Sanchez Staying w/ Eagles guarantees Foles as Trade Chip

[Scott Dierking]

He stinks.

Better future than Foles

[T0mShane]

Yes, if teh Jets trade for Foles, it will be a terminal one.

Jet fans, lapping up a qb who had 13 turnovers in 7 games.

No one is counting on Foles to be the QB of the future. He'd be a rather small element of a trade, and he might make the 2015 season a wee bit easier to stomach.

[T0mShane]

Better future than Foles

Nobody knows this.

[Sperm Edwards]

Yes, if teh Jets trade for Foles, it will be a terminal one.

 

Jet fans, lapping up a qb who had 13 turnovers in 7 games. 

 

Is that the extent of his career numbers, or did he have a similar season the year before when 2/5 of his starting OL wasn't out and the ground game didn't also disappear?

 

I don't think he's headed to Canton. I think our team could do some damage if he was merely a game manager, which Kelly wasn't striving for anyway (and couldn't, with that defense).

[Scott Dierking]

No one is counting on Foles to be the QB of the future. He'd be a rather small element of a trade, and he might make the 2015 season a wee bit easier to stomach.

There is no reason to make that trade then. An extra #1 to move down 14 spots in he first round is stupidily crazy. It is jack and the beanstalk type GMing.

[Scott Dierking]

Nobody knows this.

Wait, you just said Mariota stinks.

[T0mShane]

There is no reason to make that trade then. An extra #1 to move down 14 spots in he first round is stupidily crazy. It is jack and the beanstalk type GMing.

The going rate is 2015 first and second, 2016 first, and change. In this case, "change" would be Foles.

[T0mShane]

Wait, you just said Mariota stinks.

He stinks

[Scott Dierking]

Is that the extent of his career numbers, or did he have a similar season the year before when 2/5 of his starting OL wasn't out and the ground game didn't also disappear?

 

I don't think he's headed to Canton. I think our team could do some damage if he was merely a game manager, which Kelly wasn't striving for anyway (and couldn't, with that defense).

It is his most recent past, without Jackson on his team.

 

Foles faced less pressure last year, than the year before

 

http://articles.philly.com/2014-10-28/sports/55526022_1_nick-foles-chip-kelly-pro-football-focus

 

 

 

Despite significant injuries to two starters on the Eagles' offensive line, center Jason Kelce and guard Evan Mathis, Foles hasn't seen a marked increase in pass pressure from opposing defenses. In fact, according to Pro Football Focus, defenses have pressured him a bit less frequently this season (33.2 percent of the time) than they did last season (34.3 percent). On average, he's had 2.81 seconds to throw in 2014 - still the sixth-highest time per throw in the league and only a slight recession from last season, when the Eagles' line gave him an average of 3.11 seconds.

Nevertheless, Foles' accuracy when he's been under pressure has plummeted from 68.1 percent last year to 50.0 percent this year. Those downfield overthrows to Jeremy Maclin and Zach Ertz really are happening more frequently. Would Foles' overall accuracy be better if DeSean Jackson were still around? Maybe, but it's difficult to imagine that Jackson's departure is the sole reason for such a pronounced decline.

[Scott Dierking]

The going rate is 2015 first and second, 2016 first, and change. In this case, "change" would be Foles.

blech

[Scott Dierking]

He stinks

Foles sucks

[32EBoozer]

It is his most recent past, without Jackson on his team.

 

Foles faced less pressure last year, than the year before

 

http://articles.philly.com/2014-10-28/sports/55526022_1_nick-foles-chip-kelly-pro-football-focus

 

 

 

Despite significant injuries to two starters on the Eagles' offensive line, center Jason Kelce and guard Evan Mathis, Foles hasn't seen a marked increase in pass pressure from opposing defenses. In fact, according to Pro Football Focus, defenses have pressured him a bit less frequently this season (33.2 percent of the time) than they did last season (34.3 percent). On average, he's had 2.81 seconds to throw in 2014 - still the sixth-highest time per throw in the league and only a slight recession from last season, when the Eagles' line gave him an average of 3.11 seconds.

Nevertheless, Foles' accuracy when he's been under pressure has plummeted from 68.1 percent last year to 50.0 percent this year. Those downfield overthrows to Jeremy Maclin and Zach Ertz really are happening more frequently. Would Foles' overall accuracy be better if DeSean Jackson were still around? Maybe, but it's difficult to imagine that Jackson's departure is the sole reason for such a pronounced decline.

No DeSean Jackson makes a big difference.

Maclin and DeSean vs. Just maclin... huge

[Scott Dierking]

No DeSean Jackson makes a big difference.

Maclin and DeSean vs. Just maclin... huge

Yeah, and the Jets don't have Desean either.

 

Foles was seeing ghosts out there. I watched all the Eagles games.

[T0mShane]

blech

The reality is that the Jets need corners and OL more than they need WR and (possibly) OLB. If they draft CB or OT at 6, I'll cry for hours. But if they do so at 20, with two picks in the second round and two firsts (plus) in 2016, that's pretty meaty. Foles is gravy. Big, pasty gravy.

