Sal Paolantonio top 5 immediate impact draft prospects

[JiFtheOracle]

Yeah but my issue is I think there's a larger disparity between Warmack and the other OGs to be found in R2 and beyond vs Austin and the possible WRs still around R2 and beyond.

 

See, I dont.  Warmack, Cooper, Warford.  Flip a coin who has a better career, IMO.  But more importantly, who would help impact the Jets more, still a coin flip.  Whereas, I think Austin is heads and shoulders better than any WR in this draft.  

 

In a scenario where the Jets dont have access to one of the top pass rushers, I'd prefer Austin over Warmack and target Warford in the 2nd.

[JiFtheOracle]

Warmack + Hunter/Hopkins/Woods sounds a lot sexier than Austin + Long/Warford to me.

 

Haha, Ninja'd.  I guess we just disagree.  

[JiFtheOracle]

 Austin had Geno Smith as QB.    DHB is second in Maryland's history for receiving yards.  He was the MVP of Maryland's offense.

I would say Geno Smith was the MVP of WV last year, not Austin.   

 

Austin and Geno are #1 for receiving and passing in school history.

 

DHB is 3rd for receiving in Maryland's history, Chris Turner his QB, was 2nd all time in passing.  Some might argue Turner was the MVP.

 

Your point? 

[pedro55]

Austin and Geno are #1 for receiving and passing in school history.

 

DHB is 3rd for receiving in Maryland's history, Chris Turner his QB, was 2nd all time in passing.  Some might argue Turner was the MVP.

 

Your point? 

 

 Point is DHB shouldn't have been taken so early.   Not by the Raiders.    Austin shouldn't be taken early. Not by the Jets.

 

 And come on about the QBs.  People are thinking of taking Geno Smith with the #9 pick in this years draft. Somebody is going to take him in the first round, maybe even top 10.   Chris Turner... People were thinking 7th round pick. And he wasn't even that.  Huge difference.

[JiFtheOracle]

 Point is DHB shouldn't have been taken so early.   Not by the Raiders.    Austin shouldn't be taken early. Not by the Jets.

 

Sounds better that way than the way you said it before.  lol

 

And I'll repeat...I agree, but if it came down to the 2, I'm going with the guy who will make a difference.  

[pedro55]

Sounds better that way than the way you said it before.  lol

 

And I'll repeat...I agree, but if it came down to the 2, I'm going with the guy who will make a difference.  

 

  I think long term a guy like Austin could be a threat. He could be a difference maker.  

The worry with the Jets is by the time he becomes that, he winds up like DHB.  And that's a guy who is a difference maker on some other team.   

I mean Larry Fitzgerald had a couple lucky seasons with Kurt Warner, other than that he's one of the best WR on a team without a QB.

Hell, Calvin Williams is breaking all these records in Detroit  and the Lions are still 4-12.     A lot of players can be threats. Can be great.  

To me difference makers are guys who make the team great.    Most WRs seem to be replaceable.   Steelers let the MVP of a super bowl go and they wound up in another super bowl.   Vikings dumped Moss.  TO was around the league a thousand different ways.  Austin Miles is great but the Cowboys still stink.

 

I would rather have a guy who can get you 10-15 sacks per year who can change the pass rush and defense on his own, compared to a guy who has to depend on having a good OL and QB.

[SenorGato]

I like Cooper over Warmack

 

Didn't find the other one so just quoted this - don't think Cooper can play T as a pro. He has the athleticism, but he's short.

 

That said,....Beeeeeeaaaaasssst. 

 

I actually like Austin. I would have ignored him if he wasn't such a topic here, but sold. 

[T0mShane]

Austin had Geno Smith as QB. DHB is second in Maryland's history for receiving yards. He was the MVP of Maryland's offense.

I would say Geno Smith was the MVP of WV last year, not Austin.

The story is that Al Davis walked into the Raiders' personnel department before the 09 draft, looked at their board, and re-arranged it in order of 40 times. No one in the room wanted DHB but Al, and he wouldn't hear any arguments otherwise.

