You know what amazes me....

[Jetsfan80]

You're obviously including games in which the opponents scored on defense and special teams, which skew the Jets' defensive stats because of less defensive opportunities.

Most of those defensive scores happened on Sanchez pick 6's. So I don't see how the D should have it held against them in those instances.

[JFtoLong]

The defense was poor vs. the Steelers. It would have been nice if our offense showed up in the first half as well.

I guess I'm just missing your point. You seem to be defending Sanchez and believe he's a good QB. But on the other hand, you believe the Jets havent developed him properly and blame Rex.

My point is simple, Rex has done some good things here, so has Sanchez.

Rex gets a free pass whenever the defense sh*ts the bed.

Sanchez get's killed whenever the offense struggles, not only when he struggles, but when the offense struggles.

That is it.

I think Ryan is a bad HC.

Good defensive coordinator, bad HC.

He had a lot of luck early on, let's see how he fairs with no luck.

I think Sanchez could have been good, now I question whether that will ever happen.

I also question if Rex will ever be a good HC.

[Jetsfan80]

He had a lot of luck early on, let's see how he fairs with no luck.

What luck? The Jets have been # 1 in pass defense ever since Rex arrived. That's not luck, that's a trend.

[JiFtheOracle]

My point is simple, Rex has done some good things here, so has Sanchez.

Rex gets a free pass whenever the defense sh*ts the bed.

I dont know why you think that. There have been numerous threads started this week about how the Jets are soft and Rex Ryan's defense sucks.

Sanchez get's killed whenever the offense struggles, not only when he struggles, but when the offense struggles.

That is it.

There are many posters here who put too much on Sanchez, but the fact remains, he's been a big piece of turd in the NFL and grades out as one of the worst QB's in the league.

I think Ryan is a bad HC.

Good defensive coordinator, bad HC.

He had a lot of luck early on, let's see how he fairs with no luck.

Rex Ryan's record as a HC says otherwise. The Giants got lucky last year.

I think Sanchez could have been good, now I question whether that will ever happen.

I also question if Rex will ever be a good HC.

Rex is a better HC than Sanchez is a QB. The proof is in Rex's ability to be successful despite having one of the worst QB's in the league and the fact his defense always grades out in the top 5.

[Jetsfan80]

Rex is a better HC than Sanchez is a QB. The proof is in Rex's ability to be successful despite having one of the worst QB's in the league and the fact he defense always grades out in the top 5.

But what if someone, let's say for example JFtoLong, isn't willing to accept that Sanchez is one of the worst QB's in the league? WHAT THEN, HMMMM????

[JFtoLong]

Rex is a better HC than Sanchez is a QB. The proof is in Rex's ability to be successful despite having one of the worst QB's in the league and the fact he defense always grades out in the top 5.

I don't agree.

Rex has one of the best defensive players in the league, maybe of all time in Revis. That is a huge advantage to Rex that Sanchez does not have.

Now that Sanchez is at a point where it is fair to evaluate him (year 4), he has no oline, no receivers, and no running game.

I put those flaws on Rex as much as anyone else.

[JiFtheOracle]

I don't agree.

Rex has one of the best defensive players in the league, maybe of all time in Revis. That is a huge advantage to Rex that Sanchez does not have.

Now that Sanchez is at a point where it is fair to evaluate him (year 4), he has no oline, no receivers, and no running game.

I put those flaws on Rex as much as anyone else.

Cool. Agree to disagree. I'd say my case has a little more validity than yours but I digress.

And why do you think the OL is bad this year? He seems to have plenty of time. The only 2 sacks on the year came last game and one was complete garbage time. Thats pretty good. Wonder where that ranks among other OL's. And the receivers looked fine against Buffalo. The Steelers at home tend to make teams look bad, especially a visiting offense.

Dont know why anyone is going to the extremes they are right now after week 2...but I guess that what fans do.

To be honest, I'm not worried about either. I think Sanchez will have a good year and when its all said and done, the Jets will boast one of the best D's in the league, again.

[JFtoLong]

Cool. Agree to disagree. I'd say my case has a little more validity than yours but I digress.

And why do you think the OL is bad this year? He seems to have plenty of time. The only 2 sacks on the year came last game and one was complete garbage time. Thats pretty good. Wonder where that ranks among other OL's. And the receivers looked fine against Buffalo. The Steelers at home tend to make teams look bad, especially a visiting offense.

Dont know why anyone is going to the extremes they are right now after week 2...but I guess that what fans do.

