Parcells back into coaching!!!

[billo83]

I keep hearing that. he was over ruled ONCE in New England, and that was all it took. and that was over Terry Glenn (in 1996, his last year there)

So, who was the GM in New England?

So you're telling me that your hero cried, bitched, complained, and whined his fat a$$ out of town because of one player? Yeah, right. If you believe that, I have some land I want to sell you. I promise it has a great scenic view.

[BP]

So you're telling me that your hero cried, bitched, complained, and whined his fat a$$ out of town because of one player? Yeah, right. If you believe that, I have some land I want to sell you. I promise it has a great scenic view.

heh heh, cant answer the question, can you? thats what happened, if you have something of relevance about the drafting by the Patriots and who was responsible I am all ears.

I agree he is fat, and he was crying. but thats all you are going by?

[billo83]

heh heh, cant answer the question, can you? thats what happened, if you have something of relevance about the drafting by the Patriots and who was responsible I am all ears.

I agree he is fat, and he was crying. but thats all you are going by?

No, I'm saying that Kraft was the one controlling the team. Can you show me anything that lists the Tuna as the GM or VP for the Pats*? Why do you think the fat a$$ wanted out of there? Because he wanted full control of a team, I.E. a GM/VP role.

Regardless, I've stated from the beginning that the Tuna is a great coach and my evaluation of him is strictly as an exclusive GM/VP, I.E. not as a coach and GM. Is that really too hard for you and Tom Shane to understand?

[BP]

No, I'm saying that Kraft was the one controlling the team. Can you show me anything that lists the Tuna as the GM or VP for the Pats*? Why do you think the fat a$$ wanted out of there? Because he wanted full control of a team, I.E. a GM/VP role.

Regardless, I've stated from the beginning that the Tuna is a great coach and my evaluation of him is strictly as an exclusive GM/VP, I.E. not as a coach and GM. Is that really too hard for you and Tom Shane to understand?

Dude, he was hired by another owner. Kraft purchased the team AFTER Parcells was hired. so who was in charge of the draft before Robert Kraft purchased the team?

[billo83]

Dude, he was hired by another owner. Kraft purchased the team AFTER Parcells was hired. so who was in charge of the draft before Robert Kraft purchased the team?

OK, I stand corrected on that one then. My memory is definitely fuzzy on that one.

However, I stand by what I said for when Kraft was the owner. Logically speaking, the Tuna would not force his way out of town if he was truly the GM. He had just coached them to the SB, so if he was buying the groceries, why would he leave?

Let me ask you something, do you think the Pats* success is due to the Tuna since you think he was the GM?

[BP]

OK, I stand corrected on that one then. My memory is definitely fuzzy on that one.

However, I stand by what I said for when Kraft was the owner. Logically speaking, the Tuna would not force his way out of town if he was truly the GM. He had just coached them to the SB, so if he was buying the groceries, why would he leave?

Listen, Kraft is not a football person. he tried telling bellichick something in 2001 and was told to back off. and he did, guess why? he didnt want to piss off mumbles like he pissed off Parcells. he actually learned from a mistake. Parcells ran the show until he got over ruled in the 96 draft. after that he disliked Kraft.

Let me ask you something, do you think the Pats* success is due to the Tuna since you think he was the GM?

That's a pretty vague question. do you mean the recent success with super bowls? or being a winning franchise for the past 15 years?

[victorjets]

No, I'm saying that Kraft was the one controlling the team. Can you show me anything that lists the Tuna as the GM or VP for the Pats*? Why do you think the fat a$$ wanted out of there? Because he wanted full control of a team, I.E. a GM/VP role.

Regardless, I've stated from the beginning that the Tuna is a great coach and my evaluation of him is strictly as an exclusive GM/VP, I.E. not as a coach and GM. Is that really too hard for you and Tom Shane to understand?

Kraft only owned the stadium when Parcells was hired. The relationship was never good but Parcells was running the show. When Kraft began to question some of Parcells moves and eventually diminished his powers, Big Tuna dropped out. But he was the one who built that team.