[JiFtheOracle]

  I think long term a guy like Austin could be a threat. He could be a difference maker.  

The worry with the Jets is by the time he becomes that, he winds up like DHB.  And that's a guy who is a difference maker on some other team.   

I mean Larry Fitzgerald had a couple lucky seasons with Kurt Warner, other than that he's one of the best WR on a team without a QB.

Hell, Calvin Williams is breaking all these records in Detroit  and the Lions are still 4-12.     A lot of players can be threats. Can be great.  

To me difference makers are guys who make the team great.    Most WRs seem to be replaceable.   Steelers let the MVP of a super bowl go and they wound up in another super bowl.   Vikings dumped Moss.  TO was around the league a thousand different ways.  Austin Miles is great but the Cowboys still stink.

 

I would rather have a guy who can get you 10-15 sacks per year who can change the pass rush and defense on his own, compared to a guy who has to depend on having a good OL and QB.

 

I'm confident Austin is going to have a very prosperous NFL career.  He's ridiculously talented.  The DHB comparison really isnt a good one.  He's on a totally different level than DHB skill wise. 

 

I too rather have the pass rusher than a WR or OL at #9.  No doubt.  But thats not the debate we're having.

 

And FTR - all those guys you've named have had an incredible impact on their teams.  I think you're diminishing their efforts.  Moss helped get the Vikings to the NFCC game.  Moss almost was part of an undefeated team on the best offense I've ever seen.  TO helped the Eagles get the SB.  The Steelers had weapons (Ward, Wallace, Miller) and could afford to lose Holmes but without his catch, they lose the SB to the Cards who just had an incredible game breaking play by Larry Fitz.

[bitonti]

See, I dont.  Warmack, Cooper, Warford.  Flip a coin who has a better career, IMO. 

 

Warford is one of those guys that the internetz says has upside and then he goes in rd 6. His balance stinks. He's not comparable to Cooper or Chance. 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

1.  Eric Fisher

2.  Chance Warmack

3.  Sharrif Floyd

4.  Tavon Austin

5.  Luke Joeckel

He made a point of emphasis that these are his top 5 to immediately contribute with the greatest impact ( as opposed to simply stating they are who he thinks will be the 5 best players )

 

 

My five impact players would have to be Star Lotulelei, Kenny Vaccaro, Matt Barkley, Auther Brown, Bjoern Werner.

[SenorGato]

I'm late, very late. The idea that DHB compares to Austin or vice versa is pretty laughable. 

 

 

 

Warford is one of those guys that the internetz says has upside and then he goes in rd 6. His balance stinks. He's not comparable to Cooper or Chance. 

 

 

 

Nobody gives Dallas Thomas any love or hugs THO. I don't disagree with this assessment of Warford, though I do think he'll find a career in the NFL anyway. Keep in mind Nicks fell because he was a meany, Evans fell because his school was small, Massie fell because he was raw...for whatever reason non-LT OL fall through the cracks pretty easy. 

[JiFtheOracle]

Warford is one of those guys that the internetz says has upside and then he goes in rd 6. His balance stinks. He's not comparable to Cooper or Chance. 

 

Disagree.  Flip a coin. 

[pedro55]

I'm confident Austin is going to have a very prosperous NFL career.  He's ridiculously talented.  The DHB comparison really isnt a good one.  He's on a totally different level than DHB skill wise. 

 

I too rather have the pass rusher than a WR or OL at #9.  No doubt.  But thats not the debate we're having.

 

And FTR - all those guys you've named have had an incredible impact on their teams.  I think you're diminishing their efforts.  Moss helped get the Vikings to the NFCC game.  Moss almost was part of an undefeated team on the best offense I've ever seen.  TO helped the Eagles get the SB.  The Steelers had weapons (Ward, Wallace, Miller) and could afford to lose Holmes but without his catch, they lose the SB to the Cards who just had an incredible game breaking play by Larry Fitz.