To be honest, I'm not worried about either. I think Sanchez will have a good year and when its all said and done, the Jets will boast one of the best D's in the league, again.

I have no problem agreeing to disagree, we are all in it for the same cause.

I think the Jets are needing to use a lot of extra blockers to keep Sanchez on his feet, and that hurts the passing game.

They also cannot run block for sh*t.

I am mostly of the opinion that in today's NFL, the line is much more important than the back.

Look at Johnson in Tn, he did not all the sudden become a sh*t back, his line cannot block.

Same with Greene, I blame the line way more than him.

We will see, I hope you are right, if Sanchez has a good year, and the defense is top 5, the Jets will be in the playoffs, that is what we all want.

[JiFtheOracle]

I have no problem agreeing to disagree, we are all in it for the same cause.

I think the Jets are needing to use a lot of extra blockers to keep Sanchez on his feet, and that hurts the passing game.

They also cannot run block for sh*t.

I am mostly of the opinion that in today's NFL, the line is much more important than the back.

Look at Johnson in Tn, he did not all the sudden become a sh*t back, his line cannot block.

Same with Greene, I blame the line way more than him.

We will see, I hope you are right, if Sanchez has a good year, and the defense is top 5, the Jets will be in the playoffs, that is what we all want.

All good buddy, I think its a little to early for all these sweeping generalizations. Go Jets! Squish the fish!

[JFtoLong]

But what if someone, let's say for example JFtoLong, isn't willing to accept that Sanchez is one of the worst QB's in the league? WHAT THEN, HMMMM????

I know I said I wouldn't debate you anymore, but I need to reply to this.

Sanchez performed as one of the worst QB's in the league last season.

The year before I thought he was decent, especially for a 2nd year QB.

I think with Sanchez people look at the results and not the cause.

Sanchez made a ton of terrible decisions last year that were completely inexcusable, there is no denying that.

But, I also think there is no denying that the oline SUCKED last year, as did the WR's.

There's a reason Plax is not in the NFL right now.

QB's get too much blame for a bad offense, and sometimes too much credit for a good one.

They are the most important player on the field, but they cannot do it all by themselves.

My opinion is if given the right people around him, Sanchez can be a top half of the league QB. Not sure if he can be a top 10 QB or not.

I don't think he has the right people around him to properly judge him right now.

If Hill can play more like he did in week 1, and Howard can play a good RT, we can fairly evaluate him.

[Jetsfan80]

Rex has one of the best defensive players in the league, maybe of all time in Revis. That is a huge advantage to Rex that Sanchez does not have.

Meh, every great defense in the NFL needs a superstar. The Niners have Patrick Willis. The Ravens have Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs, and Haloti Ngata. You can't hold it against Rex that he has Revis, especially considering the team went 3-0 without him in 2010.

Take Revis away and our defense still finds a way to finish top 5. It certainly doesn't COLLAPSE.

[JFtoLong]

Meh, every great defense in the NFL needs a superstar. The Niners have Patrick Willis. The Ravens have Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs, and Haloti Ngata. You can't hold it against Rex that he has Revis, especially considering the team went 3-0 without him in 2010.

Take Revis away and our defense still finds a way to finish top 5. It certainly doesn't COLLAPSE.

I disagree on the top 5, agree that it does not collapse.

But there is a big gap between the two.

I think without Revis they are a very average defense.

They don't pressure the QB, cannot cover RB's or TE's and would struggle to cover a number 1 receiver.

The only thing they would still do well is defend the run, even that is debatable becuase they would need to keep more guys back in coverage without Revis.

[JFtoLong]

All good buddy, I think its a little to early for all these sweeping generalizations. Go Jets! Squish the fish!

I agree, my thread has more to do with the sweeping generalizations about how bad Sanchez is.

Yup, lets kick the sh*t out of those teal fish.

[BroadwayJoe12]

[JFtoLong]

Ever? Come on, maybe bottom 5, but worst ever?

[keith075]

Sanchez has had a crap line and crap receivers for 2 years, and is cut no slack by many Jets fans.

Sanchez has shown me at least, that if given time, when receivers are open, he can be an adequate starting QB.

It's like every bad pass Sanchez throws, overwrites 10 good passes.

His receivers play like dog sh*t, and it's his fault for throwing one bad pass, which EVERY QB in football does, EVERY ONE.

There is no need to explain it away, he has been inconsistent at best.

Year 1 and 2 were good situations for him, and he performed well.

Year 3 and now, sh*t situations, and he performed sh*t.

