Mafia Game Thread--The Thing

[SMC]

MOD NOTE: I stand by the original game instructions.

[Integrity28]

The only pro I see to releasing that name is we lynch then and they're scum... we can then assume who they've visited is now scum as well.

conversely if we lynch and that player is innocent we just knocked it down to 7-4 and JVOR is a dead man walking because he's sure to be the target in the next couple nights....

yuck to all of this.

Wait, if we release the name, lynch that person, it means that the person they visited is scum too? I don't think that assumption is so automatic.

[Pac]

MOD NOTE: I stand by the original game instructions.

gfy

[slats]

The only pro I see to releasing that name is we lynch then and they're scum... we can then assume who they've visited is now scum as well.

conversely if we lynch and that player is innocent we just knocked it down to 7-4 and JVOR is a dead man walking because he's sure to be the target in the next couple nights....

yuck to all of this.

Role reveals suck in this game. It would be bad enough having them killed, but the idea that they can be converted makes them practically useless to the town from that point forward.

And now you have JVoR, who's reveal I'm much less than thrilled with already asking for doc protection:

If there is a protective doctor be on me. Ideally a shrink or witch doctor role as well if that's out there. Even if you think i'm full of crap (which i'm not) you should not wifom at least for tonight.

Which, even if he's telling the truth, then leaves the doc open to being converted. And if he's scum, well, he helps to get the doc unprotected at least for tonight.

I don't like this at all.

[Pac]

Wait, if we release the name, lynch that person, it means that the person they visited is scum too? I don't think that assumption is so automatic.

Why not?! Scum visit to kill or in our game covert.... I suppose if they were blocked by a Doc the person they visited could be innocent but at this early juncture that's too much of a perfect storm no?

[Vicious89x]

Role reveals suck in this game. It would be bad enough having them killed, but the idea that they can be converted makes them practically useless to the town from that point forward.

And now you have JVoR, who's reveal I'm much less than thrilled with already asking for doc protection:

Which, even if he's telling the truth, then leaves the doc open to being converted. And if he's scum, well, he helps to get the doc unprotected at least for tonight.

I don't like this at all.

Eff that noise, the doctor should continue self protecting IMO.

I found something on Wiki, don't know how it'd apply here:

Aside from Mafia, Werewolves, and Serial Killers (solitary guilty parties), the Innocents may have some roles with the ability to kill at night. The Vigilante is an "innocent" who kills every night, in his own night-time phase,[28] in some variations, having a limited "bullet" supply for the entire game. Some variations introduce a time limit of two nights before the player in the Killing Role can exercise his right to kill again. The Bomb may only trigger if targeted at night (not necessarily for death) by another role. Variants exist where this person can kill during the daytime cycle (e.g., the Terrorist / Gravedigger), sometimes only if executed during the daytime (e.g., the Hunter / Village Bicycle)

[slats]

Eff that noise, the doctor should continue self protecting IMO.

I agree with that.

Even if we all agree that the protector in this game -if there even is one- does the old coin toss to choose between protecting JVoR and him/herself, it's going to be very hard to trust anything JVoR says in this game from here on out. He's obviously a conversion target right now, and he'll be top of the list for the town the moment there's another conversion.

I think I'd be willing to lynch JVoR on the possibility that this is a BS reveal, and the fact that his role is useless to us as soon as there's another conversion if it's not.

I need to think it thru, though.

[CTM]

gah.. this **** has to happen during my meeting block .. back in 1-1/2 hours

fwiw.. hes escrbinbg a tracker/watcher.. usually you only are 1 or only get 1 result.. That doesn't mean he's lieing, SMC could've been lax with the role.. or juiced it up cause the scum is pwoerful..

and also, since we know an assimiliation occured uring the day, I wouldn't reveal any names as those names are probably other townie power roles..

unvote

[Pac]

A terrible storm has trapped the team, knocking out radio communication with the outside world and making helicopter and tractor inoperable. But that is the least of their worries. Among them is some sort of

[Vicious89x]

I agree with that.

Even if we all agree that the protector in this game -if there even is one- does the old coin toss to choose between protecting JVoR and him/herself, it's going to be very hard to trust anything JVoR says in this game from here on out. He's obviously a conversion target right now, and he'll be top of the list for the town the moment there's another conversion.

I think I'd be willing to lynch JVoR on the possibility that this is a BS reveal, and the fact that his role is useless to us as soon as there's another conversion if it's not.

I need to think it thru, though.

Plus we need to think of it two ways too:

1) He's scum, we let him live, there's a night time conversion thus validating his role, letting him hang around longer. It'd be a move to gain our trust. When I got converted in the mafia game I gave up a scum member the first day to validate myself as the cop.

