Recession

[Jet Moses]

I think you have it down pat. Your analysis seems to be the most logical. I've always thought he was in his early early 20's based on the maturity level.

Absolutely. You don't have to be Horatio Caine to figure out that a thirty year old who did "multiple tours of Iraq" and passed the bar would post this tripe

Whose fault is it that we are in so much debt? Which group of people is obsessed with cuttting taxes and cutting interest rates?

More like a jackass in his 2nd year of college.

[Green DNA]

National debt is not entirely a bad thing and you obviously don't understand that when jobs are outsourced it actually helps our companies remain competitive on a global scale, not the opposite.

That is part of the problem, the companies remain competitive so that is good for them their shareholders. The problem is the jobs lost to low cost labor overseas and that is part of the economic problem today. Unemployed people don't spend money and are a drain on the economy. If you have any children, make sure that they train for a job where they must physically be on-site otherwise they run the risk of being chronically unemployed. I have sat in on meetings and listened to my company's strategy for off shoring and the manner in which the jobs being moved are just numbers on a PowerPoint slide, not actual people with mouths to feed. As a shareholder I wll benefit, but there is something inherently wrong in just eliminating jobs to move them overseas rather than a less expensive area of the country. We are allowing companies to reap greater profits at the expense of the populus and the economy.

[RSJ]

you don't understand what i'm saying. i'm not union anymore either. i was once. we all benefit from the fight that unions endure. your company doesn't want a union, so they see what the union gets for the people and they go along. the threat of a union always has to be there or they will take everything back they ever gave out, it's already happening thanks to reagan. unions will gain a lot of popularity again when people get some balls and decide to fight greedy corporate america. As far as debt goes. They can teach kids all they want about modern economics and such. Keep things simple. The less debt, the better. Anyone carrying huge debt, has no power or freedom. Ask warren buffet how far in debt he is. Sounds simplistic, and it is. But it's also reality.

My company has a union - but I'm an accountant and it does me no good one way or another.

It takes debt to accumulate wealth in most cases.

[RSJ]

That is part of the problem, the companies remain competitive so that is good for them their shareholders. The problem is the jobs lost to low cost labor overseas and that is part of the economic problem today. Unemployed people don't spend money and are a drain on the economy. If you have any children, make sure that they train for a job where they must physically be on-site otherwise they run the risk of being chronically unemployed. I have sat in on meetings and listened to my company's strategy for off shoring and the manner in which the jobs being moved are just numbers on a PowerPoint slide, not actual people with mouths to feed. As a shareholder I wll benefit, but there is something inherently wrong in just eliminating jobs to move them overseas rather than a less expensive area of the country. We are allowing companies to reap greater profits at the expense of the populus and the economy.

That is capitalism. You need to evolve with it. Those unemployed people still have plenty of opportunity to regain employment and or start their own business. It is not realistic to expect a US company to compete on a global scale when they are paying 10 times the amout to produce the same product.

[jetscott]

My company has a union - but I'm an accountant and it does me no good one way or another.

It takes debt to accumulate wealth in most cases.

ok, this is a losing battle. Do you mind me asking how old you are? Not trying to be abrasive, just curious. I understand if you don't want to say

[jetscott]

That is capitalism. You need to evolve with it. Those unemployed people still have plenty of opportunity to regain employment and or start their own business. It is not realistic to expect a US company to compete on a global scale when they are paying 10 times the amout to produce the same product.

it's also not realistic for everyone to start their own business and i hear that all the time. That is not the answer to everything

[jetscott]

That is capitalism. You need to evolve with it. Those unemployed people still have plenty of opportunity to regain employment and or start their own business. It is not realistic to expect a US company to compete on a global scale when they are paying 10 times the amout to produce the same product.

would you as an accountant, be willing to work for the same small wages that the production slobs are to earn under that situation? I'm not trying to be hostile but listening to non union or non manufacturing people is actually sickening. Not you, but most don't realize the way they come across as seeming like they deserve what they want but the hourly's are the enemy.

[RSJ]

would you as an accountant, be willing to work for the same small wages that the production slobs are to earn under that situation? I'm not trying to be hostile but listening to non union or non manufacturing people is actually sickening. Not you, but most don't realize the way they come across as seeming like they deserve what they want but the hourly's are the enemy.

No, I would go back to school and get another degree or certification that would make me usefull again. That is why I went to college in the first place. Not that college is the only answer as you can make a very goo living in some of the trades. If you need to form a union it is because there is not a very good market or demand for your profession at the moment.