A rookie QB with 10 college starts starting in the NFL is supposed to be what exactly his rookie year??

His 2nd year I thought he showed improvement, again, he had plenty of bad games, but most young QB's do.

So what you're saying is, Sanchez is an inconsistent quarterback that struggled in his 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year. While he had a few bright moments, he tends to choke 1 out of every 10 passes and he is often inconsistent if the line or other aspects of the offense struggle. In your opinion though, it has absolutely nothing to do with Sanchez himself...it is obviously a diabolical plot against him that Ryan and the defensive coordinators dreamed up. The conspiracy goes so deep, in fact, that the team intentionally hires 2nd rate linemen and wide receivers just to make him look bad.

Good Lord, and I thought I didn't like the Jets much- You make me look like their #1 fan!

[T0mShane]

It is fascinating how boobs can be the be the trump card. Natural big boobs are like a gift of nature, you have to look at them in awe like you're watching a humpback whale shoot out of the ocean beside your boat or a lion walk right by your car on a safari.

Thinking about boobs just made me so happy.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Thinking about boobs just made me so happy.

Oh and f*ck John Mayer.

[Jetsouth]

Thinking about boobs just made me so happy.

Just not too big...

[JFtoLong]

So what you're saying is, Sanchez is an inconsistent quarterback that struggled in his 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year. While he had a few bright moments, he tends to choke 1 out of every 10 passes and he is often inconsistent if the line or other aspects of the offense struggle. In your opinion though, it has absolutely nothing to do with Sanchez himself...it is obviously a diabolical plot against him that Ryan and the defensive coordinators dreamed up. The conspiracy goes so deep, in fact, that the team intentionally hires 2nd rate linemen and wide receivers just to make him look bad.

Good Lord, and I thought I didn't like the Jets much- You make me look like their #1 fan!

You said all of that, not me.

Are you here to insight and cause trouble, or are you here to have good discussion?

If it's the former, lick your Marino never won a SB wounds somewhere else.

[keith075]

You said all of that, not me.

Are you here to insight and cause trouble, or are you here to have good discussion?

If it's the former, lick your Marino never won a SB wounds somewhere else.

I can see where quoting your own words (which often conflicted) would be confusing. That was my main insight; through your own arguments, you've managed to prove everyone's point but your own.

[JFtoLong]

I can see where quoting your own words (which often conflicted) would be confusing. That was my main insight; through your own arguments, you've managed to prove everyone's point but your own.

K, thanks sport.

Know what's funny, for as bad as Sanchez is, he has as many SB wins as Marino.

[keith075]

K, thanks sport.

Know what's funny, for as bad as Sanchez is, he has as many SB wins as Marino.

So do you and I...does that allow you to sleep better at night? I think it's amusing that whenever someone wants to attack the Fins, that's their go-to statistic. Forget that he broke nearly every passing record of that era (including several held by Broadway Joe); people discredit him because he never won the big game. Fair enough I guess...if you have to have something to bash the guy with.

Again, I also saw that you pointed out once again that Sanchez is bad....you really just need to pick a theme and stick with it. In my opinion, Sanchez is simply an average QB that has some good and bad moments. His contract extension was ridiculous though and he's easily the most over-paid player under center, but that's on the front office; not Sanchez himself. Your problem isn't really Sanchez at all but the perception of the media and other people who post here. They expect every down to be perfect and by mid-season, they look back just at statistics (not accounting for dropped passes, tipped balls for picks, etc) and say, "You see, that's dead-on proof our guy is horrible." You can make statistics work for absolutely anything though; it means nothing if it was generated from a biased view.

We went through the same thing with Chad Henne for 3 seasons; the guy lead the league before he got hurt last year on 3rd down efficiency (for 2011 and 2012) and he had the 5th best rating overall (up until week 5 when he went down). He also led the preseason in yards from scrimmage and had the 3rd best overall QB rating, but all we heard was "We Want Orton!" That's just idiots that don't know football talking and you need to learn to let that crap go in one ear and out the other.

[JFtoLong]

So do you and I...does that allow you to sleep better at night? I think it's amusing that whenever someone wants to attack the Fins, that's their go-to statistic. Forget that he broke nearly every passing record of that era (including several held by Broadway Joe); people discredit him because he never won the big game. Fair enough I guess...if you have to have something to bash the guy with.