 

  No doubt great WR to make a difference on a team.  But great WR also wind up on teams like the Cardinals and Lions too.  

I'm not saying DHB and Austin are going to have similar careers.   I'm saying if Austin is drafted early he could wind up just being like DHB.  And that's on a bad team who has no QB.  And a young WR on a bad team with no QB kind of winds up lost.  Or they bail as soon as they get a chance.  

[sirlancemehlot]

There's a reason a guard hasn't been taken as high as #9 in 28 years. Guards are not impact players.

but having a bad guard makes a huge impact on players. QB's and running backs mostly.

Truth is, Guards are very important.  The role of the G has changed.  The lard-ass road-graders that just pushed guys out of the way went the way of the Dodo a decade ago.  Offensive schemes, blocking schemes, alternate offenses (wildcat, etc), superior inside DL pass rushers, more complex blitzing schemes...these have all evolved to a point that makes guards and centers far more important, which gives them a much bigger impact come gameday.  "Guards aren't worth #9" is old-school thinking.  Just using Faneca as an example, he would be worth every bit of a #9 pick.  All these years later we haven't replaced him.  And we were a much more efficent offense, particularly in rushing, when Faneca came to town.  Warmack and Cooper are supposedly two of the best Guards prospects in a decade.  They are worth #9.   

[T0mShane]

No doubt great WR to make a difference on a team. But great WR also wind up on teams like the Cardinals and Lions too.

I'm not saying DHB and Austin are going to have similar careers. I'm saying if Austin is drafted early he could wind up just being like DHB. And that's on a bad team who has no QB. And a young WR on a bad team with no QB kind of winds up lost. Or they bail as soon as they get a chance.

If the Jets are a bad team with no QB two years from now, it doesn't really matter who we draft this year.

[LAD_Brooklyn]

Warford is one of those guys that the internetz says has upside and then he goes in rd 6. His balance stinks. He's not comparable to Cooper or Chance. 

 

Warford is a beast. He got consideration from the SEC coaches as the best lineman overall in the SEC. He's been All SEC 1st team twice. These isn't any internet hype as he is very deserving of the recognition he's receiving. Jeremiah (sp) of the NFL network likes what he brings and has him mock to us in the second. He's great good in the run game and pass protection. His main problem sort of like Warmack or any other big guy in pulling and hitting defenders in space. Like his fight against the Florida and Georgia DTs.

 

[T0mShane]

but having a bad guard makes a huge impact on players. QB's and running backs mostly.

Truth is, Guards are very important. The role of the G has changed. The lard-ass road-graders that just pushed guys out of the way went the way of the Dodo a decade ago. Offensive schemes, blocking schemes, alternate offenses (wildcat, etc), superior inside DL pass rushers, more complex blitzing schemes...these have all evolved to a point that makes guards and centers far more important, which gives them a much bigger impact come gameday. "Guards aren't worth #9" is old-school thinking. Just using Faneca as an example, he would be worth every bit of a #9 pick. All these years later we haven't replaced him. And we were a much more efficent offense, particularly in rushing, when Faneca came to town. Warmack and Cooper are supposedly two of the best Guards prospects in a decade. They are worth #9.

Jahri Evans is the best guard playing in the game today, and possibly this decade. He was a 4th rounder. It's a position that it frequently filled by lower round picks. Nobody goes into a game thinking "Whoa, that team has a huge mismatch at the guard slot." It's important to have good ones, and nice to have great ones, but they're not swinging the balance into any one team's favor either way.

[bitonti]

My five impact players would have to be Star Lotulelei, Kenny Vaccaro, Matt Barkley, Auther Brown, Bjoern Werner.

 

I agree with 3 or 4 of those names but I'm scared of Matt Barkley. Because of Sanchez. And Leinart (the last big name who chose not to declare and returned for senior year).

 

He's gonna be a backup from all accounts and that's ok. But USC is on the list of places not to draft QB's from. 

[bitonti]

Jahri Evans is the best guard playing in the game today, and possibly this decade. He was a 4th rounder.  

