lawngnome o-line Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060523/SPORTS0101/605230307/1126 Lions and Wilkinson end relationship Move to release nose tackle is not a surprise; Marinelli looks to Cody as likely replacement. Mike O'Hara / The Detroit News ALLEN PARK -- The Lions ended their waiting game with Dan Wilkinson by moving on without him. The Lions released Wilkinson on Monday after several weeks of discussions resulted in no commitment from Wilkinson to continue playing for them or any indication of when he would join the team to begin working out. The result was not a surprise. Coach Rod Marinelli is setting a tone of discipline while turning the defense over to young players, including the nose tackle, Wilkinson's position for three seasons on the Lions' defensive line. Shaun Cody, a second-round draft pick from Southern California in 2005, is in line to take Wilkinson's starting job next to Shaun Rogers. "We've got those really good young players," Marinelli said. "It's life in the NFL." Marinelli is particularly high on Cody from watching tapes of last season's games and seeing him in the offseason workouts. "He's a mobile, young guy -- strong and physical," Marinelli said. Wilkinson played well at nose tackle, a crucial position on the defensive line, after signing with the Lions on Aug. 17, 2003. At the time, Wilkinson was a free agent after being released by the Washington Redskins. Wilkinson had become unhappy with his situation in Washington, and there were acrimonious negotiations in the offseason because of management's desire for him to take a substantial pay cut. There were no hard feelings in Wilkinson's departure from the Lions. Marinelli and Wilkinson are at a stage where their agendas and expectations do not match. Wilkinson has not taken part in any offseason workouts. Team president Matt Millen has spoken with Wilkinson infrequently in the offseason. They talked again last week. When a resolution was no closer, Millen agreed to release Wilkinson. Millen said he talked with teams about trading Wilkinson but couldn't find any takers. "I've been talking to Dan quite a bit," Millen said. "Dan was sorting through some things we talked about before. He was talking about retiring, talking about playing. "Dan was great for us. He played tough all the time. He was good in the locker room. He did everything we asked. We just kind of reached a decision to move on. He's a busy guy. He's got a lot of things going on on the outside." Millen said Wilkinson said he would like to keep playing. In that case, why not in Detroit, where he was popular and respected by his teammates? "That's a good question," Millen said. There was no comment from Wilkinson. Wilkinson was due to make $2.4 million in base salary in 2006 in the last year of a four-year contract. That money can be used to pursue other free agents, if any players become available who might interest the Lions. There has been speculation in Oakland that the Raiders might part company with Warren Sapp, who had a strong relationship with Marinelli with the Buccaneers. Wilkinson, 33, has played 12 pro seasons. He lives in the Washington area and has successful business interests away from football. The defensive line will have a new look in 2006, even with many players returning. The tackles have been shuffled. Marcus Bell has been a backup nose tackle the last two seasons, but two veteran free agents were signed -- Tyoka Jackson and Damian Gregory. Both played for Tampa Bay when Marinelli coached the defensive line. There were many in the NFL who were skeptical when the Lions signed Wilkinson to a four-year contract late in training camp in 2003. The 2002 season, his last in Washington, had been his least effective. Wilkinson had missed just three games in his previous eight seasons, but a calf injury reduced his effectiveness in 2002. He played in 12 games, starting four, and finished the season on injured reserve. Wilkinson had a career-low 12 tackles and was held without a sack for the only time in his career. He fit in immediately in Detroit. He was quick and commanded enough attention inside to open the way for Rogers to emerge as one of the league's top tackles. Rogers has made the Pro Bowl the last two seasons and credited Wilkinson with his success. Wilkinson has played in 185 games, with 182 starts. Cincinnati drafted him first overall in 1994 out of Ohio State. He signed with Washington as a free agent in 1998. Thoughts??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 bigger bust than bryan thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehands Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 bigger bust than bryan thomas. A little different, Big Daddy was the first overall pick in the draft. Thomas went in the middle of the first round. I would agree if you replaced BT with DFat, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 all due respect but i don't think you guys really know what a bust is. Demetrius Underwood is a bust. Curtis Enis is a bust. Ryan Leaf is a bust. Players who draw an NFL paycheck and start for a decade are not busts. There is a big difference between being a bust and not living up to expectations. Would you call Vinny Testaverde a bust? he threw for 40,000 yards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 all due respect but i don't think you guys really know what a bust is. Demetrius Underwood is a bust. Curtis Enis is a bust. Ryan Leaf is a bust. Players who draw an NFL paycheck and start for a decade are not busts. There is a big difference between being a bust and not living up to expectations. Would you call Vinny Testaverde a bust? he threw for 40,000 