Ryan Fitzpatrick lifts Jets offense from wretched to good, which could make them great

[AFJF]

Nice to see that with Fitz under center, Brandon Marshall is off to the best start of his career.  Good quarterback play really can make a difference.

[EM31]

You are absolutely delusional if you truly believe that our weapons from last year are even remotely comparable to this year. The presence of Brandon Marshall alone makes a ridiculous difference.

I will repost from a different thread.  Perhaps you feel that Stacey is going to break out and become Adrian Peterson or that the replacement for Fireman Ed. can somehow be considered as a new offensive weapon for the Jets. If not then here is the list of changes and I repeat that between the two of us only one of us  is being "absolutely delusional" in terms of a fair evaluation of the offensive talent on the team between last year and this year.

I leave it up to others to determine which of us that is. 

The problem is with people who desperately want to force the narrative that last year Geno had the worst set of weapons in the history of the NFL and somehow this year Fitz has hugely upgraded weapons and that is the reason the offense is performing better.  Repeat it often enough and some might even foolishly believe it.

The only problem is that it is not true.

Weapons Facts

Harvin - Top playmaker #1 receiver, recent Superbowl MVP - Loss

Marshall - Top playmaker #1 receiver - Added

Devin Smith - 2nd round draft choice - Injured in camp - Unknown quantity - Added

Eric Decker - Here last year - started 15 of 16 games - this year dinged up for a game as well.

Jeremy Kerley - Here last year

Enunya - Here last year

Owusu - here last year

Amaro - Here last year - missing significant time this year

Cumberland - Here last year

Ivory - Here last year

Powell - Here last year

Stacey - 3rd string RB, almost no carries - Added

[Integrity28]

Oh no... The Geno crowd is not to like this one

I can see a few folks losing sleep over this.

Losing sleep, losing hair, and losing control of their bladders... yea.

 

 

[nyjunc]

 

I will repost from a different thread.  Perhaps you feel that Stacey is going to break out and become Adrian Peterson or that the replacement for Fireman Ed. can somehow be considered as a new offensive weapon for the Jets. If not then here is the list of changes and I repeat that between the two of us only one of us  is being "absolutely delusional" in terms of a fair evaluation of the offensive talent on the team between last year and this year.

I leave it up to others to determine which of us that is.  Meanwhile these are the facts.

 

On what planet is Harvin a #1 WR?  and he had him half the year w/ no offseason or training camp.

Decker was HURT most of last year, did you see what Geno did w/ a healthy Decker later in the year?

Kerley was a #2 WR for us last year, this year he can't get on the field.

Enunwa played part of 1 game last year

Owusu came here midseason and played just 5 games for us

Cumberland has never been anything more than an average player

Ivory was underutilized the last 2 years

 

the addition of Marshall alone makes it a HUGE difference.  a legit top flight WR which we haven't had since Keyshawn.  there is no comparison w/ what geno had to work w/ last compared to what Fitz has this year.

[Integrity28]

From KFFL...

N.Y. offense has work to do

New York Jets QB Ryan Fitzpatrick has thrown six interceptions in 145 attempts this year despite being praised by head coach Todd Bowles for his command of the offense. When Fitzpatrick has thrown to either WRs Brandon Marshall or Eric Decker he has a 71% completion rate and 9.4 yards per attempt. However, his completion percentage is just 43.4 and is throwing for just 4.5 yards per attempt to all the other receivers. WR Devin Smith has just five catches on 15 targets as the team tries to get him more involved. The Jets don’t have a true pass-catching running back, and they use their tight ends as blockers.

I think the reality of where and why we're struggling at times, is that we haven't seen enough contribution from our #3-6 WRs, and more alarmingly have no TE or RB as part of the passing game, in a time in the league where pass-catchers at those positions are plentiful and major parts of most offenses.

[nyjunc]

From KFFL...

I think the reality of where and why we're struggling at times, is that we haven't seen enough contribution from our #3-6 WRs, and more alarmingly have no TE or RB as part of the passing game, in a time in the league where pass-catchers at those positions are plentiful and major parts of most offenses.

that's on the QB, the receivers have been open. he has been missing them. 

[AFJF]

that's on the QB, the receivers have been open. he has been missing them. 

On what planet is Harvin a #1 WR?  and he had him half the year w/ no offseason or training camp.

Decker was HURT most of last year, did you see what Geno did w/ a healthy Decker later in the year?

Kerley was a #2 WR for us last year, this year he can't get on the field.

