Report: Revis *would* get $12-$13 mil per from Bucs--financials sorted already

[bitonti]

No one has said 2nd round compensation is totally fine.

 

Per Peter King, the current proposal is next years Bucs 1 and 2. Believe who you want to believe.

 

If draft picks are such a "crap shoot", not sure why teams don't give up picks for franchised players more often, yet you don't see it. 

 

Just because you can poinjt out that some draft picks fail, does not mean all draft picks fail. That is idiotic thinking. Especially coming from a guy who reports on the draftability of players. Why just not throw names in a hat then?

 

 

maybe it's because i've seen so many players come and go. Every year there's a bunch of supposedly great picks that fail. They are all chancey but at least with a first there's a decent shot at getting a starter and a realistic chance of getting a star. 

[bitonti]

the difference between 2013 1st and 2014 first could be 10+ slots. Chances are that Revis makes that team better and they aren't sub .500 in 2014. It's a fact that the Jets were better with Revis than without him and the same is true of the Bucs.

 

 I don't blame the Jets for holding out for as much as possible. Worst case they get "nothing" but at least the league knows you can't bend the Jets over (anymore). 

[GangisGreen]

If Bucs are really offering a 1st and 2nd in 2014 Idzik would be nuts not to take that.

[JustInFudge]

It's not contradictory.  If TB is willing to pay up to $12-13M and Revis is willing to accept that, it is not the same thing as Revis going to the Jets and saying he'd be willing to take a $12-13M/year contract if they would extend it to him.

 

It doesn't have to necessarily drive it up $4M (and I said I doubt it would drive it up that much).  It would drive it up as much as it will go up.  Then he'll know he got the most he could.  If it drives it up zero then it drives it up zero.  If it drives his dollars up $500K/year then it's $500K per year he wouldn't have otherwise had.  

 

As far as it being completely bogus, that could be as well.  Another article came out that said TB is willing to pay him up to $15M/year.  Both articles can't be right...and one of the two was written by Mehta. 

 

Its pretty much the same thing because the end # is the same.  It sets a standard or in this case, a market.  This is the same type of negotiations I do on a daily basis.  Its completely bogus.  Nobody does business that way.  Especially with the precedent that Revis camp has show in the past. 

[Sperm Edwards]

the difference between 2013 1st and 2014 first could be 10+ slots. Chances are that Revis makes that team better and they aren't sub .500 in 2014. It's a fact that the Jets were better with Revis than without him and the same is true of the Bucs.

 

 I don't blame the Jets for holding out for as much as possible. Worst case they get "nothing" but at least the league knows you can't bend the Jets over (anymore). 

 

And then they could only end up with the #23 pick? Oh no.

 

Jets started out with the #25 pick or so in 2007.  So you're saying it was foolish to do what they did with it.  Instead, they should have traded that #1 pick and their second round pick for a future HOF,known quantity non-QB (Brian Urlacher, etc.) still in his late 20s, paid him a top-10 NFL salary, rather than crap-shooting on a draft pick in the 13-14 range.

 

Got it.

[SenorGato]

anyone who says the Jets need to trade Revis for a 2nd rather than see him "walk for nothing" is a revis hater in my book. It sounds rational but actually discounts this player's talent and resume to a ridiculous extent.

It discounts more than the player's talent, though it does that severely. It doesn't even sound rational unless you're speaking about Regular Joe Starter Y and not about an elite player like Revis.

[Scott Dierking]

It discounts more than the player's talent, though it does that severely. It doesn't even sound rational unless you're speaking about Regular Joe Starter Y and not about an elite player like Revis.

Is this even supposed to make sense?

[Sperm Edwards]

Its pretty much the same thing because the end # is the same.  It sets a standard or in this case, a market.  This is the same type of negotiations I do on a daily basis.  Its completely bogus.  Nobody does business that way.  Especially with the precedent that Revis camp has show in the past. 

 

The end number is not the same.

 

When you make an opening bid, you say, "I'd like $12-13M and if you made that offer to me now I'd take it," you will probably end up with less.

 

That is not the same as allowing the Jets to know if another team - who is actively trying to acquire him - offered that much that he'd take it.  That is his number.  Particularly when that number is (allegedly) from a team that plays in a no-tax state compared to NJ's 8.9%.

[flgreen]

If Bucs are really offering a 1st and 2nd in 2014 Idzik would be nuts not to take that.

HATER!!!!!!!!!! 

 

How dare you disagree with Bit

[pedro55]

Best interests are fine. last year's 2nd round was Stephen Hill. Is Revis for Stephen Hill a fair trade? The "trade him for whatever" crowd is underrating revis and overrating draft picks. Friggin Kellen Clemens was a 2nd rounder. It's a total crapshoot.