[jetscott]

No, I would go back to school and get another degree or certification that would make me usefull again. That is why I went to college in the first place. Not that college is the only answer as you can make a very goo living in some of the trades. If you need to form a union it is because there is not a very good market or demand for your profession at the moment.

so you wouldn't consider being an accountant useful because they cut your wages or took benefits from you? That is not the only reason you need to form a union. No demand for RN'S? My girlfriend is an RN and they just formed a union. I would say they are the most needed profession going right now. Teachers aren't in need? Cops aren't in need? Fire fighters aren't in need? Etc., Etc. What text book did you get that from? It's easy to say these things when you benefit from what others have provided you with. And yes, they have provided you with things whether you realize it or not. But this is offtrack. This is supposed to be about the recession. Now I know why we're on the verge if this is how the younger generation see things. I knew it already though. Young people feel it's a neccesity to have a $100 plus cell phone bill per month. And to start out with a 300k house and 40k car. You can't tell them anything. I guess it's all in how they grew up.

[RSJ]

so you wouldn't consider being an accountant useful because they cut your wages or took benefits from you? That is not the only reason you need to form a union. No demand for RN'S? My girlfriend is an RN and they just formed a union. I would say they are the most needed profession going right now. Teachers aren't in need? Cops aren't in need? Fire fighters aren't in need? Etc., Etc. What text book did you get that from? It's easy to say these things when you benefit from what others have provided you with. And yes, they have provided you with things whether you realize it or not. But this is offtrack. This is supposed to be about the recession. Now I know why we're on the verge if this is how the younger generation see things. I knew it already though. Young people feel it's a neccesity to have a $100 plus cell phone bill per month. And to start out with a 300k house and 40k car. You can't tell them anything. I guess it's all in how they grew up.

Supply and Demand puts true pressure on wages. Unions are not needed in a capatalist society and if they started paying accountants crap wages tomorrow it would be an indicater that there are more people able to do what I do then there are companies that need me.

[RSJ]

it's also not realistic for everyone to start their own business and i hear that all the time. That is not the answer to everything

Sure it is.

[Brenjetsfan]

sorry to hear that J....but thank god your hubby makes BIG bucks...lol.....

Look at the glass half empty...longer road trips!....fill'er UP:love0038:

[Cant Hackett]

Supply and Demand puts true pressure on wages. Unions are not needed in a capatalist society and if they started paying accountants crap wages tomorrow it would be an indicater that there are more people able to do what I do then there are companies that need me.

It

[RSJ]

It’s only a matter of time before multinational companies have their accounting departments’ base overseas. Any job done in front of a computer screen can be done anywhere in the world. The world is flat. In a capitalist world with supply and demand, the US is going to lose many high paying white collar jobs in the comings years.

You don't understand how the profession works then. But if that were to ever happen I would adapt. It is possible - but not very probable.

[Cant Hackett]

You don't understand how the profession works then. But if that were to ever happen I would adapt. It is possible - but not very probable.

You don

[SouthernJet]

It’s only a matter of time before multinational companies have their accounting departments’ base overseas. Any job done in front of a computer screen can be done anywhere in the world. The world is flat. In a capitalist world with supply and demand, the US is going to lose many high paying white collar jobs in the comings years.

its possible accounting depts of big companies wil lget off-shored,,BUT, surveys show that in the US , when it comes to taxes and financial advice, people want to go with someone locally and someone they can see,,so those accountants who may lose jobs in acct. depts,,will always have a job in tax returns and in financial consulting..

[RSJ]

You don

[RSJ]

its possible accounting depts of big companies wil lget off-shored,,BUT, surveys show that in the US , when it comes to taxes and financial advice, people want to go with someone locally and someone they can see,,so those accountants who may lose jobs in acct. depts,,will always have a job in tax returns and in financial consulting..

Thank you SJ.

Can't Hackett still can't get over his love for Herm, that's all.

[Jet Moses]

its possible accounting depts of big companies wil lget off-shored,,BUT, surveys show that in the US , when it comes to taxes and financial advice, people want to go with someone locally and someone they can see,,so those accountants who may lose jobs in acct. depts,,will always have a job in tax returns and in financial consulting..

I agree. There is no way in hell banks will get away with outsourcing check processing/financial transactions to 3rd world nations.

Can you imagine Nigerians or Russians getting a hold of Goldman Sachs, Smith Barney et al account information--- signatures, account numbers, even social security numbers?

[SouthernJet]

Thank you SJ.

