Kenny Easley and his 7 years of play now in the HOF

[bitonti]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Gas set the sack record with what 22 sacks, Klecko had 20 one season 

 

Klecko's wikipedia says he had 24 career sacks and also 20.5 in one season and 7.5 in another. One of those numbers has to be wrong. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Klecko

[nycdan]

Because the official statistic started towards the end of his career so he has 24 'official' sacks.  The totals from before for him and Gastineau aren't always counted.  it's silly but there it is.

[Jet Nut]

8 minutes ago, bitonti said:

If you were watching the 1982 Jets and I told you there was 1 hall of fame defensive lineman on the roster, you wouldn't guess it was Klecko. 

The Hall is often about players who were so physically dominant that you'll never forget that guy. Especially on the line. Mean Joe Greene for example. 

The Hall is not full of versatile players who grind and make the most of their limited physical gifts. 

Hands down it was Klecko.

The hall has nothing to do with gifted players, it has to do with production. Gas was a great sack artist, he better have been he sold out on every play to get to the QB. Versatile players?  Klecko made the pro bowl at every line position.  Klecko played the position, was the better player.  Fans know sacks.  Its simple and is posted from week to week while good, solid play takes an eye for play not one simplistic sack.  Its why a L Williams doesnt make the pro bowl right from the get go, hes a better player who didnt have pop out sack totals.  Shame that too many take the simple route like you are.

[bitonti]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Hands down it was Klecko.

The hall has nothing to do with gifted players, it has to do with production. Gas was a great sack artist, he better have been he sold out on every play to get to the QB. Versatile players?  Klecko made the pro bowl at every line position.  Klecko played the position, was the better player.  Fans know sacks.  Its simple and is posted from week to week while good, solid play takes an eye for play not one simplistic sack.  Its why a L Williams doesnt make the pro bowl right from the get go, hes a better player who didnt have pop out sack totals.  Shame that too many take the simple route like you are.

He did not jump off the screen with highlights. He did not make athletic plays that you'd tell your grandkids about. He was good COMPLIMENTARY player.  

Gastineau got all the double teams. Gastineau is who kept offensive coordinators up at night.

People have this revisionist history. Klecko did not leap tall buildings in a single bound. Gastineau did.  

We all have forgotten or hate his ass because of Brigitte Neilson but if you had to choose 1 of these players for 1 game, most coaches wouldn't pick Joe Klecko. 

He was bigger, faster, more aggressive, in short Gastineau was better than Klecko by every measure except being a good teammate. 

[Jet Nut]

10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Klecko's wikipedia says he had 24 career sacks and also 20.5 in one season and 7.5 in another. One of those numbers has to be wrong. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Klecko

They didnt count sacks his entire career.  Some season totals just arent official.  He had 20.5 though, thats right, was a total beast at DE before his knee injuries.  Youre selling him way too short with your comments.  1.5 sacks less than Gas and a much, much better all around player

[bitonti]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

They didnt count sacks his entire career.  Some season totals just arent official.  He had 20.5 though, thats right, was a total beast at DE before his knee injuries.  Youre selling him way too short with your comments.  1.5 sacks less than Gas and a much, much better all around player

Klecko did not have 1.5 sacks less than Gastineau. 99 had 107.5 career sacks 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Gastineau

He lead the league in sacks for 2 straight years and had 4 sacks in the Pro Bowl

He holds the following New York Jets franchise records:

• Career Sacks (107.5)
• Single Season Sacks (22.0)
• Single Game Sacks (4.0)
• Career Fumble Returns For Touchdown (2)

 

[Jet Nut]

Just now, bitonti said:

He did not jump off the screen with highlights. He did not make athletic plays that you'd tell your grandkids about. He was good COMPLIMENTARY player.  

Gastineau got all the double teams. Gastineau is who kept offensive coordinators up at night.

People have this revisionist history. Klecko did not leap tall buildings in a single bound. Gastineau did.  

We all have forgotten or hate his ass because of Brigitte Neilson but if you had to choose 1 of these players for 1 game, most coaches wouldn't pick Joe Klecko. 