 

Iupati is better than everyone. And all this anecdotal evidence doesn't get us very far. I can tell you the story of Tom Brady or Arian Foster and none of it changes the draft prospects this year. From all accounts it's an OL-heavy year. Joeckel, Fisher and probably Chance is the next best OLman. The Jets wish there were tons of QB's but the draft is what it is and needs don't change the quality of the prospects. 

[bitonti]

Warford is a beast. He got consideration from the SEC coaches as the best lineman overall in the SEC. He's been All SEC 1st team twice. These isn't any internet hype as he is very deserving of the recognition he's receiving. Jeremiah (sp) of the NFL network likes what he brings and has him mock to us in the second. He's great good in the run game and pass protection. His main problem sort of like Warmack or any other big guy in pulling and hitting defenders in space. Like his fight against the Florida and Georgia DTs.

 

 

 

the first play of that youtube is a strong case for Sharrif Floyd in the top 5 btw. He swims Warford gets 2 yards upfield, then embarks on a journey (slams into Warford again) and chases down the RB running a screen. I know it's a negative play for the Florida defense but wow. 

 

as for Larry Warford he can be exposed in pass pro. his feet aren't great. He ran like a 5.6 and I know the 40s don't matter for guards but he's just not a plus athlete. He's gonna play in the league and whatever but not on the same level as Chance or Cooper. Justin Pugh is the 3rd best guard IMO.  I wouldn't cry if the Jets drafted Warford but please not in rd 2. 

[sirlancemehlot]

Jahri Evans is the best guard playing in the game today, and possibly this decade. He was a 4th rounder. It's a position that it frequently filled by lower round picks. Nobody goes into a game thinking "Whoa, that team has a huge mismatch at the guard slot." It's important to have good ones, and nice to have great ones, but they're not swinging the balance into any one team's favor either way.

Yeah, i agree with the "impact" part.  But who is really taking over games outside of franchise QB's?  If your weakness is oline and you have a best-in-a-decade olineman available, (and you've spent your last two first rounders on pass rushers), doesn't it make sense to grab a guy who instantly upgrades your rushing and passing attack--and will likely do so for the next 8-12 years? 

[T0mShane]

Yeah, i agree with the "impact" part. But who is really taking over games outside of franchise QB's? If your weakness is oline and you have a best-in-a-decade olineman available, (and you've spent your last two first rounders on pass rushers), doesn't it make sense to grab a guy who instantly upgrades your rushing and passing attack--and will likely do so for the next 8-12 years?

Come on now

[sirlancemehlot]

Come on now

No you come on now.

[sirlancemehlot]

I'm not used to disagreeing with Tom.  Bring back Tannenbaum.

[T0mShane]

Iupati is better than everyone. And all this anecdotal evidence doesn't get us very far. I can tell you the story of Tom Brady or Arian Foster and none of it changes the draft prospects this year. From all accounts it's an OL-heavy year. Joeckel, Fisher and probably Chance is the next best OLman. The Jets wish there were tons of QB's but the draft is what it is and needs don't change the quality of the prospects.

Tom Brady and Arian Foster are aberrations. All the 3rd, 4th, 5th round guards who start and compete at high levels in the league are commonplace.

[bitonti]

 

Nobody gives Dallas Thomas any love or hugs THO.  

 

 Dallas tore his labrum and he hasn't worked out at all. without the injury, could have sneaking into the first 3 rounds and he could probably play OT in the league.  But yeah he could end up like Warford falling thru the cracks

[bitonti]

 All the 3rd, 4th, 5th round guards who start and compete at high levels in the league are commonplace.

 

Or 6th rounders like Matt Slauson. All true but if you grade all these guys out and the guard is better than the receiver, and draft day comes, why not stick to your board?  Does any1 really believe Tavon Austin be a higher grade than Chance Warmack?  

 

Draft is about positional scarcity but it's also about helping the team. 