2) He's not scum, he's town and he's essentially relegated himself to being another doctor who can only find out innocents. If I'm mafia I just save my conversions for the daytime when he can't watch me. In that case he's put us in a worse position if he had just tried to fight a littler harder. Say whatever you want about me but my reveals came after trying to convince, and failing.

[SMC]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT--DAY 2

Integrity (1) -- Sharrow

Sharrow (4) -- JVoR, Crusher, Integrity, JiF

Crusher (1) -- Bleedin' Green

JVoR (1) -- Vicious

With 11 Research Team Members, it takes 6 to torch.

[Integrity28]

Ok, i'd say that's enough for now since I'm pretty sure BG would locked into me at this point anyways.

I've pretty much been a scumball for the entire game and have been very wary of those with a townie feel on me.

Since a deadline is actually approaching pretty soon i'm just going to reveal now so you don't bother wasting time voting me. I'm town and I have the ability to watch a room at night to see who visits and if the person left the room. Yesterday I got a person visiting at night.

I could reveal that person but my gut feeling is the person i saw visiting was the cop. if u want me to i can just do it to verify me.

Because I said so.

Honestly though- because the guy has been ridiculously inactive the entire game, drops a bomb on us and now has us at full attention. Like Dan X's avatar. SEE WHAT I DID THERE?

Even with him being a watcher, does it explain his odd behavior? I figure someone so pro-town would have developed stronger cases rather than lurk hardcore only to drop the reveal on us. The sequence of events seems really off to me. If we're wrong today on him we're still in the same spot if we lynch another townie. That's why for me it's important we come to an agreement on the possibilities of the day/night phases. How much value does his role really have?

It's just... odd to me. So we drop JVoR and who do you think we look at next?

I tend to agree with your position here.

I'd like a better explanation from JVOR of why it serves the Watcher role best to "be a scumball for the entire game?"

[Jets Voice of Reason]

I tend to agree with your position here.

I'd like a better explanation from JVOR of why it serves the Watcher role best to "be a scumball for the entire game?"

It wasn't exactly my intent. Being a power role is hard because you have to maintain enough suspicion so they don't night kill you and not suspicious so they don't lynch you. I wasn't trying to get all this attention, i just agreed if you had to observe my gameplay it wasn't exactly the most townie-like.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Ok looking at SMC's into again it's pretty clear day or night...

As Vic astutely pointed out I'd like JVOR to explain the benefit of the watcher role in this type of game.

I just happened to choose to watch at night. I can choose during the day but i can only tell him which one I want at night. i.e i have to make the decision. I picked night because how the hell do i know if there are any day actions at all?

[Integrity28]

It wasn't exactly my intent. Being a power role is hard because you have to maintain enough suspicion so they don't night kill you and not suspicious so they don't lynch you. I wasn't trying to get all this attention, i just agreed if you had to observe my gameplay it wasn't exactly the most townie-like.

The equation makes sense... the fact that you only attempted half of it is what doesn't.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

What are you even talking about. You guys suspected me for being very defensive (i.e. early in the game) and when I try not to draw attention to myself you get on my butt to. What exactly do you want me to do. If I play the exact same way as a roleless townie i'd be getting night killed. In case you haven't noticed, It's been a long time since i haven't been night killed within the first 2 days and that's not exactly by accident.

[Vicious89x]

What are you even talking about. You guys suspected me for being very defensive (i.e. early in the game) and when I try not to draw attention to myself you get on my butt to. What exactly do you want me to do. If I play the exact same way as a roleless townie i'd be getting night killed. In case you haven't noticed, It's been a long time since i haven't been night killed within the first 2 days and that's not exactly by accident.

You. Butter. Bikini.

That's what I want.

[slats]

What are you even talking about. You guys suspected me for being very defensive (i.e. early in the game) and when I try not to draw attention to myself you get on my butt to. What exactly do you want me to do. If I play the exact same way as a roleless townie i'd be getting night killed. In case you haven't noticed, It's been a long time since i haven't been night killed within the first 2 days and that's not exactly by accident.

This being a conversion game, we don't know if you've made it thru two days here, either.

[Pac]

I just happened to choose to watch at night. I can choose during the day but i can only tell him which one I want at night. i.e i have to make the decision. I picked night because how the hell do i know if there are any day actions at all?

[Vicious89x]

TEH PHAIL

I get the point though.

[Pac]

TEH PHAIL

I get the point though.

had to edit... just a pic and I didn't like the fail.

