doesn’t do a good job to reacting for plays in zone coverage or off coverage.  The only reason Revis is even close to the ball on this play is because Dalton hangs the ball in the air for too long.  The safety on this play, Gilchrist is caught in no man’s land and makes himself promptly useless by covering absolutely no one.  He sees an open receiver streaking in front of him, while an open receiver streaks right by him and decides to play it safe and stand in the middle.  This is a disaster of a play with Dalton having multiple options of wide open receivers down the field.

6)

1st & 10

 Marcus Williams gets burned again on this play.  Another easy pitch and catch situation where the Jets decide to give up easy yards.  On this play, Calvin Pryor moves up the field, as Williams moves backwards, but Pryor is too far inside to have an impact on the play.   Williams is backing up because he no longer has intermediate help from Pryor so he has to concede the short pass to protect against the deep pass, but a veteran QB can dissect this game plan all day long.  Pryor has to stay neutral on this play, because by moving up, he let Dalton know that he has an easy pass open on the outside.  With Gilchrist on the other end, there is very little chance of Williams being aggressive on this short route.   Once again, notice Revis not getting beat by AJ Green with press coverage.

7)

1st & 10

 Remember this formation?  Remember the match up issue last time with only two players to cover three offensive players?  Well here we go again.  The only reason this doesn’t go for more yards is because LaFell has horrible vision on this play and doesn’t go up the field when he had a chance to.  Either way, the Jets got fooled by the same exact play twice in one half.

8)

2nd & 5

 Coming out of the two minute warning, the Bengals come out with triple receivers wide left.  The Jets counter with two CBs and a deep safety.  There is one in-line TE to the right side of the formation, but the defense assigns three players to defend him (who doesn’t even run a route).  This is just a complete failure from an acumen stand point because there is absolutely nothing special about this play.  By the time the safety gets close to the receiver, he would have gained about ten yards as the worst case scenario for the Bengals.   Once again, Calvin Pryor is useless on this play as he’s too close to the line in a situation where he should be on the other side of the field or playing deep safety so Gilchrist can get closer to the third receiver.

9)

1st & 10

Did you notice the times where Revis was playing AJ Green on man coverage and doing a good job?  Apparently the coaches didn’t, because they move him about eight yards off the line, and the Bengals are back to easy throws and catches.  Again, Dalton is a bit late with this throw and it still doesn’t matter.  This is just a terrible play call overall because the Jets give safety help over the top, but refuse to press the receiver, thus taking the safeties out of play.

10)

2nd & 6

 Same play, same result, only this time Green runs a bit further down the field to make sure he gets the first down.  With safety help, why is Revis playing so far back?  Green is a great receiver and he schools Revis on this play with this out route.  Revis gets beat like a drum on plays where he isn’t in press coverage, but why do they still have him playing back?

11)

1st & 10

 A lucky break for the Jets because AJ Green is gone on this play for a 93 yard TD if inexplicably doesn’t step out of bounds by taking a wide turn.  Once again, Revis decides to back up off the line, which makes this play for the Bengals.  It allows the slot receiver to engage the CB first, buying him enough time for other blockers to form behind him, thus enabling him to disengage and go after Revis next.  This entire play is made by Revis backing up from the line.  Once again, we have Calvin Pryor being useless on the other side of the field.   AJ Green knows he should have taken this to the house and there is really no reason for him to run out of bounds here when he was in the clear.

12)

3rd & 18

 One of the biggest goals of a defense is to get the opposing offense in third and long situations.  The Jets did just that in this case, and then completely fell apart because the Bengals quick snapped this ball and the entire defense was caught off-guard.  It might be a side product of practicing with Fitzpatrick reciting social security numbers of his receivers, but they acted as if they didn’t know the ball could be snapped prior to some finger pointing.  The Bengals took advantage of this situation, because it’s 3rd and long, so they are just looking for a one on one match up down the field, and throwing up a prayer.  If it’s caught great, if it’s not then punt, and if it’s intercepted then it acts as a punt.  Since these are the Jets, the receiver caught the ball for a first down.  The two safeties looked like they were skipping backwards holding hands as the ball was snapped.

13)

2nd & 8

Have you seen this before?  Revis backing away, quick throw and catch from Dalton to Green?  Once again, why?

14)

1st & 10

This isn’t a bad play, in fact it’s one of the better coverage schemes in the game.  The Jets are playing with a single high safety with man coverage, and AJ Green simply beats Darrelle Revis.  Sometimes, you just have to tip your cap to the opposition because they made a great play.  This is a great throw and catch by the Bengals, and Revis has excellent coverage on this pass.  Unfortunately, Green just makes a great catch to negate the coverage.

15)

1st & 10

Revis off the line, pitch and catch to Green? Yes.

16)

1st & 10

This play actually happens earlier in the game, but it’s another opportunity to show how the Jets were lucky to not give up another TD in this game.  There is late movement by the TE from one side to the other, but the Jets do absolutely nothing to actually adjust for this play.  They are once again caught in a disadvantage with a deep safety and two corners covering three receivers.  David Harris comes from the middle to cover the TE, but he can’t stay with the TE with his lack of speed.  Furthermore, Harris engages the TE and then looks towards the backfield, which allows the TE to run freely to the outside.  A decent throw and this is an easy TD.  The Jets once again, show a major lack of adjustment to late movement.   Pryor was injured on the previous play, so Rontez Miles took his spot to be out of position on this play.