 

I'd rather have a first rounder too, but throwing out Hill and Clemens does what?      

You can also say who would trade Revis for Sanchez or Gholston or Kyle Wilson or even Dbrick?  

Or for that matter Revis for Coples.      

 

You really can't look at trades like that when it comes to draft picks.  It be great to get the 13th pick and a 3rd and a 2nd next season.

But if they got a 2nd this year, a 1st next year and a 2nd or 3rd next year as well,  is it really that big of a difference?   Maybe instead of 13th they get 20th or 25th.  Or maybe they get 10th.    

 

  If the Jets don't trade Revis and he walks in 2014 for basically nothing,  then it'll look bad on Idzik.

[JustInFudge]

The end number is not the same.

 

When you make an opening bid, you say, "I'd like $12-13M and if you made that offer to me now I'd take it," you will probably end up with less.

 

That is not the same as allowing the Jets to know if another team - who is actively trying to acquire him - offered that much that he'd take it.  That is his number.  Particularly when that number is (allegedly) from a team that plays in a no-tax state compared to NJ's 8.9%.

 

Good point.  GFY

[jetsjetsjetss]

  I don't think Denver has any money left after they sign a Dwight, Jon, or Elvis(again) on top of everybody else this offseason.    

The 49ers gave up a 6th round pick for a WR who scored a TD and had over 100 yards receiving against them in a Super Bowl.

What makes you think they are suddenly going to give up a bunch of picks for Revis?

 

true but both those teams are in a win now mode. Once you get to a certain point with all young good players the draft really isnt the most important thing. They both gotta win now , for denver before manning gets to old and for 49ers before they have to break up the team for money reason or just free agency. Cant have a guy wait 2 years to develop when manning may only have 2 years to be in the nfl

[SenorGato]

Is this even supposed to make sense?

I'm auditioning to have that question asked to me often.

[SenorGato]

Why does that 49ers 6th for a WR have anything to do with what they would give up for Revis?

[SenorGato]

Good point. GFY

Don't forget Revis has those 3 million dollar bonuses with Los Yets.

[pedro55]

Why does that 49ers 6th for a WR have anything to do with what they would give up for Revis?

 

  Because it shows you what a team might be willing to give up.    

The Seahawks parted with a ton of picks to get Harvin.  What does that have to do with Revis?  Nothing and everything.

 

  If a team who has something like 14 picks this year and their first is what, the 31st, and they are only willing to give up a 6th round pick for a guy who just helped a team beat them in the Super bowl,  it's probably going to be the same team who won't give much up to get Revis.   They might give up more than a 6th, but I doubt they'd give up a first.  Hence, why they haven't been in any of the conversations.  The only rumor from them is they aren't interested.

 

 The Seahawks, if interested, would probably be a team who overpaid draft picks for Revis.  That seems to be the way they do business.   

 

   Some teams dump draft picks, like the Jets did for years,  some teams hang on to them.   Right now it seems the Bucs and Jets are fighting over the 13th pick and nobody else seems to be in the conversation.

 

  This is where you need to know what leverage you have and what leverage you don't have.  Revis seems to be out of the conversation. So that means the jets have no clue if he really will come back after all of this.  It's one thing if they were trying to hash out a deal with him and if they couldn't, they are forced to trade. It's another to be ignoring him and sort of pissing off him and his agents.  Except they haven't pulled a TO or Randy Moss yet.  Idzik also needs to know what kind of leverage they have over another team.  Maybe the Bucs are desperate enough and think they are a player like Revis away from being a contender.    He also has to know that a team like the 49ers just traded a 6th round pick for a guy and probably would just bail if he asked too much.  

 

 We don't really know what kind of GM Idzik is yet.  Right now he's just holding onto Revis.   This trade or non-trade might define his entire regime.

[Sperm Edwards]

So far the only media source that has ever put a number out there less than $15M/year is Manish Mehta.  Let that sink in for a moment.

 

If we can get him for $12M/year (which would, appropriately, make him the highest paid NFL CB by a good amount despite coming off a busted ACL) and that contract has sufficient penalty clauses to prevent holdouts, then we should keep him.  If he still feels he needs to be in the $15M/year (or more) stratosphere, in particular if he won't make the same mistake twice by allowing anti-holdout language in it, he can piss off.

[SenorGato]

Anquan Boldin's price has nothing to do with Revis. He was had for a 6th because he's in his mid-30's, isn't fast, was going to be cut, and has a laundry list of injuries in his past. A 6th is not the price of a currently elite player, and a recent SB victory only serves to remind people that Boldin was once one of the best in the league. If anything the 49ers giving up a pick instead of waiting for him to be cut was paying more for him than they should have.

[pedro55]

So far the only media source that has ever put a number out there less than $15M/year is Manish Mehta.  Let that sink in for a moment.

