Reiss: NE rejected multiple offers for #3 pick

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

👀 I would have taken the Giants’ offer as soon as Daniels to DC was announced.

Maye looks like a Trubisky ZW level bust.

Belichick exposed some of his problems in the live McAfee draft show.

Footwork is a mess, doesn’t see the field well, flees the pocket too quickly, lack of composure, etc. but is a talented kid who “can make all the throws” 🤣 

They could have still had McCarthy at #6, Nabers, Odunze or any non-Alt OT.

Even better, could have solved their playmaker issues once and for all with the sure fire HOFer GOAT / Unicorn /  Brock Bowers (“BB”) 😂

 

[Dcat]

1 minute ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

👀 I would have taken the Giants’ offer as soon as Daniels to DC was announced.

Maye looks like a Trubisky ZW level bust.

Belichick exposed some of his problems in the live McAfee draft show.

Footwork is a mess, flees the pocket too quickly, lack of composure, but is a talented kid who “can make all the throws” 🤣 

They could have still had McCarthy at #6, Nabers, Odune or any non-Alt OT.

 

fingers crossed that Maye is going to suck.  There is NOTHING I want more for Patriots fans this season.  

[slats]

I’d’ve taken the Giants offer, and then seen what the Vikes would offer for #6, but this was probably a case of too much owner in the war room. 

[Ghost]

Wow. These guys are idiots. 

[GreenFish]

I would have taken the Vikings offer. Without question. 

[PepPep]

Just now, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Maye looks like a Trubisky ZW level bust.

Belichick exposed some of his problems in the live McAfee draft show.

Footwork is a mess, doesn’t see the field well, flees the pocket too quickly, lack of composure, etc. but is a talented kid who “can make all the throws” 🤣 

Or maybe Josh Allen 😁

[GreenFish]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

I’d’ve taken the Giants offer, and then seen what the Vikes would offer for #6, but this was probably a case of too much owner in the war room. 

Owners meddling in football decisions is great as long as it’s not the Jets.

Unless it’s Jerry Jones. He meddles and the Cowboys seem well run. Especially as it pertains to the draft. The team just struggles in the playoffs.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

10 minutes ago, slats said:

I’d’ve taken the Giants offer, and then seen what the Vikes would offer for #6, but this was probably a case of too much owner in the war room. 

Even better.

NE lacks talent all over the field.

Giants are well coached with Daboll but they really suck and would suck even more with a rookie QB.

NE is going to feel stupid when the Giants end up with the another top-5 range pick.  Could even end up being #1 overall 😂

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

9 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Or maybe Josh Allen 😁

I don’t agree with that comp at all.

Have seen it out there’s but it’s lazy and absurd.  It doesn’t make sense on any level.

Belichick and Kiper both dismissed it too.

If any white guy with “arm talent” and mobility is “the next Josh Allen” then ok yeah, I guess that’s Drake Maye.

[slimjasi]

Jeremiah had been saying they were never serious about trading down for weeks leading up to the draft. Kraft wanted a young QB to sell hope to the fanbase. 

I actually like Maye, but I wouldn't rush to throw him in there

[usanyj]

They're stupid unless Maye hits...if Maye hits and he's the next guy then whatever was offered wasn't enough because a Franchise QB is essential priceless.  

A lot of people complained about the compensation for the Darnold trade up, but if he hit, who cares?

[Claymation]

Does the NE have the coaches that can fix his footwork and work on his ability to see the field?

Do they have the offensive line to protect him?

If not, I see another Mac situation.

I have a feeling JJ McCarthy is going to be the best of the bunch.

[Joe W. Namath]

Maye has tons of potential.  Smart move by by Pats selecting him.

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, slats said:

I’d’ve taken the Giants offer, and then seen what the Vikes would offer for #6, but this was probably a case of too much owner in the war room. 

I’d bet there was a fair amount of “they must know something we don’t know” paranoia, too.

Vikings offer instant changes trajectory of the organization. Surprised they passed.

[RoadFan]

It was, in part, a business decision by New England.   Their fans will have zero reason to attend games in the second half of the season when the Pats are 2-7.  Maye will keep them intrigued when he is ready to take over for Brissett.  

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

He dominated Syracuse, Pitt, Notre Dame and a few other teams like Florida A&M.

But he also faced all of 1 SEC opponent his entire college career, South Carolina, and was middling there.

His stats against Clemson aren't exactly inspiring.

Would have been interesting to see what he would have done had he returned to school for a senior season.

He's only 21 though, and teams (other than the Falcons apparently 😂) love drafting younger prospects because they can talk themselves into theoretically increased "upside" (e.g. Maccagnan pontificating on Darnold).

