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Mike Mayock final mock gives the Jets...(warning: you'll discharge gametes)

T0mShane

By T0mShane
in NY Jets Forum

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SenorGato

SenorGato

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Because he's a bigger, better athlete and he can do other things besides rush the passer. 

 

Rushing the passer is by far the most valuable thing any one of these DE/OLB prospects can bring. Jordan only has two more sacks in college without anywhere near the pressures or PDs Mingo picked up. 

 

He's bigger in the sense that he's taller as he's another one who has trouble putting on weight. Mingo went from 230 in 2011 to 240 in 2012 and still was the top DE/OLB prospect in the 40, 3-cone, vertical, and broad jump. Those 4 happen to be the combine exercises that correlate best to future pass rusher success. I just don't see it. 

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CrazyCarl40

CrazyCarl40

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Quick: Name the premium starting DE or DE/OLBs in the league praised for their ability in coverage.

Why does Mingo have more PDs in college? 11 to 2 according to cfbstats.

Probably balls batted at the line of scrimmage. And in Rex Ryan's defense you need to be able to do both. All I need to know is this: Jordan hurt at combine, does all he can. Mingo completely healthy, doesn't bench.

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unbanmadmike1

unbanmadmike1

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Rushing the passer is by far the most valuable thing any one of these DE/OLB prospects can bring. Jordan only has two more sacks in college without anywhere near the pressures or PDs Mingo picked up. 

 

He's bigger in the sense that he's taller as he's another one who has trouble putting on weight. Mingo went from 230 in 2011 to 240 in 2012 and still was the top DE/OLB prospect in the 40, 3-cone, vertical, and broad jump. Those 4 happen to be the combine exercises that correlate best to future pass rusher success. I just don't see it. 

They will both need to put on weight when they get to the NFL. If Jordan can put on 20 pounds he'll be aldon smith. Mingo doesn't have that upside. 

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JFtoLong

JFtoLong

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It really is amazing. TEs change game. They get you first downs. They bail out your QB. They make it harder to blitz. They help your backs. They influence safety coverage. Yet, people still act like they're right tackles.

Yup, right on the money.

The reality is that Most Jets fans have two common traits:

1) passionate about the jets

2) don't know sh*t about football

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SenorGato

SenorGato

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They will both need to put on weight when they get to the NFL. If Jordan can put on 20 pounds he'll be aldon smith. Mingo doesn't have that upside. 

 

 

 
Lolwut? If there's an Aldon Smith between them there are more numbers saying it's Mingo and not Jordan. Smith, like Mingo, also put up other plays on the ball or QB to go with his sacks. 7 PDs in 2 seasons to go with a couple FFs, pressures, and so on. Mingo dominates the group in pressures (27), has the most PDs, is only two sacks behind Jordan, and put up more explosive combine numbers. 
 
Ah, and he is not better than Mingo against the run. That does not show on the game tape! 
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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

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I could deal. Jordan still scares me a bit but ok. I get it. I really think Eifert is the real deal.

 

To me, Jordan has a much higher bust potential than mingo, I can't help but think of Julian Peterson.  Now, peterson was a fine player, but if you want someone to get after the QB, I just don't see it in him.  

 

Question: Why is Jordan better than Mingo again? 

 

 

Because the draftniks tell them he is.  Literally the only reason people don't like him is this so called lack of strength, however they probably never once watched him actually play in college and saw him routinely take on SEC tackles and guards and consistently stick his nose wherever the ball is. They worry about his "work-ethic" simply because he didn't bench, but ignore the fact that he put on 15+ lbs of good weight since the end of the season as he played the year at 230 lbs.  At first, I was hesitant to let my love of the kid show, as I didn't want to be called an LSU homer, but he's literally the perfect player in my mind: great frame, insane athlete with great measurables, fantastic motor, does not shy from contact, gives a good interview, squeaky-clean on and off-field character and actually has production in a NFL-style defense (Chavis gave him a lot of responsibility) in the best conference in football.