[Scott Dierking]

The reality is that the Jets need corners and OL more than they need WR and (possibly) OLB. If they draft CB or OT at 6, I'll cry for hours. But if they do so at 20, with two picks in the second round and two firsts (plus) in 2016, that's pretty meaty. Foles is gravy. Big, pasty gravy.

Just not good value. I would be willing to trade down, but not to 20 with that deal

[T0mShane]

Just not good value

What's not? The player pool at 6 isn't so much better than it is at 20 this year.

[Scott Dierking]

What's not? The player pool at 6 isn't so much better than it is at 20 this year.

20 and next year #1 +Foles is not a value for 6. It is not value for top 10

[32EBoozer]

Yeah, and the Jets don't have Desean either.

 

Foles was seeing ghosts out there. I watched all the Eagles games.

No but Marshall/ Decker could be comparable

[Scott Dierking]

No but Marshall/ Decker could be comparable

Jordan Mathews, Zach Ertz and Darren Sproles are no slouches.

 

Let's not make out like Foles was bereft at the WR position. 

[Sperm Edwards]

It is his most recent past, without Jackson on his team.

 

Foles faced less pressure last year, than the year before

 

http://articles.philly.com/2014-10-28/sports/55526022_1_nick-foles-chip-kelly-pro-football-focus

 

 

 

Despite significant injuries to two starters on the Eagles' offensive line, center Jason Kelce and guard Evan Mathis, Foles hasn't seen a marked increase in pass pressure from opposing defenses. In fact, according to Pro Football Focus, defenses have pressured him a bit less frequently this season (33.2 percent of the time) than they did last season (34.3 percent). On average, he's had 2.81 seconds to throw in 2014 - still the sixth-highest time per throw in the league and only a slight recession from last season, when the Eagles' line gave him an average of 3.11 seconds.

Nevertheless, Foles' accuracy when he's been under pressure has plummeted from 68.1 percent last year to 50.0 percent this year. Those downfield overthrows to Jeremy Maclin and Zach Ertz really are happening more frequently. Would Foles' overall accuracy be better if DeSean Jackson were still around? Maybe, but it's difficult to imagine that Jackson's departure is the sole reason for such a pronounced decline.

 

When a QB is under pressure on a particular play, it matters not what the "average" time to throw was. A left tackle that gets beaten badly doesn't get a little time added in for his QB by borrowing from a prior or subsequent play (or even a different game) when he blocked better.

 

Say a RB tears off a 40-yard run through a big hole and long running lane. Then he gets stuffed for a loss and then ankle-tackled for a 1 yard gain on the next series, and the team ends up punting. After that, he runs for next to nothing on each of his next 10 carries. The 11-carry total is 61 yards, good for a 5.55 average ypc. Was this RB's average run a good one?

[Scott Dierking]

When a QB is under pressure on a particular play, it matters not what the "average" time to throw was. A left tackle that gets beaten badly doesn't get a little time added in for his QB by borrowing from a prior or subsequent play (or even a different game) when he blocked better.

 

Say a RB tears off a 40-yard run through a big hole and long running lane. Then he gets stuffed for a loss and then ankle-tackled for a 1 yard gain on the next series, and the team ends up punting. After that, he runs for next to nothing on each of his next 10 carries. The 11-carry total is 61 yards, good for a 5.55 average ypc. Was this RB's average run a good one?

So, throwing off the back foot when the rusher is not near is acceptable?

 

I am telling you what I saw from Foles on a consistent basis, he was seeing ghosts. And putting the ball up for grabs, when there was time.

 

PS-Your math is horrible

[Sperm Edwards]

So, throwing off the back foot when the rusher is not near is acceptable?

 

I am telling you what I saw from Foles on a consistent basis, he was seeing ghosts. And putting the ball up for grabs, when there was time.

 

k

 

How did he have the season he had the year before?

[Scott Dierking]

k

 

How did he have the season he had the year before?

What should we bas an athlete on-What he did 2 years ago, or more recently, after teams adjusted?

 

Remember the Kelly System mantra too?

[Scott Dierking]

Mark Sanchez had equal stats to Nick Foles in the same offense, the same year.

 

Need I say more?

[Sperm Edwards]

What should we bas an athlete on-What he did 2 years ago, or more recently, after teams adjusted?

 

I would think both, since 2 years ago is still very recent, is still half of his 16 most recent starts, and he's still a young QB.

 

Based on your post, given the "recent" success of his 2013 season, then in April of 2014 we should have traded multiple #1 picks (and more) for him if Kelly would have taken the deal.

 

If his main problem was throwing off his back foot too much, we even saw Geno Smith correct that from one season to the next. Now Smith was still a bad QB anyway, but not because of that. It's not a permanent problem. 

 

If he still feels footsteps and he's totally David Carr'd where it's unfixable, then look in another direction the year after. If he can come within 20% of the numbers he put up in 2013, it's well worth it. I don't think Foles is the next coming of Aaron Rodgers, but he put up some great numbers pretty recently. If Mariota was such a sure thing himself, there would be no discussion of such a successful college QB reaching #6, let alone past us. It would be nice to pick up a QB who has shown he can succeed at the pro level instead of only betting on a QB who may or may not be able to make the transition in the first place (or may not make it for a number of years, like an Alex Smith). 