Enunwa played part of 1 game last year

Owusu came here midseason and played just 5 games for us

Cumberland has never been anything more than an average player

Ivory was underutilized the last 2 years

 

the addition of Marshall alone makes it a HUGE difference.  a legit top flight WR which we haven't had since Keyshawn.  there is no comparison w/ what geno had to work w/ last compared to what Fitz has this year.

Keeps missing them, yet completing over 60% of his passes...almost seems impossible.

[EM31]

On what planet is Harvin a #1 WR?  and he had him half the year w/ no offseason or training camp.

Decker was HURT most of last year, did you see what Geno did w/ a healthy Decker later in the year?

Kerley was a #2 WR for us last year, this year he can't get on the field.

Enunwa played part of 1 game last year

Owusu came here midseason and played just 5 games for us

Cumberland has never been anything more than an average player

Ivory was underutilized the last 2 years

 

the addition of Marshall alone makes it a HUGE difference.  a legit top flight WR which we haven't had since Keyshawn.  there is no comparison w/ what geno had to work w/ last compared to what Fitz has this year.

Harvin was a #1 weapon by almost any definition.  Marshall is playing great but to say this is something in exchange for noting is dopey.

Kerley has been on the team both years and getting less looks this year for whatever reason, but still - NO CHANGE

Decker started 15 of 16 games last year - look it up - Decker has missed time this year - SO NO CHANGE

Enunwa and Owusu are variously practice squad guys or free agent pickups.  Scrubs.  Same this year as last year - NO CHANGE

Ivory has been dinged up for 1.5 out of 4 games - Same last year as this year - NO CHANGE

Bilal Powell - NO CHANGE

Amraro - Here both years, NO CHANGE except that he is currently injured so in reality OPNE FEWER WEAPON

Cumberland is a scrub both years so - NO CHANGE

 

[nyjunc]

 

Keeps missing them, yet completing over 60% of his passes...almost seems impossible.

that's why we don't just look at #s w/o seeing how they are accumulated.  6.4 YPA, 10.5 YPC. 

[nyjunc]

Harvin was a #1 weapon by almost any definition.  Marshall is playing great but to say this is something in exchange for noting is dopey.

Kerley has been on the team both years and getting less looks this year for whatever reason, but still - NO CHANGE

Decker started 15 of 16 games last year - look it up - Decker has missed time this year - SO NO CHANGE

Enunwa and Owusu are variously practice squad guys or free agent pickups.  Scrubs.  Same this year as last year - NO CHANGE

Ivory has been dinged up for 1.5 out of 4 games - Same last year as this year - NO CHANGE

Bilal Powell - NO CHANGE

Amraro - Here both years, NO CHANGE except that he is currently injured so in reality OPNE FEWER WEAPON

Cumberland is a scrub both years so - NO CHANGE

 

No one associated w/ football would call Percy Harvin a #1 WR

Kerley tells us everything, was our #2 and now he can't get on the field.

Decker was playing hurt most of the season, if you couldn't see how different he looked I can't help you

Enunwa and Owusu are playing over Kerley

Amaro is out this year so how is that no change?

 

[AFJF]

that's why we don't just look at #s w/o seeing how they are accumulated.  6.4 YPA, 10.5 YPC. 

Completion percentage is accumulated by getting the ball into the hands of your receivers.  He has done that over 60% of the time and you're saying they're open but he's "missing them".  If he is missing them, how is he completing 60% of his passes?  It's impossible.

[Integrity28]

 

Keeps missing them, yet completing over 60% of his passes...almost seems impossible.

You're a nice guy. I'd jump right to call him stupid by now.

[cant wait]

Harvin was a #1 weapon by almost any definition.  Marshall is playing great but to say this is something in exchange for noting is dopey.

Kerley has been on the team both years and getting less looks this year for whatever reason, but still - NO CHANGE

Decker started 15 of 16 games last year - look it up - Decker has missed time this year - SO NO CHANGE

Enunwa and Owusu are variously practice squad guys or free agent pickups.  Scrubs.  Same this year as last year - NO CHANGE

Ivory has been dinged up for 1.5 out of 4 games - Same last year as this year - NO CHANGE

Bilal Powell - NO CHANGE

Amraro - Here both years, NO CHANGE except that he is currently injured so in reality OPNE FEWER WEAPON

Cumberland is a scrub both years so - NO CHANGE

 

if fitz was as good as you claim he is you wouldn't have to come up with all these excuses. The fact that you say there's no difference between Marshall and Harvin is a joke

[EM31]

that's why we don't just look at #s w/o seeing how they are accumulated.  6.4 YPA, 10.5 YPC. 