Conclusion:

The Jets were lucky to lose as closely as they did.  The Bengals blew two touchdowns in this game, and consistently took advantage of the Jets miscommunication and lack of adjustments.  The Jets defense almost looked as if they just weren’t prepared for the late movements from the Bengals, and the coverage choices were certainly befuddling.  Darrelle Revis did a much better job in press coverage, but far too often they allowed him to move away from the line of scrimmage, making life easier for AJ Green and the Bengals.  The safety play was atrocious in this game, and you can clearly see why the Jets invested two picks in the draft to make changes at safety.

Forum Questions:

1. On a scale of 1 to 10 (with the lowest being 1), how confident are you with Calvin Pryor? 
2. What is your feeling on Revis?
3. What is your assessment on Marcus Williams

 

 

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[peebag]

que?

[SickJetFan]

Forum Questions:

1. On a scale of 1 to 10 (with the lowest being 1), how confident are you with Calvin Pryor? I give him a 3 as in well below average and def a bust in terms of where he was picked in draft
2. What is your feeling on Revis? I really believe he should spend some money and buy some hair
3. What is your assessment on Marcus Williams - he is the 7th CB on my list and 1st to be cut when they need the roster spot.  He is 7th not because he is worse than some of the others but rather less upside than the rest.

[ASH1962]

I am not the least bit concerned with our horrifically $hitty defense. Remember, we are led by a defensive genius. Todd Bubba Gump Bowltite will turn things around and lead us to a championship and we will have a Championship caliber defense this year  LOL. And if we lose, he will sooth us fans with his attitude and one word answers to reporters questions.

I have not a doubt in my mind.

 

[win4ever]

4 hours ago, peebag said:

que?

Just reviewing defensive issues, although I don't think a game by game one works.  Easier to just bundle the issues with certain players.  I think for the next one, I'll just pick a player and go with the good/bad because this takes too long. 

3 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

Forum Questions:

1. On a scale of 1 to 10 (with the lowest being 1), how confident are you with Calvin Pryor? I give him a 3 as in well below average and def a bust in terms of where he was picked in draft
2. What is your feeling on Revis? I really believe he should spend some money and buy some hair
3. What is your assessment on Marcus Williams - he is the 7th CB on my list and 1st to be cut when they need the roster spot.  He is 7th not because he is worse than some of the others but rather less upside than the rest.

1.  I'm actually surprised at how often he is out of position.  It's almost as if he doesn't pay attention to the offense and really is just out there without much of a plan.  

2.  Revis in the subsequent games is going to take a nose dive because he abandons press cover, but I didn't think he was horrible in this game while playing press. 

3.  He gets a ton of interceptions but he also seems to be in the Pryor mode of being out of place far too often.

2 hours ago, ASH1962 said:

I am not the least bit concerned with our horrifically $hitty defense. Remember, we are led by a defensive genius. Todd Bubba Gump Bowltite will turn things around and lead us to a championship and we will have a Championship caliber defense this year  LOL. And if we lose, he will sooth us fans with his attitude and one word answers to reporters questions.

I have not a doubt in my mind.

 

Lol, honestly was surprised Kacy Rodgers was back, because this defense is consistently under-prepared.  They react late to adjustments, constantly get caught out of position, and frankly they were lucky to be as bad as they were last year, because the Bengals could have easily scored two TDs, and it doesn't get much better in season.  

The one thing I did notice was the horrendous safety play, so I can at least see why they wanted two safeties.  Pryor should just convert to linebacker or something, because he's lost at safety. 

[SickJetFan]

14 minutes ago, win4ever said:

Just reviewing defensive issues, although I don't think a game by game one works.  Easier to just bundle the issues with certain players.  I think for the next one, I'll just pick a player and go with the good/bad because this takes too long. 

1.  I'm actually surprised at how often he is out of position.  It's almost as if he doesn't pay attention to the offense and really is just out there without much of a plan.  

2.  Revis in the subsequent games is going to take a nose dive because he abandons press cover, but I didn't think he was horrible in this game while playing press. 

3.  He gets a ton of interceptions but he also seems to be in the Pryor mode of being out of place far too often.

Lol, honestly was surprised Kacy Rodgers was back, because this defense is consistently under-prepared.  They react late to adjustments, constantly get caught out of position, and frankly they were lucky to be as bad as they were last year, because the Bengals could have easily scored two TDs, and it doesn't get much better in season.  

The one thing I did notice was the horrendous safety play, so I can at least see why they wanted two safeties.  Pryor should just convert to linebacker or something, because he's lost at safety. 

1.  I'm actually surprised at how often he is out of position.  It's almost as if he doesn't pay attention to the offense and really is just out there without much of a plan.

check out the Chiefs game on him and how he lines up and how easy they get it to TE.  Not sure when they started using more Miles in his place but it was in Chief game for sure.  Miles was better but marginally.

also you should try to highlight Gilchrist and his lack of effort on YAC - there many examples of him waiting for others to do the tackle for him.

[Beerfish]

Half of those plays are due to idiotic formations and coaching as well.  I think we may be in for a grim surprise next year when our new great young safeties are looking at each other hands on hips because Bowles has them playing in bad spots.

[SickJetFan]

11 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Half of those plays are due to idiotic formations and coaching as well.  I think we may be in for a grim surprise next year when our new great young safeties are looking at each other hands on hips because Bowles has them playing in bad spots.

a lot of it is on pryor just being a dumbass though...and Gilchrist being a pussy

 

[win4ever]

18 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

1.  I'm actually surprised at how often he is out of position.  It's almost as if he doesn't pay attention to the offense and really is just out there without much of a plan.

check out the Chiefs game on him and how he lines up and how easy they get it to TE.  Not sure when they started using more Miles in his place but it was in Chief game for sure.  Miles was better but marginally.

also you should try to highlight Gilchrist and his lack of effort on YAC - there many examples of him waiting for others to do the tackle for him.

