greeniemeanie Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Brett Favre was a bad QB? Joe, apparently this argument is only allowed to include Pennington and Sanchez. Never mind Drew Brees and Favre. What am I expecting CTM? For one, I don't share the opinion that all of these QB's are terrible. I maintain that Pennington was serviceable, and a good game manager, Favre is far from terrible, Clemens was terrible, and Sanchez has shown flashes of brilliance in the playoffs (jury is still out on Mark's consistency). I expect that plays are not telegraphed, hence giving the offense a really small margin of error if they are to be successful. I expect that the OC puts his players in a position to succeed, and calls plays with the goal of getting the ball to his playmakers. As far as I can tell (and I do feel that I am qualified to make such an observation due to the fact that I have eyes and a heartbeat), Schottenheimer is a failure. This is not to say that I feel that Sanchez will turn into Brady or Rodgers, but I do think that Schottenheimer is hurting our QB more than helping him, which is what he has done with every QB he has coached (Favre, Brees, Pennington, and Sanchez) I expect the OC to not do that, that is what I ultimately expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 he was 2 years prior and 2 years after.... AND he WASN"T when not injured Talk about cherry picking stats. I expect much better from you. I can crush that argument too easily. The year before he played for the Jets and the year after he played for the Jets were the two best of his career, in two totally different offenses. Coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Yeah injury schminjury...walk it off bro now, we're paying you millions...amirite?!?!??! Sorry..coordinate around it broo! It's sh*t because Favre didn't play well against the Raiders and Patriots (1st game) which was well before he got injured. He had a 3 game stretch where he was very good, but that's it. The point is that Favre WAS NOT having a stellar season until he got hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I don't remember saying I thought Schotty was good, I'm simply asking, that with QB's that we all know are bad, what exactly where you expecting? None of you nitwits has given a satisfactory answer to that yet. I don't know, to not have every player who comes into this system show a substantial decline in their play followed by an improvement once they've left it? Not to mention the trend of Jets' offensive draft picks play declining over the course of their Jets' careers (with the exception of OL). It's not that they're any good, it's just that they're all worse under Schotty. There's no evidence to suggest he does anything to play to his players strengths considering, barring mostly eliminating the wildcat plays with Smith leaving, we've seen the same exact setup regardless of who is on the field. Just looking at Penny, Favre and Sanchez, there's absolutely nothing you could say that would make you think these 3 are even close to the same type of QB, and yet nothing has changed. The truth is, there's no evidence in 6 years to suggest he's any good at his job, just a list of excuses as to why it's not his fault they've sucked. Isn't that alone enough? Frankly, I don't think you could possibly have a better coaching parallel to old Penny-boy than Schotty. Although at least Penny had a few numbers that were out there that could be used by his delusional supporters. Just admit it, you can't handle him taking too much crap because you're afraid it takes too much of the blame off of Sanchez. It's ok for you to hate on both without putting in these pathetic attempts to defend the one you hate less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Joe, apparently this argument is only allowed to include Pennington and Sanchez. Never mind Drew Brees and Favre. What am I expecting CTM? For one, I don't share the opinion that all of these QB's are terrible. I maintain that Pennington was serviceable, and a good game manager, Favre is far from terrible, Clemens was terrible, and Sanchez has shown flashes of brilliance in the playoffs (jury is still out on Mark's consistency). I expect that plays are not telegraphed, hence giving the offense a really small margin of error if they are to be successful. I expect that the OC puts his players in a position to succeed, and calls plays with the goal of getting the ball to his playmakers. As far as I can tell (and I do feel that I am qualified to make such an observation due to the fact that I have eyes and a heartbeat), Schottenheimer is a failure. This is not to say that I feel that Sanchez will turn into Brady or Rodgers, but I do think that Schottenheimer is hurting our QB more than helping him, which is what he has done with every QB he has coached (Favre, Brees, Pennington, and Sanchez) I expect the OC to not do that, that is what I ultimately expect. The best comparison for Sanchez is Joe Flacco. They play in basically the same offense (Cam Cameron was SD's OC during Shotty's years as QB coach) and they both have had their share of success and both make the same types of boneheaded mistakes and have stretches where they are completely ineffective followed by stretches where they look