Tomlinson: Rex once said "I'm gonna punch [Belichick] in the face"

[Scott Dierking]

Please, why don't you and JoeKlecko provide the takeaway.  I'm interested to hear. 

I am more entertained in watching you (and others) gyrate through so many hoops to defend Rex. That's what entertains me.

 

I have the realization that there is no right or wrong in this debate-It is opinion based. I admitted I don't have an objective lens of Rex. 

 

It is with amusement that I watch you as you feel you do.

[Scott Dierking]

Yes, and if he had him in 2009 maybe we would have gone 6-10 and still be "ascending"!!

Conjecture, your honor!

 

See I can do it too!

[Klecko73isGod]

Yes, and if he had him in 2009 maybe we would have gone 6-10 and still be "ascending"!!

 

Ascending Genius. 

[Maxman]

Wrong in what?

 

About Rex. About everything. About all your hate.  About assuming that I put my pants on one leg at a time.

[Sperm Edwards]

No one is claiming or denying Belichick isn't skilled at what he does. But, the proposition that Belichick knew what he was getting when he drafted Brady in the 6th is not realistic. If Bill knew what he would be getting from Brady, he would have used his 1st round pick on him. That would show me serious acumen. Taking him in the 6th showed me Belichick saw POTENTIAL in him. Coaches see potential in dozens of players each year and depending how the draft goes they either get the opportunity to coach them or they do not. Just so happens, Belichick got that opportunity with Brady and got far more than he ever thought he would or could.

 

Hell, he might have even used his FIRST 6th round pick on him that year!

 

Belichick didn't "know" Brady was going to be great even after he spent a year on his own freaking roster. 

 

April 16, 2000 = Patriots draft Tom Brady at the bottom of round 6 (after passing on him in the mid-bottom of round 6 a dozen picks earlier)

 

March 8, 2001 = Patriots sign Drew Bledsoe to a 10 year $103M contract 

 

I'd think that if they knew anything of the sort about Brady's future greatness potential AFTER HE WAS ON THE ROSTER FOR A YEAR IN 2000, that they wouldn't have given Drew Bledsoe a $103M contract after the 2000 season ended.  Surely, Belichick would have identified the superior talent and told his GM "No, no no! Don't give Bledsoe a gargantuan record-breaking contract bigger than the one GB just gave Brett Favre last week! We have Tom freaking Brady!!"

 

But sure.  Belichick knew Brady was going to be great.  What revisionist garbage.

[slats]

That's not what I said. I said that Kotite's teams were totally unprepared and untalented. Thus they really never had a chance to win. Rex's teams have been talented ...

The talent has been going downhill on the Jets since his second year, primarily do to mismanagement in the front office.

...and supposedly coached up (prepared), plus if he's supposedly such a great motivator, so there is no good reason the team should not show up in the first half, and sometimes for whole games. The only possible explanation is that Rex doesn't have the pulse of the locker room, can't see that they're flat or not properly fired up, and should have done something to shake them and get their attention. That didn't happen under Edwards, Mangini or any other HC the Jets have ever had.

Laugh, be smarmy and sarcastic all you want, but it's fact. You're wrong.

So let me get this straight... In the history of the NY Jets, the only times the team has ever failed to show up for a half, or a game, has been during the Rex Ryan tenure. Rich Kotite gets somehow gets excused because as the GM he screwed up his own roster or something? Eric Mangini's teams played hard? That 4-12 team showed up for two halves every week? The team didn't completely quit on Al Groh down the stretch? Or do we ignore the quit in those teams because those guys fit the hardass mold so many here seem to think is an absolutely requirement for success?

And teams always showed up for the whole game under Carroll, Coslet, and Walton? Under Herm Edwards? Really? The Lou Holtz team put forth 100% effort every week?

This, in your mind, is fact?

Okay, then.

[Scott Dierking]

Hell, he might have even used his FIRST 6th round pick on him that year!

 

Belichick didn't "know" Brady was going to be great even after he spent a year on his own freaking roster. 