Pryor just seems to run around, he's consistently out of position.  If he wasn't a first round pick, pretty sure he'd be cut already.  I wonder if they can move him to LB or something, so he can be closer to the LOS.  He's ok with blitzes, but he's horrible with coverage.

Yeah, going to focus more on just players next time because it's pointless to go game by game in the off season.  I saw Revis slowly jog a few times instead of making a tackle.  

9 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Half of those plays are due to idiotic formations and coaching as well.  I think we may be in for a grim surprise next year when our new great young safeties are looking at each other hands on hips because Bowles has them playing in bad spots.

It's the lack of adjustments that really bother me.  If you look at the plays, there are a bunch of them where they have three guys on one side, and the Jets somehow counter with two and a very deep safety, thus one guy is bound to be wide open.  It makes no sense, and it happens consistently.  Every defense that we face, they have guys rushing  over to cover this, but we literally just stand around for them to make the snap.  

[bLguerriero1]

as a football coach, I always enjoy talking a little ball... slow day in the offseason, let's take a closer look at what's going on here

Quote

So after viewing the good defensive plays from Week 1, let’s look at the bad plays.  The Jets secondary was in shambles all year, and opposing teams repeatedly put up strong numbers against them.  They had quite possibly one of the worst secondaries in the league, and major communication issues.

Failure:

1)

so Bengals line up in an empty look, most teams have automatic empty checks and it looks like this one is cover 1.. looks like the Jets had an idea of what was going on because they line the LB over the RB.. RB motions back into the backfield into an End Over set, LB moves back into the box.  There are two TE's to the defensive right with one being ineligible which is why 1 LB is firing off the edge (cancel one of the extra gaps) with a CB man on the eligible TE.  Safety to the bottom is middle of the field but since the only vertical threat is a TE, he's playing over the two WR's.  So I would disagree that there is a major lack of communication, but I am wondering why Revis goes from press man to off man, and opens up his hips outside knowing he has middle of the field help.

2nd & 9

This is essentially pitch and catch for the Bengals.  This defensive alignment shows a major lack of communication and understanding among the players.  When the receiver to the left of the formation goes in motion, both Revis and Marcus Gilchrist take steps backwards.  It should only be one of them, because the only reason Revis should be moving back is to protect the deep route.  Instead, Gilchrist takes himself right out of the play, and Revis allows an easy completion to an elite receiver.  If Gilchrist is moving deeper on the field, Revis has to stay on press man coverage since Gilchrist is his safety net over the top.

2)

Muddle huddle/crazy formations are annoying and most coaches don't dedicate enough time to them.. good by the bengals

1st & 10

A unique formation, which game pass later identifies as a “Barnyard Formation”, and the Jets are completely caught off-guard.  The read for Dalton on this play is very easy, as he looks to his right and sees three players on offense with two defenders.  There is no one else nearby to stop this play, so if they can just get decent blocking, this is going for big yards.  The Jets show a clear lack of defensive acumen here by leaving someone as dangerous as AJ Green without a defender, and it comes back to bite them for a first down.  This formation and play will come up later in this article, with very similar results.

3)

I would argue this has anything to do with the safety.  Bengals are in an 11 personnel formation.  Jets are bluffing cover 1 again which is why Pryor is coming down and the other safety is floating to the middle.  We got 2 man to the top, so everyone is man to man with safety help.  To the bottom we have an inverted two, the corner is bailing to deep half, the safety is the Curl/Flat or under 1 player, LB is Hook/Curl player or some teams call 2 to 1.  Bengals are running 4 verts.  It's a good job by both the safety and LB of running with verticals, tough to ask those guys to have run responsibility and run with a guy vertical so they have to do enough to force air under the ball.  The culprit here is the corner.  When you bail out, most are taught to lean heavy on #2 because the throw to #1 is longer and you'll have time to baseball turn to hit.  You can see the corner breaking on it, but he goes for the interception and not the pass break up and that's what springs the play.

2nd & 3

 Here is a prime example of why the Jets need better secondary players, especially at safety.  First, notice Marcus Williams going backwards, as Calvin Pryor moves forward.  This was the counter movement we didn’t see in example 1 with the Jets.  However, Pryor moves far too much up the field, leaving him trailing on this play.  The play is busted partially because of this, since Williams now can’t switch to the TE running down the middle fast enough.  Darron Lee does an OK job trying to stay with the TE, but it’s a very good throw by Dalton, which is then followed by a horrible job by Lee to tackle the runner.  If Pryor isn’t as far up the field at the start of this play, there is a chance that Williams makes the move towards the center of the field faster.  Notice Revis on the other side of the field in press man coverage, holding his own against AJ Green.

4)

Jets get caught against drag/dig in a 0 blitz, that's a whole lot of space to defend man with no help.  Good job by Daulton getting it there with rush in his face.  Heart breaking 1st down but I understand the gamble deep in Bengal territory.