 

If we can get him for $12M/year (which would, appropriately, make him the highest paid NFL CB by a good amount despite coming off a busted ACL) and that contract has sufficient penalty clauses to prevent holdouts, then we should keep him.  If he still feels he needs to be in the $15M/year (or more) stratosphere, in particular if he won't make the same mistake twice by allowing anti-holdout language in it, he can piss off.

 

  Champ Bailey signed a contract in what, 2010, where he's averaged about $10.5 - $11 Million per season.  

So if Revis is better than Bailey and a hell of a lot younger, I'm sure they'd look at this contract.

[pedro55]

Anquan Boldin's price has nothing to do with Revis. He was had for a 6th because he's in his mid-30's, isn't fast, was going to be cut, and has a laundry list of injuries in his past. A 6th is not the price of a currently elite player, and a recent SB victory only serves to remind people that Boldin was once one of the best in the league. If anything the 49ers giving up a pick instead of waiting for him to be cut was paying more for him than they should have.

 

  Yeah because Revis didn't get injured and missed the entire season in 2012 and

because some team like the Bucs can't just wait till 2014 to sign Revis to the same monster contract and give up no draft picks.

 

 It's not about an elite player.  Obviously Revis would bring back more than Boldin. But do the 49ers think they should give up that much more for him?   The fact they aren't in any conversations and they stated they aren't interested kind of says they don't think Revis is worth what the jets are asking.

[Sperm Edwards]

  Champ Bailey signed a contract in what, 2010, where he's averaged about $10.5 - $11 Million per season.  

So if Revis is better than Bailey and a hell of a lot younger, I'm sure they'd look at this contract.

 

Yeah he did.  With $15M guaranteed.  See how far that gets you with Revis.  Also, Bailey wasn't coming off an ACL injury.

[SenorGato]

Yeah because Revis didn't get injured and missed the entire season in 2012.

What? What's your point?

Revis now >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Boldin now, and that would reflect fully in a trade.

[pedro55]

Yeah he did.  With $15M guaranteed.  See how far that gets you with Revis.

 

  That's what I'm saying though.  $12 Million per year is not much more than what Bailey makes and he's old and even though he's a pro bowler, he's nowhere near as good as a healthy Revis.   If Revis and Agents look at this contract, why would they need to look at anybody elses. Even with the CB market being relatively cheap this offseason,  he can just point to Bailey making $11 mil per year and how much younger and better he is and if he is healthy, $12 million is a bargain.

[SenorGato]

Yeah he did. With $15M guaranteed. See how far that gets you with Revis.

~1/3 of the way there and 15 million in.

Bailey in 2012:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17454037

Bailey will turn 33 in June and will be 36 in 2014, the final year of his deal.

The industry will report this as a four-year, $43 million contract (he can push it to $47 million with incentives like Pro Bowl appearances, which in Bailey's case are hardly unreachable) with $22 million guaranteed.

Here's how it breaks down: Bailey will receive a fully guaranteed $11 million salary in 2011, $11 million in 2012, and $10.5 million in both 2013 and 2014.

The first week of the 2011 season will trigger a

FIRST-AND-ORANGE BRONCOS BLOG

The Denver Post's NFL reporters post analysis, notes and minutiae on this blog devoted to the Denver Broncos.

guarantee worth $4 million for 2012. Bailey's remaining $7 million salary in 2012 will be guaranteed against injury, and it will become fully guaranteed on the fifth day of the 2012 league year.

Bailey just finished a seven-year, $63 million contract with the Broncos. So the new deal, on average, represents a $2 million-a-year raise.

[pedro55]

What? What's your point?

Revis now >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Boldin now, and that would reflect fully in a trade.

 

  I don't think you comprehend the point.    Of course Revis is better and Revis would get more than some 6th round pick.  But again, why are the 49ers not in any of the conversations for Revis when they are probably one of only two teams who could use him the most and legitimately be considered the Super Bowl favorites after getting him?   Seems the 49ers don't think Revis is worth a couple of firsts and then some.

[SenorGato]

I don't think you comprehend the point. Of course Revis is better and Revis would get more than some 6th round pick. But again, why are the 49ers not in any of the conversations for Revis when they are probably one of only two teams who could use him the most and legitimately be considered the Super Bowl favorites after getting him? Seems the 49ers don't think Revis is worth a couple of firsts and then some.

I don't think you get what I'm saying. Boldin has nothing to do with Revis, you should stop trying to connect the two.

Also, I would not be surprised in the slightest if the 49ers are involved past the levels even Jets beat writers can get to.

[Sperm Edwards]

~1/3 of the way there and 15 million in.

 

 

I don't know what this means.

[SenorGato]

I don't know what this means.

