Chad Haters

[Sperm Edwards]

How many points did Kellen score? What was his completion %? What was his QB rating? Okay then. I didn't say the D was at fault but they did play a hell of a lot better in the 2nd half of the year. If you want to ignore that you can.

Okay then? Dumpoff passes lead to higher completion %age and therefore higher QB rating. They are stats that do not always indicate what you think they indicate. In his own starts, if McCareins doesn't drop 2 TD's (one of them becoming a pick through his hands), Clemens had a 6-7 ratio. Removing a 100% useless TD at the end of the Cincy game Chad's was 9-9. And Chad had actual starting receivers in most of his games where Clemens' "go-to" receivers were McCareins and Brad Smith due to injury.

Am I supposed to be impressed by the discrepancy in their stats as a result of that?

Besides - you were suggesting how much easier Clemens had it than Pennington by virtue of a much better defense. Clearly that is total bull***t.

[jetfuel]

Okay then? Dumpoff passes lead to higher completion %age and therefore higher QB rating. They are stats that do not always indicate what you think they indicate. In his own starts, if McCareins doesn't drop 2 TD's (one of them becoming a pick through his hands), Clemens had a 6-7 ratio. Removing a 100% useless TD at the end of the Cincy game Chad's was 9-9. And Chad had actual starting receivers in most of his games where Clemens' "go-to" receivers were McCareins and Brad Smith due to injury.

Am I supposed to be impressed by the discrepancy in their stats as a result of that?

Besides - you were suggesting how much easier Clemens had it than Pennington by virtue of a much better defense. Clearly that is total bull***t.

Ratliff in '08 - I'm done debating about two awful QB's. They both blow.

[NJ]

How many points did Kellen score? What was his completion %? What was his QB rating? Okay then. I didn't say the D was at fault but they did play a hell of a lot better in the 2nd half of the year. If you want to ignore that you can.

Okay then? Dumpoff passes lead to higher completion %age and therefore higher QB rating. They are stats that do not always indicate what you think they indicate. In his own starts, if McCareins doesn't drop 2 TD's (one of them becoming a pick through his hands), Clemens had a 6-7 ratio. Removing a 100% useless TD at the end of the Cincy game Chad's was 9-9. And Chad had actual starting receivers in most of his games where Clemens' "go-to" receivers were McCareins and Brad Smith due to injury.

Am I supposed to be impressed by the discrepancy in their stats as a result of that?

Besides - you were suggesting how much easier Clemens had it than Pennington by virtue of a much better defense. Clearly that is total bull***t.

Could be a lost cause here Sperm - this dreamer is starting to make eCurbs arguments sound valid.

[jetfuel]

Could be a lost cause here Sperm - this dreamer is starting to make eCurbs arguments sound valid.

You must be the God of football. Sorry to offend your vast knowledge of the game. Don't shoot yourself if Chad starts this year.

[L.I.MikeBleedsGreen]

Ratliff in '08 - I'm done debating about two awful QB's. They both blow.

yeah but chad blows harder and he swallows, Then he will finish the game off with a Pick six.

He is my Hero.

[jetfuel]

yeah but chad blows harder and he swallows, Then he will finish the game off with a Pick six.

He is my Hero.

Say what you will, but Clemens reminded me way too much of Browning Nagle if you really want to get into that. Great arm, no decision making ability.

You couldn't just leave it at they both suck. You had to take another stab at Chad. When I saw how bad Chad was last year and put my hope into Clemens all I got was a Nagle. Hope that changes this year.

[#27TheDominator]

Ratliff in '08 - I'm done debating about two awful QB's. They both blow.

Unfortunately, except for the part about Ratliff, this may be the most rational post in the whole thread. Mine included. I think Sperm is a little harsh on Penny, but he has never been a game winner. He was usually good enough to not lose the game for you. That all went out the window last year and he was atrocious. I'm sure he could do better than last year, but is that really what we are looking for? IMO, Clemens arm strength is overrated. He doesn't throw ducks like Pennington, but he's a far cry from Elway or Favre. I don't think his arm is anywhere near as strong as Nagle's. Our best hope is that Clemens gets his head on straight, pays attention to his footwork and the offensive line gives him the time to get some confidence. Otherwise we will see a new QB in '09 or another "open competition".

[jetfuel]

Unfortunately, except for the part about Ratliff, this may be the most rational post in the whole thread. Mine included. I think Sperm is a little harsh on Penny, but he has never been a game winner. He was usually good enough to not lose the game for you. That all went out the window last year and he was atrocious. I'm sure he could do better than last year, but is that really what we are looking for? IMO, Clemens arm strength is overrated. He doesn't throw ducks like Pennington, but he's a far cry from Elway or Favre. I don't think his arm is anywhere near as strong as Nagle's. Our best hope is that Clemens gets his head on straight, pays attention to his footwork and the offensive line gives him the time to get some confidence. Otherwise we will see a new QB in '09 or another "open competition".