Again, I also saw that you pointed out once again that Sanchez is bad....you really just need to pick a theme and stick with it. In my opinion, Sanchez is simply an average QB that has some good and bad moments. His contract extension was ridiculous though and he's easily the most over-paid player under center, but that's on the front office; not Sanchez himself. Your problem isn't really Sanchez at all but the perception of the media and other people who post here. They expect every down to be perfect and by mid-season, they look back just at statistics (not accounting for dropped passes, tipped balls for picks, etc) and say, "You see, that's dead-on proof our guy is horrible." You can make statistics work for absolutely anything though; it means nothing if it was generated from a biased view.

We went through the same thing with Chad Henne for 3 seasons; the guy lead the league before he got hurt last year on 3rd down efficiency (for 2011 and 2012) and he had the 5th best rating overall (up until week 5 when he went down). He also led the preseason in yards from scrimmage and had the 3rd best overall QB rating, but all we heard was "We Want Orton!" That's just idiots that don't know football talking and you need to learn to let that crap go in one ear and out the other.

I actually agree with some of your points here.

Some

[Smashmouth]

.....sigh

I guess context has no meaning here?

A rookie QB with 10 college starts starting in the NFL is supposed to be what exactly his rookie year??

His 2nd year I thought he showed improvement, again, he had plenty of bad games, but most young QB's do.

In the playoffs he was great, and the defense was much more the reason they lost in Pittsburg than Sanchez.

The defense was the reason we lost to the colts in year 1 as well since Sanchez got us to a 17-6 lead .

[JFtoLong]

The defense was the reason we lost to the colts in year 1 as well since Sanchez got us to a 17-6 lead .

Very true

[Vicious89x]

Very true

Yes. Hold a HOF QB to only fg's. Seems reasonable.

[JFtoLong]

Yes. Hold a HOF QB to only fg's. Seems reasonable.

Not necessarily, but the defense completely folded,once we went up 17-6

[jorge o8]

In the 3+ years under Rex Ryan, the Jet Defense has always been and still is overrated because it has never been able to stop teams when it mattered most ... in big situations, in big games, against top QBs.

On the flip side, over those same 3+ years, Sanchez has elevated his play when it mattered most ... in big situations, in big games, against top QBs.

i have to put that on bad drafting i love my jets but god their scout team sucks the o line is geting old and we let good players go and put backups to take their place they are backups for a reson we need a new GM

[Vicious89x]

Not necessarily, but the defense completely folded,once we went up 17-6

What was the final score?

[Larz]

it amazes me going from the #1 defense to the #6 defense is "regressing"

only jets fans

only jets fans

[RonnieLott]

Any Head Coach that can go 28-20 (4-2 postseason) with a dogsh*t QB has my respect.

LMFAO about winning with a dogsh*t QB. that being said, if Rex does not lead the Jets deep into the playoffs this season, it is his fault. He has put this team in said dogsh*t QB's hands, saying he will no longer be perceived as a weakness but a strength now in his 4th year. If Rex cannot pull this off with said mediocre QB, it is and should be his fault. He drafted him, put confidence in him. He should lie in his bed.....

[stoicsentry]

In the 3+ years under Rex Ryan, the Jet Defense has always been and still is overrated because it has never been able to stop teams when it mattered most ... in big situations, in big games, against top QBs.

Um... early 2011 on the road in the playoffs against the Colts (PEYTON MANNING) and Patriots (TOM BRADY) back to back. Those offenses did next to nothing against us. That doesn't count because _______?

[JFtoLong]

Um... early 2011 on the road in the playoffs against the Colts (PEYTON MANNING) and Patriots (TOM BRADY) back to back. Those offenses did next to nothing against us. That doesn't count because _______?

The Pats playoff game was Rex's greatest moment.

That Colts game was won with special teams and Sanchez.

[Smashmouth]

Um... early 2011 on the road in the playoffs against the Colts (PEYTON MANNING) and Patriots (TOM BRADY) back to back. Those offenses did next to nothing against us. That doesn't count because _______?

Stoic it counts, no one said it didnt but getting steamrolled by the Steelers in the next game in the first half then not being able to get a big stop at the end when our offense was hot and primed for a comback victory was a killer. The Colts the Pats the Steelers the Giants always seem to make a big stop at the end to give their QB's a shot even though our defense is better than 3 of those teams stat wise we have not been a big play defense when its needed most. Just like a QB needs to dirve his team up the field for the big win at the end the defense needs to make the big stop at the end to give him that chance and we failed vs the Steelers in the AFCCG. Sure the offense had a bad first half but things like that happen vs great playoff defenses and they happen to every QB from Johnny Unitas up to Peyton Manning someone has to step up and the Jets, weather it be offense or defense never seem to do it.