Jets Will Boast Historic Youth Movement, Ready for Roller Coaster Ride

[Jetsfan80]

On 9/3/2021 at 10:27 AM, Beerfish said:

26 for 49 for 270 yards and 2 ints and a total of 9 points is awful for patrick mahommes with the weapons available.

 

Of course it is.  But it isn’t a good enough argument to suggest Mahomes was the biggest problem that day, or that a QB isn’t by far the most important factor in whether a team can contend or not.  

[Maynard13]

14 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Bit of an anomaly performance for Mahomes, no?  Basically his entire OL was injured.

A lot of teams have excellent QBs, so yes, you need to build a team around the QB, too, which I believe Douglas appears to be doing at least fairly well so far.  But you have to have that QB first so this year is all about hoping and praying Wilson looks like he can be “the guy”.  If he’s not, we’re f**led until we find a QB, as usual.  

Hi

[phill1c]

32 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

But you have to have that QB first

No, you have to have that QB last. or close to last. Having a great QB getting brutalized just ruins them. See Sam Darnold...and countless others.

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, phill1c said:

No, you have to have that QB last. or close to last. Having a great QB getting brutalized just ruins them. See Sam Darnold...and countless others.

Sam Darnold was terrible at football long before that, and his OL didn’t fail him.  He failed his OL and held onto the ball for forever, which resulted in at least one of his injuries.

Very few QBs have actually been “ruined” by bad OL play.  And our OL as currently constructed looks pretty good to me. 

And in any case you can’t wait for your roster to be “fixed” before taking your QB.  The Chargers had the # 32 ranked OL but it didn’t stop Herbert from posting arguably the greatest rookie season ever by a QB.  Using your blueprint they never should have taken Herbert because the roster wasn’t ready.  

[phill1c]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Sam Darnold was terrible at football long before that, and his OL didn’t fail him.  He failed his OL and held onto the ball for forever, which resulted in at least one of his injuries.

Very few QBs have actually been “ruined” by bad OL play.  And our OL as currently constructed looks pretty good to me. 

And in any case you can’t wait for your roster to be “fixed” before taking your QB.  The Chargers had the # 32 ranked OL but it didn’t stop Herbert from posting arguably the greatest rookie season ever by a QB.  Using your blueprint they never should have taken Herbert because the roster wasn’t ready.  

"Very few QBs have actually been “ruined” by bad OL play..." I mean, clearly you haven't been a Jets fan very long. The list of JETS QBs ruined by OL include Joe Namath, Ken OBrien, Mark Sanchez, Geno Smith, and Sam Darnold. I'm not saying that all of these QBs were ruined solely by bad OL play. But name a QB who has thrived behind a sh!tty OL. I know of none...

 

"very few QBs..." gethef*ckouttaheah. that's the main cause of QBs being ruined, taking too many hits. 

[Jetsfan80]

53 minutes ago, phill1c said:

"Very few QBs have actually been “ruined” by bad OL play..." I mean, clearly you haven't been a Jets fan very long. The list of JETS QBs ruined by OL include Joe Namath, Ken OBrien, Mark Sanchez, Geno Smith, and Sam Darnold. I'm not saying that all of these QBs were ruined solely by bad OL play. But name a QB who has thrived behind a sh!tty OL. I know of none...

 

"very few QBs..." gethef*ckouttaheah. that's the main cause of QBs being ruined, taking too many hits. 

None of those QBs were ruined by bad OL play except perhaps O’Brien.  And deep drop backs were part of the game for all QBs back then.  Lots of guys got crushed simply in the act of airing it out.  That’s a product of the game itself, not necessarily the OL.

Sanchez?  Lmao.  He had the game’s best OL his first 2 years and he still sucked both those years.  His career sucked because he sucked. 

[phill1c]

On 9/4/2021 at 7:59 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

None of those QBs were ruined by bad OL play except perhaps O’Brien.  And deep drop backs were part of the game for all QBs back then.  Lots of guys got crushed simply in the act of airing it out.  That’s a product of the game itself, not necessarily the OL.

Sanchez?  Lmao.  He had the game’s best OL his first 2 years and he still sucked both those years.  His career sucked because he sucked. 