I'm not sure who I want to see start at this point. Obviously the Ratliff thing is a joke. I agree that if Clemens can get his head on straight and get the job done the Jets will be better off. If for nothing else Kellen is a lot younger so it would be stupid to not hope he can be the guy going forward. If he doesn't look any better than he did last year I'd rather have Chad in there because I know he will be better with an actual OL in front of him. He is a very good play-action QB. I do want Clemens to be good which seems to go over the heads of everyone who is bashing me for supporting Chad.

[#27TheDominator]

I'm not sure who I want to see start at this point. Obviously the Ratliff thing is a joke. I agree that if Clemens can get his head on straight and get the job done the Jets will be better off. If for nothing else Kellen is a lot younger so it would be stupid to not hope he can be the guy going forward. If he doesn't look any better than he did last year I'd rather have Chad in there because I know he will be better than he was last year with an actual OL in front of him. I do want Clemens to be good which seems to go over the heads of everyone who is bashing me for supporting Chad.

Hater.

[jetfuel]

Hater.

You see what I mean?

good one!

[lancemehl]

I'm not sure who I want to see start at this point. Obviously the Ratliff thing is a joke. I agree that if Clemens can get his head on straight and get the job done the Jets will be better off. If for nothing else Kellen is a lot younger so it would be stupid to not hope he can be the guy going forward. If he doesn't look any better than he did last year I'd rather have Chad in there because I know he will be better with an actual OL in front of him. He is a very good play-action QB. I do want Clemens to be good which seems to go over the heads of everyone who is bashing me for supporting Chad.

The concept of rooting for anyone in a jets jersey to be great,including Clemens, while feeling that Chad Pennington can win football games cannot be grasped here. Forget it! It's one or the other: Chad or Clemens.

To say that you think Chad will start, but you hope Clemens improves is not logical.

Here.

[jetfuel]

The concept of rooting for anyone in a jets jersey to be great,including Clemens, while feeling that Chad Pennington can win football games cannot be grasped here. Forget it! It's one or the other: Chad or Clemens.

To say that you think Chad will start, but you hope Clemens improves is not logical.

Here.

It's not one or the other. It is the QB who starts for the Jets that I will be in support of. Whoever wins the job is who I will root for. What you are saying is not logical. Because I think Chad will start and I know that he can win I should hope that Clemens doesn't improve? The only person that HAS TO choose between the two is Mangini.

Who the hell are you to tell me that I can't wish Clemens the best in his development? If Chad loses the battle for QB should I root against Kellen? Where is YOUR logic?

DUH! I think I just picked up on some sarcasm. In other words I think I totally overreacted to your post. Sorry man ... I'm just so used to having to defend myself here. I figured I'd leave my original post up just to show how dopey it was instead of editing it out.

Yes, I'm a dopey bastard

[#27TheDominator]

It's not one or the other. It is the QB who starts for the Jets that I will be in support of. Whoever wins the job is who I will root for. What you are saying is not logical. Because I think Chad will start and I know that he can win I should hope that Clemens doesn't improve? The only person that HAS TO choose between the two is Mangini.

Who the hell are you to tell me that I can't wish Clemens the best in his development? If Chad loses the battle for QB should I root against Kellen? Where is YOUR logic?

Ummm....... dude, he was agreeing with you.

Like most Jets fans I will root for the backup. Matt Robinson lives!!!!!!!!!!!

[jetfuel]

Ummm....... dude, he was agreeing with you.

Like most Jets fans I will root for the backup. Matt Robinson lives!!!!!!!!!!!

How is telling me that I have to choose between the two agreeing with me? Telling me that it is not logical to want Clemens to get better if I think Chad can start is agreeing? I know he is in favor of starting Chad but that doesn't mean that he agreed with what I said. Maybe I'm just confused here.

[jetfuel]

Ummm....... dude, he was agreeing with you.

Like most Jets fans I will root for the backup. Matt Robinson lives!!!!!!!!!!!

Sarcasm! I'm an idiot! Just got it ... I think

Pat Ryan!!!!!

[The Troll]

He didn't play in 2005. The Jets went 10-6 and lost to the Pats in the playoffs in 2006. Not even Namath in his prime could have done well with the OL the Jets had in 2007. I'm not erasing anything. Chad will probably start this year.

Chad started three games in '05. Small sample size, yes. But, he was just as ****ty in those three games as he was in '06 and '07. Remember when he did his best Dave Kreig impersonation, fumbling eleventy billion times and failing to lead the "Super Bowl contender" Jets to a single point against the Chiefs' AWESOME defense?

Chad was terrible in '06. Remember that two month stretch where he didn't throw for over 200 yards in any game? That was awesome. It's also nice how he needed to carve up absolutely horrible Minnesota and Green Bay pass defenses in order to post a 17 TD, 16 INT season.