brilliant. They also are making the same types of mistake Drew Brees frequently made when playing for Cameron and Schotty in SD, coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greeniemeanie Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 The best comparison for Sanchez is Joe Flacco. They play in basically the same offense (Cam Cameron was SD's OC during Shotty's years as QB coach) and they both have had their share of success and both make the same types of boneheaded mistakes and have stretches where they are completely ineffective followed by stretches where they look brilliant. They also are making the same types of mistake Drew Brees frequently made when playing for Cameron and Schotty in SD, coincidence? I also know that all of my friends that are Raven's fans are calling for Cam's head as well. Great point, but clearly every QB that Schotty and Cam coached were terrible. So what do you expect? *cough*Drew Brees*cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 he was 2 years prior and 2 years after.... AND he WASN"T when not injured Yet the Jets still had as many crappy offensive performances (including against some really bad teams) as they did good ones before Favre's injury. The guy put up over 27% of his entire seasons TDs in one game for crying out loud. Although I'm sure Schotty was blameless for those early season failures too, right? All of the credit and none of the blame, whatever you say Schittentolgoist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Talk about cherry picking stats. I expect much better from you. I can crush that argument too easily. The year before he played for the Jets and the year after he played for the Jets were the two best of his career, in two totally different offenses. Coincidence? It was the same offense. He worked in the same offense in 4 of the 5 years...hell, the Jets ran alot of similar stuff with him (because shematically most offenses are similar anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Talk about cherry picking stats. I expect much better from you. I can crush that argument too easily. The year before he played for the Jets and the year after he played for the Jets were the two best of his career, in two totally different offenses. Coincidence? there systems are totally different? Who knew.. And besides, again, Favre had worse years before and after his NY season. This whole notion of proving that Schotty is bad with stats is nose picking stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Yet the Jets still had as many crappy offensive performances (including against some really bad teams) as they did good ones before Favre's injury. The guy put up over 27% of his entire seasons TDs in one game for crying out loud. Although I'm sure Schotty was blameless for those early season failures too, right? All of the credit and none of the blame, whatever you say Schittentolgoist. Now you've gone too far. Look, I hate CTM as much, if not more, than any of you, but to call him that is out of bounds. Gato is the only true sh*ttentologist around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 there systems are totally different? Who knew.. And besides, again, Favre had worse years before and after his NY season. This whole notion of proving that Schotty is bad with stats is nose picking stats I WIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 It's sh*t because Favre didn't play well against the Raiders and Patriots (1st game) which was well before he got injured. He had a 3 game stretch where he was very good, but that's it. The point is that Favre WAS NOT having a stellar season until he got hurt. ahh, when defending sanchez we remove bad games to make his bad stats seem good.. When deriding schotty, we remove favre's good games to make his good stats seem bad.. there are no rules in thunderdome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Yet the Jets still had as many crappy offensive performances (including against some really bad teams) as they did good ones before Favre's injury. The guy put up over 27% of his entire seasons TDs in one game for crying out loud. Although I'm sure Schotty was blameless for those early season failures too, right? All of the credit and none of the blame, whatever you say Schittentolgoist. says the guy who spent 5 years arguing chad sucks, and is now blaming the OC for it cause it suits his argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I don't know, to not have every player who comes into this system show a substantial decline in their play followed by an improvement once they've left it? Not to mention the trend of Jets' offensive draft picks play declining over the course of their Jets' careers (with the exception of OL). It's not that they're any good, it's just that they're all worse under Schotty. There's no evidence to suggest he does anything to play to his players strengths considering, barring mostly eliminating the wildcat plays with Smith leaving, we've seen the same exact setup regardless of who is on the field. Just looking at Penny, Favre and Sanchez, there's absolutely nothing you could say that would make you think these 3 are even close to the same type of QB, and yet nothing has changed. The truth is, there's no evidence in 6 years to suggest he's any good at