[billo83]

Listen, Kraft is not a football person. he tried telling bellichick something in 2001 and was told to back off. and he did, guess why? he didnt want to piss off mumbles like he pissed off Parcells. he actually learned from a mistake. Parcells ran the show until he got over ruled in the 96 draft. after that he disliked Kraft.

That's a pretty vague question. do you mean the recent success with super bowls? or being a winning franchise for the past 15 years?

1. Not sure what you mean exactly by football person, but he was a football fan for years and probably knows as much as any of us around here. Regardless of that, I still don't believe the fat one forced his way out over one player. I think there was much, much more going on behind the scenes.

2. Tom Shane seems to think that any team Tuna touches winds up being better for at least 5 years after he quits. I just wanted to get your input on that since you seem to agreeing with him. So I guess the question would reflect the 5 seasons after he quit on them.

BTW - again, my opinion is on Tuna in a exclusive GM/VP role, and not when is the HC. We could argue whether or not he was a true GM in NE* or Dallas until the cows come home, but the fact is he was the HC (and did not have the title of GM) for both teams. So in that respect what I have been debating does not apply here.

[BP]

1. Not sure what you mean exactly by football person, but he was a football fan for years and probably knows as much as any of us around here. Regardless of that, I still don't believe the fat one forced his way out over one player. I think there was much, much more going on behind the scenes.

2. Tom Shane seems to think that any team Tuna touches winds up being better for at least 5 years after he quits. I just wanted to get your input on that since you seem to agreeing with him. So I guess the question would reflect the 5 season after he quit on them.

BTW - again, my opinion is on Tuna in a exclusive GM/VP role, and not when is the HC. We could argue whether or not he was a true GM in NE* or Dallas until the cows come home, but the fact is he was the HC (and did not have the title of GM) for both teams. So in that respect what I have been debating does not apply here.

Let me tell you something. when he took over the Jets he showed everybody in the Jets organization just how clueless they were.

1) The Jets didnt have a strength and conditioning coach until Parcells arrived.

2)there was no mandatory off season conditioning program until Parcells arrived.

3)the Jets did not have a practice bubble until Parcells arrived

Let me explain to you how important this was. I remember when the Jets clinched a playoff birth in Miami in 98. on the last drive in that heat and humidity the Dolphins wide receivers were gassed while the Jets defensive backs werent even breathing hard.

He put a lot of the guide lines in place in the organization thats still here to this day. let me ask you, what did coaching have to do with that?

did he make mistakes in the draft? sure! so do a lot of people. he sure didnt **** up in 2000. he drafted abraham and Ellis and Pennington (lol and Becht (lol)

Now, I don't think he's even coaching material anymore to be honest. hes lost that fire, I saw it in Dallas. and after seeing what hes done in Miami I think he should just retire before he takes a dirt nap on the field.

But if you put him down for what he did for the Jets you are crazy.

[billo83]

Kraft only owned the stadium when Parcells was hired. The relationship was never good but Parcells was running the show. When Kraft began to question some of Parcells moves and eventually diminished his powers, Big Tuna dropped out. But he was the one who built that team.

I already stated that I stand corrected on when Kraft took over (must be going senile, or its the alcohol). Anyway, you basically confirmed what I was saying once Kraft took over.

Another thing I'll mention since you stated that the Tuna built the team: After the Tuna quit, the Pats* went .500 and 1-2 in the playoffs until Tom Brady arrived (which the Tuna had nothing to do with). Doesn't that show Tuna the coach had a lot more to do with the Pats* success than the Tuna's supposed GM abilities (I still don't agree he was a GM, but I'll grant you that for this example).

[billo83]

Let me tell you something. when he took over the Jets he showed everybody in the Jets organization just how clueless they were.

1) The Jets didnt have a strength and conditioning coach until Parcells arrived.

2)there was no mandatory off season conditioning program until Parcells arrived.

3)the Jets did not have a practice bubble until Parcells arrived

Let me explain to you how important this was. I remember when the Jets clinched a playoff birth in Miami in 98. on the last drive in that heat and humidity the Dolphins wide receivers were gassed while the Jets defensive backs werent even breathing hard.

