JohnnyHector Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 And DONT claim Im comparing Brady and Rodgers to Sanchez ....Pressure is Pressure no matter how you slice it no QB does good in that situation The numbers disagree: http://www.profootba...1-quarterbacks/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet27 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Many of the posters here are quick to blame Tannenbaum but is he really the problem? He manages the cap and seems to have done that well, makes the call for the picks but is he the talent evaluater or does he merely makes the picks and deals based upon the judgment of the football staff? We know Rex is all defense with an occasional offensive thought and the picks seem to have that trend as well. Quite frankly, I dont see him as one to override the football staff evaluations, wants and desires. Tanny gets some of the blame, but I don't see him throwing INT's going the otherway and the last being this past saturday night. I have said it many times before, we need football "minded" people running this organization not bean counters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 The numbers disagree: http://www.profootba...1-quarterbacks/ **** it im going deep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Mark screwed Santonio last year, who was often wide open. Why do we assume he'd find Cruz? Here's a question when's the last time Mark threw a pass downfield? Was it 2010? The dude is captain checkdown after 5 or 6 seconds of not making a decision. I see your point, simply it discounts Cruz's talent. Sanchez does not throw downfield, and the jets by design barely bother. As above, WRs with the Jets are practically pointless. If you arent going to throw anything other than dumpoffs and quick hits in the flats, having a primo WR like Holmes is putting a Roll Royce hood ornament on a '72 Dodge Dart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 The numbers disagree: http://www.profootba...1-quarterbacks/ Do people ignore this, or not understand it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Do people ignore this, or not understand it? Those metrics tell you that Sanchez is freaking terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Do people ignore this, or not understand it? I think, when reading it through green-colored glasses, it somehow translates to "Wayne Hunter sucks", despite the fact that most of the top QB's in the league were pressured as many, if not more times than Sanchez was last year with far better results. Either that, or they're just really dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 What is the job of a General Manager? Cover other teams Super bowl trophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 the problem is overreacting ninnies who are readly to declare the season lost before it's even started. I can't ever remember it being this bad. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Tannenbaum is a freakin capologist. He is NOT an NFL GM and he never will be. The guy who built the core of this football team was Eric Mangini . He may not have been a good coach but he certainly understood how to build a team and bring in smart players who had good attitudes, were multi talented, and could contribute in many areas. Look at the crop of players this current FO has brought in. Have you heard some of these guys talk in interviews ? They sound like a bunch of Idiots. Ths team has lost its identity in 3 short years and Tanny should not take all that blame, the scouts, the coachs, and the owner, all play a part. None of us really know what goes on behind closed doors but you have to be an idiot to think Woody Johnson did not have a say in the Tebow Trade. You add up Tebow and Wayne Hunter and Vlad Ducasse and you easily have the money to sign Eric Winston and solidify the offensive line.. Rex claims to be Ground and Pound. All we have seen is them get Pounded. Most teams that want to pass the football go out and get WR's and solidify their O-Lines focus on pass protection and scoring points. The Jets on the other hand claim to be a running team yet have garbage in the backfield and an OL that is a shell of its former self after losing two key contributors. D-Brick no matter how you slice it is over rated and making a huge salary but in is defense he basicly plays next to a JAG. Either way double digit sacks is inexcusable and we had it from both the Right and Left Tackles last year yet we expect a QB whos trying to break out to be able to deal with that ? With all these needs and holes The Jets decide to Draft a Defensive Lineman who very well may be a damn good player but most people felt in a 3-4 system the Jets were just fine depth wise on the DL. So why did we use our first pick on defense when we always seem to play well on defense and a lot of the blame as to why they get winded in the 4th quarter of games was all the 3 and outs by the offense ? Why not Draft a Decastro and Sign Winston like I explained in the first paragraph and solidify what you claim to be your freakin teams Identity ?? Some peole here may not agree with the Ground and Pound philosophy, but weather you do or you dont, its what our coach wants to do so why on earth have we ignored the line and the RB's on this football team ? We lost LT last year, he was meh and at the end of his career but do any of you think we have a back capable of replacing him as a receiver out of the back field ? Can any of our RB's like Joe ****ing McKnight pick up blitzing LB's and Safties ? Powell certainly has shown he cant as well as McKnight so WTF ? Greene has potential to be a decent back but hes always dealing with nagging injuries. How did the Jets deal with the WR problem ? They signed a player whos always hurt and drafted a player in Hill who could very well be a crap shoot. That being said, Im ok with Hill, I think he can be the real deal but what happens after that ? Holmes needs someone who can open things up on the other side of the field, if that does not happen he will be shut down just like last year. Are all these issues the sign of a good GM ? Is Rex Ryan and offensive Idiot ? Is the Owner getting too involved and thats the reason he didnt go after a strong minded GM like Casserly ? These are the questions we must ask this team but we will never get the real answer. I think this team is heading for failure and by failure I mean they wont make the playoffs and it will get worse every comming year. This team has been turned into a circus, the Same type of circus Bill Parcells rescued us from in the mid 90's . Get ready the worst is yet to come. Translation: Jets are clowns on offensive talent who only knew what they were doing two times 1) When they traded up to draft Mark Sanchez and give him a gargantuan rookie deal. 2) When they extended Mark Sanchez after a crappy season. So Mark Sanchez is the only thing they got right and it is the job of every team to prop up a scrub QB so he looks less scrubbish and the Jets have failed in this task. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 It's also worth noting that, over the course of his career, Sanchez has been one of the least pressured QB's in the league: http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/06/30/three-years-of-passing-under-pressure/ Since we know that he doesn't get rid of the ball quickly - unlike the other guys ranked near him (P. Manning, Hasselbeck) - I think that the claims of his offensive line being a sieve are slightly overstated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Mark screwed Santonio last year, who was often wide open. Why do we assume he'd find Cruz? Here's a question when's the last time Mark threw a pass downfield? Was it 2010? The dude is captain checkdown after 5 or 6 seconds of not making a decision. I agree. And Wayne Hunter didnt throw that horrible pick 6 when while staring down the receiver the whole time. Sanchez gets a big part of the blame. Hunter is still horrible and made 4 or 5 mistakes that I counted the other night. But Sanchez didnt do anything either. As far as Tannenbaum goes. Since Parcells came here, it seems that its the coaches who pick the players with the advice of the GM and scouting department. As unfair as it may seem, atleast PART of the credit for Rex's first two years as head coach has to go to Mangini. What we are seeing now in year 4 is what Rex has assembled. By year 4 you have the chance to turn over the whole roster if you wanted to. Even though I love the Coples pick - I dont know if it was the right pick for this team. The same could be said for several picks on the defensive side of the ball. Kyle Wilson is a backup, so we could have used another offensive pick there. Same could be said for some of our free agency and trade mistakes as has been stated here already. Is it true what ex players say about Rex? Does he practice defense too much? Is this why we can't develop players on the offensive side of the ball? These are all questions the Jets need to answer. I think Rex is a good coach - but I think some tweeks have to be made to the way Jets do things in the offseason all around. Rex seems to only think you play defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I agree. And Wayne Hunter didnt throw that horrible pick 6 when while staring down the receiver the whole time. Sanchez gets a big part of the blame. Hunter is still horrible and made 4 or 5 mistakes that I counted the other night. But Sanchez didnt do anything either. As far as Tannenbaum goes. Since Parcells came here, it seems that its the coaches who pick the players with the advice of the GM and scouting department. As unfair as it may seem, atleast PART of the credit for Rex's first two years as head coach has to go to Mangini. What we are seeing now in year 4 is what Rex has assembled. By year 4 you have the chance to turn over the whole roster if you wanted to. Even though I love the Coples pick - I dont know if it was the right pick for this team. The same could be said for several picks on the defensive side of the ball. Kyle Wilson is a backup, so we could have used another offensive pick there. Same could be said for some of our free agency and trade mistakes as has been stated here already. Is it true what ex players say about Rex? Does he practice defense too much? Is this why we can't develop players on that side of the ball? These are all questions the Jets need to answer. I think Rex is a good coach - but I think some tweeks have to be made to the way Jets do things in the offseason all around. Rex seems to only think you play defense. It doesn't matter. We have no QB. Might as well keep taking defensive players to keep the game close enough to win with our lousy situation throwing the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Translation: Jets are clowns on offensive talent who only knew what they were doing two times 1) When they traded up to draft Mark Sanchez and give him a gargantuan rookie deal. 2) When they extended Mark Sanchez after a crappy season. So Mark Sanchez is the only thing they got right and it is the job of every team to prop up a scrub QB so he looks less scrubbish and the Jets have failed in this task. lol If they invested high draft picks and big money in skill position players for Sanchez like the Saints have consistently done for Brees, the Packers for Rodgers, and the Pats for Brady, then we would be talking about our back-to-back-to-back Lombardi trophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 It doesn't matter. We have no QB. Might as well keep taking defensive players to keep the game close enough to win with our lousy situation throwing the ball. A really good QB can cover up a whole host of problems. Same way a great pass rush can cover for a weak secondary. The Giants get this, the Jets do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 The numbers disagree: http://www.profootba...1-quarterbacks/ Those numbers do not take into account the talent surrounding the QB...... go pick up ELi's numbers from his first 3 years then compare them to when he actully got some talent around him. Compare Bradys Numbers in his first 3 years to when he finally started getting some talent like Welker Moss and The 2 TE's he currently works with. You will see as talent is added the numbers for the Qb get much better the numbers also get better if the QB has had the chance to play with the same players for an extended period. Sanchez has nothing close to the talent the top QB's have around them nor has he had the luxury of consistent players around him. This is a badly built offense and while I know