his job, just a list of excuses as to why it's not his fault they've sucked. Isn't that alone enough? Frankly, I don't think you could possibly have a better coaching parallel to old Penny-boy than Schotty. Although at least Penny had a few numbers that were out there that could be used by his delusional supporters. Just admit it, you can't handle him taking too much crap because you're afraid it takes too much of the blame off of Sanchez. It's ok for you to hate on both without putting in these pathetic attempts to defend the one you hate less. ^^ hot garbage i like sanchez, dipsh*t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Now you've gone too far. Look, I hate CTM as much, if not more, than any of you, but to call him that is out of bounds. Gato is the only true sh*ttentologist around here. *walks in on Klecko giving Gato the 'ol rape job* *walks out* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greeniemeanie Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 ^^ hot garbage i like sanchez, dipsh*t Sanchez is a third year player who is actually OUTPERFORMING his projections based on his tiny amount of college experience. He's akili smith, and he performing like an average QB this season. What were you expecting, seriously??? I'm confused... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 It's sh*t because Favre didn't play well against the Raiders and Patriots (1st game) which was well before he got injured. He had a 3 game stretch where he was very good, but that's it. The point is that Favre WAS NOT having a stellar season until he got hurt. Otoh he was having a pretty damn good one. The guy finished the season by doubling his INT total in 5 games...I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that having a throwing arm injury in-season probably played into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 As far as I can tell (and I do feel that I am qualified to make such an observation due to the fact that I have eyes and a heartbeat), Schottenheimer is a failure. This is not to say that I feel that Sanchez will turn into Brady or Rodgers, but I do think that Schottenheimer is hurting our QB more than helping him, which is what he has done with every QB he has coached (Favre, Brees, Pennington, and Sanchez) Unless you have access to all 22 footage and have studied carefully, no you are not even close to qualified to make such an observation. Even if you have the footage, you still don't know what the receiver/qb read options were. Nobody here is qualified to have a strong opinion on this, and that's what's hilarious about the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 ^^ hot garbage i like sanchez, dipsh*t You like him yet you called him "Akili Smith?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I'm confused... What's confusing? That I didn't expect Sanchez to be an elite qb by year 3? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Otoh he was having a pretty damn good one. The guy finished the season by doubling his INT total in 5 games...I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that having a throwing arm injury in-season probably played into that. against worse teams... but whose counting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 You like him yet you called him "Akili Smith?" his profile out of college obv...sheesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 says the guy who spent 5 years arguing chad sucks, and is now blaming the OC for it cause it suits his argument. If you really think that's my argument than I really have no idea wtf to tell you. I can't believe that you're really too stupid to understand that two people can suck at their jobs at the same time. Herm and Chad both sucked at the same time, Hackett and Chad sucked at the same time, Mangini and Chad sucked at the same time, and Schotty and Chad sucked at the same time. Not to mention a whole list of players you can list who sucked at the same time as Chad (Doug Brien, perhaps?). The difference is Schotty is the only who's influence seemed to actually cause Chad to suck even worse (hell, after all, it's only after getting Schitt on that the Jets finally cut him loose), which is a trend that has since repeated with every single QB who has played in this offense since then. I'm not defending Chad because if anything the one good thing Schotty has done in his time here is help rid us of that disaster, and if you forced me to take one over the other, I'd take Schotty every single time, but that doesn't mean he's not still awful at what he does. Is it really so much to ask to have a coach who's resume doesn't consist of regression of nearly ever player who's played for him? Considering that I was already sick of Schotty back when Chad was still here, and certainly never let it interfere with my Chad-hate, it should be pretty clear that your point there is a load of crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I also know that all of my friends that are Raven's fans are calling for Cam's head as well. Great point, but clearly every QB that Schotty and Cam coached were terrible. So what do you expect? *cough*Drew Brees*cough* but cam cameron was a genius when he had Brees, how could he be doing poorly now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 