3rd & 7

For all the interceptions by Marcus Williams, there are too many plays such as these.  In a crucial third down situation, the secondary has major miscommunication issues.  Brandon LaFell moves prior to the snap, which completely throws off the defense.  Calvin Pryor vacates the middle of the field for a blitz and Marcus Williams is left all alone.  If the call is for a safety blitz, then Williams has to follow LaFell through the movement, because as it plays out, it seems like the Jets have man coverage called.  There is no reason for Williams to stay back in this case and leave LaFell open to run through the middle of the field.  Notice Revis on man coverage, and how AJ Green doesn’t have an easy reception available to him.

5)

Bengals using orbit motion to run Sail.  Good concept by Bengals to know Corner was going to be out of position from the motion.  Looks like cover 3, corners and deep safety are all deep 1/3's.  Terrible job by the middle of the field safety, gets his feet stuck in mud, he needs to be deeper than the deepest.  Good job by the corner recovering.

1st & 10

 Late movement, bad adjustment once more for the defense.  This is a horrible play all around for the Jets.  First, in a single high safety look with no immediate help, where is Marcus Williams moving to with the movement?  He gives inside leverage, as if he’s expecting safety help in the intermediate area.  Second, Revis is slow to react to the movement and watches AJ Green fly right by him.  This is a prime example of Revis being a bad zone CB because he’s not quick in his reactions.  He wins his match ups by being knowledgeable about routes in man coverage and mimicking them, but doesn’t do a good job to reacting for plays in zone coverage or off coverage.  The only reason Revis is even close to the ball on this play is because Dalton hangs the ball in the air for too long.  The safety on this play, Gilchrist is caught in no man’s land and makes himself promptly useless by covering absolutely no one.  He sees an open receiver streaking in front of him, while an open receiver streaks right by him and decides to play it safe and stand in the middle.  This is a disaster of a play with Dalton having multiple options of wide open receivers down the field.

6)

Again tip of the cap to the Bengals for running an RPO.  Run/pass option means they can run outside zone or throw the front side hitch, not sure what their indicator is.  Looks like similar concept from before, 2 man to the bottom with inverted 2 to the top.  Tough for the CB to be a deep half/third player  and play that, and it's also difficult for the under 1 player to get there because they are probably reading him.  I could be wrong, could be cover 1.  If it's 1, yeah that's not great.  If it's some kind of 2, that's tough.  

1st & 10

 Marcus Williams gets burned again on this play.  Another easy pitch and catch situation where the Jets decide to give up easy yards.  On this play, Calvin Pryor moves up the field, as Williams moves backwards, but Pryor is too far inside to have an impact on the play.   Williams is backing up because he no longer has intermediate help from Pryor so he has to concede the short pass to protect against the deep pass, but a veteran QB can dissect this game plan all day long.  Pryor has to stay neutral on this play, because by moving up, he let Dalton know that he has an easy pass open on the outside.  With Gilchrist on the other end, there is very little chance of Williams being aggressive on this short route.   Once again, notice Revis not getting beat by AJ Green with press coverage.

7)

They actually didn't do a bad job covering this. Jets have brought a guy over, but Bengals brought an extra so it's actually 3 over 4.  Good by the Bengals.

1st & 10

 Remember this formation?  Remember the match up issue last time with only two players to cover three offensive players?  Well here we go again.  The only reason this doesn’t go for more yards is because LaFell has horrible vision on this play and doesn’t go up the field when he had a chance to.  Either way, the Jets got fooled by the same exact play twice in one half.

8)

Looks like they got caught in a 0 blitz again.  Bengals with another RPO, OZ with a Bubble screen.

2nd & 5

 Coming out of the two minute warning, the Bengals come out with triple receivers wide left.  The Jets counter with two CBs and a deep safety.  There is one in-line TE to the right side of the formation, but the defense assigns three players to defend him (who doesn’t even run a route).  This is just a complete failure from an acumen stand point because there is absolutely nothing special about this play.  By the time the safety gets close to the receiver, he would have gained about ten yards as the worst case scenario for the Bengals.   Once again, Calvin Pryor is useless on this play as he’s too close to the line in a situation where he should be on the other side of the field or playing deep safety so Gilchrist can get closer to the third receiver.

9)

This could be a number of things but because the balls out so quickly it's tough to tell.  Maybe a goaline fence coverage?  Read 2? True Robber?  But yeah they're going to give up the 5 yarder and not the touchdown.

1st & 10

Did you notice the times where Revis was playing AJ Green on man coverage and doing a good job?  Apparently the coaches didn’t, because they move him about eight yards off the line, and the Bengals are back to easy throws and catches.  Again, Dalton is a bit late with this throw and it still doesn’t matter.  This is just a terrible play call overall because the Jets give safety help over the top, but refuse to press the receiver, thus taking the safeties out of play.

10)

Again tough to tell, may be Robber.  May be a bracket coverage, looks that way at the bottom?  Either way, I would agree the top isn't very impressive.  If it's robber the safety needs to activate.

2nd & 6

 Same play, same result, only this time Green runs a bit further down the field to make sure he gets the first down.  With safety help, why is Revis playing so far back?  Green is a great receiver and he schools Revis on this play with this out route.  Revis gets beat like a drum on plays where he isn’t in press coverage, but why do they still have him playing back?

11)

Bengals getting creative, same look as before but now it's tackle over.  The TE to the side of the 2 WR's is eligible so the Jets have to make a 3x1 check.  Looks like they go Revis is deep over 1 and 2 with middle of the field safety vertical of 3.  The guy who has the make this play is the LB who gets sucked up hard on the play fake, otherwise you're counting on guys getting off blocks.