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unbanmadmike1

unbanmadmike1

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Lolwut? If there's an Aldon Smith between them there are more numbers saying it's Mingo and not Jordan. Smith, like Mingo, also put up other plays on the ball or QB to go with his sacks. 7 PDs in 2 seasons to go with a couple FFs, pressures, and so on. Mingo dominates the group in pressures (27), has the most PDs, is only two sacks behind Jordan, and put up more explosive combine numbers. 
 
Ah, and he is not better than Mingo against the run. That does not show on the game tape! 

There is a reason Jordan is going to go in the top 5 and Mingo is going to drop if the Jets don't reach for him. Your view isn't shared by many. Mingo is a straight out liability against the pass and teams will run at him on 1st and 2nd down. 

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SenorGato

SenorGato

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Probably balls batted at the line of scrimmage. And in Rex Ryan's defense you need to be able to do both. All I need to know is this: Jordan hurt at combine, does all he can. Mingo completely healthy, doesn't bench.

 

Bold: Rushing the passer is more important. Terrell Suggs was not drafted because he can cover. Same for Merriman, Ware, Hali, Orakpo, Kerrigan, etc...

 

Wouldn't coverage expert and pass rushing expert Dion Jordan be able to put up some PDs anyway? What's his excuse? 

 

I see that as Mingo being smart, he dominated the ones pass rushers should dominate, and Jordan doing what he has to do to make it into the top 10. I think Jordan is one of those guys the internet is higher on than teams. 

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SenorGato

SenorGato

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There is a reason Jordan is going to go in the top 5 and Mingo is going to drop if the Jets don't reach for him. Your view isn't shared by many. Mingo is a straight out liability against the pass and teams will run at him on 1st and 2nd down. 

 

Lol stop already. 

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dbatesman

dbatesman

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Question: Why is Jordan better than Mingo again? 

 

+1

 

Rushing the passer is by far the most valuable thing any one of these DE/OLB prospects can bring. Jordan only has two more sacks in college without anywhere near the pressures or PDs Mingo picked up. 

 

He's bigger in the sense that he's taller as he's another one who has trouble putting on weight. Mingo went from 230 in 2011 to 240 in 2012 and still was the top DE/OLB prospect in the 40, 3-cone, vertical, and broad jump. Those 4 happen to be the combine exercises that correlate best to future pass rusher success. I just don't see it. 

 

+1000

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SenorGato

SenorGato

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Suggs can't cover but he is great against the run. Mingo might not even be able to play on 1st and 2nd down early in his career. 

 

The 240 pound Jordan coming off of labrum surgery can? Dammit unbanmadmike...

 

Suggs started out as a 3rd down pass rusher, earning time through production at the kind of pace a top 10 pick should make. Mingo has that kind of upside as a pass rusher. 

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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

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Because he's a bigger, better athlete and he can do other things besides rush the passer. He's awesome in coverage and better than Mingo vs the run. 

 

Not to poke the bear, but how many Oregon games did you even watch the last couple years?  While Jordan is a phenomenal athlete, probably the second best in this class, Mingo trumps him in the 40, 10 yard split, vertical, broad jump and 3-cone drill.  I'm not sure where this idea that Mingo is poor against the run as his main responsibility was to take less aggressive lines his senior year in order to maintain contain.  He routinely took on blockers and stuck his nose in every play while weighing only 230 lbs, 15 lbs less than he weighs now.  Jordan has every bit of upside as Mingo and the same risk. I don't know how you can like Jordan and not Mingo, when your arguments work for both.

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ylekram

ylekram

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There is a reason Jordan is going to go in the top 5 and Mingo is going to drop if the Jets don't reach for him. Your view isn't shared by many. Mingo is a straight out liability against the pass and teams will run at him on 1st and 2nd down. 

i think mingo is better against the run than jordan. fwiw

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CrazyCarl40

CrazyCarl40

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Posted

Bold: Rushing the passer is more important. Terrell Suggs was not drafted because he can cover. Same for Merriman, Ware, Hali, Orakpo, Kerrigan, etc...

Wouldn't coverage expert and pass rushing expert Dion Jordan be able to put up some PDs anyway? What's his excuse?