[Patriot Killa]

Mark Sanchez had equal stats to Nick Foles in the same offense, the same year.

Need I say more?

Nick Foles... FOR PREZ. You're just jelly because you don't look like John Idzik.

[Scott Dierking]

I would think both, since 2 years ago is still very recent, is still half of his 16 most recent starts, and he's still a young QB.

 

Based on your post, given the "recent" success of his 2013 season, then in April of 2014 we should have traded multiple #1 picks (and more) for him if Kelly would have taken the deal.

 

If his main problem was throwing off his back foot too much, we even saw Geno Smith correct that from one season to the next. Now Smith was still a bad QB anyway, but not because of that. It's not a permanent problem. 

 

If he still feels footsteps and he's totally David Carr'd where it's unfixable, then look in another direction the year after. If he can come within 20% of the numbers he put up in 2013, it's well worth it. I don't think Foles is the next coming of Aaron Rodgers, but he put up some great numbers pretty recently. If Mariota was such a sure thing himself, there would be no discussion of such a successful college QB reaching #6, let alone past us. It would be nice to pick up a QB who has shown he can succeed at the pro level instead of only betting on a QB who may or may not be able to make the transition in the first place (or may not make it for a number of years, like an Alex Smith). 

Again Foles and Sanchez stats were equal in the same offense.

 

I would not have traded for Foles after 2013, so that point is moot.

 

The back foot problem was not the "main" problem, but countered your "having time" analogy.

 

I am not in teh business of "hoping" that someone will revert, because I want them too. Surprised you are, frankly.

[GimmeShelter]

Whether he is or he isn't, I think he's a better option than Geno plus a couple of consecutive drafts of taking a shot on total question-marks in rounds 2-6. Also beats banking on ending up with a high enough 1st round pick at just the right time.

 

And he might even improve from his 2nd partial-season at starter, spent with 3/5 of his OL. 

Idzik should have addressed the Geno sucks issue during last years draft but I agree with you on Foles.  We need to keep plucking QB's in whatever manner possible until we get it right.

 

Who knows???....maybe Geno's light bulb goes on (doubt it) but I'd feel much better about this season with Foles as our starter.

[OuttaSightPF]

Uh, how  about trade for Foles NOW? Then Philadelphia isn't locked into trading with teams who value Foles at the amount Kelly wants him to be valued. It can still be us, where we get back our Foles pick instead of first getting Foles mid-draft. But what if a team simply doesn't like Foles? Then the Eagles can't trade with them as they won't get the same return for Foles after they already have Mariota in their hands.

 

Also because the value placed upon Foles isn't an absolute (like a draft pick is), we don't have to worry about someone else then placing a higher value on him at that moment.

 

Have to at least throw it past Kelly now. Part of the attraction of us making a trade with them is as much because an instant-starter QB would be part of the haul we'd get. What if he'd take a 3rd? I tend to think the pricetag would be a 2nd, but what do we have to lose with the offer now that Foles isn't their only stopgap for the season?

The reason we need to trade for Foles now is becuase it will dramatically affect who we can land when free agency kicks off. By Friday the top tier guys will be gone and then it makes no difference who our QB is. But for the next 72 hours or so the best avaialble players will look at Florham Park as WAY more attractive with a legitimate QB in place.

[Patriot Killa]

The reason we need to trade for Foles now is becuase it will dramatically affect who we can land when free agency kicks off. By Friday the top tier guys will be gone and then it makes no difference who our QB is. But for the next 72 hours or so the best avaialble players will look at Florham Park as WAY more attractive with a legitimate QB in place.

I would give a third this year and a fifth next? Is that too little lmao?

[OuttaSightPF]

I would give a third this year and a fifth next? Is that too little lmao?

I would have said it's too little a few months ago, but it might work. However, I'd say this... I think we need all of our first 3 picks. I'd rather give up next years 2nd for Foles straight up. It's a high pick but it allows us to keep our picks this year, which we need.

[Patriot Killa]

I would have said it's too little a few months ago, but it might work. However, I'd say this... I think we need all of our first 3 picks. I'd rather give up next years 2nd for Foles straight up. It's a high pick but it allows us to keep our picks this year, which we need.

I would do it too. Foles is easily worth it.

[drdetroit]

Keep spouting this nonsense. It doesn't make it true. Yeah, less games but think of how many more attempts per game. Geno threw 13 TDs, 13 ints and fumbled 8 times. Files 13 TDs, 10 I ts and 4 fumbles. 7 is a pretty significant number of turnovers IMO

FWIW INT % Geno 3.5, Files 3.2, Glennon 3.0

Dude you sound so silly. "Foles played in less games b-but he had more throws per game."

Foles had almost as many picks as Geno last year playing in 6 less games in the most qb-friendly offense dumping it in the flats to McCoy every other passing attempt. The guy is so overrated there's a reason why Kelly is trying to move on from him.

[32EBoozer]

So who or what do you recommend?

[joewilly12]

Foles is not the answer BPA available at 6