He was bigger, faster, more aggressive, in short Gastineau was better than Klecko by every measure except being a good teammate. 

Its you with the revisionist history.  Klecko who was doubled at least as often as Gas.  Teams just let Gas run himself out of plays chasing the sack.  Klecko was the much better all around player.  Both were animals to deal with, Klecko just was better.  Shula picked Klecko over Gas, most did

[bitonti]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Its you with the revisionist history.  Klecko who was doubled at least as often as Gas.  Teams just let Gas run himself out of plays chasing the sack.  Klecko was the much better all around player.  Both were animals to deal with, Klecko just was better.  Shula picked Klecko over Gas, most did

There's no question who is a better person. 99 was a much better player ON THE FIELD and it's not really a debate. I like Klecko by the way he's one of my faves. But so is Mark Gastineau and that's who was the better player.  

[Jet Nut]

Just now, bitonti said:

Klecko did not have 1.5 sacks less than Gastineau. 99 had 107.5 career sacks 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Gastineau

He lead the league in sacks for 2 straight years and had 4 sacks in the Pro Bowl

He holds the following New York Jets franchise records:

• Career Sacks (107.5)
• Single Season Sacks (22.0)
• Single Game Sacks (4.0)
• Career Fumble Returns For Touchdown (2)

 

You just cant get it through your head that sack totals werent recorded early in his career, that Klecko injured his knee and Ive been saying pre knee all along, Klecko was moved inside and to the nose.  

 

[Jet Nut]

Just now, bitonti said:

There's no question who is a better person. 99 was a much better player ON THE FIELD and it's not really a debate. I like Klecko by the way he's one of my faves. But so is Mark Gastineau and that's who was the better player.  

Admit it, you never watched them because no one who did would agree with you.  And like you I was a huge fan of each, loved the sack dance

[bitonti]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

You just cant get it through your head that sack totals werent recorded early in his career, that Klecko injured his knee and Ive been saying pre knee all along, Klecko was moved inside and to the nose.  

 

Even if they were recorded Klecko wasn't sacking players at the rate of Gastineau. no one did, until Strahan.

 

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Admit it, you never watched them because no one who did would agree with you.  And like you I was a huge fan of each, loved the sack dance

 I learned to be a Jets fan by my father's side, watching the sack exchange. They were all good players. But Klecko, Lyons and Salaam were the supporting cast. 99 was the stud of that group. He was an a$$hole but that doesn't change history. 

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Even if they were recorded Klecko wasn't sacking players at the rate of Gastineau. no one did, until Strahan.

 

 I learned to be a Jets fan by my father's side, watching the sack exchange. They were all good players. But Klecko, Lyons and Salaam were the supporting cast. 99 was the stud of that group. He was an a$$hole but that doesn't change history. 

Cant agree, sorry.  Before the injury Klecko was the better all around player.  

We are splitting hairs, they both were special

[bitonti]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Cant agree, sorry.  Before the injury Klecko was the better all around player.  

Cmon They don't do hall of fame busts for how people look in the 2 years before their major knee injury. It's for career length dominance. Even if the career is only 7 years like Easley. It also isn't just about stats or production it's also about being a physical freak. The type of guy you remember meeting in an elevator cause he was so damn huge.

Joe Klecko is a normal dude who made the most of limited physical gifts. That's a great Rudy story but it's not Hall of Fame stuff. Not without a fist ful of rings.   

Look even if we don't agree you have to see that these two players are connected through history (and they always will be).

At best they split each other's vote. At worst, Klecko's job was much easier because of Mark Gastineau. 

[Jet Nut]

Just now, bitonti said:

Cmon They don't do hall of fame busts for how people look in the 2 years before their major knee injury. It's for career length dominance. Even if the career is only 7 years like Easley. It also isn't just about stats or production it's also about being a physical freak. The type of guy you remember meeting in an elevator cause he was so damn huge.

