Tebow working out with throwing guru Tom House.

[FloridaJetsFan]

Who is EVERYONE on the planet? Do you really think I'm the only person that believes that Mark Sanchez hurt his team last year?

No, you're not the only one who believes that - in fact, I believe he had a big hand in the 8-8 record last year. He wasn't the only thing broke, though. You have made your disdain for Sanchez quite clear in just about every post you make concerning the matter, and my suggestion is that you are the only person on the planet that thinks Tebow is a better quarterback than Sanchez. I hope Sanchez gets better this year, but even if he didn't, Tebow would have to get waayy better to be a better quarterback than he is.

[Gastineau Lives]

No, you're not the only one who believes that - in fact, I believe he had a big hand in the 8-8 record last year. He wasn't the only thing broke, though. You have made your disdain for Sanchez quite clear in just about every post you make concerning the matter, and my suggestion is that you are the only person on the planet that thinks Tebow is a better quarterback than Sanchez. I hope Sanchez gets better this year, but even if he didn't, Tebow would have to get waayy better to be a better quarterback than he is.

First of all, I never said that.

And second: http://top100.nfl.com/tracker

[FloridaJetsFan]

In the words of the great Ronald Reagan, "There you go again."

[Maxman]

In the words of the great Ronald Reagan, "There you go again."

Please avoid politics and use Britney Spears, oops I did it again instead. LOL!!!!!!!!

[FloridaJetsFan]

Please avoid politics and use Britney Spears, oops I did it again instead. LOL!!!!!!!!

Love me some Britney Spears!! For future reference, is it considered "political speak" if the dude is dead? If so, does that mean Ben Franklin quotes are offsides, cause that dude had some doozies!!!

[Villain The Foe]

Fair enough. Although maybe I'm misinterpreting Yards per Attempt, because the guy with the amazing mechanics and the guy with the horrible mechanics finished with the same exact number.

I just don't think that the two are very far apart in terms of being an NFL QB and I really don't know what people see in Sanchez that makes them think he's going to turn his career around. I've never seen evidence that he's going to be more than he already is. Only Tim Tebow's faith in Jesus seems to be stronger than the Sanchez' supporters faith that he's going to magically become Eli Manning. I can sit here and have faith that Tim Tebow is going to turn into Michael Vick and it would be the same.

Faith - Belief in the face of an utter lack of evidence

Potential - You haven't done anything yet

This is where I believe we're getting mixed up. No one is using the word "amazing" and Mark Sanchez in the same sentence. We're.... better yet, I am simply saying that Tebow isnt a quarterback.

Comparing yards per attempt imo dont do much until you add in the amount of passes thrown by each QB, because if you leave that out then Jeremy Kerley is possibly the most "amazing" QB in the league with his 47 yards per attempt. Tebow threw a fraction of what Sanchez has thrown. Tebow isnt even a veteran. He's never started a full season. Sanchez is now a veteran with three complete "starting" years under his belt. His mediocre numbers has depth to it, Tebow's numbers can go up or go down considerably based on 1 good or bad game.

None of this comes up when looking at "Yards per attempt". Sanchez is a mediocre QB with promise at this very moment. Tim Tebow is a below average back up QB with mechanical issues, very little experience but shows extreme promise as a situational QB/football player given what he is.

I dont think there's anything wrong with that. And just like I eventually warmed up to the Sparano pick up, I believe that if we use Tebow correctly he will be the new Kordell Stewart of the NFL. What was Kordell Stewart? A tremendous athlete, a Jack of all trades if you will. Steward played Punter, QB, WR, RB and I believe punt returner. This is Tim Tebow.

I think the Jets should use Tebow as a QB, RB, TE and WR. Strictly as a backup QB???? its a mistake imo.

[FloridaJetsFan]

This is where I believe we're getting mixed up. No one is using the word "amazing" and Mark Sanchez in the same sentence. We're.... better yet, I am simply saying that Tebow isnt a quarterback.

Comparing yards per attempt imo dont do much until you add in the amount of passes thrown by each QB, because if you leave that out then Jeremy Kerley is possibly the most "amazing" QB in the league with his 47 yards per attempt. Tebow threw a fraction of what Sanchez has thrown. Tebow isnt even a veteran. He's never started a full season. Sanchez is now a veteran with three complete "starting" years under his belt. His mediocre numbers has depth to it, Tebow's numbers can go up or go down considerably based on 1 good or bad game.