Can't Hackett still can't get over his love for Herm, that's all.

haha

My brother is a Bentley grad, so I know

[Cant Hackett]

its possible accounting depts of big companies wil lget off-shored,,BUT, surveys show that in the US , when it comes to taxes and financial advice, people want to go with someone locally and someone they can see,,so those accountants who may lose jobs in acct. depts,,will always have a job in tax returns and in financial consulting..

Most accountants coming out of corporate wouldn

[RSJ]

Most accountants coming out of corporate wouldn’t know crap about taxes or consulting. And if enough were retrained, that would drive down the wages and what the public accountants could charge, you know supply and demand.

You couldn't outsource it though. We report to the CFO's, and prepare the financials according to GAAP and other american regulations, a public audit firm would charge 10 times the amount to go to india and communicate with them. We make financial decisions unilaterally of the CFO which I couldn't see handed over to a third world nation. It just wouldn't work. A/P, A/R and payroll processing are possible and there already is a market for them - but those are generally not degree required fields. It is different that other white collar fields that have been outsourced. Others are very black and white like writing software code. GE outsourced it's payroll processing to india and pulled it back within 6 months because it got so bad.

[Cant Hackett]

Good one.

So tell me how would a company have audits performed overseas by an american CPA? Plus investor's are not going to feel very comfortable about investing in a company that has a bunch of foreigners handling their checkbook. Companies have enough problems with american accountants stealing their money, let alone ones from overseas. It is not probably at all. But lets hear your explaination since you are such an expert?

Why do you think the

[RSJ]

Why do you think the “Final Four” Audit Firms; Ernst & Young, Deloitte & Touché, KPMG, and PricewaterhouseCoopers have offices though out the world? It already is being done.

They have offices all over the world for many different reasons. For instance KPMG audits the books of our canadian affiliate as well as us. They audit the canadian books according to canadian rules, regs and tax codes as well as files their canadian tax returns as required. They do not audit them according to US tax code or US regs. It is a totally seperate branch of KPMG that would not know how to even begin auditing for US standards. We also consolidate our financials for all of north america for our parent company. KPMG will audit this as well for our parent company and provide given report. There is a shortage of accountants worldwide and every company needs atleast one.

[Bugg]

Whether it's true or not, I have no idea. But it's said that the Soviets became alarmed during the Cold War when during tours of America in the 1950s they had occasion to see the employee parking lots in UAW plants.Point being unions aren't the enemy, and may not be much of a factor anyway. It's an easy and stupid thing to blame them for everthing. And having a front row seat to how Mayor Bloomturd has treated police unions, pardon me that this virulent antipathy to unions is totally lost in me. Further, the workforce today isn't nearly as unionized as you might think, probably less than 20%, and the bulk of the unionized workforce today is more likely government workers than manufacturing. Think those gogetters down at DMV rather than the Teamsters.

I am conservative, but the idea that Adam Smith's Invisible Hand solves all woes is nonsense. Nobody else in the world sacrifices industries and jobs like we do on the altar of"free trade".I'm not a fan of directed economic plans by government either, quite the contrary. But free trade uber alles is how we have illegal immigrants taking jobs from students, teens and the working poor. And knocking out that bottom rung of ther wage ladder has impacted our wages scale, quality of life and society for the worose. But think of this in quality of life terms;lawn care, kitchen help and construction was done by actual Americans as late as 1990. The loss of good paying blue collar jobs is not a good thing.

The idea that we're all going to be doing high tech and financial services jobs is a total and complete fallacy. I think in many ways Bloomberg's vision of New York is going to prove the undoing of that wrongheaded way of thinking. There doesn't seem to be any understanding that you cannot have a city(or a society) made up of super-rich, a squeezed middle class and intergenerational poor.

I don't have all the answers; no one does, though Ross Perot, Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan have at least explained it and rung the warning bell. But the indiscriminate scapegoating of unions as the most major problem is laughable. The decisions or indifference go much higher that that.

[RSJ]

Whether it's true or not, I have no idea. But it's said that the Soviets became alarmed during the Cold War when during tours of America in the 1950s they had occasion to see the employee parking lots in UAW plants.Point being unions aren't the enemy, and may not be much of a factor anyway. It's an easy and stupid thing to blame them for everthing. And having a front row seat to how Mayor Bloomturd has treated police unions, pardon me that this virulent antipathy to unions is totally lost in me. Further, the workforce today isn't nearly as unionized as you might think, probably less than 20%, and the bulk of the unionized workforce today is more likely government workers than manufacturing. Think those gogetters down at DMV rather than the Teamsters.