 

April 16, 2000 = Patriots draft Tom Brady at the bottom of round 6 (after passing on him in the mid-bottom of round 6 a dozen picks earlier)

 

March 8, 2001 = Patriots sign Drew Bledsoe to a 10 year $103M contract 

 

I'd think that if they knew anything of the sort about Brady's future greatness potential AFTER HE WAS ON THE ROSTER FOR A YEAR IN 2000, that they wouldn't have given Drew Bledsoe a $103M contract after the 2000 season ended.  Surely, Belichick would have identified the superior talent and told his GM "No, no no! Don't give Bledsoe a gargantuan record-breaking contract bigger than the one GB just gave Brett Favre last week! We have Tom freaking Brady!!"

 

But sure.  Belichick knew Brady was going to be great.  What revisionist garbage.

When Bledsoe was healthy after the injury, did he go right back to him, or keep Brady in?

[Scott Dierking]

About Rex. About everything. About all your hate.  About assuming that I put my pants on one leg at a time.

If I am the only one held to accountability on this site with written "I was wrong" apologies, so be it.

 

I have peaked in your windows and I know how you put your pants on. Sexy!

[Scott Dierking]

The talent has been going downhill on the Jets since his second year, primarily do to mismanagement in the front office.

  

Odd how Tannebaum drafted so much better in the Mangini years, than the Rex years. 

 

Must be dumb luck

[Sperm Edwards]

When Bledsoe was healthy after the injury, did he go right back to him, or keep Brady in?

 

How is that at all relevant to identifying Brady's talent in the 2000 draft?

 

In 2000, Brady was drafted

In 2001, Bledsoe was given the biggest contract in NFL history

 

He knew nothing until an accident showed him the light.

[Jetsfan80]

How is that at all relevant to identifying Brady's talent in the 2000 draft?

 

In 2000, Brady was drafted

In 2001, Bledsoe was given the biggest contract in NFL history

 

He knew nothing until an accident showed him the light.

 

/Endthread

[Scott Dierking]

How is that at all relevant to identifying Brady's talent in the 2000 draft?

 

In 2000, Brady was drafted

In 2001, Bledsoe was given the biggest contract in NFL history

 

He knew nothing until an accident showed him the light.

It's not. It is only relevant to BB understanding the talent that he had during the 2001 season. I promise you, most other coaches have a recently signed $100m qb on the bench, and he is ready to go, they put him in.

 

Think BB took a little chance there? Saw something?

 

Or was that just a lucky decision?

[slats]

Odd how Tannebaum drafted so much better in the Mangini years, than the Rex years. 

 

Must be dumb luck

The draft's in Rex's first two years were terrible, compounded by Tanny trading away so many picks that he had seven total over those two years. That set up the next two years in a bad way.

However, the drafts of '11 and '12 were certainly on par with the Mangini years. I know we like to give Mangini revisionist credit, but maybe it was Tanny doing the drafting all along. Unfortunately, Tannenbaum had also screwed the cap up seriously. The team is still paying off that today in the form of a depleted roster.

[jbone]

How is that at all relevant to identifying Brady's talent in the 2000 draft?

 

In 2000, Brady was drafted

In 2001, Bledsoe was given the biggest contract in NFL history

 

He knew nothing until an accident showed him the light.

Brady's first couple years weren't even that impressive, statistically anyway. I mean, he had good completion %s but nothing that really jumped out at you. Wasn't til his 5th season starting he threw for >4000 yds.

[Klecko73isGod]

The talent has been going downhill on the Jets since his second year, primarily do to mismanagement in the front office.

So let me get this straight... In the history of the NY Jets, the only times the team has ever failed to show up for a half, or a game, has been during the Rex Ryan tenure. Rich Kotite gets somehow gets excused because as the GM he screwed up his own roster or something? Eric Mangini's teams played hard? That 4-12 team showed up for two halves every week? The team didn't completely quit on Al Groh down the stretch? Or do we ignore the quit in those teams because those guys fit the hardass mold so many here seem to think is an absolutely requirement for success?

And teams always showed up for the whole game under Carroll, Coslet, and Walton? Under Herm Edwards? Really? The Lou Holtz team put forth 100% effort every week?

This, in your mind, is fact?

Okay, then.

 

Don't forget Pete Carroll's  6-5 start that finished with 5 straight losses. 

[Klecko73isGod]

The longer this thread goes the more pissed I get at Rex for not actually punching Belichick in the face. 

[Kleckineau]

No love for Al Groh.

Shame on you guys.

If Rex punches BB tonight, ALL is forgiven. Best Coach Ever.