None of this comes up when looking at "Yards per attempt". Sanchez is a mediocre QB with promise at this very moment. Tim Tebow is a below average back up QB with mechanical issues, very little experience but shows extreme promise as a situational QB/football player given what he is.

I dont think there's anything wrong with that. And just like I eventually warmed up to the Sparano pick up, I believe that if we use Tebow correctly he will be the new Kordell Stewart of the NFL. What was Kordell Stewart? A tremendous athlete, a Jack of all trades if you will. Steward played Punter, QB, WR, RB and I believe punt returner. This is Tim Tebow.

I think the Jets should use Tebow as a QB, RB, TE and WR. Strictly as a backup QB???? its a mistake imo.

Holy Crap!!! You may be the smartest person I don't know!!! Well said! Excellently put! And, I think I may want to kiss you. I hope you're a girl ... Courtney?

[vinnys025]

Lets end this Tebow/Sanchez discussion already. Sanchez is a much better thrower, yet Tebow would win us more games. Which would you rather have?

[slats]

Lets end this Tebow/Sanchez discussion already. Sanchez is a much better thrower, yet Tebow would win us more games. Which would you rather have?

In two of Tebow's final four games as a Bronco, he was getting absolutely blown out by two of his new division rivals, the Bills and the Pats. Against the 5-9 Bills, who I don't think the Sanchez has ever lost to(?), he threw 2 pick-6's 18 seconds apart to seal the loss. He was sacked five times by the Pats' #31 defense.

Tebow the myth might be an upgrade, but I have serious doubts about the flesh & blood version.

[Damaged89]

In two of Tebow's final four games as a Bronco, he was getting absolutely blown out by two of his new division rivals, the Bills and the Pats. Against the 5-9 Bills, who I don't think the Sanchez has ever lost to(?), he threw 2 pick-6's 18 seconds apart to seal the loss. He was sacked five times by the Pats' #31 defense.

Tebow the myth might be an upgrade, but I have serious doubts about the flesh & blood version.

Sanchez lost that glorious 5 interception game his rookie year. The one where the Jets ran for like 320 yards and still lost.

[Lurking Troll]

In two of Tebow's final four games as a Bronco, he was getting absolutely blown out by two of his new division rivals, the Bills and the Pats. Against the 5-9 Bills, who I don't think the Sanchez has ever lost to(?), he threw 2 pick-6's 18 seconds apart to seal the loss. He was sacked five times by the Pats' #31 defense.

Tebow the myth might be an upgrade, but I have serious doubts about the flesh & blood version.

Meh...1 pick six, the next one was a fumble while he was trying to find some space behind the worst pass blocking line in football.

Still, not a game to brag about.

[Kleckineau]

In two of Tebow's final four games as a Bronco, he was getting absolutely blown out by two of his new division rivals, the Bills and the Pats. Against the 5-9 Bills, who I don't think the Sanchez has ever lost to(?), he threw 2 pick-6's 18 seconds apart to seal the loss. He was sacked five times by the Pats' #31 defense.

Tebow the myth might be an upgrade, but I have serious doubts about the flesh & blood version.

Pretty hard to mount an argument against the objective data you cite.

At this point I just hope the NYJ only motivation for signing Tebow (who I do like) was to have an upgraded version of Brad Smith and as NY footballs stepchild, steal some back page headlines from the Giants. (not too mention some help with PSL sales).

I am not very "bullish on mexican quarterbacks" but do realize anyone who thinks Tebow is an upgrade from Sanchez and should start is just being silly.

[slats]

Sanchez lost that glorious 5 interception game his rookie year. The one where the Jets ran for like 320 yards and still lost.

That's why I put the question mark in there. I wasn't sure and didn't feel like looking it up. So he lost his 6th start ever to them and hasn't lost since. Got it.

[Jet-T's]

Knuckleball, Curveball, Slider, Sinker whatever floats your bloat. I'm sure his repertoire is vast

and fundamentally sound lol.