I am conservative, but the idea that Adam Smith's Invisible Hand solves all woes is nonsense. Nobody else in the world sacrifices industries and jobs like we do on the altar of"free trade".I'm not a fan of directed economic plans by government either, quite the contrary. But free trade uber alles is how we have illegal immigrants taking jobs from students, teens and the working poor. And knocking out that bottom rung of ther wage ladder has impacted our wages scale, quality of life and society for the worose. But think of this in quality of life terms;lawn care, kitchen help and construction was done by actual Americans as late as 1990. The loss of good paying blue collar jobs is not a good thing.

The idea that we're all going to be doing high tech and financial services jobs is a total and complete fallacy. I think in many ways Bloomberg's vision of New York is going to prove the undoing of that wrongheaded way of thinking. There doesn't seem to be any understanding that you cannot have a city(or a society) made up of super-rich, a squeezed middle class and intergenerational poor.

I don't have all the answers; no one does, though Ross Perot, Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan have at least explained it and rung the warning bell. But the indiscriminate scapegoating of unions as the most major problem is laughable. The decisions or indifference go much higher that that.

I agree with the fact that we are all not going to be doing high tech jobs. It's just that we must evolve to a new field once ours becomes obsolete. I do not think unions are the only issue that ills our society. I just feel that they are a problem.

[Jet Moses]

Whether it's true or not, I have no idea. But it's said that the Soviets became alarmed during the Cold War when during tours of America in the 1950s they had occasion to see the employee parking lots in UAW plants.Point being unions aren't the enemy, and may not be much of a factor anyway. It's an easy and stupid thing to blame them for everthing. And having a front row seat to how Mayor Bloomturd has treated police unions, pardon me that this virulent antipathy to unions is totally lost in me. Further, the workforce today isn't nearly as unionized as you might think, probably less than 20%, and the bulk of the unionized workforce today is more likely government workers than manufacturing. Think those gogetters down at DMV rather than the Teamsters.

I am conservative, but the idea that Adam Smith's Invisible Hand solves all woes is nonsense. Nobody else in the world sacrifices industries and jobs like we do on the altar of"free trade".I'm not a fan of directed economic plans by government either, quite the contrary. But free trade uber alles is how we have illegal immigrants taking jobs from students, teens and the working poor. And knocking out that bottom rung of ther wage ladder has impacted our wages scale, quality of life and society for the worose. But think of this in quality of life terms;lawn care, kitchen help and construction was done by actual Americans as late as 1990. The loss of good paying blue collar jobs is not a good thing.

The idea that we're all going to be doing high tech and financial services jobs is a total and complete fallacy. I think in many ways Bloomberg's vision of New York is going to prove the undoing of that wrongheaded way of thinking. There doesn't seem to be any understanding that you cannot have a city(or a society) made up of super-rich, a squeezed middle class and intergenerational poor.

I don't have all the answers; no one does, though Ross Perot, Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan have at least explained it and rung the warning bell. But the indiscriminate scapegoating of unions as the most major problem is laughable. The decisions or indifference go much higher that that.

Great post on so many levels, Bugg.

I just want to chime in with a few personal anectdotes---

I worked for two banks in 3 years, Deutsche Bank and Citibank. My Citibank experience was horrible, I worked in signature verification and the best way I could describe it, it was a glorified sweatshop. Almost everybody in the dept was Hispanic, first generation, some could not speak English and another large percentage were functionally literate in English. The majority were single mothers getting state aid. The pay was garbage, I only took the job because I thought it would lead to bigger and better things once I graduated school, but the beauracracy in Citibank is such that middle management is terrified of anybody competing for their jobs, so they do everything to derail you. HR is at best incompetent, at worse, totally useless.

DB I worked in compliance, as a new person I was assigned to a project that required the consolidation of all financial transactions post 2001 that complied with Patriot Act regulations. It was a hot potato passed around until some miserable Korean bitch was put in charge of the "team" I was on. My specific task was to determine parent-subsidiary relationships and anybody who knows anything about corporations the main reason they establish subsidiaries is to hide or obfuscate financial transactions for tax purposes.

I got fired, I'm not going to get into the reasons why but it had something to do with my Korean boss recieving an email from me with a picture of Kim jong il.

Anyway, the point being is that these banks locate themselves in NY because it gives them status and it reassures investors that their money is safe. They can afford to stay in NY only because their salary and wage employees are subsidized by taxpayers because nobody can survive in the NYC area on ten/thirteen bucks and hour. Everybody else gets paid on commission, which leads to all sorts of corruption and bad business practices.

