Sperm Edwards Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 Those two players still have stuff left in them. If that game on Friday night showed us anything, it would have been nice to have Curtis in there to RUN and to BLOCK. BZ Clearly you & I will not agree on this. I think they're both useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Clearly you & I will not agree on this. I think they're both useless. We can add that to the long list. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 We can add that to the long list. BZ Yes we can. Go Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Yes, on third and 15 we can run a draw to Martin that he gets 7 yards on, thus boosting his average. No thanks, I've had enough of that in my lifetime. Martin is kind of like Herm, except Martin is actually a good guy. He's a product of media hype and using smoke and mirrors to cover up for his very real weaknesses. You take everything away, and he's a mediocre to weak RB. Every season is a new one, so how does it help you if the guy had 10 straight 1000 yard seasons in his 11th season? It doesn't, at all. I'd rather have a guy that just dominates the league for 2 or 3 years and gets me a Super Bowl, rather than a guy that is consistently mediocre. This is the problem with Jets fans, they're so busy hyping up their own players and tearing each other apart for disagreeing that we can never truly build a winner. We finally have a staff that looks like it can ignore the fans and the media, and make the hard decisions. Hopefully the losing culture will change. I think Jets fans have the most heart of any fans for any sport, but we're not always the most intelligent especially on our own players. We need someone like Tangini to make the cold hard smart decisions, while we continue thinking with our hearts. yes, exactly, pad martin's stats. I was actually refering to the ability to block a safety that is coming to knock _______ _______ (instert your own jet qb here) head off. Clearly Houston can't do it, I"m betting that DB can't do it either. As for Martin's career being average? Nice try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cant Hackett Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Keep in mind if nothing else martin can be a 3rd down back. Thats a expensive 3rd down back. Blaylock and Washington at this point are 3rd down backs. Its CMart time to ride off into the sunset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 Martin sure looked great picking up the blitz at the end of the San Diego game just last year. Bollinger almost got killed as Martin whiffed his man (oh - and we didn't get in the endzone). Martin is probably a decent blocker for a HB, but he's as overrated in this regard as he is in all aspects of his game. His "classy" personality gets him more credit than he deserves. 4.0 yards per carry. That would've been elite on the 2005 Cardinals. He played with good enough OL's and good enough QB's to average more than that if he was "elite" or even close to it. serphnx has it dead-on: I'd rather have a guy that just dominates the league for 2 or 3 years and gets me a Super Bowl, rather than a guy that is consistently mediocre. 4.0 ypc is the minimum threshold of acceptability, not the benchmark of greatness. And for the majority of his tenure with the Jets, that stat was padded by draw plays on obvious passing downs (where we ended up punting >90% of the time anyway). If he was on an offense that didn't do that consistently, he'd be closer to 3.5 ypc in that same span. Thats a expensive 3rd down back. Blaylock and Washington at this point are 3rd down backs. Its CMart time to ride off into the sunset. And one who doesn't even play special teams at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cant Hackett Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 If it was reported this afternoon that Chad was out for the season, I wasn't going to be upset. Clemens is the future of the Jets, sooner he plays the better. The fact that we wouldn't take a bigger cap hit on the incentives would of be a "bonus" I guess it looks like I'm in bed with Sperm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Martin sure looked great picking up the blitz at the end of the San Diego game just last year. Bollinger almost got killed as Martin whiffed his man (oh - and we didn't get in the endzone). Martin is probably a decent blocker for a HB, but he's as overrated in this regard as he is in all aspects of his game. His "classy" personality gets him more credit than he deserves. So you found a game that Martin missed a block? Good for you in a long career like that. The facts are he was always a great blocker and picked up the blitz very well. You can spin/mod/spin all you want, but I rather have a healthy Curtis back there now than the three we do. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 It just stuck in my mind because it was recent. If Martin was healthy & wasn't such a strain on our cap for so little "playmaking" then I'd rather have him too. Particularly if it wouldn't put off the inevitable hit to a year (or two) when we're serious contenders instead of 2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 It just stuck in my mind because it was recent. If Martin was healthy & wasn't such a strain on our cap for so little "playmaking" then I'd rather have him too. Particularly if it wouldn't put off the inevitable hit to a year (or two) when we're serious contenders instead of 2006. Martin restructured his contract when asked to. Martin told Mangini to get a RB in the draft. Martin is working his ass off to come back. For that, we should cut him when he is STILL the best back we have? Yeah, makes lots of sense. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 Martin restructured his contract when asked to. Martin told Mangini to get a RB in the draft. Martin is working his ass off to come back. For that, we should cut him when he is STILL the best back we have? Yeah, makes lots of sense. BZ Even the most optimistic of fans sees us falling short of a superbowl this year. So to replace Martin's future dead cap # with a player who will contribute when it's realistic does make a lot of sense. Keeping Martin here so we can watch him plod along in 2006, & then being one player short (or having a $1M player instead of a $4M player) in a contending year, is what makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Even the most optimistic of fans sees us falling short of a superbowl this year. So to replace Martin's future dead cap # with a player who will contribute when it's realistic does make a lot of sense. Keeping Martin here so we can watch him plod along in 2006, & then being one player short (or having a $1M player instead of a $4M player) in a contending year, is what makes no sense. Every year can be the year and counting this year as a non-competitive year (meaning, you don't think we can win the Super Bowl) just makes no sense. If Curtis comes back week 6 and helps this team win and get into the playoffs, it is worth it. Besides, the Jets are not in cap room hell at this point but do need a healthy RB in Curtis. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 Every year can be the year and counting this year as a non-competitive year (meaning, you don't think we can win the Super Bowl) just makes no sense. If Curtis comes back week 6 and helps this team win and get into the playoffs, it is worth it. Besides, the Jets are not in cap room hell at this point but do need a healthy RB in Curtis. BZ Jets having some extra cap space this year, when there are little/no desirable FA's out there, is precisely the time to take some cap hit & cut ties with players who are not part of our future. Unless someone can demonstrate how Martin running into a wall of defense is going to net us any more yards than Houston (who is bigger, stronger, and faster anyway), this is absurd. Martin has been paid more than any RB in the history of the NFL. We owe him nothing; least of all the retardation of the younger guys' maturation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Cap #s aside for one minute (yeah I know you can't do that in today's NFL). Curtis is the ONLY Hall Of Famer this franchise will see for awhile. So if he wants to hang around for a few more years as a backup and we have to overpay somewhat to have that happen, I have no problem with that. I wanted the Jets to draft Lendale White. And let him hang with Curtis for 2 years. I think you would have had a pretty impressive back when all was said and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 Cap #s aside for one minute (yeah I know you can't do that in today's NFL). Curtis is the ONLY Hall Of Famer this franchise will see for awhile. So if he wants to hang around for a few more years as a backup and we have to overpay somewhat to have that happen, I have no problem with that. I wanted the Jets to draft Lendale White. And let him hang with Curtis for 2 years. I think you would have had a pretty impressive back when all was said and done. Didn't White already spit on a veteran through the facemask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT STALKER Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Didn't White already spit on a veteran through the facemask? That was one of those really hot days and Lendale was just cooling him off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 if Chad hits those accelerators it's a problem we will like to have - because that means he finally made it through one full season - and it's possible the Jets might actually *GASP* be winning a few games. That's the problem, people like to say "ok 2006 is a writeoff year let's do X Y Z so we can be beteter for 2007 and beyond" That's not the way it works. There is no such thing as rebuilding in the NFL only reloading. The only thing "rebuilding" guaruntees is a culture of losing. every year some team comes out of nowhere to become a contender even though they were pegged as a sure fire last place team in the preseason. Every single year it happens the question isn't will it but which team will it be? Believe it or not it could be the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Of Bavaria Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 FIRE ERIC MANGINI!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT STALKER Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 if Chad hits those accelerators it's a problem we will like to have - because that means he finally made it through one full season - and it's possible the Jets might actually *GASP* be winning a few games. That's the problem, people like to say "ok 2006 is a writeoff year let's do X Y Z so we can be beteter for 2007 and beyond" That's not the way it works. There is no such thing as rebuilding in the NFL only reloading. The only thing "rebuilding" guaruntees is a culture of losing. every year some team comes out of nowhere to become a contender even though they were pegged as a sure fire last place team in the preseason. Every single year it happens the question isn't will it but which team will it be? Believe it or not it could be the Jets. I would think first year HC's get a little bit of a pass...especially if it's their first gig like Mangini. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 haha wow how old are you? 12? you are obvisously missing the point. good thing your not running our team, because judging by the two things you suggested you would want to get rid of our best QB and cut arguably the 2nd best jet ever. you are not seriously arguing that the Jets keep a washed up RB who cant help the team becasue he was 2nd best Jet ever? Stay away from my 401 account, you would have me investing in Jimmy Carter memorabilia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT STALKER Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 you are not seriously arguing that the Jets keep a washed up RB who cant help the team becasue he was 2nd best Jet ever? Stay away from my 401 account, you would have me investing in Jimmy Carter memorabilia Hey, I have about 3 cases of Billy Beer in the attic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Hey, I have about 3 cases of Billy Beer in the attic. exactly, in the attic, not in the fridge,, time to put CM in the attic and bring him out on old timers day to honor him,,but part of active team,,sorry Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 I would think first year HC's get a little bit of a pass...especially if it's their first gig like Mangini. everything Mangini has done since he got here has left the impression he is planning to win right away - not 3 years from now - right away - there are no free passes in the NFL, certainly none in the NY media market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 Why do people assume that rebuilding means not trying to win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Why do people assume that rebuilding means not trying to win? spot on,, the BEST way to win in LONG RUN is to REBUILD without worrying about a bad year or two,, its the old Penny wise Dollar foolish syndrome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Why do people assume that rebuilding means not trying to win? Because that is the context it is used in. As in "Why waste our cap money on some player who can help this year, when we are rebuilding for years to come". Of course rebuilding teams try to win, but the idea of rebuilding is not to get caught up on this year and that is the mistake. Good teams are consistantly good and don't rebuild, but modify. Injuries and free agency makes any 3-5 year rebuilding useless. Rebuild in the offseason via trades, drafts and free agency. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 Because that is the context it is used in. As in "Why waste our cap money on some player who can help this year, when we are rebuilding for years to come". Of course rebuilding teams try to win, but the idea of rebuilding is not to get caught up on this year and that is the mistake. Good teams are consistantly good and don't rebuild, but modify. Injuries and free agency makes any 3-5 year rebuilding useless. Rebuild in the offseason via trades, drafts and free agency. BZ Certainly at this point in their respective careers, I just don't see Chad Pennington's 3-yard dumpoffs & Curtis Martin's 3-yard carries as the recipes for winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Certainly at this point in their respective careers, I just don't see Chad Pennington's 3-yard dumpoffs & Curtis Martin's 3-yard carries as the recipes for winning. Well those 3 yard dump offs and 3 yard carries were good enough to win in the post season two years ago. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 Well those 3 yard dump offs and 3 yard carries were good enough to win in the post season two years ago. BZ Dink-and-dunking did not win the game for us. Attacking & keeping LT2 in check did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Dink-and-dunking did not win the game for us. Attacking & keeping LT2 in check did. Must have been Herm. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Why do people assume that rebuilding means not trying to win? if for example the Jets decide that Houston and Clemens should start so they get better for 2007 and beyong - even though Martin and Chad are actually better options today - that's not trying to win in the short term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 if for example the Jets decide that Houston and Clemens should start so they get better for 2007 and beyong - even though Martin and Chad are actually better options today - that's not trying to win in the short term Martin at 33 with a bum knee is not a clear-cut better option today. I saw nothing in that game that would lead me to believe that Martin would've performed any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Martin at 33 with a bum knee is not a clear-cut better option today. I saw nothing in that game that would lead me to believe that Martin would've performed any better. You must not have watched Cedric and Derrick run. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 I did. Cedric looked fine. Martin looks equally bad or worse (since he has less power) when there are no holes. I've heard that excuse for Martin endlessly over the years. Of course it only applies to him. When there are no holes for Curtis, it was an impossible situation. When there are no holes for anyone in Martin's place, they suck. Do I have that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cant Hackett Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 if for example the Jets decide that Houston and Clemens should start so they get better for 2007 and beyong - even though Martin and Chad are actually better options today - that's not trying to win in the short term Starting Houston and Clemens would be best way to win in the short term. Plus we have a better idea of needs if any for next years draft at RB & QB and we wouldn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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