Quinton Coples: DE/OLB?

[SouthernJet]

great move. .fits his skill set to a tee. .was at his most dangerous in college when they let him loose on outside..

[JiFtheOracle]

How many of the NFL's top 3-4 OLBers played OLB in college?

 

Coples weighed 278 at his pro day.  Ryan Kerrigan at 274 (as well as being 3" shorter than Coples and no faster).  Both played on the DL in college.  (BTW, from ESPN on 2/28/2011:  "Purdue DE Ryan Kerrigan did not perform as well as hoped during the week of the Senior Bowl, when he lined up at outside linebacker, and he doesn't have elite athletic ability.")  He went to the pro bowl at OLB as an alternate for Aldon Smith 3 months ago, in his 2nd season.  

 

Adalius Thomas played for years in the 270-280 lb range at only 6'2" tall - physically he looks like a butterball compared to Coples - and didn't have the genetic gifts Coples was born with.  Guy was a beast at LB (until NE picked him up, ha ha ha) and could play anywhere from DT to ILB.  (He was also a TE and a basketball player).  Some guys are just more versatile than others.

 

That doesn't mean this transition will go as well for someone else; it means don't pigeon-hole a guy's role based on numbers or timed drills.  Ryan also worked Coples out at LB a little before we drafted him.  He'll try Coples out there some during this spring/summer.  He can either make the transition fully, somewhat, or he can't at all.  I haven't seen Ryan do a lot of square peg round hole stupidity with his personnel on defense, and he's still widely considered to be one of the game's best defensive coaches, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.  If he can't make the transition, Rex isn't going to risk lowering his defense's precious ranking in what might very well be his last year here.  

 

Which brings us to that other thing: while I want us to win games, reality must also set in that we are not winning a SB this year; it's a damn good year to experiment a little.

 

When it comes down to it, its not even an experiment.  Rex worked him out as an OLB.  He knows what he can do.  He's not going to go out there and have him cover a slot WR or even a TE for that matter.  He'll be going after the QB when he's playing OLB and thats exactly what he was brought in to do.

 

At the end of day, you put your best players on the field.  Its a coaches job to figure that part out.  I've got a ton of confidence that Rex Ryan knows a lot better than Smashmouth on how to use his players.  

[Sperm Edwards]

When it comes down to it, its not even an experiment.  Rex worked him out as an OLB.  He knows what he can do.  He's not going to go out there and have him cover a slot WR or even a TE for that matter.  He'll be going after the QB when he's playing OLB and thats exactly what he was brought in to do.

 

At the end of day, you put your best players on the field.  Its a coaches job to figure that part out.  I've got a ton of confidence that Rex Ryan knows a lot better than Smashmouth on how to use his players.  

 

C'mon, it is an experiment.  A short pre-draft workout doesn't mean he can play in live action there (and play well enough to be an asset, and also be more useful than he'd be on the DL). 

 

If Rex is ok with it then I am ok with it also. For whatever shortcomings he has in other areas, this is absolutely Rex's thing.  As much as he is a playcalling coordinator on that side of the ball, he's also a defensive coach first and foremost who teaches technique.  

 

But as of today, it is absolutely an experiment.

[JiFtheOracle]

C'mon, it is an experiment.  A short pre-draft workout doesn't mean he can play in live action there (and play well enough to be an asset, and also be more useful than he'd be on the DL). 

 

If Rex is ok with it then I am ok with it also. For whatever shortcomings he has in other areas, this is absolutely Rex's thing.  As much as he is a playcalling coordinator on that side of the ball, he's also a defensive coach first and foremost who teaches technique.  

 

But as of today, it is absolutely an experiment.

 

If he was playing OLB, full time, expecting to fill every aspect of the position, I'd agree.  But just playing as the rush OLB on passing situations, I dont consider that an experiment...and from what I've read, thats the plan with him.  Not him playing OLB on every down, just pin the ears and go.  I dont see how thats some type of a major adjustment. 

[Sperm Edwards]

If he was playing OLB, full time, expecting to fill every aspect of the position, I'd agree.  But just playing as the rush OLB on passing situations, I dont consider that an experiment...and from what I've read, thats the plan with him.  Not him playing OLB on every down, just pin the ears and go.  I dont see how thats some type of a major adjustment. 