A throwing coach? Because Tim is the ONLY QB in the NFL to ever work out with a throwing guru to

'improve' his passing ability. (House has already worked with other prominent NFL QB's this offseason

alone, including Brady, Alex Smith, and C.Palmer. The Saints no-arm QB Brees also worked with House

back in 2003.

That TT Chump RB/QB only has 2,835 Passing Yds with 20 TD's to 9 Ints with a 15.3 yds/comp average.

Only a 2.2 to 1 TD to Int Ratio (better than HoF Peyton's ratio).

Only a 77.7 NFL Passer Efficiency Rating.

Only a 9-7 W/L record, including a Playoff win.

Doing all that for a team that was 4-14 and had dumped their Top 2 Veteran 2010 WR's before starting Tebow

in game 6 of 2011.

That's 3 starts (14-16 in 2010) with 11 more starts (6-16 in 2011) + 2 Playoff starts, with a lockout offseason

sandwiched between.

But Hell, don't let the actual FACTS get in the way of a good DISS on another Jet's player.

You don't like Tebow, that's just fine.

You're in LOVE with Mark, that's just fine.

But do try and not be total numbnutt liars in the process.....

What a weak no-armed bum,,,, no NFL QB skills what-so-eva!

(but feel free to actually compare NFL career stats for their 16 starts with any other NFL QB) crickets

All everything Mark had 12 TD's to 20 Ints in his first 16 NFL starts, and he was on a much better team.

IF TT is a RB, then MS is a TURNOVER MACHINE, just as HIS COACHES have pointed out.

Tebow already has 33 TD's to just 15 Turnovers with a 9-7 W/L record for an otherwise 4-14 team.

He has only 9 Ints on 400 pass attempts, that's 1 Int per 44.4 throws.

He also only had 6 LPF's on 580 total plays, that's only 1 lost poss. fumble per 96.5 plays.

So the football genius's here know that's proof positive that Tim is not already a Playoff winning NFL QB.

PS

I just wonder how Tim will do if he ever gets to start for a team/coach/system that's any good.....

So far he's only 9-7 for an other wise 4-14 team with no quality Vet WR's to throw to.

[Bleedin Green]

Sanchez sucked last year, and yet he still completed over 10% more of his passes than Tebow. I mean, come on. Make all of the excuses you want, there's nothing about that which can be explained to be the mark of an even slightly competent passer.

For the love of God, Blaine freakin' Gabbert beat Tebow by over 4%.

[Damaged89]

Sanchez sucked last year, and yet he still completed over 10% more of his passes than Tebow. I mean, come on. Make all of the excuses you want, there's nothing about that which can be explained to be the mark of an even slightly competent passer.

For the love of God, Blaine freakin' Gabbert beat Tebow by over 4%.

Yes, but does Blaine Gabbert have a weirdly devoted cadre of followers?

Did You Know That Tebow Had A Better TD-Interception Ratio Than Peyton Manning?!?!

[FloridaJetsFan]

Yes, but does Blaine Gabbert have a weirdly devoted cadre of followers?

Did You Know That Tebow Had A Better TD-Interception Ratio Than Peyton Manning?!?!

Ya'll best get off of Baby Jesus! He's a Jet and we need to support him and wish him well. As his success goes, so does the NY Jets. Let's squabble about important things like who doesn't like T0mShane.

[JiFtheOracle]

Ya'll best get off of Baby Jesus! He's a Jet and we need to support him and wish him well. As his success goes, so does the NY Jets. Let's squabble about important things like who doesn't like T0mShane.

Aye!!!

[Damaged89]

Ya'll best get off of Baby Jesus! He's a Jet and we need to support him and wish him well. As his success goes, so does the NY Jets. Let's squabble about important things like who doesn't like T0mShane.

Am I wrong in thinking that he is universally loathed and that there is simply no need to discuss the matter further?

[Villain The Foe]

Holy Crap!!! You may be the smartest person I don't know!!! Well said! Excellently put! And, I think I may want to kiss you. I hope you're a girl ... Courtney?

Thanks for the comment but im sure you can find some pretty stupid comments of mine on here, so I guess it kinda evens out lol.

[Villain The Foe]

Lets end this Tebow/Sanchez discussion already. Sanchez is a much better thrower, yet Tebow would win us more games. Which would you rather have?