Joe Klecko is a normal dude who made the most of limited physical gifts. That's a great Rudy story but it's not Hall of Fame stuff. Not without a fist ful of rings.   

Look even if we don't agree you have to see that these two players are connected through history (and they always will be).

At best they split each other's vote. At worst, Klecko's job was much easier because of Mark Gastineau. 

If youre right why is nobody, anywhere, making a case for Gastineau to the hall?  And loads of HOFs are solidly behind Klecko going in, for Hannah to Long? 

[nyjunc]

20 hours ago, bitonti said:

Kenny Easley made 5 pro Bowls and 4 All Pro teams 

Joe Klecko made 4 Pro Bowls and 2 All Pro teams

Easley had 32 career interceptions, Klecko had 24 career sacks.

neither won a ring but Easley's resume is better. Saying otherwise is homerism. 

Both were great players in the 80s, both are HOF caliber based on players they have let in, both should be in.  the difference is Seattle has been great and it has brought poisitive attention to that franchise just like when Andre Tippett finally made it for NE.  we need to win on the field consistently and it will help get Joe in.

 

by the way, Joe's sack #s are that low b/c the sack wasn't an official stat until 1982.  Just adding his 20.5 in 1981 completely changes things.  

[bitonti]

7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

If youre right why is nobody, anywhere, making a case for Gastineau to the hall?  And loads of HOFs are solidly behind Klecko going in, for Hannah to Long? 

Because he was a terrible person and a bad teammate. It's that simple. Gastineau the player was a stud, but the person was a scumbag.

Klecko is an excellent person (Tax stuff side) but he wasn't an amazing athlete. 

If Gastineau had Klecko's personality, he'd be in the hall. 

As it stands neither gets in and I don't think it's a terrible call. It's hard to get a HOF bust without a ring. 

[nyjunc]

17 minutes ago, bitonti said:

There's no question who is a better person. 99 was a much better player ON THE FIELD and it's not really a debate. I like Klecko by the way he's one of my faves. But so is Mark Gastineau and that's who was the better player.  

for as fun as gastineau was to watch rush the QB he killed our Ds by never worrying about the run and opposing O's exploited our Ds. Klecko was by far the better overall player, gastineau the better pass rusher but again that's all he cared about.

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Because he was a terrible person and a bad teammate. It's that simple. Gastineau the player was a stud, but the person was a scumbag.

Klecko is an excellent person (Tax stuff side) but he wasn't an amazing athlete. 

If Gastineau had Klecko's personality, he'd be in the hall. 

As it stands neither gets in and I don't think it's a terrible call. It's hard to get a HOF bust without a ring. 

How was Gastineau a bad person?  Teammates had issues with because he was a self centered, self promoter who sold out for the sack for his fame.

Other than that there was nothing wrong with him as a person, nothing more than being a convicted liar like Klecko.  

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

by the way, Joe's sack #s are that low b/c the sack wasn't an official stat until 1982.  Just adding his 20.5 in 1981 completely changes things.  

 

Adding the 20.5 helps and gets him to ~40 career sacks. Gastineau had over 100.

People are remembering things the way they want to. Klecko was never a dominator like Gastineau.

 

[bitonti]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

How was Gastineau a bad person?  Teammates had issues with because he was a self centered, self promoter who sold out for the sack for his fame.

Other than that there was nothing wrong with him as a person, nothing more than being a convicted liar like Klecko.  

The NFL is not a nice place so I don't think Klecko's tax stuff (or lying) really hurts him. Lying isn't hurting the Patriots.

When 99 left his team in the lurch to become a boxer he burned every bridge he ever had. I don't think people cared that all he wanted was sacks. That's like every NFL player all they want is personal stats. It's that he left his teammates in a bad spot when they needed him most (and the Brigitte of it all)

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

The NFL is not a nice place so I don't think Klecko's tax stuff (or lying) really hurts him. Lying isn't hurting the Patriots.