He put a lot of the guide lines in place in the organization thats still here to this day. let me ask you, what did coaching have to do with that?

did he make mistakes in the draft? sure! so do a lot of people. he sure didnt **** up in 2000. he drafted abraham and Ellis and Pennington (lol and Becht (lol)

Now, I don't think he's even coaching material anymore to be honest. hes lost that fire, I saw it in Dallas. and after seeing what hes done in Miami I think he should just retire before he takes a dirt nap on the field.

But if you put him down for what he did for the Jets you are crazy.

Well we do agree on some things!

First let me say that I'm not putting the Tuna down for what he did for the Jets. The '98 season was special, and I traveled up to see a game from Virginia and had an absolute blast. There's no disputing that Tuna the coach was one of the best ever. I was also there for the last game of the '99 season. I'll never forget when all of us were chanting "One more year". He then turned his back on us.

Let me tell you the problems I have with the Tuna and I'll address the rest of your post.

First - he is a quitter. Ever since leaving the Giants, he has never seen any other venture through. Supposedly the most important thing to him was full control of the team, and then money. Woody offered him full control and a blank checkbook to stay with the team. But he quits on him citing health concerns, burnout, etc. and promptly retires. Then he resurfaces a mere 2 or 3 years later to coach the Boys. Great retirement there Bill.

Second - He could have got us Peyton Manning, but instead wanted to trade down in the draft prompting Peyton to stay in school. Probably the biggest blunder ever in Jets history.

Third - Although he is a great coach, he simply is not a great GM/VP. I've stated my case several times, so I won't go any further.

Now on to your post:

Yes, I agree that the Jets were in total disarray when he took over. Yes he did make several wise changes. However, I think you give him too much credit here. Any competent GM, HC, or football man would have made the same or similar changes. Don't you think Rex or Tanny would have done something similar?

2000 draft - Seriously dude, how does anyone screw up with 4, repeat 4 first round picks unless your name is Kotite? To tell you the truth, I don't think he did a awesome job there either (good, but not great). Ellis was the best pick of the bunch. He's been solid for sure, but not an elite player. Abe was often injured and never showed up for the big games, and then was traded. At the risk of starting another old debate, Penny was not a great QB. Becht you already confirmed.

The rest of your post I agree with. It's high time the Tuna stops pulling a Farve and retire for good once and for all.

[BP]

Well we do agree on some things!

First let me say that I'm not putting the Tuna down for what he did for the Jets. The '98 season was special, and I traveled up to see a game from Virginia and had an absolute blast. There's no disputing that Tuna the coach was one of the best ever. I was also there for the last game of the '99 season. I'll never forget when all of us were chanting "One more year". He then turned his back on us.

Let me tell you the problems I have with the Tuna and I'll address the rest of your post.

First - he is a quitter. Ever since leaving the Giants, he has never seen any other venture through. Supposedly the most important thing to him was full control of the team, and then money. Woody offered him full control and a blank checkbook to stay with the team. But he quits on him citing health concerns, burnout, etc. and promptly retires. Then he resurfaces a mere 2 or 3 years later to coach the Boys. Great retirement there Bill.

Second - He could have got us Peyton Manning, but instead wanted to trade down in the draft prompting Peyton to stay in school. Probably the biggest blunder ever in Jets history.

Third - Although he is a great coach, he simply is not a great GM/VP. I've stated my case several times, so I won't go any further.

Now on to your post:

Yes, I agree that the Jets were in total disarray when he took over. Yes he did make several wise changes. However, I think you give him too much credit here. Any competent GM, HC, or football man would have made the same or similar changes. Don't you think Rex or Tanny would have done something similar?

2000 draft - Seriously dude, how does anyone screw up with 4, repeat 4 first round picks unless your name is Kotite? To tell you the truth, I don't think he did a awesome job there either (good, but not great). Ellis was the best pick of the bunch. He's been solid for sure, but not an elite player. Abe was often injured and never showed up for the big games, and then was traded. At the risk of starting another old debate, Penny was not a great QB. Becht you already confirmed.