Where do you get that from? Tebow never played a full season in the NFL. Sanchez won 11 games on his own. Took this team to the playoffs two out of the three times that he played for us. Tebow had a very exciting winning streak, but thats not being seasoned in no sense of the word. Until Tebow plays a full year and does damage in the playoffs people need to cool down with the "Tebow would win us more games" comment. If my numbers are right Sanchez was the 5th fast QB to 30+ wins in NFL history. Like, how are you guys missing this?

[Gastineau Lives]

Where do you get that from? Tebow never played a full season in the NFL. Sanchez won 11 games on his own. Took this team to the playoffs two out of the three times that he played for us. Tebow had a very exciting winning streak, but thats not being seasoned in no sense of the word. Until Tebow plays a full year and does damage in the playoffs people need to cool down with the "Tebow would win us more games" comment. If my numbers are right Sanchez was the 5th fast QB to 30+ wins in NFL history. Like, how are you guys missing this?

Leaving Tebow out of this for a second:

Do you really think that Sanchez TOOK the Jets ANYWHERE? Is that really your perception? That Sanchez somehow put the Jets on his back and took them to the playoffs? That SANCHEZ won 30 games?

Forget 11. What one game did Sanchez win on his own? Show me that game.

[Gastineau Lives]

Sanchez sucked last year, and yet he still completed over 10% more of his passes than Tebow. I mean, come on. Make all of the excuses you want, there's nothing about that which can be explained to be the mark of an even slightly competent passer.

For the love of God, Blaine freakin' Gabbert beat Tebow by over 4%.

Same yards per attempt. **** percentage already. I can throw underhand for two ****ing yards and complete 80% of MY passes. Does that make me awesome?

Alex Smith had a higher completion percentage than Eli Manning.

Matt Moore was .5 percent worse than Manning.

Tavaris Jackson was .8 percent worse than Manning.

Josh Freeman was 2.8 percent worse than Tom Brady.

There are more, but I'll stop here.

And Sanchez beat Tebow by 8 percent. not 10 plus. Which also means that Blaine Gabbert was 4% worse than Sanchez, which is disgraceful in itself considering Gabbert is a rookie on a HORRENDOUS team with no offensive weapons outside of their running back and Sanchez was in his third year PLUS - having two years of championship run playoff experience. 4 freaking % (your standard of excellence, not mine)

You're one of my favorite fellow posters, you consistently make good, concise arguments. But I think you're way off base here. It's like your brain got temporarily hijacked by some other poster (s) that shall remain nameless.

[Bleedin Green]

Same yards per attempt. **** percentage already. I can throw underhand for two ****ing yards and complete 80% of MY passes. Does that make me awesome?

Alex Smith had a higher completion percentage than Eli Manning.

Matt Moore was .5 percent worse than Manning.

Tavaris Jackson was .8 percent worse than Manning.

Josh Freeman was 2.8 percent worse than Tom Brady.

There are more, but I'll stop here.

And Sanchez beat Tebow by 8 percent. not 10 plus. Which also means that Blaine Gabbert was 4% worse than Sanchez, which is disgraceful in itself considering Gabbert is a rookie on a HORRENDOUS team with no offensive weapons outside of their running back and Sanchez was in his third year PLUS - having two years of championship run playoff experience. 4 freaking % (your standard of excellence, not mine)

You're one of my favorite fellow posters, you consistently make good, concise arguments. But I think you're way off base here. It's like your brain got temporarily hijacked by some other poster (s) that shall remain nameless.

Well I appreciate that, and don't get me wrong, completion percentage is far from the be all, end all of QBing, and I'm certainly not trying to say that it is. I mean after all, if I thought it was, then I probably would have actually liked Chad Pennington.

The only reason I mentioned it, was really in response to Jet-T's most recent painfully long post (and coming from me, that's saying something) that goes on and on letting us know about the oh so impressive stats from Tebow's pee-wee league days. Meanwhile, it's just staggering to see how much worse he was than literally every other QB in the league last year in that particular area (which is really the main reason I find it at all noteworthy). I don't disagree with you that Sanchez's numbers are quite sad themselves, which only makes it that much worse. I agree that it was hardly a great case being made there, but I'll simply admit I wasn't trying all that hard to make one, but really just kind of pointing out the irony of how much Jet-T's likes to quote any stat he can dig up of Tebow's since the day he was born, yet manages to completely ignore one that jumps off of the page like that.