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/drake-maye-1/splits/

 

[rbstern]

If Maye is good, Patriots look smart.

If Maye is bad, Patriots look dumb.

Welcome to drafting hindsight 101.

[Mr. Rogers]

I'm not afraid of the version of Maye coming out of college. He definitely has NFL level physical tools, but like most every QB prospect that isn't Andrew Luck, he needs work.

What worries me is that the Patriots seem unlikely to throw him to the wolves. They signed Jacoby Brissett to bridge and mentor him, which is very smart and exactly what the Jets should have done with Darnold and/or Wilson. They know their supporting cast isn't great right now, but in another year of building they can add a lot. If they don't cave to fan pressure and rush Maye in too early, I'm a little worried he may haunt us in the future. 

 Sam Howell was supposedly raw coming out of the same program, but actually looked really good (despite a terrible OL and game scripts due to his defense) after a year on the bench. Food for thought. 

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, slats said:

I’d’ve taken the Giants offer, and then seen what the Vikes would offer for #6, but this was probably a case of too much owner in the war room. 

Yea, the owner wanted the QB, as they usually do 

[Mr. Rogers]

4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Yea, the owner wanted the QB, as they usually do 

Let's be fair (and this is in response to multiple people)

Next year's QB class supposedly doesn't look good. Even if they took the giants trade or whatever, there's absolutely no guarantee they'd be in a position to take a QB next year, nevermind a better one. And the new England patriots are not going to do a Jaguars level tank, especially for (?) Quinn Ewers or the Sanders kid.

If you're in position to take a franchise QB, you tend to need to do it. And for those saying they'd take McCarthy instead- really? He's worse lol, all the same technical criticisms apply and he doesn't have the physical profile of Maye either. I WISH the Patriots took McCarthy. 

[slimjasi]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Rogers said:

Let's be fair (and this is in response to multiple people)

Next year's QB class supposedly doesn't look good. Even if they took the giants trade or whatever, there's absolutely no guarantee they'd be in a position to take a QB next year, nevermind a better one. And the new England patriots are not going to do a Jaguars level tank, especially for (?) Quinn Ewers or the Sanders kid.

If you're in position to take a franchise QB, you tend to need to do it. And for those saying they'd take McCarthy instead- really? He's worse lol, all the same technical criticisms apply and he doesn't have the physical profile of Maye either. I WISH the Patriots took McCarthy. 

I actually have no problem with them taking Drake Maye. If you think he's the guy, you take him. 

I'm just saying that Kraft was always gonna want a QB, regardless. 

[Mr. Rogers]

Just now, slimjasi said:

I actually have no problem with them taking Drake Maye. If you think he's the guy, you take him. 

I'm just saying that Kraft was always gonna want a QB, regardless. 

Yeah, I clarified that it was more @ everyone. If anything your post accentuates my point that, while it can feel easy to criticize, it's rare to be in position to draft a FQB. Kraft was probably right to lock that in, if he did. I suspect Mayo was on board all along as well given his comments when hired

[The Crusher]

53 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Maye has tons of potential.  Smart move by by Pats selecting him.

I actually agree with this. Kid looks good to me short of the Christian Hackenburgh jawline, but looks like a fine QB.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

18 minutes ago, Mr. Rogers said:

Let's be fair (and this is in response to multiple people)

Next year's QB class supposedly doesn't look good. Even if they took the giants trade or whatever, there's absolutely no guarantee they'd be in a position to take a QB next year, nevermind a better one. And the new England patriots are not going to do a Jaguars level tank, especially for (?) Quinn Ewers or the Sanders kid.

If you're in position to take a franchise QB, you tend to need to do it. And for those saying they'd take McCarthy instead- really? He's worse lol, all the same technical criticisms apply and he doesn't have the physical profile of Maye either. I WISH the Patriots took McCarthy. 

Yeah, but the thing about this is there are surprises seemingly every year with guys unexpectedly emerging.

Jayden Daniels.  Burrow.

The Kenny Pickett class was uniquely abysmal.

[PFSIKH]

1 hour ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

👀 I would have taken the Giants’ offer as soon as Daniels to DC was announced.

Maye looks like a Trubisky ZW level bust.

Belichick exposed some of his problems in the live McAfee draft show.

Footwork is a mess, doesn’t see the field well, flees the pocket too quickly, lack of composure, etc. but is a talented kid who “can make all the throws” 🤣 

They could have still had McCarthy at #6, Nabers, Odunze or any non-Alt OT.

Even better, could have solved their playmaker issues once and for all with the sure fire HOFer GOAT / Unicorn /  Brock Bowers (“BB”) 😂

 

Yeah, but....