The rest of your post I agree with. It's high time the Tuna stops pulling a Farve and retire for good once and for all.

He looks like a quitter, but if you look at the ownership changes at every stop he's been at (except Jerry Jones), those were the reasons he left. he came right out and said that had Leon Hess not died he would have coached the Jets for a while. he left the Patriots because of Kraft, and he left the Jets because of Woody (and thats probably why Mumbles left too). Parcells was the ONLY person at that time that could have turned the Jets around. even before Kotite the Jets had monumental collapses in 93 and 94 at the end of those years and quit on two different coaches.

and Abraham was getting coached correctly until some idiot showed up in 2001 and started coddling him. Herm Edwards ruined John Abraham. lol at his upset tummy in a playoff game. dont forget, ''before he was a football player, he was a man''<--Herm quotes about abraham druink driving and damien Robinson shotgun at stadium after 9/11 that I dont get.

[DMaynard]

It really is true. There is no fool like an old fool. Sad ...

[32GreenIsGod]

This fat tub of goo has everyone hornswaggeled.

WTF has he accomplished in the last 10 years?

[billo83]

He looks like a quitter, but if you look at the ownership changes at every stop he's been at (except Jerry Jones), those were the reasons he left. he came right out and said that had Leon Hess not died he would have coached the Jets for a while. he left the Patriots because of Kraft, and he left the Jets because of Woody (and thats probably why Mumbles left too). Parcells was the ONLY person at that time that could have turned the Jets around. even before Kotite the Jets had monumental collapses in 93 and 94 at the end of those years and quit on two different coaches.

and Abraham was getting coached correctly until some idiot showed up in 2001 and started coddling him. Herm Edwards ruined John Abraham. lol at his upset tummy in a playoff game. dont forget, ''before he was a football player, he was a man''<--Herm quotes about abraham druink driving and damien Robinson shotgun at stadium after 9/11 that I dont get.

He is a quitter, no matter how you want to sugar coat it.

Do you quit your job every time there's a ownership/management change, or do you try to see things through and sand ee how things work out?

He quit on Kraft because he wanted full control of the team. Then he quits on Woody when he offered him full control and all the money he could possibly want. IIRC, Woody had just bought the team, so there wasn't any history between them. Why couldn't he at least give it a try for a year? Belicheat quit because of the Tuna and Kraft not Woody, come on man. He then quits on Dallas, and then quits on the Phags Mid Season. An honorable man would have at least finished the season. There really is no excuse for that.

Simply put, the Tuna gets bored/tired with each gig and quits before the job is done. He says he's retiring only to take another gig a couple of years later.

I can't remember who was available at the time, but I have a hard time believing he was the only guy in the entire league that could turn the ship around. Now he did have the coaching resume, so I give him credit for that, and ultimately that may have made him more attractive then other candidates.

As far as Abe, I can't say that I've really followed him since he was traded. I don't remember hearing his name that often, but I can't honestly comment on him now. I can only say what he did for the Jets and we have already covered that.

If you want to say Abe's tenure here was ruined by Herm, then it is fair to say the Tuna ruined Farrior and Hugh Douglas tenure here to name a few.

[bobbyjet69]

Parcells would be absolutely perfect for the Panthers. Get them back on their feet to the point where they can hand the job off to a young up-and-comer.

the Panthers owner does not want to spend money, John Fox is a good coach who has no players

[Sperm Edwards]

He looks like a quitter, but if you look at the ownership changes at every stop he's been at (except Jerry Jones), those were the reasons he left. he came right out and said that had Leon Hess not died he would have coached the Jets for a while. he left the Patriots because of Kraft, and he left the Jets because of Woody (and thats probably why Mumbles left too). Parcells was the ONLY person at that time that could have turned the Jets around. even before Kotite the Jets had monumental collapses in 93 and 94 at the end of those years and quit on two different coaches.

and Abraham was getting coached correctly until some idiot showed up in 2001 and started coddling him. Herm Edwards ruined John Abraham. lol at his upset tummy in a playoff game. dont forget, ''before he was a football player, he was a man''<--Herm quotes about abraham druink driving and damien Robinson shotgun at stadium after 9/11 that I dont get.