Sanchez has a part in it hes not the entire problem by a longshot If guys who run these types of numbers really want to have any credibility they need to view the entire picture not just half of it. Lets say for instance the Jets WR's really do have an issue getting open or getting separation in the short passing game because teams play us tight. How can that not be a part of this equasion ? And how can you have access to that information when all the camera focuses on is the QB ? I have heard numerous times the Jets WR's do not get separation making it harder to get them the ball it may be true it may be bullsh*t but you cant just dismiss it. Do these wonderful websites who claim to be so knowledgeable about the game have stats running those numbers ? Do they have access to team playbooks to know when a ball is thrown 5 yards away from the receiver if he made the wrong cut or the QB made the mistake ? Im not saying this is whats happening with Sanchez but look at the WR's hes had to deal with. Different ones every year and Im not sure Plaxico and Holmes combined IQ adds up to 100 unless you add in Dustin Keller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 It doesn't matter. We have no QB. Might as well keep taking defensive players to keep the game close enough to win with our lousy situation throwing the ball. True, very true. But even a bad to average QB can compete with talent around him. Shonn Green might be the most average running back I have ever seen. Hunter is an issue and there are still no move the chains type WR's on this roster. There hasnt been one of those since Cotchery left. Sanchez does suck - but those things might make the offense good enough to compete with this defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 It doesn't matter. We have no QB. Might as well keep taking defensive players to keep the game close enough to win with our lousy situation throwing the ball. Meh at some point the defense cant get any better than it is. The offense literally struggles to gain 10 yards. Sanchez is obviously the main culprit....but teams have won games with sh*tty QB's before. The offense is just so bad at every skill position....it really makes you wonder if anyone in the organization has a clue about that side of the ball. Not to mention...with the amount of 3 and outs we'll likely see this season compunded by TJ Conley...we're already giving up field position. A couple first downs and we're down 3-0, 6-0 etc....that's really all its going to take to beat this team this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 If they invested high draft picks and big money in skill position players for Sanchez like the Saints have consistently done for Brees, the Packers for Rodgers, and the Pats for Brady, then we would be talking about our back-to-back-to-back Lombardi trophies. I realize you are being sarcastic, but those teams have all done a lot on offense to try and surround their QB's with talent. Look at what the Colts did this draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Those numbers do not take into account the talent surrounding the QB...... go pick up ELi's numbers from his first 3 years then compare them to when he actully got some talent around him. Compare Bradys Numbers in his first 3 years to when he finally started getting some talent like Welker Moss and The 2 TE's he currently works with. You will see as talent is added the numbers for the Qb get much better the numbers also get better if the QB has had the chance to play with the same players for an extended period. Sanchez has nothing close to the talent the top QB's have around them nor has he had the luxury of consistent players around him. This is a badly built offense and while I know Sanchez has a part in it hes not the entire problem by a longshot If guys who run these types of numbers really want to have any credibility they need to view the entire picture not just half of it. Lets say for instance the Jets WR's really do have an issue getting open or getting separation in the short passing game because teams play us tight. How can that not be a part of this equasion ? And how can you have access to that information when all the camera focuses on is the QB ? I have heard numerous times the Jets WR's do not get separation making it harder to get them the ball it may be true it may be bullsh*t but you cant just dismiss it. Do these wonderful websites who claim to be so knowledgeable about the game have stats running those numbers ? Do they have access to team playbooks to know when a ball is thrown 5 yards away from the receiver if he made the wrong cut or the QB made the mistake ? Im not saying this is whats happening with Sanchez but look at the WR's hes had to deal with. Different ones every year and Im not sure Plaxico and Holmes combined IQ adds up to 100 unless you add in Dustin Keller. Are you being intentionally obtuse, or do you really not understand that there is a direct correlation between the performance of the QB and his receivers? Oh, and route trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Translation: Jets are clowns on offensive talent who only knew what they were doing two times 1) When they traded up to draft Mark Sanchez and give him a gargantuan rookie deal. 2) When they extended Mark Sanchez after a crappy season. So Mark Sanchez is the only thing they got right and it is the job of every team to prop up a scrub QB so he looks less scrubbish and the Jets have failed in this task. lol You take sh*t to the extreme. Im well aware Sanchez makes bone headed mistakes and the Jury is still out as to weather the pick was good or bad. Most people here were laughing their asses off at Eli Manning before the Giants started to really make an effort to surround the guy with talent at WR and he responded especially after they got rid of that cancer Tiki Barber. All Im saying is I cant blame this all on Sanchez Im not saying hes great Im not saying anything other than to give him the same talent to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Meh at some point the defense cant get any better than it is. The offense literally struggles to gain 10 yards. Sanchez is obviously the main culprit....but teams have won games with sh*tty QB's before. The offense is just so bad at every skill position....it really makes you wonder if anyone in the organization has a clue about that side of the ball. Not to mention...with the amount of 3 and outs we'll likely see this season compunded by TJ Conley...we're already giving up field position. A couple first downs and we're down 3-0, 6-0 etc....that's really all its going to take to beat this team this year. Oh please. Ask most fans and they'll say the reason we lost to Denver last year was Eric Smith (humiliating as that last play and last drive was). Barely a mention of the net 6 points the offense scored thanks to a 2nd half pick-6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Oh please. Ask most fans and they'll say the reason we lost to Denver last year was Eric Smith (humiliating as that last play and last drive was). Barely a mention of the net 6 points the offense scored thanks to a 2nd half pick-6. ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Are you being intentionally obtuse, or do you really not understand that there is a direct correlation between the performance of the QB and his receivers? Oh, and route trees. your being obtuse because you dont understand it goes both ways I gave many examples in another thread of many QB's whose careers sky rocketed once they were given some talent to work with and declined when that talent dried up but non of that carries any weight in this conversation because of the blind hatred for Sanchez. Maybe you dont like is attitude maybe you dont like the way he plays but your tunnel vision is transparnet same way it is with the other Sanchez haters who happen to be the same bunch who hated Pennington as well. Your NFL is Qb and QB only when its still defenses that win SB's the Giants won the SB once again because their Defense got crazy hot at the right time. But hey its all about the QB with you one sided guys who keep throwing out meaningless stats without addressing the entire side of the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 the Jury is still out as to weather the pick was good or bad. Maybe for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Oh please. Ask most fans and they'll say the reason we lost to Denver last year was Eric Smith (humiliating as that last play and last drive was). Barely a mention of the net 6 points the offense scored thanks to a 2nd half pick-6. This situation literally happened to me last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 ok? ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 ok. what exactly was your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KINGDIRK Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Without a legit QB, we wont be real Super Bowl threat. It took more than a decade but even the sorry ass Redskins seem to finally have got it right. Take a plunge and try to land an elite QB. The Jets tried this and it looked great on paper. They fleeced the Browns to trade up for Sanchez. But its obvious Sanchez isnt the guy we thought he'd be. Gotta make a bold move again (ASAP) to land a potential franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 what exactly was your point? I have no point. Except that the defense could get better. Clearly fans (and perhaps the Jets FO and coaches) feel the defense needs to surrender 3-7 points instead of 10 points and then we could again win in spite of our QB situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Maybe for you. so you would have cut Eli Manning after year three right ? because he at least had decent talent around him you know the same talent that Kurt Warner Played terrible under as well. Funny he went to The cardnals and lit it up again or was that just our imagination Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Oh please. Ask most fans and they'll say the reason we lost to Denver last year was Eric Smith (humiliating as that last play and last drive was). Barely a mention of the net 6 points the offense scored thanks to a 2nd half pick-6. Thats a great point. I would like to see what Tebow could do with the first team offense. I thought that despite the OL play, Sanchez has looked no different than last year or even his first two years. Maybe you are right and that will make a difference in how the whole offense plays. Tebow has outplayed Sanchez so far imho, with far inferior talent to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 so you would have cut Eli Manning after year three right ? because he at least had decent talent around him you know the same talent that Kurt Warner Played terrible under as well. Funny he went to The cardnals and lit it up again or was that just our imagination For every Eli, there are 10 Kyle Boller's. Eli was a ton better by that time. Maybe not in numbers - but he made more difficult throws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I have no point. Except that the defense could get better. Clearly fans (and perhaps the Jets FO and coaches) feel the defense needs to surrender 3-7 points instead of 10 points and then we could again win in spite of our QB situation. I think we'd be better off trying to build the team like it was in 2008/2009/2010 than keep adding defense, defense, defense and ignore the offense entirely...which is what we did this offseason essentially. The offense is going to struggle to get first downs...the Giants game Saturday is kind of how I expect the seasont to go...even though the D played pretty good...they're still going to give up field goals due to sh*tty field position...because the QB and the offense cant move the ball and the punter cant punt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Thats a great point. I would like to see what Tebow could do with the first team offense. I thought that despite the OL play, Sanchez has looked no different than last year or even his first two years. Maybe you are right and that will make a difference in how the whole offense plays. Tebow has outplayed Sanchez so far imho, with far inferior talent to work with. is there really a difference between the first team offense and the second team offense? Holmes is hurt either way. Tebow looks like sh*t imo. He's thrown the one read curl routes and slant routes. Awesome. If you cant make those throws you cant play in the ACC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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