Stop moving the goalposts.  The argument is offensive weapons.  How many and how good.

If you want to make the argument about defensive turnovers and ball position then fine but that is a different discussion.  This one was about offensive efficiency in the red zone, going from putrid to stellar and the same Geno apologists attempting to spin it once again as having nothing to do with the QB.

[nyjunc]

Completion percentage is accumulated by getting the ball into the hands of your receivers.  He has done that over 60% of the time and you're saying they're open but he's "missing them".  If he is missing them, how is he completing 60% of his passes?  It's impossible.

so if he is not missing those other receivers why is his comp % 43.4% when throwing to receivers not named Brandon marshall & Eric Decker?

[nyjunc]

You're a nice guy. I'd jump right to call him stupid by now.

a clueless guy calling me stupid?  interesting

[nyjunc]

Stop moving the goalposts.  The argument is offensive weapons.  How many and how good.

If you want to make the argument about defensive turnovers and ball position then fine but that is a different discussion.  This one was about offensive efficiency in the red zone, going from putrid to stellar and the same Geno apologists attempting to spin it once again as having nothing to do with the QB.

nothing is being moved, last years weapons are nowhere near as good as this year.  Just look at Kerley, #2 a year ago and cannot get on the field.  plays less than 2 guys you described as "practice squad guys".  That is all we need to know.

you don't think a guy like Brandon Marshall helps w/ RZ efficiency?

[AFJF]

so if he is not missing those other receivers why is his comp % 43.4% when throwing to receivers not named Brandon marshall & Eric Decker?

You mean to tell me an NFL quarterback has a better completion percentage when he throws to his more talented receivers?  Must be some kind of anomaly.  I'm sure there's no difference in completion percentage around the league with other QB's when throwing to their top pass-catchers.

 

[cant wait]

No one associated w/ football would call Percy Harvin a #1 WR

Kerley tells us everything, was our #2 and now he can't get on the field.

Decker was playing hurt most of the season, if you couldn't see how different he looked I can't help you

Enunwa and Owusu are playing over Kerley

Amaro is out this year so how is that no change?

 

decker is a below average WR1, but playing across from Marshall he's an above average WR2. Yet the fitzfluffers would say we don't have more talented players on offense because they want their man to look good

[nyjunc]

You mean to tell me an NFL quarterback has a better completion percentage when he throws to his more talented receivers?  Must be some kind of anomaly.  I'm sure there's no difference in completion percentage around the league with other QB's when throwing to their top pass-catchers.

 

you don't find it strange the difference is that startling? especially since Decker missed a game.

even w/ marshall and decker he's been off target but those guys are good enough to make adjustments and save bad passes consistently.  he's missed open guys every week, he has done a great job leading the team, he has done a poor job of actually throwing the football.

 

 

[Integrity28]

that's on the QB, the receivers have been open. he has been missing them. 

So, I make the point that we have no pass-catching TE or RB, and "that's on the QB because the WRs are open".

 

[AFJF]

you don't find it strange the difference is that startling? especially since Decker missed a game.

even w/ marshall and decker he's been off target but those guys are good enough to make adjustments and save bad passes consistently.  he's missed open guys every week, he has done a great job leading the team, he has done a poor job of actually throwing the football.

 

 

I agree...sometimes he throws incomplete passes while winning football games...it's a nightmare.

[nyjunc]

So, I make the point that we have no pass-catching TE or RB, and "that's on the QB because the WRs are open".

 

you(or someone) posted the comp % #s to those not named Marshall/Decker.  our other WRs have gotten open fairly consistently, the QB ahs been all over the place w/ his throws to them.  there have been some good ones dropped so it goes both ways but we have a very talented WR corps, we don't have pass catching TEs though.

[EM31]

if fitz was as good as you claim he is you wouldn't have to come up with all these excuses. The fact that you say there's no difference between Marshall and Harvin is a joke

Nobody claimed they were the same.  I claimed that Percy Harvin was a #1 weapon in this league so anyone making the claim that we have some new weapons this year and we lost nothing is both stupid and incorrect.  Is that what you are saying here Cant wait?

These are not excuses for Fitzpatrick.  I will try to help you out with smaller words. Do try to follow the bouncing ball...

(1) Geno Smith was putrid last year in the red zone

(2) Fitz has been good to very good this year in the red zone.

(3) Geno supporters will invariably (oops big word please remove) try to make the case that Geno had the worst weapons ever last year and that Fitz has great new weapons this year

Therefore... .wait for it... this is not a "Fitz excuse" line of reasoning it is actually a "Geno excuse" line (I wont even dignify it by calling it reasoning)

(4) Presenting the list of actual player additions, subtractions and no-change makes it clear exactly how dopey that line of thinking  is.