If you ask me, both of these guys have a long way to go in order to be considered legit franchise QBs (I just happen to like Sanchez's odds a little better, but that's not really saying much).

[Jet-T's]

“Every athlete, pitcher or quarterback, is kind of unique unto themselves,” House said to the San Francisco Chronicle in May. “There’s one set of rules, but there’s millions of interpretations. And what I try to do is find (the movements) that work the best for him.

House is known as an innovative coach. He has had pitchers throw footballs on their off days and travels abroad as a consultant, having devoted his career to baseball pitching research. He has written five books, including “The Art and Science of Pitching” as well as “Fit to Pitch,” and employs three-dimensional analysis. Saints quarterback Drew Brees was the first NFL quarterback to seek House’s input, and high-profile slingers like Tom Brady and Carson Palmer followed suit.

Tebow remains determined to establish himself as a QB in the NFL despite the up-and-down year he had with the (crappy receiver lite) Denver Broncos last season. The call to House is just another step in the process. The results and improvements will be revealed in camp as early as next weekend.

Last time I checked, a QB completion % never won a single game in the NFL.

And that comp% is just another stat, while you try to ignore the other more important to winning stats:

That TT Chump RB/QB only has 2,835 Passing Yds with 20 TD's to 9 Ints with a 15.3 yds/comp average.

Only a 2.2 to 1 TD to Int Ratio (better than HoF Peyton's ratio).

Only a 77.7 NFL Passer Efficiency Rating.

Only a 9-7 W/L record, including a Playoff win.

Doing all that for a team that was 4-14 and had dumped their Top 2 Veteran 2010 WR's before starting Tebow in game 6 of 2011.

* Can you tell us what HoF John Elway's comp% was in his rookie season? (note: 7 TD's to 14 Ints)

* Can you tell us how many Int's that HoF Peyton Maning threw in his first 16 NFL Starts?

And just in case someone missed the most irrelevant stat, can you tell us again what Tebow's comp% was?

Did Mark play with his Top 2 WR's from 2010 traded away before he started in 2011?

Did Mark play with his best receiving RB injured out for the season?

Of course those facts are never mentioned along with Tim's comp%.

[Bleedin Green]

Translation:

Excuses. Excuses excuses excuses. More excuses. Even more excuses. Lots more excuses. Excuses and excuses.

1000 more words of excuses.

Zero content of value.

[Jetsouth]

Mechanics are over rated..

[slats]

Can you tell us what HoF John Elway's comp% was in his rookie season? (note: 7 TD's to 14 Ints)

John Elway couldn't wait to unload Tebow for a fourth round pick, and I really don't think it had anything to do with any jealousy over the comparisons of their rookie seasons.

[Gastineau Lives]

John Elway couldn't wait to unload Tebow for a fourth round pick, and I really don't think it had anything to do with any jealousy over the comparisons of their rookie seasons.

If he doesn't get Peyton Manning, is Tebow the starting QB of the Broncos or no?

[slats]

If he doesn't get Peyton Manning, is Tebow the starting QB of the Broncos or no?

They spent $100M on a 36 year old QB who missed all of last season with nerve damage in his neck and drafted another QB in the second round. I think it's pretty clear they wanted to go in another direction.

[Gastineau Lives]

They spent $100M on a 36 year old QB who missed all of last season with nerve damage in his neck and drafted another QB in the second round. I think it's pretty clear they wanted to go in another direction.

His name is Peyton Manning not Jake Delhomme and if they didn't think he was worth 100 mil dollars, they wouldn't have given him 100 mil. Someone would have, they weren't bidding against themselves. I just don't see how signing Peyton Manning is an indictment of Tim Tebow's talent. The reason they traded Tebow was to avoid the circus atmosphere that the Jets have now signed on for, way more than Tebow's talent or lack thereof.