 

Whoa, Rex hasn't announced how and when he'd be used.  All he said is he was going to use (or try to use) Coples at OLB.  The rest of it is inferences you are making up. 

 

I guarantee you if he can play there full time as well as Adalius Thomas did for him, Rex is keeping Coples there for the most part.

 

If he is going to try playing someone at a position he's never played before, that is absolutely an experiment.  Now he is making a judgment that Coples can do it based on his experience with other players, and Coples's skill set, but until it's shown to be successful it is an experiment.

 

Herm experimented with Ellis at DT and it was a massive failure despite 3-4 DE to 4-3 DT, for a guy with Ellis's build, is a lot less of an experiment than moving a 280-290-lb man to OLB on the strong side.  This year we're going to face some pretty good TEs in NE, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, Cincy, and more.  He's going to have to do a little more than you're making the job out to be.

 

If he's just pinning his ears back to rush the passer on every single down he's lined up out there then it makes no sense to not just put him on the line at DE.  The very point of having him out there - frankly the whole point of having pass rushing OLBers at all - is that he does NOT always simply rush the passer; and sometimes the pressure is going to come from the other side (or up the middle or wherever) and you win the battle sometimes with an element of surprise (or certainly not be so predictable).

 

He's going to have to do a lot more than you're suggesting, which is why this is not some sure thing, and why it is an experiment.

[jack48]

Brandon Moore being converted to offensive guard was pretty damned good.  I get the skepticism, but I'd wait to hear from Rex and the staff before people start calling for heads.  It could be as simple as he'll kick out on certain downs to get Sheldon on the field as opposed to him taking over for Pace as an OLB in the base formation.  

 

Yup. And Rex, media buffoon though he may be, knows defense and wants his defense to be top notch.  So be must think they are better off with him there than where he was.  PLus, it adds versatility, which can be hard on opposing QBs.  I bow to his expertise on the matter.

[JiFtheOracle]

Whoa, Rex hasn't announced how and when he'd be used.  All he said is he was going to use (or try to use) Coples at OLB.  The rest of it is inferences you are making up. 

 

I guarantee you if he can play there full time as well as Adalius Thomas did for him, Rex is keeping Coples there for the most part.

 

If he is going to try playing someone at a position he's never played before, that is absolutely an experiment.  Now he is making a judgment that Coples can do it based on his experience with other players, and Coples's skill set, but until it's shown to be successful it is an experiment.

 

Herm experimented with Ellis at DT and it was a massive failure despite 3-4 DE to 4-3 DT, for a guy with Ellis's build, is a lot less of an experiment than moving a 280-290-lb man to OLB on the strong side.  This year we're going to face some pretty good TEs in NE, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, Cincy, and more.  He's going to have to do a little more than you're making the job out to be.

 

If he's just pinning his ears back to rush the passer on every single down he's lined up out there then it makes no sense to not just put him on the line at DE.  The very point of having him out there - frankly the whole point of having pass rushing OLBers at all - is that he does NOT always simply rush the passer; and sometimes the pressure is going to come from the other side (or up the middle or wherever) and you win the battle sometimes with an element of surprise (or certainly not be so predictable).

 

He's going to have to do a lot more than you're suggesting, which is why this is not some sure thing, and why it is an experiment.

 

Rex said:

 

“I see Quinton as a guy that can maybe be more of an edge presence than he was that first year,” Ryan said then, “but having him go through that, putting him over a guard, putting him over tackles, even over centers, I think it’s good because when you put him over tight ends, it’s a lot easier to knock those guys back and you have a lot of confidence when you face those double-teams. That was kind of what we did with him, but I’m expecting big things from him. Like I said, I think he’s just now scratching the surface.”

 

Obviously it isnt the entire "plan" but it sure sounds like they are thinking about using him to attack rather than cover or play the Thomas role, as you've referenced.  Maybe I'm looking to much into one little comment but thats all we have to go on.  You're speculating just as much as I am.

[jack48]

You keep saying he excelled on the interior of the DL. No, he didn't. In college he played his best at DT. Last year he was mostly a DE for the Jets in either front - and I wouldn't say he excelled either. He did improve as the year went on.

I was also unaware of our relationship BUT now that I think about it I do disagree with you often. Sorry that leaves you offended or whatever.