When 99 left his team in the lurch to become a boxer he burned every bridge he ever had. I don't think people cared that all he wanted was sacks. That's like every NFL player all they want is personal stats. It's that he left his teammates in a bad spot when they needed him most (and the Brigitte of it all)

He didnt leave the NFL to become a boxer.  He tried boxing when football was over.  Just like Too Tall did.  Never hurt him.

Gas burned no bridges, always has tried to keep his roots to the jets alive.  No one gave him the shlt fans do today for thinking his fiance had cancer and leaving to be with her.  

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Adding the 20.5 helps and gets him to ~40 career sacks. Gastineau had over 100.

People are remembering things the way they want to. Klecko was never a dominator like Gastineau.

 

20 1/2 sacks tells us otherwise but again I agree Gastineau was the better passrusher.  the problem is Gastineau was helped to be so great b/c of the presence of Klecko and again Gastineau only cared about sacks putting his D teammates in bad spots consistently.

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The NFL is not a nice place so I don't think Klecko's tax stuff (or lying) really hurts him. Lying isn't hurting the Patriots.

When 99 left his team in the lurch to become a boxer he burned every bridge he ever had. I don't think people cared that all he wanted was sacks. That's like every NFL player all they want is personal stats. It's that he left his teammates in a bad spot when they needed him most (and the Brigitte of it all)

he left the team b/c he failed a drug test noit b/c of the made up Brigitte Nielsen story.  That is why gastineau is never discussed w/ regards to the HOF. his career was inflated b/c of steroids(Joe's may have been too, many players used back then but Joe wasn't caught) .

[#27TheDominator]

28 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You just cant get it through your head that sack totals werent recorded early in his career, that Klecko injured his knee and Ive been saying pre knee all along, Klecko was moved inside and to the nose.  

 

It was early in both their careers.  Klecko came out in 1977, Gastineau in 1979.  Klecko wasn't even a real starter as a rookie and I think he was hurt.  I would bet that Gastineau lost more sacks than Klecko.

20 hours ago, bitonti said:

neither won a ring but Easley's resume is better. Saying otherwise is homerism. 

If not here, where?  If not now, when?

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

It was early in both their careers.  Klecko came out in 1977, Gastineau in 1979.  Klecko wasn't even a real starter as a rookie and I think he was hurt.  I would bet that Gastineau lost more sacks than Klecko.

If not here, where?  If not now, when?

Again, Ive said that Gastineau was the better sack artist.  My point was Klecko was the better all around player pre injuries

[bitonti]

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Again, Ive said that Gastineau was the better sack artist.  My point was Klecko was the better all around player pre injuries

I can buy that statement. He was defensive player of the year in 1981. But Klecko injured his knee in 1982 and played til 1988. Consistency and durability are also factors in HOF voting. Gastineau was defensive player of the year in 1982. 

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I can buy that statement. He was defensive player of the year in 1981. But Klecko injured his knee in 1982 and played til 1988. Consistency and durability are also factors in HOF voting. Gastineau was defensive player of the year in 1982. 

I agree, durability is huge.  Why I dont get those who shoo off a CMarts durability as if its commonplace

[rammagen]

On 8/6/2017 at 4:21 PM, bitonti said:

it's a very touchy subject around here to go against "Klecko belongs in the Hall" argument but I'm going to do it anyway.

Joe Klecko was an excellent player but he wasn't even the best pass rusher on his own team.

If Mark Gastineau had the human personality of Klecko HE'S the real Jets HOF'er from that era. The guy broke the sack record and invented the sack dance. 

99 was a POS as a person but an amazing athlete. 73 was a great person (tax stuff aside) but overall a mediocre athlete. And that's coming from a guy who wears both jerseys and i grew up with the Sack exchange. it's not the hall of underdogs who made good, it's not the hall of great, it's the hall of fame. It's a shame that 73 falls just short every time but I don't think the voters are wrong. He's an inpiration but he's not getting into the HOF. neither is Chrebet. The Jets team of that era didn't win anything of significance. 

 

I can see that point but Klecko was a mu7ch better athlete then you are giving hm credit for. He played multiple position on the dline. See the below comments from the people that blocked him. These are his peers.