[slats]

I just don't see how signing Peyton Manning is an indictment of Tim Tebow's talent. The reason they traded Tebow was to avoid the circus atmosphere that the Jets have now signed on for, way more than Tebow's talent or lack thereof.

o_0

So two years after taking Tebow in the first round, they dump him for a fourth rounder, but that has nothing to do with Tebow's lack thereof as an NFL QB?

Okay.

[Gastineau Lives]

o_0

So two years after taking Tebow in the first round, they dump him for a fourth rounder, but that has nothing to do with Tebow's lack thereof as an NFL QB?

Okay.

With Manning in town, he had to go. What do you think the market for him was?

Santonio Holmes was gotten for a fifth rounder. Is it because he was a horrible wide receiver?

So, they sign a Hall of Fame Quarterback and that has NOTHING to do with the trade of Tebow?

Okay.

[slats]

With Manning in town, he had to go. What do you think the market for him was?

Santonio Holmes was gotten for a fifth rounder. Is it because he was a horrible wide receiver?

So, they sign a Hall of Fame Quarterback and that has NOTHING to do with the trade of Tebow?

Okay.

The market for Tebow had nothing to do with Manning. Jacksonville's owner wanted him for ticket sales. No other team In the league was interested in bringing him in as a starter, and even Jacksonville's staff didn't want him. Denver spent a first rounder on him, and preferred trading him for a fourth round pick to keeping him - despite a continued need at QB that they filled with a second rounder. But this had nothing to do with what they thought about him as a QB?

No team is giving up on a QB they spent a first round pick on just two years ago if they believe he has the ability to be a quality starter for them. No team drops a promising 24 year old QB for any 36 year old who was PUP the previous year. If they believe they're a Peyton Manning away from a championship, maybe they sign him, but they don't dump the younger QB in the process. Not if they think he's any good. Good QBs are too hard to find in this league.

Bottom line is that John Elway couldn't wait to get rid of Tebow. If Manning wasn't available, I suspect they would've overturned some other stones to fill the position. So in answer to your original question: no, I don't think Tebow would be the starter there. Just as no other team in the NFL wanted him as their starter.

[Gastineau Lives]

The market for Tebow had nothing to do with Manning. Jacksonville's owner wanted him for ticket sales. No other team In the league was interested in bringing him in as a starter, and even Jacksonville's staff didn't want him. Denver spent a first rounder on him, and preferred trading him for a fourth round pick to keeping him - despite a continued need at QB that they filled with a second rounder. But this had nothing to do with what they thought about him as a QB?

No team is giving up on a QB they spent a first round pick on just two years ago if they believe he has the ability to be a quality starter for them. No team drops a promising 24 year old QB for any 36 year old who was PUP the previous year. If they believe they're a Peyton Manning away from a championship, maybe they sign him, but they don't dump the younger QB in the process. Not if they think he's any good. Good QBs are too hard to find in this league.

Bottom line is that John Elway couldn't wait to get rid of Tebow. If Manning wasn't available, I suspect they would've overturned some other stones to fill the position. So in answer to your original question: no, I don't think Tebow would be the starter there. Just as no other team in the NFL wanted him as th

I disagree.

So let me get this straight. They are counting on Brock Osweiler as their insurance policy for Manning because they definitely think they are going to need it. They picked Osweiler over Tebow, purely as a football move, is what you are saying? Nothing to do with three more years on Tebow's contract? Nothing to do with three more years of Tebowmania sitting on the sidelines while Peyton Manning is their QB? You're saying the distraction factor for their shiny new Hall of Famer had nothing to do with it?

If the PUP was such an issue, they would never have spent 100mil on him in the first place (although they have protected themselves with the caveat that he pass a physical each year).

And I do think they believe they are a Peyton Manning away from a championship. And they may be right.

What stones would they have overturned? The Matt Flynnstone? I don't think there were that many stones to turn that wouldn't have resulted in a full-scale revolt. Can you imagine them bringing in a Matt Flynn? No, neither can I.

There is no way that they turn away from a guy that, in his rookie season (essentially), took them from a 1-3 team to a playoff team winning the first round with stellar qb play against one of the best defenses in football. Yeah, he sh*t the bed against New England, but again, he is essentially a rookie. Not to mention the uproar if they had gone in another direction other than one of the best three qbs of all time.

If they were so low on him, Kyle Orton would still be the starter.