I also worked briefly for Ernst and Young in a call center. That was like being in a fishbowl. I got fired from there too. One of the clients didn't realize that when she retired at age 54 that she wouldn't be able to access the money in her 401k without paying a 10% penalty until 59 1/2. So obviously she thought that it was my fault that she was too stupid to find out about this before leaving (if she had stayed until age 55 and worked beyond 30 years it would have been waived).

Well I got tired of trying to explain the IRS exemptions if the money is used for certain things, so I transfered her to Citibank who were managing the 401k (and she had all her money in a money market account!) and I forgot to hit the mute button so I told the Citibank rep "this woman is out of her mind".

[jetscott]

Sure it is.

dude, get off the pipe

[jetscott]

Whether it's true or not, I have no idea. But it's said that the Soviets became alarmed during the Cold War when during tours of America in the 1950s they had occasion to see the employee parking lots in UAW plants.Point being unions aren't the enemy, and may not be much of a factor anyway. It's an easy and stupid thing to blame them for everthing. And having a front row seat to how Mayor Bloomturd has treated police unions, pardon me that this virulent antipathy to unions is totally lost in me. Further, the workforce today isn't nearly as unionized as you might think, probably less than 20%, and the bulk of the unionized workforce today is more likely government workers than manufacturing. Think those gogetters down at DMV rather than the Teamsters.

I am conservative, but the idea that Adam Smith's Invisible Hand solves all woes is nonsense. Nobody else in the world sacrifices industries and jobs like we do on the altar of"free trade".I'm not a fan of directed economic plans by government either, quite the contrary. But free trade uber alles is how we have illegal immigrants taking jobs from students, teens and the working poor. And knocking out that bottom rung of ther wage ladder has impacted our wages scale, quality of life and society for the worose. But think of this in quality of life terms;lawn care, kitchen help and construction was done by actual Americans as late as 1990. The loss of good paying blue collar jobs is not a good thing.

The idea that we're all going to be doing high tech and financial services jobs is a total and complete fallacy. I think in many ways Bloomberg's vision of New York is going to prove the undoing of that wrongheaded way of thinking. There doesn't seem to be any understanding that you cannot have a city(or a society) made up of super-rich, a squeezed middle class and intergenerational poor.

I don't have all the answers; no one does, though Ross Perot, Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan have at least explained it and rung the warning bell. But the indiscriminate scapegoating of unions as the most major problem is laughable. The decisions or indifference go much higher that that.

great post. Do you realize that out of the whole american workforce, less than 18% is in manufacturing today? We need to start making things here again. Everyone is not cut out for cubicle jobs.

[RSJ]

dude, get off the pipe

Stop blaming others for your failures in life.

[RSJ]

great post. Do you realize that out of the whole american workforce, less than 18% is in manufacturing today? We need to start making things here again. Everyone is not cut out for cubicle jobs.

There are plenty of good paying, non cubical jobs out there. You just don't have the capacity to get one. Sorry no one wants to pay you 50k a year to assemble matchbox cars, but that's just the way it is.

[jetscott]

Stop blaming others for your failures in life.

hey big boy, i'm not blaming anyone. I'm not talking about me. I make plenty of cash, trust me. I'm talking about the country as a whole. You know, the concept of caring about others? You're a typical spoiled little rich boy aren't you?

[jetscott]

There are plenty of good paying, non cubical jobs out there. You just don't have the capacity to get one. Sorry no one wants to pay you 50k a year to assemble matchbox cars, but that's just the way it is.

50k? that's way too low and you have no clue who I am or what I do so stop speculating and count your beans. You don't have a clue of what you speak of. Now this can continue or I can just take you for what you're worth. And that I see, is a big waste of time. Any wonder you young punks are broke. Have fun bean boy

[RSJ]

hey big boy, i'm not blaming anyone. I'm not talking about me. I make plenty of cash, trust me. I'm talking about the country as a whole. You know, the concept of caring about others? You're a typical spoiled little rich boy aren't you?

Rich boy?

[RSJ]

50k? that's way too low and you have no clue who I am or what I do so stop speculating and count your beans. You don't have a clue of what you speak of. Now this can continue or I can just take you for what you're worth. And that I see, is a big waste of time. Any wonder you young punks are broke. Have fun bean boy

I will only keep counting my beans if you keep whining because the real world is too tough on you.