[Scott Dierking]

Brady's first couple years weren't even that impressive, statistically anyway. I mean, he had good completion %s but nothing that really jumped out at you. Wasn't til his 5th season starting he threw for >4000 yds.

He "managed the game" very well.

 

Here is what we know about Rex. He knew he had proven schlok in Sanchez at QB, benched him in the Cardinal game, had un proven schlok McElroy provide a spark in that game to pull out, and then goes right back to the known schlock the following week.

 

Atta boy Rex! LOYALTY!

[Klecko73isGod]

He "managed the game" very well.

 

Here is what we know about Rex. He knew he had proven schlok in Sanchez at QB, benched him in the Cardinal game, had un proven schlok McElroy provide a spark in that game to pull out, and then goes right back to the known schlock the following week.

 

Atta boy Rex! LOYALTY!

 

Provide a spark? We won that game 7-6. The offense performed even worse than it did with Sanchez. 

[Scott Dierking]

Provide a spark? We won that game 7-6. The offense performed even worse than it did with Sanchez. 

The offense scored the TD with Mcelroy. Sanchez was 10-21 with 3 picks.

 

McElroy was 5-7 (only 29 yards) with a TD.

 

Explain to me how that is worse

 

And Rex goes right back to his pet student.

[Klecko73isGod]

The offense scored the TD with Mcelroy. Sanchez was 10-21 with 3 picks.

 

McElroy was 5-7 (only 29 yards) with a TD.

 

Explain to me how that is worse

 

And Rex goes right back to his pet student.

 

Seriously, one half of football where the Jets still scored below their season average? That's providing a "spark?" Had McElroy led the team to 3-4 TDs you might have a case to make but they were just as anemic with McElroy and his arm looked weaker than Pennington's after three surgeries. 

[Sperm Edwards]

It's not. It is only relevant to BB understanding the talent that he had during the 2001 season. I promise you, most other coaches have a recently signed $100m qb on the bench, and he is ready to go, they put him in.

 

Think BB took a little chance there? Saw something?

 

Or was that just a lucky decision?

 

He saw something after 15 games of using him as the starting QB (along with the rest of the league seeing the same thing at the same time).  Until then? No, he saw nothing other than a career backup, which is why he wanted Bledsoe signed to a new 10 year contract bigger than Brett Favre's.  

 

And that STILL has zero to do with knowing anything during the 2000 draft, which is how this Brady-credit talk all got started.  It has morphed into I don't know what while you keep moving goalposts from your prior arguments after each gets debunked.

 

He got lucky drafting a 1st ballot HOF QB at the bottom of round 6.  You say he saw talent in Brady, I say he saw greater talent in a handful of garbage from the same draft and the facts are on my side.  It is the equivalent of flinging mud against the wall and hitting your target once in a while.  In this case he hit the target like almost no one had hit it before or since.  Lucky.  It's ok to admit it since the whole planet including all of New England knows it.

 

Agree to disagree if you like.

[Scott Dierking]

Seriously, one half of football where the Jets still scored below their season average? That's providing a "spark?" Had McElroy led the team to 3-4 TDs you might have a case to make but they were just as anemic with McElroy and his arm looked weaker than Pennington's after three surgeries. 

Who performed better in the Cardinal game? 

 

Did the team win with McElroy? 

[Scott Dierking]

He saw something after 15 games of using him as the starting QB (along with the rest of the league seeing the same thing at the same time).  Until then? No, he saw nothing other than a career backup, which is why he wanted Bledsoe signed to a new 10 year contract bigger than Brett Favre's.  

 

 

Why did he not put Brady immediately on the bench, once Bledsoe was ready?

[slats]

Who performed better in the Cardinal game? 

 

Did the team win with McElroy?

Did the team win the following week with McElroy on the bench?

[Sperm Edwards]

Why did he not put Brady immediately on the bench, once Bledsoe was ready?

 

Because it was the obvious move.  Only a complete f*cking moron would bench a hot QB the team has rallied behind.  I give him full credit for not being a complete f*cking moron.

 

 

Belichick/Brady is worlds different from your Rex/McElroy analogy when he had nothing and nobody behind him on the roster (support-wise).  Everyone associated with the team (players & coaches alike) who made so much as a single thought public said he's a backup talent at best and a loudmouth jerk who didn't keep family business in the family.  The Patriots team LOVED Brady.  There would have been a mutiny if he was benched, and rightfully so.  Bench Brady and lose with Bledsoe and you are the biggest f*cking idiot in the league.  Lose with Brady and everyone shrugs their shoulders for just losing with the guys who got you there.