1st & 10

 A lucky break for the Jets because AJ Green is gone on this play for a 93 yard TD if inexplicably doesn’t step out of bounds by taking a wide turn.  Once again, Revis decides to back up off the line, which makes this play for the Bengals.  It allows the slot receiver to engage the CB first, buying him enough time for other blockers to form behind him, thus enabling him to disengage and go after Revis next.  This entire play is made by Revis backing up from the line.  Once again, we have Calvin Pryor being useless on the other side of the field.   AJ Green knows he should have taken this to the house and there is really no reason for him to run out of bounds here when he was in the clear.

12)

Yeah gotta get set

3rd & 18

 One of the biggest goals of a defense is to get the opposing offense in third and long situations.  The Jets did just that in this case, and then completely fell apart because the Bengals quick snapped this ball and the entire defense was caught off-guard.  It might be a side product of practicing with Fitzpatrick reciting social security numbers of his receivers, but they acted as if they didn’t know the ball could be snapped prior to some finger pointing.  The Bengals took advantage of this situation, because it’s 3rd and long, so they are just looking for a one on one match up down the field, and throwing up a prayer.  If it’s caught great, if it’s not then punt, and if it’s intercepted then it acts as a punt.  Since these are the Jets, the receiver caught the ball for a first down.  The two safeties looked like they were skipping backwards holding hands as the ball was snapped.

13)

Cover 3 vs RPO

2nd & 8

Have you seen this before?  Revis backing away, quick throw and catch from Dalton to Green?  Once again, why?

14)

Cover 1 vs RPO

1st & 10

This isn’t a bad play, in fact it’s one of the better coverage schemes in the game.  The Jets are playing with a single high safety with man coverage, and AJ Green simply beats Darrelle Revis.  Sometimes, you just have to tip your cap to the opposition because they made a great play.  This is a great throw and catch by the Bengals, and Revis has excellent coverage on this pass.  Unfortunately, Green just makes a great catch to negate the coverage.

15)

Not set, looked like it was going 0 blitz... Bengals going RPO

1st & 10

Revis off the line, pitch and catch to Green? Yes.

16)

Motions to 3x1, Jets check.  Looks like Revis is deep between 1 and 2, safety is 3 vertical.  The over hang is reading 3?  If he is, it's his fault he's gotta come off.  If he's not and he's bracketing, this is the LBs'.  Gets a collision and looks back at the QB.

1st & 10

This play actually happens earlier in the game, but it’s another opportunity to show how the Jets were lucky to not give up another TD in this game.  There is late movement by the TE from one side to the other, but the Jets do absolutely nothing to actually adjust for this play.  They are once again caught in a disadvantage with a deep safety and two corners covering three receivers.  David Harris comes from the middle to cover the TE, but he can’t stay with the TE with his lack of speed.  Furthermore, Harris engages the TE and then looks towards the backfield, which allows the TE to run freely to the outside.  A decent throw and this is an easy TD.  The Jets once again, show a major lack of adjustment to late movement.   Pryor was injured on the previous play, so Rontez Miles took his spot to be out of position on this play.

Conclusion:

My conclusion:  The Bengals are doing some very good things that put you in a  tough position.  You can't line up with one defense the entire time (having Revis bump always.)  I don't think revis just backs off, the defense is checking.  I would agree that some times they disguise to the point where they aren't in ideal position.  I would also say between getting caught in some coverages and just not being talented enough, I'm happy they are revamping the secondary.

The Jets were lucky to lose as closely as they did.  The Bengals blew two touchdowns in this game, and consistently took advantage of the Jets miscommunication and lack of adjustments.  The Jets defense almost looked as if they just weren’t prepared for the late movements from the Bengals, and the coverage choices were certainly befuddling.  Darrelle Revis did a much better job in press coverage, but far too often they allowed him to move away from the line of scrimmage, making life easier for AJ Green and the Bengals.  The safety play was atrocious in this game, and you can clearly see why the Jets invested two picks in the draft to make changes at safety.

Forum Questions:

1. On a scale of 1 to 10 (with the lowest being 1), how confident are you with Calvin Pryor? 
2. What is your feeling on Revis?
3. What is your assessment on Marcus Williams

 

 

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[Beerfish]

34 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

a lot of it is on pryor just being a dumbass though...and Gilchrist being a pussy

 

True but here is the rub, Gilchrist tis a pussy because of the old todd bowles mantra of our safeties are interchangeable.  glchrist is the definition of a FS, pyror is the def of a box safety.  thus my complaints that we had to draft two safeties in the 1st two rounds to appease todd bowles.

[SickJetFan]

Just now, Beerfish said:

True but here is the rub, Gilchrist tis a pussy because of the old todd bowles mantra of our safeties are interchangeable.  glchrist is the definition of a FS, pyror is the def of a box safety.  thus my complaints that we had to draft two safeties in the 1st two rounds to appease todd bowles.

but it is when he was playing FS he was a pussy.  one example go look at the chiefs game I think it was a short pass and WR got behind cb i think, Gilchrist was coming in from center and could have stopped the 1st down and made it a 5 yard play but he kept backing up in front of the WR waiting for someone to come over and tackle meanwhile its a 15 yard play...

 

I would be ok with this if he was good as FS and helped break up passes with CBs but I could not find one example of that.

[win4ever]

8 minutes ago, bLguerriero1 said:

as a football coach, I always enjoy talking a little ball... slow day in the offseason, let's take a closer look at what's going on here

 

Yeah, I actually tried to get some college tapes for drafted guys, but apparently they don't distribute them.