He didn't leave the Jets because of Woody. Woody would have kissed his a$ and worked his tongue all the way up until it reached the duodenum. Woody BADLY wanted Parcells to stay here.

Parcells stepped down for one reason: because it kept Kraft from offering the Pats HC job to BB. And to further teach BB a lesson in who's who in scumbag class, he stayed on as GM so he would still be BB's boss even after stepping down.

Then a year later, BB is 6-10 in NE and he awards awful going-away contracts to unworthy (one had like a $9M bonus to Bryan Cox or something like that) and hired a total zero to take his place. The idea being that this team would head straight downhill (and NE would continue to do so) after his departure, further convincing everyone how awesome he was. Also getting out of that contract meant he wouldn't have to split a new coaching contract with his soon-to-be ex-wife. Some months later he was going to take the Tampa HC job after Dungy was axe, but his divorce took a little longer than expected and therefore he'd have to split his entire Tampa contract with her 50/50. So then suddenly and unexpectedly (from Tampa's POV), he ditched them also, and only after his divorce was finalized a year later did he accept the Cowboys HC job for the following season.

Parcells had no issues with Woody Johnson that I remember reading anywhere. Woody did nothing but try to appease and placate Parcells to stay and would have given him anything he wanted, just as surely as he accepted any unqualified recommendation (Bradway) from Parcells as to who should be his replacement. Notice he didn't recommend Tannenbaum back then. Not because he thought he was unworthy, since Bradway didn't know dick about player contracts, salary cap, and cap value. But rather, because he wanted to bring Tannenbaum with him to Tampa.

Mumbles left because he didn't want to work for Parcells anymore, and after the little hahaha f-you Parcells did by stepping down - done only because he knew a deal was in place for BB to go to Kraft in Foxboro - I can't say I blame him. Also what grown man wants to be known as Tuna Helper, no matter what kind of scumbag he is himself? Ultimately, Mumbles left because he had a better opportunity in NE, being given the job by Kraft for $2M more per season out of desire to have him, rather than being given the job by Parcells just to screw Kraft (and BB who was "betraying" him).

Parcells left to escape his then-current contract with the Jets, which he would have had to split with his ex-wife since he signed that deal while they were married. In other words, Parcells left for money (either because he wanted more for himself, because he wanted to make damn sure his ex was going to get less, or both).

Loved the guy for putting a screeching halt to the on-field joke this team was for a decade. But the guy's a first class a-hole.

[drago]

So, he's being hired as a consultant again? Big deal, he's only good as an actual HC. Otherwise at best he's average and IMO below average.

2006 9-7

2005 9-7

2004 6-10

2003 10-6

1999 8-8

The game has past him by. He hasn't been a good coach in a full decade, he even traded for burnt out Drew Bledsoe and watched the human statue get killed before Romo took over. Parcells is a fossil, i hope he stays in Miami or goes to a rival team so he can mess them up too.

[T0mShane]

Loved the guy for putting a screeching halt to the on-field joke this team was for a decade. But the guy's a first class a-hole.

Best. Summation. Ever.

But...I'd be more willing to believe that Parcells left the Jets for reasons other than the fact that Woody's a clown if Parcells didn't also bail on Kraft, Jones and JLo/Ross/Marc Anthony/Da Birdman because they, too, dared to step on his toes. Parcells is a sociopathic egotist who grew up under the wing of Wellington Mara, who was the exact opposite of a meddling, publicity-seeking owner. He will spend the rest of his days looking to work for a guy like that again. Can you imagine Parcells on Hard Knocks, having Woody Johnson sitting in Bill's office flipping through magazines while he was trying to sort out the Revis deal? Or having to beg permission, on camera, to cut Tony Richardson? Jesus, that'd get ugly.