[Vicious89x]

had to edit... just a pic and I didn't like the fail.

Ah, the hawk in awe, always a good choice.

[Pac]

Gotta go back to work till 8 then the gym til 10... I initially was very hesitant to vote JVOR but these recent posts are suspect at best.

Why even go through the trouble of creating the role when it doesn't tell you who's guilty or innocent but more importantly only works if you pick the right phase... the fact he had to choose the right phase was a pretty important bit of info to leave out of the initial reveal.

I'd like to hear from everyone but I'm ok putting a vote back there depending on what others think.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Gotta go back to work till 8 then the gym til 10... I initially was very hesitant to vote JVOR but these recent posts are suspect at best.

Why even go through the trouble of creating the role when it doesn't tell you who's guilty or innocent but more importantly only works if you pick the right phase... the fact he had to choose the right phase was a pretty important bit of info to leave out of the initial reveal.

I'd like to hear from everyone but I'm ok putting a vote back there depending on what others think.

Ask anybody who played CTM's game. CTM, Crusher and Sharrow can tell you that in that game you were the watcher OR tracker but you weren't told what any night action was you just had to deduce the info.

If you really don't trust me then lynch me. I gave what I had to say. If you want to lynch a power role and shoot yourselves in the foot, that's your business.

[Integrity28]

I just happened to choose to watch at night. I can choose during the day but i can only tell him which one I want at night. i.e i have to make the decision. I picked night because how the hell do i know if there are any day actions at all?

Really? You just decided to "oh by the way" mention you can watch rooms in the day as well??? I'm not sure I am buying any of this... You were very explicit in your reveal and throughout in making this sound like your role's "night" action.

See...

Ok, i'd say that's enough for now since I'm pretty sure BG would locked into me at this point anyways.

I've pretty much been a scumball for the entire game and have been very wary of those with a townie feel on me.

Since a deadline is actually approaching pretty soon i'm just going to reveal now so you don't bother wasting time voting me. I'm town and I have the ability to watch a room at night to see who visits and if the person left the room. Yesterday I got a person visiting at night.

I could reveal that person but my gut feeling is the person i saw visiting was the cop. if u want me to i can just do it to verify me.

Then there is this... where you speculate about how you think we are only in the rooms at night. There is definitely some conflicting information here. IF you knew all along you could also "watch rooms" during the day, then why would you even make the statement that you are under the impression that at night [only] we are individually in rooms?

I'm not going to go into semantics of pms but i am under the impression that at night we are individually in rooms and I am able to watch a person's room. I see if player X leaves the room and I am able to see who visits player x.

Last night Player X did not leave the room, but someone visited Player X.

If there is a protective doctor be on me. Ideally a shrink or witch doctor role as well if that's out there. Even if you think i'm full of crap (which i'm not) you should not wifom at least for tonight.

Finally you say you weren't given any other info... yet, at this point you still hadn't mentioned the fact that you could watch in teh day.

I was not given any other information as to what a visit means or person not leaving the room means.

I'm just assuming that it's cop, it could've been mafia visiting as well.

Person not leaving the room means they don't have a night action i'm presuming.

In CTM's game, mafia had to choose which person to submitted the kill. Presumably you could've had tracked mafia that didn't do anything that particular night.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Really? You just decided to "oh by the way" mention you can watch rooms in the day as well??? I'm not sure I am buying any of this... You were very explicit in your reveal and throughout in making this sound like your role's "night" action.

See...

Then there is this... where you speculate about how you think we are only in the rooms at night. There is definitely some conflicting information here. IF you knew all along you could also "watch rooms" during the day, then why would you even make the statement that you are under the impression that at night [only] we are individually in rooms?

Finally you say you weren't given any other info... yet, at this point you still hadn't mentioned the fact that you could watch in teh day.

I was just responding to Pac's wording about us being all in the same room at night. I'm not going into PM specifics beyond that.

Reread the quote. What's that beyond the bolded text? oh yeah, as to what a visit means

[slats]

Ask anybody who played CTM's game. CTM, Crusher and Sharrow can tell you that in that game you were the watcher OR tracker but you weren't told what any night action was you just had to deduce the info.

If you really don't trust me then lynch me. I gave what I had to say. If you want to lynch a power role and shoot yourselves in the foot, that's your business.

Yeah, but that's what I said right off the bat - weren't there watchers and/or trackers on the two scum teams? (we are talking about the reverse double mafia game, right?) I distinctly remember EY talking about how he had his own mafia watcher watch him, knowing that he'd be a target of of the other team, and many roled townies.