Oh and Ryan ran Coples through LB drills at his pro day and had nothing but good things. This idea being newly published does not mean its new to the Jets. Many DE/OLBs weren't really given OLB roles as rookies.

Coples is really going to discourage teams from trying to turn the corner on his side.  If he has the agility a LB needs.

[flgreen]

I don’t know if it would be an experiment or not, but when the talk of Coples started, around the time of the combine, I read an article saying that Coples had taken 27 snaps over the last 3 games of last season off the edge standing up, and had performed better then when he had his hand in the dirt.

Of course how well he performed is the writers opinion, but I would consider that the experiment.  I guess you could say the experiment continues

[Smashmouth]

How many of the NFL's top 3-4 OLBers played OLB in college?

 

Coples weighed 278 at his pro day.  Ryan Kerrigan at 274 (as well as being 3" shorter than Coples and no faster).  Both played on the DL in college.  (BTW, from ESPN on 2/28/2011:  "Purdue DE Ryan Kerrigan did not perform as well as hoped during the week of the Senior Bowl, when he lined up at outside linebacker, and he doesn't have elite athletic ability.")  He went to the pro bowl at OLB as an alternate for Aldon Smith 3 months ago, in his 2nd season.  

 

Adalius Thomas played for years in the 270-280 lb range at only 6'2" tall - physically he looks like a butterball compared to Coples - and didn't have the genetic gifts Coples was born with.  Guy was a beast at LB (until NE picked him up, ha ha ha) and could play anywhere from DT to ILB.  (He was also a TE and a basketball player).  Some guys are just more versatile than others.

 

That doesn't mean this transition will go as well for someone else; it means don't pigeon-hole a guy's role based on numbers or timed drills.  Ryan also worked Coples out at LB a little before we drafted him.  He'll try Coples out there some during this spring/summer.  He can either make the transition fully, somewhat, or he can't at all.  I haven't seen Ryan do a lot of square peg round hole stupidity with his personnel on defense, and he's still widely considered to be one of the game's best defensive coaches, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.  If he can't make the transition, Rex isn't going to risk lowering his defense's precious ranking in what might very well be his last year here.  

 

Which brings us to that other thing: while I want us to win games, reality must also set in that we are not winning a SB this year; it's a damn good year to experiment a little.

 

 

When it comes down to it, its not even an experiment.  Rex worked him out as an OLB.  He knows what he can do.  He's not going to go out there and have him cover a slot WR or even a TE for that matter.  He'll be going after the QB when he's playing OLB and thats exactly what he was brought in to do.

 

At the end of day, you put your best players on the field.  Its a coaches job to figure that part out.  I've got a ton of confidence that Rex Ryan knows a lot better than Smashmouth on how to use his players.  

 

JIF lets get something straight Im not claiming to know more than anyone on the subject. My initial comment on the subject was the large amount of "project" we hear about on this team, Then I went on to say that projects rarely succeed in the NFL ....that does NOT MEAN they dont happen, it just means they are realatively rare when a player exceeds JAG level when asked to play an entirely new position. Everyone is fully aware how Coples will be used if put on the outside as an OLB/pass rusher ...Its obvious he wont be guarding TE's ..... Sperm made good points on the subject but the amount of players you can put in this category is limited.

 

Sure some College DE's can transition to LB from DE simply because they dont have the size and it works moch better in the 3-4 and the 4-3 where backers are asked to so much different things in the respective alignments.

 

Also when it comes to Rex nothing tells me the guy is this great judge of talent .... hes got a good scheme that works for him but I think at times with the personnell we have it comes Back tio bite him. I think going to a more traditional 4-3 would create more pressure since in a 3-4 we simply do not have the LB's to rush the passer and this much was evident the past 4 years . I think we have the guys to run a very effective front 4 and I mean run it throughout the game so the lineman can set up the guys on the other side of the ball with various moves.

 

Also from what I remember Coples got most of his sacks working on the DL on the inside I never once saw him beating someone with his speed on the outside and TBH I dont expect to see that this year either. This kid came into the league at 285 and his frame can handle much more weight. generally players tend to get bigger especially DL and OL as they mature and I can see Coples easily going past 300 pounds and playing inside next to Richardson and wreaking havoc up the middle which will certainly hurt pocket passers like Tom Brady. If LT's are asked to stop speedy Outside Linebackers what makes anyone think they cant handle Coples at much less speed for the 3 to 4 secs it takes to release a football ?

