New York Jets Mafia Game Thread

[Doggin94it]

Well lets see...

you've claimed roleless, pac cop, vic cop, so that leaves

1) JT

2) Woody

3) CTM

4) EY

5) Norway

6) Slats

7) SMC

To claim..

My problem here is if a player with a power role like "roleblocker" claims townie cause he's worried about getting NK'd the whole plan goes up in smoke..

Do you have a role?

[Doggin94it]

Do you have a role?

Eh well, thought I hit stop on time to avoid the prior post and set the trap. No such luck.

Didn't really see you falling into it anyway, though.

[Doggin94it]

Hmm, not if they both claim and we lynch both of them, cause "there can't be two cops"

Also, 2 GF's out of 4 mafia members balance it..

Heh. Disagree - that would turn the game far in favor of the mafia.

[Vicious89x]

Yup. I don't like what's going on right now, so I'm pretty sure I'm not going to go after Vic today, unless there's no other choice.

2 votes on WP now. I want to hear what Vic thinks about JT.

I'd be willing to push one of these guys, let the doc self protect as you say, and the SK can decide if he wants to go after one of the two, or another player, or play it safe and NO KILL.

Quite frankly I think they're both scum, playing very similar games but the problem with WP is he's very consistent. Scum or not, he plays this way. Your feelings on WP aren't too far off from what I feel on JT. Regardless at this point I haven't personally investigated SMC so to have pac survive a night phase, me not hit on NP is a perfect play for SMC/Pac for the fake role to vouch for the scum.

I'd rather not over-complicate here, so I'm sticking with the WP/JT idea.

[ZachEY]

That's your issue, guys?

You can lynch me today if every player agrees that, when I'm revealed as a townie, the SK will take out Vic tonight, that if he comes up as a sane cop you will lynch Pac tomorrow, and that if he's revealed as anything else you'll lynch Yellin.

Deal?

That's pretty interesting, actually.

[ZachEY]

I feel like Doggin is trying trap me...

Hmmmmmmm...

[ZachEY]

Quite frankly I think they're both scum, playing very similar games but the problem with WP is he's very consistent. Scum or not, he plays this way. Your feelings on WP aren't too far off from what I feel on JT. Regardless at this point I haven't personally investigated SMC so to have pac survive a night phase, me not hit on NP is a perfect play for SMC/Pac for the fake role to vouch for the scum.

I'd rather not over-complicate here, so I'm sticking with the WP/JT idea.

What do you think of Doggin's deal?

[CTM]

Vote Woody

I want to get woody within Lynch range and see if he has anything to say..

[ZachEY]

Vote Woody

I want to get woody within Lynch range and see if he has anything to say..

This puts him 1 away, no?

[Bleedin Green]

Vote Count:

WoodyPaige (3) - Pac2566, Norway, CTM

Vicious (2) - Doggin, Jets Things

Norway (1) - Vicious89x

With 10 players remaining, it takes 6 to cut.

[CTM]

This puts him 1 away, no?

heh.. I thought 2, actually it's 3..

I'd like to get him to L-2 and see if the pig squeals..

[ZachEY]

heh.. I thought 2, actually it's 3..

I'd like to get him to L-2 and see if the pig squeals..

Vote Woody

Lets see where that gets us.

[CTM]

Vote Woody

Lets see where that gets us.

If someone puts him at L-1 before he shows, make sure to unvote

[ZachEY]

If someone puts him at L-1 before he shows, make sure to unvote

Why do I get the feeling today has 'random lynch' written all over it.

[CTM]

Why do I get the feeling today has 'random lynch' written all over it.

Won't happen. There's been no action this weekend. If it does, at least our numbers are better this time around considering we've lost 3 more townies..

[Bleedin Green]

Vote Count:

WoodyPaige (4) - Pac2566, Norway, CTM, EY

Vicious (2) - Doggin, Jets Things

Norway (1) - Vicious89x

With 10 players remaining, it takes 6 to cut.

[WoodyPaige]

heh.. I thought 2, actually it's 3..

I'd like to get him to L-2 and see if the pig squeals..

Vote Woody

Lets see where that gets us.

If you guys thinks its the right move go for it. I am roleless but if you guys think we will get more information by lynching me than we would by lynching anybody else than fine by me.

[ZachEY]

If you guys thinks its the right move go for it. I am roleless but if you guys think we will get more information by lynching me than we would by lynching anybody else than fine by me.

Do you have any thoughts outside of yourself?

You've added nothing to the conversation when we've needed you to.

[CTM]

unvote

vote JetsThings

[CTM]

If you guys thinks its the right move go for it. I am roleless but if you guys think we will get more information by lynching me than we would by lynching anybody else than fine by me.