Thanks for the response, love talking football other than speculation on how bad we will be this year, lol.

I can't seem to quote the original edit, so here goes:

1.  I think it's a miscommunication because I think either the safety was supposed to come closer to the line of scrimmage, thus forcing Revis back in this situation (as they seem to do many times later in the game) or Revis is backing up for no reason.  By both of them moving back, they are just conceding the completion.  Revis also showing inside leverage on this play to me indicates that he actually doesn't expect safety help to the inside.  

2.  I just wish they just matched up the players at least.  I wouldn't have a problem if they just got beat, but it's 3 on 2, and that bothers me.  It sucks even more because they use the same thing again.  

3. Pryor has to get the blame for coming too far on this bluff, because he completely gives away his coverage leverage by going too far.  If he wants to bluff into a hot read, he's too far from the LOS at the start of this formation.  Williams does go for the pick instead of the pass break up or the tackle, although the new rules gave me some thought.  If he goes straight for the receiver, would it be considered a hit on a defenseless receiver?  The TE is turned around from Williams and going for the ball, so would that be a penalty if he went for the hit.  Not to mention, he'd probably lose that collision, but I kept going back and forth on his line of thinking on this play.  To me at least, it looks like Lee/Pryor are supposed to be underneath cover on this with Williams acting as the safety but he misses the interception attempt.  

4.  Marcus Williams doesn't follow his receiver on this play, if in man cover, he has to follow his receiver.  He's giving 3-4 yards of inside leverage on this play at the start so he has no real shot at covering the guy.   

5.  Bad play all around, although I think the only reason Revis even has a shot is the hang up on the throw.  Gilchrist does get caught in the middle.

6.  This looks like an option play where Dalton makes the read at the line and makes a throw if the CB backs up, goes to the run if it's in press coverage.  It's very good design by the Bengals, and something I wish the Jets would take advantage of more on offense.  We saw Fitzpatrick consistently see a match up he likes, and then have to point, yell, and practically yell out the adjustment before snapping the ball, giving defenses time to change.  

7.  Yeah, again numbers mismatch.  I think the only reason this play isn't bigger is because LaFell tries to sneak to the sideline when he had blockers and an open lane to the inside.  

8.  This one bothered me the most, so I looked at the other angle to see who was on the other end.  It was a TE at the end, but the Jets dedicated three people to that side and left Boyd completely uncovered on this play.  

9.  Why play this coverage with safety help? I think it's 2 minute drill so they give up yards and the sideline on this play.  

10.  Revis got torched consistently playing off coverage, and they went at him constantly because of it.  I'm not sure if they had advanced scouting to some weakness but they avoided him relatively well when in press, but abused him whenever he backed off.  Later in the year, Revis all but abandons press cover, which makes me wonder why.  

11.  Yeah, the LB is also at fault on this play, couldn't tell who it was (maybe Henderson?) but Revis bailing from the line has a domino effect on this play.  If Revis stays at the line, the slot receiver has to block him, which would leave Green one on one with Gilchrist.  It's not a great match up, but it ends up being better than nothing.  Revis, is protecting himself against the deep route with no safety help over the top, but then the LB screws up in going for the run.

12.  Embarrassing. 

13.  The Bengals keep abusing corners when they back away.  This makes me wonder if they actually don't respect the safeties at all in this defense.  Revis has safety help on the inside on this play, so why isn't he taking outside leverage close to the line of scrimmage?

14.  This was a play I couldn't blame them, it's just there because of the bad result.  

15.  The Jets have a corner blitz going from the other side, but Dalton beats them the other way.  

16.  This was more talent level because I don't think Harris is going to stay in coverage with any TE.  It's a personnel issue because Harris can't stay with anyone consistently.  

I'm glad they are making the changes, because I think the secondary is horrible.  I could sort of see why they went two safeties instead of a safety/corner combination because I think the lack of fear with these safeties in coverage comes out with the Bengals.  As soon as they abandon press cover with safety help over the top, and move the safeties up, the Bengals go for easy catch and throws.   I think better safeties that could possibly jump routes or stay disciplined would help them better, although they definitely need some corners too because Williams gets toasted often.  

 

[Jetdawgg]

Excellent points made here. The Jets had to go with new players at S. Being out of position and then compounding the problem with no recovery speed. Glad to move on from that

 

auto correct is a nightmare lol

[win4ever]

9 hours ago, Jetdawgg said:

Excellent points made here. The Jets had to with new splatters at S. Being out of position and then compounding the problem with no recovery speed. Glad to move on from that

Thanks. 

I'm not sure Pryor is just made out to be a safety anymore.  Even when he was drafted, he seemed like a great downhill guy where he would just run down and tackle the guy with all his momentum.  He just seems to run around without much discipline.  

[Jetdawgg]

2 minutes ago, win4ever said:

Thanks. 

I'm not sure Pryor is just made out to be a safety anymore.  Even when he was drafted, he seemed like a great downhill guy where he would just run down and tackle the guy with all his momentum.  He just seems to run around without much discipline.  

A Rex Ryan guy; big hitter

[win4ever]

Just now, Jetdawgg said:

A Rex Ryan guy; big hitter

Rex is an idiot when it comes to evaluating talent.   He seems to go for the "football character" guys instead of anything on the field.   I didn't understand the safety pick then, because it was probably the most loaded WR talent in a draft in years and we just bypassed it until it was too late.  I didn't even understand Pryor because HaHa Clinton-Dix was the better fit on the roster, but Rex loved guys who could talk trash and then hit people, but probably needed Hooked On Phonetics to understand the play calls.  