Brian Daboll, who developed Josh Allen into what he is today and you can say Josh Allen has regressed since he left.  Daboll managed to squeeze something out of Daniel Jones.  He wanted Maye.  He passed on McCarthy.

Kevin O'Connell, generally regarded as a very good offensive mind wanted Drake Maye.  Why not move up to get McCarthy?  The Giants passed on McCarthy.  Atlanta passed on McCarthy and took Pennix.  Denver and Vegas did not try to move up for McCarthy.  O'Connell let Cousins walk and settled for McCarthy who fell to him.  

Drake Maye is 21.  He does need to work on things.  Bill was right in that regard.  I would trust Daboll's and O'Connell's thoughts on what Maye might become over that crap "what if" you proposed.

 

[Mr. Rogers]

6 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Yeah, but the thing about this is there are surprises seemingly every year with guys unexpectedly emerging.

Jayden Daniels.  Burrow.

The Kenny Pickett class was uniquely abysmal.

Still. You gonna stake the future on a potential "surprise"? Especially when you don't even know if you'll be in range to draft said "surprise"? 

I don't think the Maye kid is so bad that they should have just balked and punted on picking a QB. In a world where even blue chip looking QB prospects bust sometimes, you gotta take your chance and try. If Maye starts and is really that bad, they can always draft a "surprise" replacement next year anyway. Even on a bad year, ending up at #3 in the draft is a little unusual. To me, the Pats just followed the prevailing wisdom.

Edit: Also, you can say that about Picketts class, but past Lawrence, the Zach Wilson class is looking horrible too. Look back through the last 15 years, plenty of horrible QB classes. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

14 minutes ago, PFSIKH said:

Yeah, but....

Brian Daboll, who developed Josh Allen into what he is today and you can say Josh Allen has regressed since he left.  Daboll managed to squeeze something out of Daniel Jones.  He wanted Maye.  He passed on McCarthy.

Kevin O'Connell, generally regarded as a very good offensive mind wanted Drake Maye.  Why not move up to get McCarthy?  The Giants passed on McCarthy.  Atlanta passed on McCarthy and took Pennix.  Denver and Vegas did not try to move up for McCarthy.  O'Connell let Cousins walk and settled for McCarthy who fell to him.  

Drake Maye is 21.  He does need to work on things.  Bill was right in that regard.  I would trust Daboll's and O'Connell's thoughts on what Maye might become over that crap "what if" you proposed.

LOL

The flashing neon "open for business at #3" sign they were holding predraft is a surefire sign of their confidence in Maye.

Some coaches think they can fix anyone.

I'd have more confidence in Daboll or O'Connell developing Maye than anyone on the Patriots' staff.

Did they decide to have a reunion and run it back with the Matt Patricia + Joe Judge group-sourced playcalling for 2024? 🤣

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Rogers said:

Still. You gonna stake the future on a potential "surprise"? Especially when you don't even know if you'll be in range to draft said "surprise"? 

I don't think the Maye kid is so bad that they should have just balked and punted on picking a QB. In a world where even blue chip looking QB prospects bust sometimes, you gotta take your chance and try. If Maye starts and is really that bad, they can always draft a "surprise" replacement next year anyway. Even on a bad year, ending up at #3 in the draft is a little unusual. To me, the Pats just followed the prevailing wisdom.

Edit: Also, you can say that about Picketts class, but past Lawrence, the Zach Wilson class is looking horrible too. Look back through the last 15 years, plenty of horrible QB classes. 

No.

There's no law that says they have to draft a 1st round QB next year either.

There's FA, trade market, day 2 and even day 3 QBs who slide.  Dak will be a FA next offseason.

The 1st round bust rate for QBs is pretty high.

Whether I'm desperate for a QB or not, I'm not taking a player at #3 overall unless I'm confident he's going to be great.

That's the kind of reasoning that leads to drafting Zach Wilson #2 overall in class studded with guys like Jamarr Chase, Sewell, DeVonta Smith, Micah Parsons, etc.

Rattler is too reckless with the football, but has better footwork and mechanics (and arm talent IMO) than Drake Maye.

[Mr. Rogers]

Just now, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

LOL

The flashing "open for business at #3" sign they were holding is a surefire sign of their confidence in Maye

You say that like GMs don't lie about their intentions every off season lol. They were no doubt just testing if some team would go far above and beyond the "reasonable" offers sent by the giants and Vikings. JD talked up Brock Bowers big time then let him go by without a 2nd thought. This says nothing about their confidence in Maye to me.

[bitonti]

2 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

 

Maye looks like a Trubisky ZW level bust.