Of course you don't. You also missed the difference between 22 and 15 on Bailey's deal.

[Sperm Edwards]

Of course you don't. You also missed the difference between 22 and 15 on Bailey's deal.

 

Denver could have cut him just because they don't want him anymore after 1 year and it would have been a one-time doable cap hit.  Not much of a guarantee.

[SenorGato]

Denver could have cut him just because they don't want him anymore after 1 year and it would have been a one-time doable cap hit.  Not much of a guarantee.

 

That was simply a precaution just in case this 33 year old non-impact player were to get injured. Denver was never going to part with Bailey after one year, that was barely a threat. 

 

11 million guaranteed salary in 2011, 4 million bonus for 2012 a week into the 2011 season would be your 15 million as there was no signing bonus. Once 2012 hit he was guaranteed his 11 million after a week so he's up to 26 million just by staying healthy and meeting extremely light incentives. That chunk of payroll and light incentive guarantee was handed to a mid-30's non-impact position player on a team that already has everything necessary to win football games (one QB, one pass rusher). Seems so strange of a smart franchise like Denver...

[Scott Dierking]

Revis and his agents are operating in a 2010 NFL world when the reality is that this is the 2012 NFL with new economics. There is a new CBA and the players got taken in some parts. There is less sharing, and if Revis and his agents have not paid attention, they would be missing that the salary cap is relatively flatlined. They would realize that BIG deals are not being given out on the regular basis that they once were. They would realize that large signing bonuses are becoming a thing of the past. They would recognize that you don't spend a bushelfull on a position such as CB, when your money can be appropriated more smartly in difference making positions.

 

The Jets now realize this, but Revis and his agent seem not to.

[bitonti]

the fact that the rumored offer from TB keeps going up is a really good sign that the Jets might well get that big package. If it was up to the board you guys would have offloaded him for anything weeks ago. The leverage really is with the Jets. They have Revis under contract for another whole year. That's the bottom line. 

[SenorGato]

Revis and his agents are operating in a 2010 NFL world when the reality is that this is the 2012 NFL with new economics. There is a new CBA and the players got taken in some parts. There is less sharing, and if Revis and his agents have not paid attention, they would be missing that the salary cap is relatively flatlined. They would realize that BIG deals are not being given out on the regular basis that they once were. They would realize that large signing bonuses are becoming a thing of the past. They would recognize that you don't spend a bushelfull on a position such as CB, when your money can be appropriated more smartly in difference making positions.

 

The Jets now realize this, but Revis and his agent seem not to.

 

Anyone else crack up a little? Yeah, that should mean Revis should never even make the attempt to make money when he can make money. He should be EASY to negotiate with because winning without elite players is EASY and we can replace him EASY and life is EASY and being great is EASY and...ugh...it's such incredibly and obviously shallow "analysis.

 

The absurdity of the thought process will never cease to stun. Woody's got some excellent friends in you people, but he really doesn't care. 

[Sperm Edwards]

That was simply a precaution just in case this 33 year old non-impact player were to get injured. Denver was never going to part with Bailey after one year, that was barely a threat. 

 

11 million guaranteed salary in 2011, 4 million bonus for 2012 a week into the 2011 season would be your 15 million as there was no signing bonus. Once 2012 hit he was guaranteed his 11 million after a week so he's up to 26 million just by staying healthy and meeting extremely light incentives. That chunk of payroll and light incentive guarantee was handed to a mid-30's non-impact position player on a team that already has everything necessary to win football games (one QB, one pass rusher). Seems so strange of a smart franchise like Denver...

 

It has nothing to do with Denver threatening him.  It was reality if they thought he wasn't as good, as many players hit a wall.  They also had leverage in forcing him to take a pay cut if they so desired (as they did with Dumervil).  Revis would never sign such a deal and will not sign such a deal.  The guy wanted in excess of that as an average, now you're suggesting he'd accept that much as the only guaranteed amount of a 4-year deal? lol

 

And, as SD just mentioned, times are different now.  The cap limit was expected to go up as it had done annually and without exception in the past.  A year after this contract was inked there was a new CBA and the cap has been flat since then.  They also didn't have to deal with Revis's extra $3M hit per year that you love bringing up.  

 

Bailey under this deal = average $10.75M/year cap hit.  

 

Revis under a fictitious new $12-13M/year deal = $15.5M/year cap hit. 

 

Totally the same thing.

[bassmaster2]

anyone who says the Jets need to trade Revis for a 2nd rather than see him "walk for nothing" is a revis hater in my book. It sounds rational but actually discounts this player's talent and resume to a ridiculous extent. 

The Jets are not going to the super bowl next year and there is no need for Revis , if the jets can not sign him to a contract , trade him for the best deal , I would take a 2 better than getting nothing but the Jets will probably get a 1 this year or next year