[billo83]

2006 9-7

2005 9-7

2004 6-10

2003 10-6

1999 8-8

The game has past him by. He hasn't been a good coach in a full decade, he even traded for burnt out Drew Bledsoe and watched the human statue get killed before Romo took over. Parcells is a fossil, i hope he stays in Miami or goes to a rival team so he can mess them up too.

He's already out of Miami unfortunately, and accordinng to the OP headed to Minny (although I have yet to see anything confirming that). He should just retire and STAY retired. As you said he is a fossil, and can't be trusted to stay the course.

[billo83]

Loved the guy for putting a screeching halt to the on-field joke this team was for a decade. But the guy's a first class a-hole.

A agree with this, but temper it by hating him for not finishing the job, bringing us boobway, and the Peyton Manning blunder.

[BP]

He didn't leave the Jets because of Woody. Woody would have kissed his a$ and worked his tongue all the way up until it reached the duodenum. Woody BADLY wanted Parcells to stay here.

Parcells stepped down for one reason: because it kept Kraft from offering the Pats HC job to BB. And to further teach BB a lesson in who's who in scumbag class, he stayed on as GM so he would still be BB's boss even after stepping down.

Then a year later, BB is 6-10 in NE and he awards awful going-away contracts to unworthy (one had like a $9M bonus to Bryan Cox or something like that) and hired a total zero to take his place. The idea being that this team would head straight downhill (and NE would continue to do so) after his departure, further convincing everyone how awesome he was. Also getting out of that contract meant he wouldn't have to split a new coaching contract with his soon-to-be ex-wife. Some months later he was going to take the Tampa HC job after Dungy was axe, but his divorce took a little longer than expected and therefore he'd have to split his entire Tampa contract with her 50/50. So then suddenly and unexpectedly (from Tampa's POV), he ditched them also, and only after his divorce was finalized a year later did he accept the Cowboys HC job for the following season.

Parcells had no issues with Woody Johnson that I remember reading anywhere. Woody did nothing but try to appease and placate Parcells to stay and would have given him anything he wanted, just as surely as he accepted any unqualified recommendation (Bradway) from Parcells as to who should be his replacement. Notice he didn't recommend Tannenbaum back then. Not because he thought he was unworthy, since Bradway didn't know dick about player contracts, salary cap, and cap value. But rather, because he wanted to bring Tannenbaum with him to Tampa.

Mumbles left because he didn't want to work for Parcells anymore, and after the little hahaha f-you Parcells did by stepping down - done only because he knew a deal was in place for BB to go to Kraft in Foxboro - I can't say I blame him. Also what grown man wants to be known as Tuna Helper, no matter what kind of scumbag he is himself? Ultimately, Mumbles left because he had a better opportunity in NE, being given the job by Kraft for $2M more per season out of desire to have him, rather than being given the job by Parcells just to screw Kraft (and BB who was "betraying" him).

Parcells left to escape his then-current contract with the Jets, which he would have had to split with his ex-wife since he signed that deal while they were married. In other words, Parcells left for money (either because he wanted more for himself, because he wanted to make damn sure his ex was going to get less, or both).

Loved the guy for putting a screeching halt to the on-field joke this team was for a decade. But the guy's a first class a-hole.

I know Woody wanted Parcells to stay. but Parcells didn't like him. did you see Woody involved in almost every meeting on hard knocks? he was way more involved than Hess from the beginning. Parcells is a moody bitch, and he doesnt like that sh*t. thats why he left Dallas too. (Jerry Jones just couldnt control himself)

You have good points about Tampa and leaving for money though Sperm. I mean the guy hired an agent and had plastic surgery on his face when he joined the Jets. was that common place for a coach back then? not the surgery,..lol

[GodWearsAGrayHoodie]

Kraft was definitely more meddling during the Parcels years than he is now.

Kraft was opposed to the drafting of Brady (BB wanted to draft him in the 4th round) and only eventually relented to keep BB from getting too upset. Kraft now realizes that if he and BB disagree, the odds of Kraft being right and BB being wrong is extremely small. He doesn't meddle anymore.

[Weeb]

Well, if he goes to Minny, that will be another team to hate. Ever since he gave that speech that he was done with football with us, he has taken over two more (and looks like a third )teams.