 

2001 Brady (on a 6 game winning streak and the darling of football/sports media) =/= one quarter of Greg McElroy who once scored a TD in a meaningless game against the Cardinals.

 

It's not like Bledsoe was all that anyway, despite that huge deal given to him.

[Scott Dierking]

Because it was the obvious move.  Only a complete f*cking moron would bench a hot QB the team has rallied behind.  I give him full credit for not being a complete f*cking moron.

 

 

Belichick/Brady is worlds different from your Rex/McElroy analogy when he had nothing and nobody behind him on the roster (support-wise).  Everyone associated with the team (players & coaches alike) who made so much as a single thought public said he's a backup talent at best and a loudmouth jerk who didn't keep family business in the family.  The Patriots team LOVED Brady.  There would have been a mutiny if he was benched, and rightfully so.  Bench Brady and lose with Bledsoe and you are the biggest f*cking idiot in the league.  Lose with Brady and everyone shrugs their shoulders for just losing with the guys who got you there.

 

2001 Brady (on a 6 game winning streak and the darling of football/sports media) =/= one quarter of Greg McElroy who once scored a TD in a meaningless game against the Cardinals.

 

It's not like Bledsoe was all that anyway, despite that huge deal given to him.

The Patriots sat at 5-5 when BB made the decision. Don't let facts get in the way of a good story

 

http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/2009/12/5-the-bradybledsoe-decision

In mid November, the Patriots sat at 5-5 following a home loss to the St. Louis Rams. The next day, on Monday, November 19, Bill Belichick announced that Tom Brady would be his starter for the “foreseeable future.” Bledsoe had been cleared to return to action, but would not be getting “his job” back.

 

The Bledsoe backers in the media immediately went on the offensive, blasting Belichick, with Borges claiming that the coach had outright lied to Bledsoe. Borges later bragged on the radio that he himself had counseled Bledsoe during this time.

 

Oh, and Sperm, what did the Jets have to lose, not staying with McElroy? A turn-around by Sanchez?

[Klecko73isGod]

Because it was the obvious move.  Only a complete f*cking moron would bench a hot QB the team has rallied behind.  I give him full credit for not being a complete f*cking moron.

 

 

Belichick/Brady is worlds different from your Rex/McElroy analogy when he had nothing and nobody behind him on the roster (support-wise).  Everyone associated with the team (players & coaches alike) who made so much as a single thought public said he's a backup talent at best and a loudmouth jerk who didn't keep family business in the family.  The Patriots team LOVED Brady.  There would have been a mutiny if he was benched, and rightfully so.  Bench Brady and lose with Bledsoe and you are the biggest f*cking idiot in the league.  Lose with Brady and everyone shrugs their shoulders for just losing with the guys who got you there.

 

2001 Brady (on a 6 game winning streak and the darling of football/sports media) =/= one quarter of Greg McElroy who once scored a TD in a meaningless game against the Cardinals.

 

It's not like Bledsoe was all that anyway, despite that huge deal given to him.

 

QB spark + ascendant genius = comic gold. 

[Scott Dierking]

When BB made the decision to stick with Brady, he was averaging 179 yards through the air/game, with 12 TDs to 7 interceptions.

 

Hardly obvious numbers

[Scott Dierking]

QB spark + ascendant genius = comic gold. 

Are you here to provide any substance, or just peanut gallery banter?

[Klecko73isGod]

Are you here to provide any substance, or just peanut gallery banter?

 

Seriously Wes Welker?

[Scott Dierking]

Seriously Wes Welker?

I can tell your day at work was only mildly better;)

[Sperm Edwards]

The Patriots sat at 5-5 when BB made the decision. Don't let facts get in the way of a good story

 

http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/2009/12/5-the-bradybledsoe-decision

In mid November, the Patriots sat at 5-5 following a home loss to the St. Louis Rams. The next day, on Monday, November 19, Bill Belichick announced that Tom Brady would be his starter for the “foreseeable future.” Bledsoe had been cleared to return to action, but would not be getting “his job” back.