Right, he sucked so bad they went to the AFC Championship game AND he had better ratings than ALL of the QBs he faced those years. One can look at Darnold now and see how much the putrid OL the Jets had made him look like sh!t. I'm no Darnold fan--he seems dumb and mechanical, but has physical skills--but the OL the Jets had ruined him. Just like it ruined others, through injury, through being scared of getting hit (after being hit too many times). But, I understand if you disagree.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, phill1c said:

Right, he sucked so bad they went to the AFC Championship game AND he had better ratings than ALL of the QBs he faced those years. One can look at Darnold now and see how much the putrid OL the Jets had made him look like sh!t. I'm no Darnold fan--he seems dumb and mechanical, but has physical skills--but the OL the Jets had ruined him. Just like it ruined others, through injury, through being scared of getting hit (after being hit too many times). But, I understand if you disagree.

And then what happened?

He was the weakest link of the team from 2009-10 and went on to suck the rest of his career, including 4 other franchises post-Jets.

It's like Jets fans don't watch other QB's play or anything.  Or perhaps they're so used to bad QB play here that even a modicum of success gets raved about years later.  Joe Flacco won a Super Bowl once, too.  With an 11 TD and 0 INT postseason, no less.  Yet most acknowledge he pretty much sucks, no?  So why do bad Jets QB's get special treatment from Jets fans? 

I don't know about you but I'm tired of making excuses for bad QB's every single season.  Hopefully Wilson is so good we don't have to make excuses for him.

[Sports-Journalism101]

1 hour ago, phill1c said:

Right, he sucked so bad they went to the AFC Championship game AND he had better ratings than ALL of the QBs he faced those years. One can look at Darnold now and see how much the putrid OL the Jets had made him look like sh!t. I'm no Darnold fan--he seems dumb and mechanical, but has physical skills--but the OL the Jets had ruined him. Just like it ruined others, through injury, through being scared of getting hit (after being hit too many times). But, I understand if you disagree.

I find your analysis a bit unorganized, so I am trying to separate several distinct points to comprehend them better and then I offer my responses.  

1.  The Merits of Mark Sanchez as a NFL Quarterback:  Mark Sanchez should be viewed as an above average Starting Quarterback in the NFL because: (1) he was statistically effective when he had a good offensive line and (2) the New York Jets won games with his as the Starting Quarterback during his first two years. 

Counterpoint:  I do not know if the first point actually bears out in the statistics as Mark Sanchez always had sub-60% accuracy during his tenure as the Starting Quarterback for the New York Jets and tended to throw nearly as many interceptions as he threw touchdowns.  There is a meaningful argument to be made that Ryan Fitzpatrick is a more accomplished Starting Quarterback in light of his individual performance.  Fundamentally, both Ryan Fitzpatrick and Mark Sanchez suffer from excessive tendency to be a gunslinger, but Ryan Fitzpatrick has generated better statistics when it worked for him.  Accordingly, the strength of the New York Jets Offensive Line circa 2005-2011 does not prove the contrapositive of the point you are attempting to debunk -- i.e., you have not disproven that Offensive Line play rarely ruins Quarterbacks by proving that Offensive Line play makes Quarterbacks.  

 

2.  Whether Offensive Line Play Ruined Sam Darnold as a NFL Quarterback:  Sam Darnold was statistically ineffective and played worse as a third year player than he did as a rookie because of the failings of the New York Jets Offensive Line.

Counterpoint:  A review of Sam Darnold's play as the Starting Quarterback for the University of Southern California Trojans reveals that he had several tendencies that would not serve him well as a Starting Quarterback for a NFL team.  Among other things, he held on to the ball for a long time and needed to see open receivers before he released the ball.  He also tended to play hero ball and run around less athletic defenders to buy himself more time with the hopes that there would be a broken play.  These problems surfaced during his tenure with the New York Jets, and only became catastrophic during his third year based on statistical likelihood.  His attempts to hold onto the ball and play hero ball were bound to result in poor play absent lucky breaks.  When Sam Darnold has performed well it was against less-than-stellar talent and even then required a bit of luck.  Accordingly, Sam Darnold's failure as a Starting QB during his tenure with the New York Jets is more attributable to his lack of development in fundamentals, ability to read the field, and failures to come up with a workable gameplan that masked those flaws.  To the extent he is viewed as successful with the Carolina Panthers it is likely going to be the result of adequate gameplanning to mask his flaws and a focus on developing more sound fundamentals and perhaps the ability to lean on CMC as a safety net.  

[kevinc855]

This post may not age well