While Klecko has been nominated for the Pro Football Hall of Fame several times, he has not been enshrined. Hall of Fame center Dwight Stephenson, in describing Klecko as a "great defensive lineman", considered him one of the two best interior linemen he had ever faced.^[6] Hall of Fame tackle Anthony Muñoz said about Klecko, "In my 13 seasons, Joe is right there at the top of the defensive ends I had to block, up there with Fred Dean, Lee Roy Selmon and Bruce Smith. Joe was the strongest guy I ever faced. He had perfect technique — hands in tight, great leverage. My second year, 1981, we went to Shea and beat the Jets, 31-30, but he was such an intense, smart player, I knew I was in a battle. He was the leader, the guy who kept that unit together."^[7]

Hall of Fame guard Joe DeLamielleure added that "You can’t think of his ten year period without him. I had to block Joe Greene and Merlin Olsen when I was playing and, believe me, Joe Klecko was equal to those two guys. If Joe Klecko had played one position for ten years, he’d have been considered one of the top two or three players at that position, whichever one it was. There’s not another player who went to the Pro Bowl at three different positions. You take a defensive end and put him at nose tackle and he’s just as good there, that’s a great player. We need to get Joe Klecko in the Hall of Fame."^[7]

[Jetfan13]

On 8/6/2017 at 0:06 PM, Jet Nut said:

Not really.  

Klecko caught a lot of grief for being convicted of perjury in a insurance fraud case and ruined his chances.  Hurt him more than getting shlt on for being a Jet.  

Guess he should have been a crack addict, pedofile instead like LT, than he would have been in years ago.

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, Jetfan13 said:

Guess he should have been a crack addict, pedofile instead like LT, than he would have been in years ago.

Agree, its wrong.  There are a lot of bad guys i the HOF and Klecko even with his conviction isnt a bad guy

[nyjunc]

7 hours ago, Jetfan13 said:

Guess he should have been a crack addict, pedofile instead like LT, than he would have been in years ago.

LT is the greatest defensive player of all time, he's a bad human being but the Hall should be about play on the field.  In a perfect world Joe wouldn't even be discussed, not that he wasn't great but the Hall should only be for the best of the best of the best. The LTs, Ronnie Lott's, Dan Marino's, Anthony Munoz's, etc... but through the years they let good, not great, players in or players who weren't all time greats.  Before I get bashed for Namath I believe he does belong not for his play on the field but for what he meant to the growth of the game so there are exceptions but guys like Lynn Swann, Jason Taylor, etc... were very good players but not all time greats and you should have to be an all time great to make it. I find it amazing that Eli Manning is being discussed as a HOFer, it's beyond ridiculous. by these standards Klecko belongs and I think he eventually makes it.

[Jetfan13]

58 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

LT is the greatest defensive player of all time, he's a bad human being but the Hall should be about play on the field.  In a perfect world Joe wouldn't even be discussed, not that he wasn't great but the Hall should only be for the best of the best of the best. The LTs, Ronnie Lott's, Dan Marino's, Anthony Munoz's, etc... but through the years they let good, not great, players in or players who weren't all time greats.  Before I get bashed for Namath I believe he does belong not for his play on the field but for what he meant to the growth of the game so there are exceptions but guys like Lynn Swann, Jason Taylor, etc... were very good players but not all time greats and you should have to be an all time great to make it. I find it amazing that Eli Manning is being discussed as a HOFer, it's beyond ridiculous. by these standards Klecko belongs and I think he eventually makes it.

Klecko was the 1st guy to make all-pro at 3 different DL  positions. HE IS THE BEST OF THE BEST!

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, Jetfan13 said:

Klecko was the 1st guy to make all-pro at 3 different DL  positions. HE IS THE BEST OF THE BEST!

he didn't make all pro at 3 different positions, he made the pro bowl at 3 different positions.  that is very different.  when I am talking best of the best I mean the guys that are in the running for best of all time, again the LT types, the Johnny Unitas types, etc...  Joe doesn't fit in that category BUT w/ the guys they have let in he does belong.