[Smashmouth]

Rex said:

 

“I see Quinton as a guy that can maybe be more of an edge presence than he was that first year,” Ryan said then, “but having him go through that, putting him over a guard, putting him over tackles, even over centers, I think it’s good because when you put him over tight ends, it’s a lot easier to knock those guys back and you have a lot of confidence when you face those double-teams. That was kind of what we did with him, but I’m expecting big things from him. Like I said, I think he’s just now scratching the surface.”

 

Obviously it isnt the entire "plan" but it sure sounds like they are thinking about using him to attack rather than cover or play the Thomas role, as you've referenced.  Maybe I'm looking to much into one little comment but thats all we have to go on.  You're speculating just as much as I am.

 

Name me a player Rex has not talked up ? Rex needs to just coach and shut his fat trap. Lets just telgraph to the entire league rather than use this idea as a tactic in game. Once again the guy is a loud mouth idiot .

[JiFtheOracle]

Name me a player Rex has not talked up ? Rex needs to just coach and shut his fat trap. Lets just telgraph to the entire league rather than use this idea as a tactic in game. Once again the guy is a loud mouth idiot .

 

Huh?  

[SouthernJet]

Lets not forget what Rex is thinking here. .He is thinking of putting Q in same position as LT played w/Giants. A VERY advantageous situation to get sacks..

 

The Giants basically played LT as a standup extra DE. he lined up ON line of scrimmage not a yard or two off it. He 90% of time played on opposite side of line of scrimmage where the Tight End lined up, aka, maximum ease getting to QB.

So basically, you standup on line of scrimmage with a DE or DT to your left, and all you have to beat is a Left Tackle or a man in motion..

When the offense used to put man in motion to help left tackle block LT, the Giants would then stunt and have LT circle around the go inside the Guard spot..

 

if the skillset is right, its a position one can become famous at

[Smashmouth]

Huh?  

 

you dont get that ? How many times have we seen Rex up at the podium talking up players on his team ?? He does it all the time and he is doing it now as well. Tell me you dont see Rex doing this at an alarming rate it happens in damn near every presser the guy gives

[SenorGato]

I dont get it. So when Ryan is saying they plan to try things with him all he is really doing is talking his player up?

[Smashmouth]

Lets not forget what Rex is thinking here. .He is thinking of putting Q in same position as LT played w/Giants. A VERY advantageous situation to get sacks..

 

The Giants basically played LT as a standup extra DE. he lined up ON line of scrimmage not a yard or two off it. He 90% of time played on opposite side of line of scrimmage where the Tight End lined up, aka, maximum ease getting to QB.

So basically, you standup on line of scrimmage with a DE or DT to your left, and all you have to beat is a Left Tackle or a man in motion..

When the offense used to put man in motion to help left tackle block LT, the Giants would then stunt and have LT circle around the go inside the Guard spot..

 

if the skillset is right, its a position one can become famous at

 

SJ Lets not even get into compareing the skill set of LT vs Coples ..... LT played LB period . he lined up on the outside and no one could stop him ...teams had to game plan for him alone sometimes triple teaming him. Coples does not posess those skills nor does he posess Taylors 4.45 speed.

 

I know your comparing the scenario and not the players but there is a reason players like LT succeed in this situation and guys weighing 280 do not. Wonder if Rex takes this experiment to the level of asking Coples to lose weight ? Because thats the only way he gains enough spped to be effective on the outside.

[Smashmouth]

I dont get it. So when Ryan is saying they plan to try things with him all he is really doing is talking his player up?

 

No JIF mentioned how Rex was talking up Coples at his pro day and my response to that comment was Rex talks up all his players for the most part. The guy talked up Aaron Maybin and Vernon Gholston for christs sake ...how quickly we forget

[SenorGato]

Coples ran anywhere from a 4.69 to 4.78 last offseason. These are fine for a 265 pound DE/OLB. His speed is fine.

[T0mShane]

Lets not forget what Rex is thinking here. .He is thinking of putting Q in same position as LT played w/Giants. A VERY advantageous situation to get sacks..