i'm bored with this already, mostly cause i don't like schotty much either, carry on w/the angry mob thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 there systems are totally different? Who knew.. And besides, again, Favre had worse years before and after his NY season. This whole notion of proving that Schotty is bad with stats is nose picking stats Ok, then let's make it simple. I'm going to ask you to do something even the Penningtologists were able to do, as misguided as they may have been. Can you provide ANY argument whatsoever that actually supports the concept that Schotty is any good at his job? Not why it's not his fault when they've sucked, but why he is any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greeniemeanie Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 CTM, with all due respect, me doth think ye speaketh out of both sides of ye mouth. I'm done playing this game. You're right. Schottenheimer is a good OC, you like Sanchez, Favre sucked, and I'm not qualified to form an opinion upon a series of events that I witness firsthand almost every Sunday. You are right on all accounts, no matter if you contradict yourself or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Ok, then let's make it simple. I'm going to ask you to do something even the Penningtologists were able to do, as misguided as they may have been. Can you provide ANY argument whatsoever that actually supports the concept that Schotty is any good at his job? Not why it's not his fault when they've sucked, but why he is any good. Again,when did I say he was good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Again,when did I say he was good? You came in here throwing a fit that people dare think he sucks. So either you think he's good (or at the very least doesn't suck), or you're an idiot. If it's the former, then at least give some sort of support to a reason why he's good (or doesn't suck) that's not a Penningtologist-esque excuse or an arbitrary dismissal of an opposing view. If it's the latter, shut the **** up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 *walks in on Klecko giving Gato the 'ol rape job* *walks out* That's a rape? TSS what'd he use, a thimble or sumpin? TSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 CTM, with all due respect, me doth think ye speaketh out of both sides of ye mouth. I'm done playing this game. You're right. Schottenheimer is a good OC, you like Sanchez, Favre sucked, and I'm not qualified to form an opinion upon a series of events that I witness firsthand almost every Sunday. You are right on all accounts, no matter if you contradict yourself or not. I really don't understand what is so confusing Pennington = suck Clemens = suck Sanchez = sucks now --- but is very young and inexperienced has sown potential to be better Favre = one of the more erratic players ever, was very good for 11 games, then terrible for the 5 he was injured. Also, got to camp way late and refused to learn play book My point, isn't that Schotty is good, it's that he hasn't had favorable talent at QB that you could say, hey this guy should be running a great offense. The talent was mediocre at best, as were the results. Meaning Schotty probably did a very average job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 You came in here throwing a fit that people dare think he sucks. So either you think he's good (or at the very least doesn't suck), or you're an idiot. If it's the former, then at least give some sort of support to a reason why he's good (or doesn't suck) that's not a Penningtologist-esque excuse or an arbitrary dismissal of an opposing view. If it's the latter, shut the **** up. I'm not throwing a fit, you guys are raving lunatics who really have no idea what your talking about and I'm enjoying getting your hackles up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 ahh, when defending sanchez we remove bad games to make his bad stats seem good.. When deriding schotty, we remove favre's good games to make his good stats seem bad.. there are no rules in thunderdome No, dipsh*t, my posts were in reference to the notion that it was only as a result of the arm injury that Favre had the season he had. The bad games allegedly caused by injury are comperable to early games where injury was not a factor and, therefore, the "injury is the cause" argument is thoroughly undermined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I'm not throwing a fit, you guys are raving lunatics who really have no idea what your talking about and I'm enjoying getting your hackles up I think Schotty sucks at his job and enjoy the opportunity to take some shots at his useless a$$. It's no different than the very thing you enjoyed doing so much in the Pennington days, other than the side you're standing on. I'm sorry if you're too slow to understand the basic concepts of the discussion beyond the constant excuses you keep repeating, but that certainly doesn't mean they rest of us are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 That's a rape? TSS what'd he use, a thimble or sumpin? TSS So you are ok with a thimble up your a$$. Sorry i assumed you were a Tight End. Maybe not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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