 

Did you manage to follow that?

[AFJF]

That's probably what I miss most about Geno...he never threw incomplete passes.

[nyjunc]

I agree...sometimes he throws incomplete passes while winning football games...it's a nightmare.

it's great we are winning but if he plays like he has against better teams we won't be winning. glad you are satisfied w/ his play though.

[EM31]

nothing is being moved, last years weapons are nowhere near as good as this year.  Just look at Kerley, #2 a year ago and cannot get on the field.  plays less than 2 guys you described as "practice squad guys".  That is all we need to know.

you don't think a guy like Brandon Marshall helps w/ RZ efficiency?

You have no idea why Kerley is not on the field.  Enunya has had significant drops this year and Owusu has what, one catch?

Really.  If you are listing those as the great new weapons then I rest my case.  Please go look up how many catches, drops and yards those two have between them.

Never mind

Owusu 1 reception per game

Enunya 1.5 receptions per game

Some lethal weapons right there

[nyjunc]

That's probably what I miss most about Geno...he never threw incomplete passes.

don't mistake my criticism of Fitz for praise of geno.

[AFJF]

don't mistake my criticism of Fitz for praise of geno.

This team lost a ton of games last season by a touchdown or less while Geno was missing open receivers all day long and couldn't hit open receivers in the red zone.  In addition to that, the threw tons of back-breaking/momentum killing INTs.  Fitz has done no such thing.  With him, the Jets are winning.  I like it when the Jets win.

[AFJF]

You have no idea why Kerley is not on the field.  Enunya has had significant drops this year and Owusu has what, one catch?

Really.  If you are listing those as the great new weapons then I rest my case.  Please go look up how many catches, drops and yards those two have between them.

I'm  a big Enunwa guy, but he's had more drops than catches and agreed on Owusu, he hasn't done enough to be considered "a weapon" but the potential is there.

[nyjunc]

You have no idea why Kerley is not on the field.  Enunya has had significant drops this year and Owusu has what, one catch?

Really.  If you are listing those as the great new weapons then I rest my case.  Please go look up how many catches, drops and yards those two have between them.

Kerley isn't on the field b/c he was outplayed by others. 

 

again, Marshall alone has been the biggest difference.  he pushed our #1 down to a #2, he and others pi=ushed our #2 down to a #6.

[nyjunc]

This team lost a ton of games last season by a touchdown or less while Geno was missing open receivers all day long and couldn't hit open receivers in the red zone.  In addition to that, the threw tons of back-breaking/momentum killing INTs.  Fitz has done no such thing.  With him, the Jets are winning.  I like it when the Jets win.

the team was nothing like it is this year, remember we won 8 games w/ geno 2 years ago winning a ton of close games.

Geno didn't have half the talent to work with and our D forced 13 TOs all season, we have 13 through these 4 games.  you don't think that helps?

 

I love when the Jets win, I am happy w/ everything but we need more from Fitz as the competition gets stronger.  we would have no shot at NE next week if Fitz plays like he has through 4 games.

[nyjunc]

I'm  a big Enunwa guy, but he's had more drops than catches and agreed on Owusu, he hasn't done enough to be considered "a weapon" but the potential is there.

I love Owusu.  Enunwa has had drops but all of them(and smith) are getting open.  that's a positive sign. 

[EM31]

I'm  a big Enunwa guy, but he's had more drops than catches and agreed on Owusu, he hasn't done enough to be considered "a weapon" but the potential is there.

Enunya has three drops through four games

Let's be honest both of them may have potential the same way Clowney had potential for several years for us.  The fact is that neither of them has contributed in any meaningful way to a better red zone offense this year and so the whole better weapons argument is silly.

[AFJF]

the team was nothing like it is this year, remember we won 8 games w/ geno 2 years ago winning a ton of close games.

Geno didn't have half the talent to work with and our D forced 13 TOs all season, we have 13 through these 4 games.  you don't think that helps?

 

I love when the Jets win, I am happy w/ everything but we need more from Fitz as the competition gets stronger.  we would have no shot at NE next week if Fitz plays like he has through 4 games.

It did not matter who Geno had.  The name on the back of the jersey does not matter.  If a guy is open, a guy is open.  Geno had plenty of chances to make big plays last season but he couldn't hit the open receivers.  In his best game against the Dolphins, he just heaved up jump balls to Decker who beat up on an atrocious Miami secondary.