The Giants basically played LT as a standup extra DE. he lined up ON line of scrimmage not a yard or two off it. He 90% of time played on opposite side of line of scrimmage where the Tight End lined up, aka, maximum ease getting to QB.

So basically, you standup on line of scrimmage with a DE or DT to your left, and all you have to beat is a Left Tackle or a man in motion..

When the offense used to put man in motion to help left tackle block LT, the Giants would then stunt and have LT circle around the go inside the Guard spot..

if the skillset is right, its a position one can become famous at

Except LT ran a 4.5/40 and left tackles were all 275 pounds back then.

[flgreen]

Coples ran anywhere from a 4.69 to 4.78 last offseason. These are fine for a 265 pound DE/OLB. His speed is fine.

It's even better for a 290# DE/OLB, which is what Coples is. 

 

I really think Coples has the chance to be an outstanding player.  For him it's going to be about being in top shape, and working hard.  I think he got in Rex's dog house last year for not showing up to camp in football shape.   Rex worked him hard in preseason, but didn't give him many snaps went the eary season started.

 

As the season went on, he played better, and more.  Lets see if he learned his lesson and shows up ripped. 

[SouthernJet]

Except LT ran a 4.5/40 and left tackles were all 275 pounds back then.

yup, but this is rex's plan, trust me..OL are bigger faster now so maybe part of rex's thinking

[SouthernJet]

SJ Lets not even get into compareing the skill set of LT vs Coples ..... LT played LB period . he lined up on the outside and no one could stop him ...teams had to game plan for him alone sometimes triple teaming him. Coples does not posess those skills nor does he posess Taylors 4.45 speed.

 

I know your comparing the scenario and not the players but there is a reason players like LT succeed in this situation and guys weighing 280 do not. Wonder if Rex takes this experiment to the level of asking Coples to lose weight ? Because thats the only way he gains enough spped to be effective on the outside.

actually LT virtually never played LB

 

he lined up almost all the time on line of scrimmage and rarely handled pass coverage.. many in press back then used to write that LT didnt deserve allpro OLB, but he was more a allpro DE

[Smashmouth]

actually LT virtually never played LB

 

he lined up almost all the time on line of scrimmage and rarely handled pass coverage.. many in press back then used to write that LT didnt deserve allpro OLB, but he was more a allpro DE

 

SJ early in LT's career he played a traditional OLB and he was a great ALL around LB actully he was incredible including coverage he won DPOY as a rookie and in his second year ....when parcells/Belichick saw his pass rushing ability it was much more advantagous to rush him on every passing down disrupting the QB. But he was not a DE since he always lined up on the outside of Marshall. I see what your saying here but he played standing up straight well to the outside of the Tackle . He also did not exclusively start rushing the passer until 3 years into his carreer in 84 then went totally off the charts in 86 with 20 sacks.. I think he is easily the greatest defensive player in the history of the game. 

[SouthernJet]

SJ early in LT's career he played a traditional OLB and he was a great ALL around LB actully he was incredible including coverage he won DPOY as a rookie and in his second year ....when parcells/Belichick saw his pass rushing ability it was much more advantagous to rush him on every passing down disrupting the QB. But he was not a DE since he always lined up on the outside of Marshall. I see what your saying here but he played standing up straight well to the outside of the Tackle . He also did not exclusively start rushing the passer until 3 years into his carreer in 84 then went totally off the charts in 86 with 20 sacks.. I think he is easily the greatest defensive player in the history of the game. 

true, but I consider him more a DE hybrid than true OLB as he rarely did pass coverage and he would tell you that same thing over  a drink (or a Sweet Tea now), trust me, he would

[Smashmouth]

true, but I consider him more a DE hybrid than true OLB as he rarely did pass coverage and he would tell you that same thing over  a drink (or a Sweet Tea now), trust me, he would

 

or a few lines

 

I hear ya but when looking at Coples we will have to see if he has the kind of agility aganist live players, not cones with rex rooting him on

[JiFtheOracle]

you dont get that ? How many times have we seen Rex up at the podium talking up players on his team ?? He does it all the time and he is doing it now as well. Tell me you dont see Rex doing this at an alarming rate it happens in damn near every presser the guy gives

 

 

I dont get it. So when Ryan is saying they plan to try things with him all he is really doing is talking his player up?