 

The Bledsoe backers in the media immediately went on the offensive, blasting Belichick, with Borges claiming that the coach had outright lied to Bledsoe. Borges later bragged on the radio that he himself had counseled Bledsoe during this time.

 

Oh, and Sperm, what did the Jets have to lose, not staying with McElroy? A turn-around by Sanchez?

 

What he had to lose was the team was behind Sanchez more than McElroy because they viewed Sanchez as the only possibility of being a real QB.  There was Sanchez, a smart kid, and an athlete.  That's what I remember hearing (think it was DeVito).  Other locker room "leaders" like Mangold were firmly behind Sanchez as the starter.  

 

If you can find me something that says the Pats team was not behind the move and he did it anyway then fine.  But it's not like Bledsoe was so freaking awesome anyway.  That Pats team may have been 5-5, but with Bledsoe they were 0-2.  They were 5-3 in Brady's first 8 NFL starts and for the previous month he was completing 70% of his passes.  They just lost a game? Yeah, to the SB favorite Rams.  They might have come back to tie it up if BB's defense could get off the field instead of choking at the end of the game in "gutless" fashion (oops!).

 

Brady was his hot hand.  He stuck with his hot hand who was 5-3 instead of the guy who just recovered from a collapsed lung who was 0-2 and out of action for 2+ months.  Bledsoe's last action on the field was directing the Pats to 3 points against the Jets.

 

It is completely different from going or not going with a no-talent Greg McElroy after his 10 plays in a meaningless game.  McElroy had zero chance of being the team's new QB of the future, totally unlike the situation with Brady.

[Scott Dierking]

What he had to lose was the team was behind Sanchez more than McElroy because they viewed Sanchez as the only possibility of being a real QB.  There was Sanchez, a smart kid, and an athlete.  That's what I remember hearing (think it was DeVito).  Other locker room "leaders" like Mangold were firmly behind Sanchez as the starter.  

 

If you can find me something that says the Pats team was not behind the move and he did it anyway then fine.  But it's not like Bledsoe was so freaking awesome anyway.  That Pats team may have been 5-5, but with Bledsoe they were 0-2.  They were 5-3 in Brady's first 8 NFL starts and for the previous month he was completing 70% of his passes.  They just lost a game? Yeah, to the SB favorite Rams.  They might have come back to tie it up if BB's defense could get off the field instead of choking at the end of the game in "gutless" fashion (oops!).

 

Brady was his hot hand.  He stuck with his hot hand who was 5-3 instead of the guy who just recovered from a collapsed lung who was 0-2 and out of action for 2+ months.  Bledsoe's last action on the field was directing the Pats to 3 points against the Jets.

 

It is completely different from going or not going with a no-talent Greg McElroy after his 10 plays in a meaningless game.  McElroy had zero chance of being the team's new QB of the future, totally unlike the situation with Brady.

http://articles.courant.com/2001-11-21/sports/0111211687_1_patriots-snaps-practice

 

And the difference between a Rex Ryan locker room and a BB one- You hear comments from Devit about the qb decision. You won't get those from a BB locker room.

 

You had said Brady won 5 in a row???????

[Sperm Edwards]

When BB made the decision to stick with Brady, he was averaging 179 yards through the air/game, with 12 TDs to 7 interceptions.

 

Hardly obvious numbers

 

Now take away his first 2 NFL starts, which any reasonable person would do.

 

Then it's 220 yards and 2 passing TDs per game.  The one game that lowered those averages they held Buffalo to 3 points for the first 57 minutes and had a 2-score lead.  Why have him pass all over the field when you can dink & dunk your way to an easy victory?

 

He had a couple of great games, 1 stinker, and 1 game where he did about as well as most others (vs the Rams).  He was completing 70% of his passes and BB decided that was the better way to go to match with his defense than get into a bunch of missile-launching shootouts with Bledsoe.

 

I don't remember him taking a lot of heat from here.  Bledsoe wasn't all that (and Coach Great Judgment gave him that enormous contract all the same, after he already had Tom Brady on the team, who you basically say he knew was going to be good). 

 

He thought he had a backup QB.  He put him in and showed a lot more than that, so he stuck with him and the rest, as they say, is history.

 

I don't see how this compares to Rex Ryan, unless it is your assertion that Greg McElroy = Tom Brady and Rex was too stupid and gutless to recognize it.