[Larz]

austin is the pick

 

do it idzy

[T0mShane]

Or 6th rounders like Matt Slauson. All true but if you grade all these guys out and the guard is better than the receiver, and draft day comes, why not stick to your board? Does any1 really believe Tavon Austin be a higher grade than Chance Warmack?

Draft is about positional scarcity but it's also about helping the team.

If both Warmack and Austin were to reach their potential as players, Austin is by far the better choice simply by virtue of the position he plays. That's what you gamble on at 9, IMO.

[#27TheDominator]

the first play of that youtube is a strong case for Sharrif Floyd in the top 5 btw. He swims Warford gets 2 yards upfield, then embarks on a journey (slams into Warford again) and chases down the RB running a screen. I know it's a negative play for the Florida defense but wow. 

 

 

Oh c'mon.  Warford lets him go because it's a screen pass and he ends up on the ground.  It's a great effort play, chasing the back down and not giving up, but he didn't swim sh*t or get upfield due to any talent.  He got passed off because it was a screen. 

[pedro55]

Yeah, i agree with the "impact" part.  But who is really taking over games outside of franchise QB's?  If your weakness is oline and you have a best-in-a-decade olineman available, (and you've spent your last two first rounders on pass rushers), doesn't it make sense to grab a guy who instantly upgrades your rushing and passing attack--and will likely do so for the next 8-12 years? 

 

  Being the Jets drafted two starting OL who became pro bowlers (4th pick,  29th pick)  in 2006 and the Jets never won a division and  have made the playoffs only 3 times (2006, 2009, 2010) since and missed the playoffs 4 of those years ( 2007, 2008, 2011, 2012) kind of tells you drafting those guys that early doesn't make you a winner.   And those 2009, 2010 teams had a top defense.    

And considering the Jets offense hasn't been that good ever over the past how many years tells you drafting OL in the top 10 or first round doesn't guarantee you anything. And the Jets drafted one guy who became a pro bowl center and another guy who has had  a decent career so far. 

 

 THe Jets also drafted an OL in the 2nd round in 2011 that hasn't been much of anything.  The Problem the Jets have had is trading away draft picks and never having any depth.   Great they draft some OL with #9, now what?

[T0mShane]

Being the Jets drafted two starting OL who became pro bowlers (4th pick, 29th pick) in 2006 and the Jets never won a division and have made the playoffs only 3 times (2006, 2009, 2010) since and missed the playoffs 4 of those years ( 2007, 2008, 2011, 2012) kind of tells you drafting those guys that early doesn't make you a winner. And those 2009, 2010 teams had a top defense.

And considering the Jets offense hasn't been that good ever over the past how many years tells you drafting OL in the top 10 or first round doesn't guarantee you anything. And the Jets drafted one guy who became a pro bowl center and another guy who has had a decent career so far.

THe Jets also drafted an OL in the 2nd round in 2011 that hasn't been much of anything. The Problem the Jets have had is trading away draft picks and never having any depth. Great they draft some OL with #9, now what?

BOOM

[bitonti]

Oh c'mon.  Warford lets him go because it's a screen pass and he ends up on the ground.  It's a great effort play, chasing the back down and not giving up, but he didn't swim sh*t or get upfield due to any talent.  He got passed off because it was a screen. 

 

If the play ended with Floyd at the LOS i'd agree with you but from end to end it's a huge effort and remarkable that a 300 pound DT caught  a tailback. 

 

LAD I hope you see this message I'm starting to come around on Warford but 2 still seems high. Late 3 on grit factor? top 100 edge? I do see a huge class difference between Chance and Larry. There's no compelling reason to draft a guard in any round so Chance has to be really special to be a top 20 lock. 

[pedro55]

If both Warmack and Austin were to reach their potential as players, Austin is by far the better choice simply by virtue of the position he plays. That's what you gamble on at 9, IMO.

 

 I do agree that if both players wind up being pro bowlers,  Austin is by far more of an impact player while Warmack could be like a Dbrick.. Pro bowler some years, decent player, but with or without the guy the Jets aren't much different.