Joe Namath might not have done well, but he surely would have done a whole hell of a lot better than Chad last year. Hell, Clemens did better than Chad last year, and no one is confusing KC with a Hall of Fame QB. I don't think Joe Namath would have thrown like 3 wobbling duck pick sixes in the final minutes with a chance to win either.

[#27TheDominator]

I don't think Chad was horrible in '06. Not great, maybe not even good, but at least adequate. Based off of '06 I still considered him a viable starter that we should look to upgrade. Last year wiped away most of that.

[MasonJet]

just needed to point something out:

"I hate that his weaknesses keep us from scoring points in football games."

I guess that Clemens 5 TD's in 7+ games of action is considered scoring points? I am not going to kill him or Chad for last year's crappy OL but where you see evidence that Clemens can score more points is beyond me. Is it possible? Yes. Has there been any real evidence of it? NO!

The point is that Pennington has reached his potential. We know what kind of QB he is, what he can and cannot do. We do not know what Clemens potential is and he has never had a chance to play with a decent supporting cast. Pennington has had those chances and I'm sick of the excuses. He had his best year 6 years ago and it is time to move on.

[jetfuel]

Chad started three games in '05. Small sample size, yes. But, he was just as ****ty in those three games as he was in '06 and '07. Remember when he did his best Dave Kreig impersonation, fumbling eleventy billion times and failing to lead the "Super Bowl contender" Jets to a single point against the Chiefs' AWESOME defense?

Chad was terrible in '06. Remember that two month stretch where he didn't throw for over 200 yards in any game? That was awesome. It's also nice how he needed to carve up absolutely horrible Minnesota and Green Bay pass defenses in order to post a 17 TD, 16 INT season.

Joe Namath might not have done well, but he surely would have done a whole hell of a lot better than Chad last year. Hell, Clemens did better than Chad last year, and no one is confusing KC with a Hall of Fame QB. I don't think Joe Namath would have thrown like 3 wobbling duck pick sixes in the final minutes with a chance to win either.

Clemens did better than no one last year. He had possibly the worst QB rating in the history of football. Chad was NOT terrible in '06. I wouldn't say he was great but he was not terrible. As good as the rest of your team may be you do not go 10-6 with a terrible QB and the rest of the team was not all that great anyway. In '05 he had come back too soon from surgery which is why he was re-injured after three games. What point is there in bringing up 2005? If you think he sucked in 2006 that's fine although I disagree but 2005 is ridiculous to bring up when he was never healthy from the beginning. That is just digging up whatever you can to bash Chad. Whatever. We obviously disagree and that's that. I just hope all you people are going to be rooting for our team IF Chad gets the nod.

[#27TheDominator]

Since this thread is at the top (again) I'd like to make a point:

When I bring up 2004 in response to the "you could never win the big one with Chad" arguement, I am never stating that he was the reason they were ready to beat the Steelers. I am merely pointing out that, even with the bad shoulder, there was a time when Pennington was good enough to get to the AFC championship. Maybe it's because of the supporting cast, but they were right there even if it was in spite of him. I do not need to be informed how many yards he threw for, or how many points the D set up. IMO, Coach Dumbass cost us that win whether Penny sucked or not. My profanity is still echoing in my mother in law's den.

[jetfuel]

The point is that Pennington has reached his potential. We know what kind of QB he is, what he can and cannot do. We do not know what Clemens potential is and he has never had a chance to play with a decent supporting cast. Pennington has had those chances and I'm sick of the excuses. He had his best year 6 years ago and it is time to move on.

No excuses, Chad is a better QB at this point in time whether people choose to acknowledge that or not. Clemens may have more potential but it is up to Mangini to decide if that is enough to give him the job again this year. Personally, I am not ready to watch the Jets lose all year again if Clemens has already shown his potential. I know Chad can play better than he did last year. Either way, let's see what Kellen can do with the new pieces. Like I said, Mangini is going to make the call, not us. He doesn't care if you have seen enough of Chad. He's gonna go with who he thinks will win games. You say that's not Chad but he has to make that call.

[jetfuel]

Since this thread is at the top (again) I'd like to make a point:

When I bring up 2004 in response to the "you could never win the big one with Chad" arguement, I am never stating that he was the reason they were ready to beat the Steelers. I am merely pointing out that, even with the bad shoulder, there was a time when Pennington was good enough to get to the AFC championship. Maybe it's because of the supporting cast, but they were right there even if it was in spite of him. I do not need to be informed how many yards he threw for, or how many points the D set up. IMO, Coach Dumbass cost us that win whether Penny sucked or not. My profanity is still echoing in my mother in law's den.

Exactly! The point is that they were in position to win the game with a FG and they decide to kneel on the ball, lose a few yards, and stay on the left hashmark in the process. Everyone knows how difficult it is to kick a 40+ yard field goal in Pitt ... everyone except for Herm and Hackett who could have run the ball up the middle a couple of times and gained a couple more yards instead of that retarded kneel down and lose yards. I think our echoes have probably met up along the way from that game. UGH! Bad memory!