Roleless Townie?

[WoodyPaige]

Do you have any thoughts outside of yourself?

You've added nothing to the conversation when we've needed you to.

To be fair no one has. Its been you Doggin and CTM going at it since the AVM lynch.

[WoodyPaige]

Roleless Townie?

yes.

[Pac]

Woody who are you leaning on voting for?

[Doggin94it]

BTW, could somebody - anybody - who thinks we shouldn't lynch Vicious please tell me what we are going to do if:

1) we lynch an innocent today (so endgame is tomorrow); and

2) Vicious or Pac claims to have a guilty verdict on someone when they're both alive tomorrow?

[CTM]

BTW, could somebody - anybody - who thinks we shouldn't lynch Vicious please tell me what we are going to do if:

1) we lynch an innocent today (so endgame is tomorrow); and

2) Vicious or Pac claims to have a guilty verdict on someone when they're both alive tomorrow?

Say we lynch an innocent today, say Woody. The scum NK's, say EY, and the serial killer kills me. That would likely leave 7 alive and 3 scum, the doctor won't be killed, making 3 scum out of 6. Pac has confirmed SMC to my satisfaction, leaving 3 out of 5, which is better odds then we got now in the worst case scenario..

[ZachEY]

Say we lynch an innocent today, say Woody. The scum NK's, say EY, and the serial killer kills me. That would likely leave 7 alive and 3 scum, the doctor won't be killed, making 3 scum out of 6. Pac has confirmed SMC to my satisfaction, leaving 3 out of 5, which is better odds then we got now in the worst case scenario..

At this point, Pac has another name which he could release as well.

It's amazingly obvious that the serial killer is between two players right now.

[Doggin94it]

Say we lynch an innocent today, say Woody. The scum NK's, say EY, and the serial killer kills me. That would likely leave 7 alive and 3 scum, the doctor won't be killed, making 3 scum out of 6. Pac has confirmed SMC to my satisfaction, leaving 3 out of 5, which is better odds then we got now in the worst case scenario..

Lets leave you alive, say Slats and EY are NK'd and both turn up innocent. And lets say Pac says "I investigated CTM and got a guilty result"

What should the town do then?

Lynch you?

Lynch Pac?

Which?

[CTM]

Lets leave you alive, say Slats and EY are NK'd and both turn up innocent. And lets say Pac says "I investigated CTM and got a guilty result"

What should the town do then?

Lynch you?

Lynch Pac?

Which?

obv lynch Pac

I'm not sold on this plan, just making conversation..

I'd like to see about lynching JT's

[Doggin94it]

obv lynch Pac

I'm not sold on this plan, just making conversation..

I'd like to see about lynching JT's

In other words, you believe Pac - but you're not ready to say that Pac is 100% innocent who should be trusted in all situations. Because as long as Vicious is alive, you don't know. Which is why we can't leave competing finder claimants alive until endgame; if one of them is scum, and we guess wrong, we lose.

In fact, remember this exchange:

1) if Mafia would like to fake-counter claim they can be my guest..

2) Fake what? Remember it's only day 2, no need to rush. At some point one of these things will happen which will tell us Vic's alignment

a) The real cop finds scum and announces (now we know that Vic is scum and our cop, under cover, found a second partner)

The real cop is pressured and roleclaims during the day

c) The real cop turns up dead in a NK. (now we know Vic is guilty)

d) Vic gets a positive investigation and leads the lynch of scum (now vic looks 90% vetted and one of a, b or c will still happen if he's lieing)

What exactly is the danger in Vic being unclaimed and lieing? He's not going to claim a guilty on an innocent player to trade, unless they have some kind of power which allows them to investigate townie roles and he wants to trade for the doctor.

Or:

e) Mafia false-cop serves up a teammate and identifies another teammate and several townies as innocent, while real cop survives to endgame. Endgame arrives, real cop says "Hey, Vicious is a lying liar who lies, I'm the real cop" and we have no way to vet the claim - we need to lynch one or the other, with no way to test which is telling the truth.

If you get a counterclaim, on the other hand, you leave both alive and have them tell you their investigation results each night - lynching anyone identified as guilty. Every so often, the real finder cross-checks the false-finder's "innocent" results - if any of them come up guilty, then both scum are toast. The doc flips a coin to protect one of the claimants, and if he gets it wrong, we traded our finder for scum. If he gets it right (no kill that night) he protects the real finder the rest of the way.

Here's how it breaks down.