 

Fwiw I like Maye alot better long term than Caleb, JJ and Daniels

I think he's my QB1 in this class 

the guy  has a sick arm, works within the system, makes all the throws and has been a huge big time prospect for like 3 years (unlike ZW and Trubisky) 

i don't see why everyone think's he's so busty 

Is it because that's what we want to believe? 

 

[Mr. Rogers]

7 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

No.

There's no law that says they have to draft a 1st round QB next year either.

There's FA, trade market, day 2 and even day 3 QBs.  Dak will be a FA next offseason.

The 1st round bust rate for QBs is pretty high.

Whether I'm desperate for a QB or not, I'm not taking a player at #3 overall unless I'm confident he's going to be great.

That's the kind of reasoning that leads to drafting Zach Wilson #2 overall.

I disagree. By your argument, you may as well never draft a QB, except maybe the extremely rare times a #1 coming in is beyond talented. 

The league can't operate that way, there ain't enough free agent QB talent to go around. If your argument is that QBs should stop getting such high priority in the draft, then my counter argument is this - look at how the Jets and so many others fare without that FQB. You can almost never win it all.

Like it or not, QB is the most important position, and drafting a FQB is THE path to winning it all. Lots of people were laughing ar cj stroud to the texans this time last year, him being "dumb" and "propped up by the Ohio State offense". As I said, bar an Andrew Luck, there will always be doubts on these FQB, yet they will always go top due to their importance. You gotta risk drafting a zach Wilson sometimes. 

Bringing in a dak Prescott sounds nice, but how many free agent QBs have won super bowls who didn't win them in the past with their drafted teams first? I can't even think of one in the modern era. Drafting is the way to go. QBs taken outside the first round or random FAs get the Job done at a FAR lower rate than 1st round QBs, even if many of those are busts too.

[GreenFish]

2 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Even better.

NE lacks talent all over the field.

Giants are well coached with Daboll but they really suck and would suck even more with a rookie QB.

NE is going to feel stupid when the Giants end up with the another top-5 range pick.  Could even end up being #1 overall 😂

Great point. That Giants 2025 pick is likely a top 5 pick.

Teams wanted to go up for Penix as well. So there would have been demand for the Giants pick.

[Hael]

I doubt Maye plays much this year, and the Pats will be a dumpster fire, bottom barrel team.  However, he was clearly the right choice given their situation.  In many other years he would go number 1.  You can’t pass on a foundational qb no matter what you are offered.

I actually think there will be 3 qbs in this draft that will end up as foundational players for many years (Maye, JJ, Jayden). Caleb and Maye are more boom or bust than the others, but for whatever reason i’m more worried about Caleb than any of the others.

[Mr. Rogers]

16 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

No.

There's no law that says they have to draft a 1st round QB next year either.

There's FA, trade market, day 2 and even day 3 QBs who slide.  Dak will be a FA next offseason.

The 1st round bust rate for QBs is pretty high.

Whether I'm desperate for a QB or not, I'm not taking a player at #3 overall unless I'm confident he's going to be great.

That's the kind of reasoning that leads to drafting Zach Wilson #2 overall in class studded with guys like Jamarr Chase, Sewell, DeVonta Smith, Micah Parsons, etc.

Rattler is too reckless with the football, but has better footwork and mechanics (and arm talent IMO) than Drake Maye.

I mean seriously. If a few reported flaws are stopping you from taking a top 10 QB ever, what happens with the Mahomes, Allens, Strouds, and Herberts? All those guys had flaws and critics, were not consensus top picks unlike the Baker Mayfields or Trevor Lawrences. This logic ain't it.

If you just specifically think Maye sucks then fine, we'll see. But to me this a really poor argument against drafting QBs high when you have the chance. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

14 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Fwiw I like Maye alot better long term than Caleb, JJ and Daniels

I think he's my QB1 in this class 

the guy  has a sick arm, works within the system, makes all the throws and has been a huge big time prospect for like 3 years (unlike ZW and Trubisky) 

i don't see why everyone think's he's so busty 

Is it because that's what we want to believe?

Nobody's as bad as Zach Wilson.

So in that regard, it's probably unfair to Maye.

Clemson is probably one of the better defenses he faced in college football, no?

I don't see anything here that screams NFL difference maker or even solid NFL starter.

He's inaccurate on slants.  Looks almost more comfortable out of structure than in structure.

I think with him, you're betting on being able to coach up an athletic kid with prototypical size who looks like he has a decent arm.

It's hard to believe he's listed at the same height as Josh Allen. 

Allen stands tall in the pocket, whereas for reason Maye looks and moves like a smaller QB.  Allen can outrun, leapfrog and truck dudes when he's not throwing ropes from 35 yards out to the back of the end zone. 

Maye isn't gonna be able to those things.