 

This.

 

No JIF mentioned how Rex was talking up Coples at his pro day and my response to that comment was Rex talks up all his players for the most part. The guy talked up Aaron Maybin and Vernon Gholston for christs sake ...how quickly we forget

 

I did? 

[stugotz81]

There goes Rex again trying to fit square pegs into the round holes.

[Smashmouth]

Rex said:

 

“I see Quinton as a guy that can maybe be more of an edge presence than he was that first year,” Ryan said then, “but having him go through that, putting him over a guard, putting him over tackles, even over centers, I think it’s good because when you put him over tight ends, it’s a lot easier to knock those guys back and you have a lot of confidence when you face those double-teams. That was kind of what we did with him, but I’m expecting big things from him. Like I said, I think he’s just now scratching the surface.”

 

Obviously it isnt the entire "plan" but it sure sounds like they are thinking about using him to attack rather than cover or play the Thomas role, as you've referenced.  Maybe I'm looking to much into one little comment but thats all we have to go on.  You're speculating just as much as I am.

 

 

I did? 

yeah you did.... unless you forgot you posted Rex's quote.

 

Im not sure how you dont realize Rexs talks up all his players but hey to each his own.

[JiFtheOracle]

yeah you did.... unless you forgot you posted Rex's quote.

 

Im not sure how you dont realize Rexs talks up all his players but hey to each his own.

 

Dude, I'm lost.  We're discussing Q playing OLB.  Not Rex talking up players, which I havent said anything about in this thread.  The quote from Rex was referring to his plan as it pertains to Q playing OLB.

[flgreen]

No JIF mentioned how Rex was talking up Coples at his pro day and my response to that comment was Rex talks up all his players for the most part. The guy talked up Aaron Maybin and Vernon Gholston for christs sake ...how quickly we forget

He didn't talk gholston up.  He said something along the line that they discussed him in Baltimore, but weren't going to take him.  He also said if he couldn't get something out of him, no one could.

 

He was right

[SenorGato]

He didn't talk gholston up.  He said something along the line that they discussed him in Baltimore, but weren't going to take him.  He also said if he couldn't get something out of him, no one could.

 

He was right

 

YEP. 

 

I'm not even sure what he said on Maybin, but he's the only guy who ever got anything out of Maybin as a pro. 

[T0mShane]

He didn't talk gholston up. He said something along the line that they discussed him in Baltimore, but weren't going to take him. He also said if he couldn't get something out of him, no one could.

He was right

He said he would do for Gholston what he did for Suggs, and that if he couldn't make Gholston into a stud pass rusher, he wasn't doing his job. He was right COUGH.

It was only in his revisionist, self-serving biography that he called Gholston a phony, which is ten-thousand-spoons levels of ironic.

[SenorGato]

He said he would do for Gholston what he did for Suggs, and that if he couldn't make Gholston into a stud pass rusher, he wasn't doing his job. He was right COUGH.

It was only in his revisionist, self-serving biography that he called Gholston a phony, which is ten-thousand-spoons levels of ironic.

 

I believe this is the quote you're referencing and giving the ol' T0m spin to:

“The thing I’ve really been impressed with about Vernon is that he’s been there almost every day,” Ryan said. “When nobody else was in the building, he was in there, lifting weights and everything else.

“He’s ready to come out and, believe me, it’s in there. We all know it’s in there. But it’s my job to get this guy playing at a high level by any means necessary, and that’s what we’re going to do.”

Gholston, listed at 6-foot-3 and 264 pounds, left Ohio State after his junior season, when he set a Buckeyes record with 14 sacks.

“It’s just a matter of letting him know what we expect of him and letting him roll,” Ryan said. “All I want is everything he’s got. That’s all I want. Nothing more.

“It’s funny because I heard the same things about [Ravens defensive tackle] Haloti Ngata when he came out of college, that he took plays off and things like that. I don’t hear anyone saying that now.”

 

Gholston was used as a DE in 2009, the position Suggs played as a rookie. 

[Lupz27]

...and supposing the other team passes the ball?

 

Well we just put Revis on the #1 WR, and the... OH sh*t I FORGOT NEVERMIND