Better as coach than talent evaluator, but still F-Him

[billo83]

Well, if he goes to Minny, that will be another team to hate. Ever since he gave that speech that he was done with football with us, he has taken over two more (and looks like a third )teams.

Better as coach than talent evaluator, but still F-Him

I already hate Minny because of Favre, so I'll doubly hate them if this happens.

[Sperm Edwards]

I know Woody wanted Parcells to stay. but Parcells didn't like him. did you see Woody involved in almost every meeting on hard knocks? he was way more involved than Hess from the beginning. Parcells is a moody bitch, and he doesnt like that sh*t. thats why he left Dallas too. (Jerry Jones just couldnt control himself)

You have good points about Tampa and leaving for money though Sperm. I mean the guy hired an agent and had plastic surgery on his face when he joined the Jets. was that common place for a coach back then? not the surgery,..lol

Hey I understand where you're coming from. The guy wasn't all bad for us (though clearly we didn't win dick for having had him here) but there was a lot of bad he brought. We lost a pick each in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds to compensate New England. We burned another first on Martin AND then gave him the richest contract ever given to an NFL RB (something like $6M/year when the salary cap was still barely $40-45M). Also, as mentioned, he passed on Peyton Manning (verbally to Archie) so he stayed in school an extra year. #1 pick in the country (instead of Manning, and then after that instead of Orlando Pace), after a series of trade-downs we ended up with Farrior, Dedric Ward, Leon Johnson, Chuck Clements, and I think Raymond Austin and Jason Ferguson. Someone can look it up for sure, but at MOST that's what we ended up with.

As long as we made sure to bring in a real GM and even a moderately-respected HC, in hindsight it's entirely possible this team's fortunes might have been better if he never came here at all.

[Sperm Edwards]

Best. Summation. Ever.

But...I'd be more willing to believe that Parcells left the Jets for reasons other than the fact that Woody's a clown if Parcells didn't also bail on Kraft, Jones and JLo/Ross/Marc Anthony/Da Birdman because they, too, dared to step on his toes. Parcells is a sociopathic egotist who grew up under the wing of Wellington Mara, who was the exact opposite of a meddling, publicity-seeking owner. He will spend the rest of his days looking to work for a guy like that again. Can you imagine Parcells on Hard Knocks, having Woody Johnson sitting in Bill's office flipping through magazines while he was trying to sort out the Revis deal? Or having to beg permission, on camera, to cut Tony Richardson? Jesus, that'd get ugly.

Now THAT would be some must-see TV.

[serphnx]

Hey I understand where you're coming from. The guy wasn't all bad for us (though clearly we didn't win dick for having had him here) but there was a lot of bad he brought. We lost a pick each in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds to compensate New England. We burned another first on Martin AND then gave him the richest contract ever given to an NFL RB (something like $6M/year when the salary cap was still barely $40-45M). Also, as mentioned, he passed on Peyton Manning (verbally to Archie) so he stayed in school an extra year. #1 pick in the country (instead of Manning, and then after that instead of Orlando Pace), after a series of trade-downs we ended up with Farrior, Dedric Ward, Leon Johnson, Chuck Clements, and I think Raymond Austin and Jason Ferguson. Someone can look it up for sure, but at MOST that's what we ended up with.

As long as we made sure to bring in a real GM and even a moderately-respected HC, in hindsight it's entirely possible this team's fortunes might have been better if he never came here at all.

We would have been far better with Peyton. There's no question about that. He probably would have gotten even better with his little brother playing for the Giants several years later.

[Sperm Edwards]

We would have been far better with Peyton. There's no question about that. He probably would have gotten even better with his little brother playing for the Giants several years later.

Well there's no guarantee he would have come out. Depends on who the Jets hired instead. Understand, Manning could have come out anyway whether Parcells said he would have taken him or traded down. Archie didn't want New Orleans trading up for the #1 pick to get his son but it's unclear if he would have deemed the Jets acceptable without Parcells here anyway. This was the place that losers went to, and where formerly good players came to become losers themselves.