yards... So, if you give up a ton (just for arguements sake, say two 1st's and a 4th) for a player and he does not play up to his lofty expectations, then he is not considered a bust? What happens if you could get the same results from a 5th or 6th round draft pick? It's still not considered a bust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 So, if you give up a ton (just for arguements sake, say two 1st's and a 4th) for a player and he does not play up to his lofty expectations, then he is not considered a bust?? hahahahhahahahahah damn you TX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 So, if you give up a ton (just for arguements sake, say two 1st's and a 4th) for a player and he does not play up to his lofty expectations, then he is not considered a bust? What happens if you could get the same results from a 5th or 6th round draft pick? It's still not considered a bust? ALan Harper was a 4th round draft pick let's be honest the best DT in the league by and large were high picks. Also Drob is 24 so to even have this conversation is premature. still i asked first would you call Vinny T a bust? The guy was #1 overall pick and heisman trophy winner - definately did not live up to hype. people talk about the two firsts and a fourth like it's gold bullion. off the top of my head it was like 13, 24 and 100 whatever. Ty Warren, Rex Grossman and Ian Scott. Call me crazy i'd rather have D_Rob and the potential of that player over those three guys. cmon Grossman could be at least a winner... Ian Scott and Warren have shown flashes but haven't even been awarded AFC D_POTW. or are you gonna say that the Jets should have drafted some great player in hindsight? the draft is an easy exercise from hindsight... not to mention some high Jets draft picks like Hugh Douglas and James Farrior didn't really bloom until they left town... Jets fans are notoriously short on memory and maybe that's a good thing. But how many of us have called players like Ellis and Santana Moss bust right before they had "breakout" years? I know I have! Ill never forget my first posts on JI about 5 years ago were to bash Chad Pennington as a bust! Bob or TMac might remember people called me a spammer! In the time since then I have since been forced to eat crow and then be proven right and now possibly eat crow again all on the question is this player a bust? This is the scale I've been playing with this year : ---- Bust negative -100 (no actual players in triple digits but Blair Thomas, Demitrius Underwood or Ryan Leaf would maybe be -99) the PS or injured reserve below zero *** everyone in between the water line for draft picks is probably special teams *** Boom positive 100 (Lawrence Taylor, Joe Montana etc.) ----- The reason why I've been thinking about bust and boom as negatives and positives is because a failed draft pick is a negative drag effect on the franchise. All truly great busts are top picks - you are right if a player in the 5th round busts out well who cares it's a cheap ticket - it still hurts. This same concept is somewhat accomplished by having a scale 0-100 and only using half of it (pass/fail) but what's the point of having half a scale that no one uses? If a player was negative everyone knows about it. but if you draft Tom Brady in the late rounds maybe that's a 99 (granted Brady is an vastly overused example in draft talk due to the powerball-like aspects of pulling that one off) with this scale I'd grade the following Jets or ex Jets note that these are all grades in progress based on current career status and all were drafted by the Jets. J Farrior 92 J Vilma 87 S Moss 84 L Coles 82 J Abraham 81 S Ellis 78 K Mackensie 75 L Jordan 68 B Thomas 67 D Robinson 63 K Rhodes 62 K Brady 61 A Jones 60 M Nugent 59 J_miller 53 Chadwick Pennington 51 C Houston 42 D McClover 34 S Pouha 21 M Cavka 14 BJ Askew 8 Brooks Bollinger 4 . . . Dave Yovanovitz (-21) Matt Walters (-27) Jon Mcgraw (-35) Derek Pagel (-43) Alan Harper (-56) JP Machado (-58) Jamie Henderson (-60) Scott Frost (-67) David Loverne (-73) Dorian Boose (-86) Rick Terry (-88) Blair Thomas (-99) some might say it's an arbitrary exercise but note that Jets fans have to go back to 1998 and 1999 before the names really start to get ugly. BRadway couldn't run a team but he can run a draft for the most part. His worst pick was CB Jamie Henderson who they seemed to plan to depend on - what a chucklehead. But he's no Rick Terry... who's no Blair Thomas! early proj: DBrick - early seventies with upside - Mangold could also start out in the same neighborhood - Tangini's first crop draft picks look promising. as for Drob about at his number or so... say he's a 63 out of 100 Better than average with upside. not a bust in my eyes. You have your opinions and that's great but let's be realistic it's about contribution to the team A question i have had does the multiplier effect come in for hitting big on later round picks? It can be argued that in the salary cap era being the #1 overall team is in some ways harder to draft b/c there's more at stake. So that issue tends to balance out in my view. as for Vinchenzo he wasn't drafted by the Jets but he's probably above 50 on my scale, due to his sheer stats TDs and Victories. Martin and Mawae are high eighties early ninties unless they win a ring or break the all time record in something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 ALan Harper was a 4th round draft pick let's be honest the best DT in the league by and large were high picks. Also Drob is 24 so to even have this conversation is premature. still i asked first would you call Vinny T a bust? The guy was #1 overall pick and heisman trophy winner - definately did not live up to hype. people talk about the two firsts and a fourth like it's gold bullion. off the top of my head it was like 13, 24 and 100 whatever. Ty Warren, Rex Grossman and Ian Scott. Call me crazy i'd rather have D_Rob and the potential of that player over those three guys. cmon Grossman could be at least a winner... Ian Scott and Warren have shown flashes but haven't even been awarded AFC D_POTW. or are you gonna say that the Jets should have drafted some great player in hindsight? the draft is an easy exercise from hindsight... not to mention some high Jets draft picks like Hugh Douglas and James Farrior didn't really bloom until they left town... Jets fans are notoriously short on memory and maybe that's a good thing. But how many of us have called players like Ellis and Santana Moss bust right before they had "breakout" years? I know I have! Ill never forget my first posts on JI about 5 years ago were to bash Chad Pennington as a bust! Bob or TMac might remember people called me a spammer! In the time since then I have since been forced to eat crow and then be proven right and now possibly eat crow again all on the question is this player a bust? This is the scale I've been playing with this year : ---- Bust negative -100 (no actual players in triple digits but Blair Thomas, Demitrius Underwood or Ryan Leaf would maybe be -99) the PS or injured reserve below zero *** everyone in between the water line for draft picks is probably special teams *** Boom positive 100 (Lawrence Taylor, Joe Montana etc.) ----- The reason why I've been thinking about bust and boom as negatives and positives is because a failed draft pick is a negative drag effect on the franchise. All truly great busts are top picks - you are right if a player in the 5th round busts out well who cares it's a cheap ticket - it still hurts. This same concept is somewhat accomplished by having a scale 0-100 and only using half of it (pass/fail) but what's the point of having half a scale that no one uses? If a player was negative everyone knows about it. but if you draft Tom Brady in the late rounds maybe that's a 99 (granted Brady is an vastly overused example in draft talk due to the powerball-like aspects of pulling that one off) with this scale I'd grade the following Jets or ex Jets note that these are all grades in progress based on current career status and all were drafted by the Jets. J Farrior 92 J Vilma 87 S Moss 84 L Coles 82 J Abraham 81 S Ellis 78 K Mackensie 75 L Jordan 68 B Thomas 67 D Robinson 63 K Rhodes 62 K Brady 61 A Jones 60 M Nugent 59 J_miller 53 Chadwick Pennington 51 C Houston 42 D McClover 34 S Pouha 21 M Cavka 14 BJ Askew 8 Brooks Bollinger 4 . . . Dave Yovanovitz (-21) Matt Walters (-27) Jon Mcgraw (-35) Derek Pagel (-43) Alan Harper (-56) JP Machado (-58) Jamie Henderson (-60) Scott Frost (-67) David Loverne (-73) Dorian Boose (-86) Rick Terry (-88) Blair Thomas (-99) some might say it's an arbitrary exercise but note that Jets fans have to go back to 1998 and 1999 before the names really start to get ugly. BRadway couldn't run a team but he can run a draft for the most part. His worst pick was CB Jamie Henderson who they seemed to plan to depend on - what a chucklehead. But he's no Rick Terry... who's no Blair Thomas! early proj: DBrick - early seventies with upside - Mangold could also start out in the same neighborhood - Tangini's first crop draft picks look promising. as for Drob about at his number or so... say he's a 63 out of 100 Better than average with upside. not a bust in my eyes. You have your opinions and that's great but let's be realistic it's about contribution to the team A question i have had does the multiplier effect come in for hitting big on later round picks? It can be argued that in the salary cap era being the #1 overall team is in some ways harder to draft b/c there's more at stake. So that issue tends to balance out in my view. as for Vinchenzo he wasn't drafted by the Jets but he's probably above 50 on my scale, due to his sheer stats TDs and Victories. Martin and Mawae are high eighties early ninties unless they win a ring or break the all time record in something. Damn bit, I actually agreed 100% with your initial post. There is a huge difference from a "bust" versus a "value underachiever". DFat is not a bust. I just like to get a rise out of Jet fans, and especially you, when I call him one. BTW, did Hammer and YJF help you pen the short retort? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shutout Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 (just for arguements sake, say two 1st's and a 4th) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickkotite Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Bit is right. the term "bust" is over used. there are guys who live up to their expectation, guys who dont meet the expectations, and then busts who are out of the league. DW started for a decade. he is average, but still a player and therefore not a bust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachTsurfing Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Yeah, I agree, Dan had a decent career. Great post bitonti. I think DRob will bounce back this year. I think it is too early to tell if he is a bust or just an average player. In all likely hood he will be like a Dan Wilkerson. Nothing great but definately not a bust. Do I think we over paid for him. Hell yeah, the Jets bought into the hype and I'm so glad we didn't do that this year. So with the picks we had who knows what kind of crap players we would have reached for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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