This just sounds like a scum role that you may actually have that you're trying to pass off as a town role. But I really don't see how it's of much use for a townie. Powerful for scum, though.

[Sharrow]

Ask anybody who played CTM's game. CTM, Crusher and Sharrow can tell you that in that game you were the watcher OR tracker but you weren't told what any night action was you just had to deduce the info.

If you really don't trust me then lynch me. I gave what I had to say. If you want to lynch a power role and shoot yourselves in the foot, that's your business.

Weren't you a tracker/watcher in that game? Or were you a roleblocker? I remember someone on the town tracked a scum Jets Babe to my house and then followed her to I think Woody Page's house where he was locked up, and that's how she got caught.

[Integrity28]

I was just responding to Pac's wording about us being all in the same room at night. I'm not going into PM specifics beyond that.

Reread the quote. What's that beyond the bolded text? oh yeah, as to what a visit means

It doesn't matter what it says beyond the bolded text. The fact that you used that statement implied that you were disclosing everything... then you added a new wrinkle. I am not the only one that noticed it either.

I see you conveniently decided not to even bother addressing the more solid points in my post. Well done.

Lets say we believe you... and we don't lynch you and you are telling the truth. In the next night or day phase scum definitely has to consider assimilating you and having you feed us one wifom after another as we won't know whether to trust you...

Lynching you is pretty much the only way to guarantee your reveal is not used against us.

[Integrity28]

Weren't you a tracker/watcher in that game? Or were you a roleblocker? I remember someone on the town tracked a scum Jets Babe to my house and then followed her to I think Woody Page's house where he was locked up, and that's how she got caught.

I think that was Crusher, he referred to something like this earlier.

[Sharrow]

Yeah, but that's what I said right off the bat - weren't there watchers and/or trackers on the two scum teams? (we are talking about the reverse double mafia game, right?) I distinctly remember EY talking about how he had his own mafia watcher watch him, knowing that he'd be a target of of the other team, and many roled townies.

This just sounds like a scum role that you may actually have that you're trying to pass off as a town role. But I really don't see how it's of much use for a townie. Powerful for scum, though.

That's right, there was a tracker on both our scum team, which was JVOR, and one for the town.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

It doesn't matter what it says beyond the bolded text. The fact that you used that statement implied that you were disclosing everything... then you added a new wrinkle. I am not the only one that noticed it either.

I see you conveniently decided not to even bother addressing the more solid points in my post. Well done.

Lets say we believe you... and we don't lynch you and you are telling the truth. In the next night or day phase scum definitely has to consider assimilating you and having you feed us one wifom after another as we won't know whether to trust you...

Lynching you is pretty much the only way to guarantee your reveal is not used against us.

Have at it. CTM visited JiF last night. Jif did not leave his room.

[Sharrow]

It doesn't matter what it says beyond the bolded text. The fact that you used that statement implied that you were disclosing everything... then you added a new wrinkle. I am not the only one that noticed it either.

I see you conveniently decided not to even bother addressing the more solid points in my post. Well done.

Lets say we believe you... and we don't lynch you and you are telling the truth. In the next night or day phase scum definitely has to consider assimilating you and having you feed us one wifom after another as we won't know whether to trust you...

Lynching you is pretty much the only way to guarantee your reveal is not used against us.

They basically have to, don't they? I mean, if they're tracked to their conversion, and one of them dies, we get a 2 for 1 with the results. Then again, after the first conversion, we won't really be able to trust JVOR anyway.

[Vicious89x]

It doesn't matter what it says beyond the bolded text. The fact that you used that statement implied that you were disclosing everything... then you added a new wrinkle. I am not the only one that noticed it either.

I see you conveniently decided not to even bother addressing the more solid points in my post. Well done.

Lets say we believe you... and we don't lynch you and you are telling the truth. In the next night or day phase scum definitely has to consider assimilating you and having you feed us one wifom after another as we won't know whether to trust you...

Lynching you is pretty much the only way to guarantee your reveal is not used against us.

That's my other issue with keeping him around as well. It's easy enough to assimilate him and use him against us now. His usefulness is marginal to us now especially because I don't want the doctor even risking protecting him.

[slats]

That's right, there was a tracker on both our scum team, which was JVOR, and one for the town.

Yeah...

See, in a game like that, where there are two scum teams and they both have watchers or trackers, it makes sense that the town would have a role like that, too.

But in a game like this, where the scum team started out most likely very small, why would the town need to have a watcher-type role? It doesn't make any sense to me.

Makes a lot of sense, though, that one of the original two scum players (again, if that's what they started with) would have a role like that to help balance the game against so many townies - especially if the town has a few roles of it's own.