The problem is that, I'm not sure Bowles is any better with his inputs either.  One thing I hate is the "We will pick you if you fall to us" promises because it has no upside value.  If the player drops, you are forced to pick the player and you look like a fool for making false promises.  If the player doesn't fall, it doesn't matter.  Rex did it with Coples that one year, and now Bowles did the same thing.  There is no real point in doing so, but we hear a few idiots say it every year.  

[Jetdawgg]

11 minutes ago, win4ever said:

Rex is an idiot when it comes to evaluating talent.   He seems to go for the "football character" guys instead of anything on the field.   I didn't understand the safety pick then, because it was probably the most loaded WR talent in a draft in years and we just bypassed it until it was too late.  I didn't even understand Pryor because HaHa Clinton-Dix was the better fit on the roster, but Rex loved guys who could talk trash and then hit people, but probably needed Hooked On Phonetics to understand the play calls.  

The problem is that, I'm not sure Bowles is any better with his inputs either.  One thing I hate is the "We will pick you if you fall to us" promises because it has no upside value.  If the player drops, you are forced to pick the player and you look like a fool for making false promises.  If the player doesn't fall, it doesn't matter.  Rex did it with Coples that one year, and now Bowles did the same thing.  There is no real point in doing so, but we hear a few idiots say it every year.  

Lol. With the defensive play calling last year, you may have had to read Hieroglyphics to comprehend just the thinking behind the so called scheme. The disconnects are obvious and ubiquitous in the secondary. Then the issue really shows with the 4 DT's and a slow edge rusher from the 4/3 front.

Right after the Buffalo game Reid saw how to stifle the Jets DL and it was all downhill. Review that game. True that the 6 pix demoralized the team but Reid is a very intelligent coach and gets a lot out of some players.

[win4ever]

2 minutes ago, Jetdawgg said:

Lol. With the defensive play calling last year, you may have had to read Hieroglyphics to compendium just the thinking behind the so called scheme. The disconnects are obvious and ubiquitous in the secondary. Then the issue really shows with the 4 DT's and a slow edge rusher from the 4/3 front.

Right after the Buffalo game Reid saw how to stifle the Jets DL and it was all downhill. Review that game. True that the 6 nits demoralized the team but Reid is a very intelligent coach and gets a lot out of some players.

The play calling isn't as bad last year, because all you really needed to learn was 1 or 2 positions since we rarely made any adjustments.  So Pryor either had to run too far back or run too far into the offensive line, and he was set.  

Weirdly enough, I think one of the biggest weak points is actually David Harris, albeit he has been a great player for us.  With more passing, he can't cover people consistently, so teams just take advantage of it constantly.  We get killed over the middle on pass situations because there isn't much point in having Harris stay back there.  He's a great run stopper, but he's a major liability in pass coverage.  I wish they took him out more in passing situations because he just can't keep up with guys anymore, as he's clearly lost a step in coverage.  

Even before that game, I knew it was going to be bad, because the type of defense that they play.  While they play 3-4 like us, their defensive scheme is aided heavily by zone from the LBs, and an All Pro S in Berry.  The best way to beat them is by having a strong armed QB that can take advantage of said holes (Luck in the playoffs, Ben last year in the regular season) but still have enough arm strength to go over the top if need be.  Fitz just isn't that guy, he needs to throw before knowing for sure if a player will be open so he's somewhat projecting out there, and the zone is horrible for that.  Fitz faced KC once before after Sutton took over, and it was a disaster too (albeit not historically bad).  Same with Seattle, because with good safeties and zone coverage, CBs can take way more risks and Fitz can't adjust to that because he doesn't have the arm strength to do so.   

I think Reid does a good job in patiently developing a QB.  One guy I would like to see is Tyler Bray because I think he has loads of potential, but needed major time to develop.  It'd be interesting to see if he's actually gotten any better.  My guess would be no since they went big for Mahomes, but Bray has great arm talent as well.  

[Jetdawgg]

15 minutes ago, win4ever said:

The play calling isn't as bad last year, because all you really needed to learn was 1 or 2 positions since we rarely made any adjustments.  So Pryor either had to run too far back or run too far into the offensive line, and he was set.  

Weirdly enough, I think one of the biggest weak points is actually David Harris, albeit he has been a great player for us.  With more passing, he can't cover people consistently, so teams just take advantage of it constantly.  We get killed over the middle on pass situations because there isn't much point in having Harris stay back there.  He's a great run stopper, but he's a major liability in pass coverage.  I wish they took him out more in passing situations because he just can't keep up with guys anymore, as he's clearly lost a step in coverage.  

Even before that game, I knew it was going to be bad, because the type of defense that they play.  While they play 3-4 like us, their defensive scheme is aided heavily by zone from the LBs, and an All Pro S in Berry.  The best way to beat them is by having a strong armed QB that can take advantage of said holes (Luck in the playoffs, Ben last year in the regular season) but still have enough arm strength to go over the top if need be.  Fitz just isn't that guy, he needs to throw before knowing for sure if a player will be open so he's somewhat projecting out there, and the zone is horrible for that.  Fitz faced KC once before after Sutton took over, and it was a disaster too (albeit not historically bad).  Same with Seattle, because with good safeties and zone coverage, CBs can take way more risks and Fitz can't adjust to that because he doesn't have the arm strength to do so.   