No counterclaim of false claimant:

Upside - real cop is hidden, can reveal when he has another scum guilty. His death will kill false claimant

Downside - real cop may die before revealing, preventing the town from getting any information beyond the false claimant (i.e. no way to know which innocents the cop investigated); real cop may survive to endgame, leaving town in the hands of fate.

Counterclaim:

Upside: Double barreled finder investigations - false claimant cannot misidentify innocents as guilty, true finder can sporadically (not every night) double check false claimant's results, any discrepancy nails 2 scum; consistent innocent results are confirmed true.

Downside: Doc may mis-protect, and cop dies - which still leaves us with one identified mafioso.

Basically, the downside of an immediate counterclaim is still fairly decent for the town - confirmed finder information (innocents investigated) and a dead mafia member, while the upside far outweighs that of not having a counterclaim. And the potential downsides of not having a counterclaim outweigh the upsides. It's just the wrong play.

If vic wants to serve up a team mate already down 1, I'll glady accept.

Remember this strategy is based on where we are in the game, it will evolve as the numbers change. The real cop will need to counter claim at some point before end game, I just don't think it's now, given that Vic was self voting this time yesterday (in game time)

And if the real cop is really clever he'll very subtly breadcrumb his results... just sayin

Remember, I've been pointing out the negatives of having two untested cop-claimants alive for endgame since Day 2.

We're now at endgame -1, which means that we cannot have both of these guys alive tomorrow. That's begging for a loss.

[Doggin94it]

At this point, Pac has another name which he could release as well.

It's amazingly obvious that the serial killer is between two players right now.

You know what's amazingly obvious?

That you're scum.

The town shouldn't care about identifying the Serial today. Today, the Serial killer is our friend. Today, we want the Serial to survive.

Yet you're more concerned with identifying the serial than with identifying mafia (you know, the reason why the town is in immanent danger of losing?).

Why is that, do you think?

[Doggin94it]

BTW, could somebody - anybody - who thinks we shouldn't lynch Vicious please tell me what we are going to do if:

1) we lynch an innocent today (so endgame is tomorrow); and

2) Vicious or Pac claims to have a guilty verdict on someone when they're both alive tomorrow?

Still waiting on an answer to this.

Lets make it more concrete. Both Vic and Pac are alive tomorrow. Pac says "CTM is innocent". Vic says "CTM is guilty".

What do we do?

[CTM]

In other words, you believe Pac - but you're not ready to say that Pac is 100% innocent who should be trusted in all situations. Because as long as Vicious is alive, you don't know. Which is why we can't leave competing finder claimants alive until endgame; if one of them is scum, and we guess wrong, we lose.

In fact, remember this exchange:

Remember, I've been pointing out the negatives of having two untested cop-claimants alive for endgame since Day 2.

We're now at endgame -1, which means that we cannot have both of these guys alive tomorrow. That's begging for a loss.

The smiley was a joke. Pac will not be saying CTM is guilty tomorrow. No way no how.

Another point re: SMC and Pac, linking them is dangerous and silly. Pac clearly is a finder of some sort. You know why? Cause if SMC was scum he wouldn't be Darrelle Revis, but somebody else would and would know they are lying. nobody has pointed this out.....

There's almost no question that a) Pac is a finder of some sort and SMC is innocent.

[Pac]

Still waiting on an answer to this.

Lets make it more concrete. Both Vic and Pac are alive tomorrow. Pac says "CTM is innocent". Vic says "CTM is guilty".

What do we do?

Or are you concerned I come back tomorrow and say Doggin is guilty?

Is it possible all your conjecture is a preemptive defense to this inevitability?

[ZachEY]

You know what's amazingly obvious?

That you're scum.

The town shouldn't care about identifying the Serial today. Today, the Serial killer is our friend. Today, we want the Serial to survive.

Yet you're more concerned with identifying the serial than with identifying mafia (you know, the reason why the town is in immanent danger of losing?).

Why is that, do you think?

You're putting words in my mouth.

[Doggin94it]

The smiley was a joke. Pac will not be saying CTM is guilty tomorrow. No way no how.

Another point re: SMC and Pac, linking them is dangerous and silly. Pac clearly is a finder of some sort. You know why? Cause if SMC was scum he wouldn't be Darrelle Revis, but somebody else would and would know they are lying. nobody has pointed this out.....

There's almost no question that a) Pac is a finder of some sort and SMC is innocent.

Sure . . . because it's guaranteed that in a 16 player game Darrelle Revis is one of the Jets players? (Especially if you assume Pac is telling the truth and at least 2 of the townies are FO people)?

Look, I'm leaning towards Pac being innocent too - but if that's true, that's all the more reason to lynch Vic.