I see that as Mingo being smart, he dominated the ones pass rushers should dominate, and Jordan doing what he has to do to make it into the top 10. I think Jordan is one of those guys the internet is higher on than teams.

Maybe Jordan was so good in coverage that they never threw his way. Revis had less interceptions than a lot of corners. Guess that means he isn't as good as them.

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SenorGato

SenorGato

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Maybe Jordan was so good in coverage that they never threw his way. Revis had less interceptions than a lot of corners. Guess that means he isn't as good as them.

 

You can't be serious. Ban this troll for trolling. 

 

Revis had better numbers in other areas than every other corner. He got his turnovers despite less opportunities. His INTs went for yards. When you did complete a pass against him it wasn't for a TD, there was no YAC, and other minor things like that. He is someone you can actually prove through numbers that no one threw at him because he was insane good in coverage. There is no way Jordan is that good in coverage. 

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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

Posted
Posted

 

Anyone who wants Mingo should watch this video and see him get pushed around vs good OL and be useless vs the run. 

 

I've watched every snap the kid has taken in his collegiate career, same goes for Montgomery, Reid, Minter and in the past PP, Dorsey etc. and I can tell you that just because he may have gotten beaten by double teams with guys who outweigh him by 70+ lbs, doesn't mean he's poor against the run.  Watch him use his long arms and leverage to shed the blocks and make the tackle.  Watch him make countless numbers of plays on backside pursuit and just a great motor.  

 

These knocks on having a difficult time disengaging blockers and getting caught up in a wash are the same things you heard about Clay Matthews, Demarcus ware  and most recently Bruce Irvin.  Even if all these were true, you do not use a top 10 draft pick on someone to set the edge or cover TEs, that's how you wind up with Calvin Pace and Bryan Thomas as your OLBs.

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unbanmadmike1

unbanmadmike1

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I've watched every snap the kid has taken in his collegiate career, same goes for Montgomery, Reid, Minter and in the past PP, Dorsey etc. and I can tell you that just because he may have gotten beaten by double teams with guys who outweigh him by 70+ lbs, doesn't mean he's poor against the run.  Watch him use his long arms and leverage to shed the blocks and make the tackle.  Watch him make countless numbers of plays on backside pursuit and just a great motor.  

 

These knocks on having a difficult time disengaging blockers and getting caught up in a wash are the same things you heard about Clay Matthews, Demarcus ware  and most recently Bruce Irvin.  Even if all these were true, you do not use a top 10 draft pick on someone to set the edge or cover TEs, that's how you wind up with Calvin Pace and Bryan Thomas as your OLBs.

You're talking about jordan right? In that video Mingo is not doubled at all and is relatively invisible. 

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HessStation

HessStation

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Posted

This is laughable man. 

 

It's actually not even close. Oregon actually had to scheme Jordan into the hybrid to protect him vs. the run. This isn't even up for debate.

 

Congrats...Jordan is more experienced and better in coverage. Even though he has zero college ints fwiw. But that's about all you got.

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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

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This is laughable man. 

 

How is this laughable? Jordan was so banged up this year that he could barely shed a block to save his life, not to mention he was asked to be in coverage more often than set the edge.  Regardless, you do not waste a top ten freaking draft pick on someone because he's better against the run. Are you telling me you'd rather have Courtney Upshaw than Bruce Irvin, because the former is one of the best OLBs against the run??

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unbanmadmike1

unbanmadmike1

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It's actually not even close. Oregon actually had to scheme Jordan into the hybrid to protect him vs. the run. This isn't even up for debate.

 

Congrats...Jordan is more experienced and better in coverage. Even though he has zero college ints fwiw. But that's about all you got.

If you're dumb enough to judge how good a OLB is in coverage by his INT's you're probably too far gone into stupidville. 

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jetsjetsjetss

jetsjetsjetss

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Posted

Read the thread nub fisher. 

 

tried to your arguing about pass defense and silly nonsense

 

im just trying to figure out about these guys. From what i heard people are scared of mingo but everyone has the jets taking him. and everyone has jordan going ahead of him

 

do you think mingos gonna end up being a feard pass rusher double digits in sacks maybe?

 

tbh im not loving either of the two but i just really want star

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