I think Reid does a good job in patiently developing a QB.  One guy I would like to see is Tyler Bray because I think he has loads of potential, but needed major time to develop.  It'd be interesting to see if he's actually gotten any better.  My guess would be no since they went big for Mahomes, but Bray has great arm talent as well.  

Harris is a major liability. I agree. There were also games last season where the run killed the Jets. The Jets beat SF, but were consistently gashed inside and outside. Need I mention Az and Mia. 

[SickJetFan]

27 minutes ago, win4ever said:

The play calling isn't as bad last year, because all you really needed to learn was 1 or 2 positions since we rarely made any adjustments.  So Pryor either had to run too far back or run too far into the offensive line, and he was set.  

Weirdly enough, I think one of the biggest weak points is actually David Harris, albeit he has been a great player for us.  With more passing, he can't cover people consistently, so teams just take advantage of it constantly.  We get killed over the middle on pass situations because there isn't much point in having Harris stay back there.  He's a great run stopper, but he's a major liability in pass coverage.  I wish they took him out more in passing situations because he just can't keep up with guys anymore, as he's clearly lost a step in coverage.  

Even before that game, I knew it was going to be bad, because the type of defense that they play.  While they play 3-4 like us, their defensive scheme is aided heavily by zone from the LBs, and an All Pro S in Berry.  The best way to beat them is by having a strong armed QB that can take advantage of said holes (Luck in the playoffs, Ben last year in the regular season) but still have enough arm strength to go over the top if need be.  Fitz just isn't that guy, he needs to throw before knowing for sure if a player will be open so he's somewhat projecting out there, and the zone is horrible for that.  Fitz faced KC once before after Sutton took over, and it was a disaster too (albeit not historically bad).  Same with Seattle, because with good safeties and zone coverage, CBs can take way more risks and Fitz can't adjust to that because he doesn't have the arm strength to do so.   

I think Reid does a good job in patiently developing a QB.  One guy I would like to see is Tyler Bray because I think he has loads of potential, but needed major time to develop.  It'd be interesting to see if he's actually gotten any better.  My guess would be no since they went big for Mahomes, but Bray has great arm talent as well.  

I didnt really see that in coaches tape on Harris - yeah he got beat a few times but Lee was beat 3x more and he has speed.

and I saw them picking on SS when Pryor or Miles were not playing back...that is where they always got the 1st when they needed it

[win4ever]

47 minutes ago, Jetdawgg said:

Harris is a major liability. I agree. There were also games last season where the run killed the Jets. The Jets beat SF, but were consistently gashed inside and outside. Need I mention Az and Mia. 

We get killed on the outside consistently, I remember Hyde just running around crazy in the first half.  I think the biggest issue for the Jets is the elusive guy out of the backfield that can catch the ball or be shifty in the open field.  He's a very good player for us, but he has his faults with coverage.  I remember the year before, when Philly just dialed up wheel routes on him with Sproles and he was lost.  I'm surprised more teams don't do it every now and then, besides the Pats.

36 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

I didnt really see that in coaches tape on Harris - yeah he got beat a few times but Lee was beat 3x more and he has speed.

and I saw them picking on SS when Pryor or Miles were not playing back...that is where they always got the 1st when they needed it

Lee was really weird for me, because he would actually be in position.  I'm not saying ideal position, but if you were judging him based just on coverage ability, you'd be like "Hmm not horrible" and then the ball would go right by his ears and be caught and you are like WTF?  I'd be interested to see his progress this year, because I think if he's more aware, he could be a difference maker.  

Pryor sucks much worse, but this was a crap show of a defense.  There were plays all throughout the year, where the QB has multiple wide open guys running free.  If it was a college tape, people would discount the stats saying they won't face horrible defenses like this in the NFL.  

[Jetdawgg]

14 minutes ago, win4ever said:

We get killed on the outside consistently, I remember Hyde just running around crazy in the first half.  I think the biggest issue for the Jets is the elusive guy out of the backfield that can catch the ball or be shifty in the open field.  He's a very good player for us, but he has his faults with coverage.  I remember the year before, when Philly just dialed up wheel routes on him with Sproles and he was lost.  I'm surprised more teams don't do it every now and then, besides the Pats.

Lee was really weird for me, because he would actually be in position.  I'm not saying ideal position, but if you were judging him based just on coverage ability, you'd be like "Hmm not horrible" and then the ball would go right by his ears and be caught and you are like WTF?  I'd be interested to see his progress this year, because I think if he's more aware, he could be a difference maker.  

Pryor sucks much worse, but this was a crap show of a defense.  There were plays all throughout the year, where the QB has multiple wide open guys running free.  If it was a college tape, people would discount the stats saying they won't face horrible defenses like this in the NFL.  

I remember that Philly game. I was in Philly that Sunday lol. Sproles was blinded temporarily by Harris' helmet on one of those throws. Would have been a TD. Harris was undressed 

Hyde was looking like Barry Sanders that game last season. Luckily the 49'ers D was worse than ours....lol

[win4ever]

7 minutes ago, Jetdawgg said:

I remember that Philly game. I was in Philly that Sunday lol. Sproles was blinded temporarily by Harris' helmet on one of those throws. Would have been a TD. Harris was undressed 

Hyde was looking like Barry Sanders that game last season. Luckily the 49'ers D was worse than ours....lol

Yeah he missed one of those plays.  I think he was the biggest reason why we got Lee, but we need more speed on this defense still in the LB section.  

The 49ers looked like they went conservative in the second half, playing like they were throwing the game lol.