Ryan Fitzpatrick lifts Jets offense from wretched to good, which could make them great

[nyjunc]

It did not matter who Geno had.  The name on the back of the jersey does not matter.  If a guy is open, a guy is open.  Geno had plenty of chances to make big plays last season but he couldn't hit the open receivers.  In his best game against the Dolphins, he just heaved up jump balls to Decker who beat up on an atrocious Miami secondary.

Our OL sucked, we didn't use Ivory enough, the receivers were average at best.  we did not have guys running open all game. 

is this one of those jump balls? and you do know that all fitz does is throw jump balls down the field and hopes his receivers make plays(like marshall saved him last wee on that underthrow), right?

[AFJF]

Enunya has three drops through four games

Let's be honest both of them may have potential the same way Clowney had potential for several years for us.  The fact is that neither of them has contributed in any meaningful way to a better red zone offense this year and so the whole better weapons argument is silly.

I don't disagree that the weapons are better, but my issue is that last year's weapons were good enough to have gotten more production than they did.  Decker/Havin/Kerley/Amaro/Cumberland and a top-5 running game should have resulted in better than 13 TD/13 INT that was greatly aided by a week 17 scrimmage.

[EM31]

Kerley isn't on the field b/c he was outplayed by others. 

 

again, Marshall alone has been the biggest difference.  he pushed our #1 down to a #2, he and others pi=ushed our #2 down to a #6.

Marshall has been a difference maker this year.  No argument.  I just object when people get carried away and parlay that into this notion that the offensive skill positions are dramatically (one term used by another poster) better this year than last year because this is not true.

In fact I would go the other way and after seeing what Fitz is getting out of these weapons this year tells me that Geno should have gotten more out of the weapons who were on the team last year.  And I have zero illusions that Fitz is any better than a mid-tier QB on his best day.

[AFJF]

Our OL sucked, we didn't use Ivory enough, the receivers were average at best.  we did not have guys running open all game. 

is this one of those jump balls? and you do know that all fitz does is throw jump balls down the field and hopes his receivers make plays(like marshall saved him last wee on that underthrow), right?

That same O-line, with the exception of Carpenter, is on pace to allow 8 sacks this season.  An NFL QB can't consistenly hold on to the ball for 6 seconds and not expect to get sacked.

[AFJF]

Our OL sucked, we didn't use Ivory enough, the receivers were average at best.  we did not have guys running open all game. 

is this one of those jump balls? and you do know that all fitz does is throw jump balls down the field and hopes his receivers make plays(like marshall saved him last wee on that underthrow), right?

No, that was one where he chucked it up in the air off of his back foot and Decker went and got it.  He's an NFL quarterback, sometimes he completes passes.  I can find you some awesome youtube clips of Jamarcus Russell if  you like...he's available too you know, and has a better arm than Geno.  Should Mac go get him to start?

[EM31]

That same O-line, with the exception of Carpenter, is on pace to allow 8 sacks this season.  An NFL QB can't consistenly hold on to the ball for 6 seconds and not expect to get sacked.

That is huge.

Geno held the ball way too long while he was trying to become unconfused.

[AFJF]

That is huge.

Geno held the ball way too long while he was trying to become unconfused.

Second longest time from snap to throw in the NFL behind Rusell Wilson. 

Too many fans think that big arm + great youtube clips = franchise QB.

[Integrity28]

a clueless guy calling me stupid?  interesting

It's really not that interesting.

[EM31]

People criticize Fitz for not having the arm strength to throw the deep pass.  I have been one of them.  But none of that says the Geno can throw it either.  Geno was invariably five yards short or ten yards long on his deep attempts.  He is simply wildly inaccurate. 

Pick you poison I guess but Geno is also inaccurate on the shorter stuff.

[AFJF]

People criticize Fitz for not having the arm strength to throw the deep pass.  I have been one of them.  But none of that says the Geno can throw it either.  Geno was invariably five yards short or ten yards long on his deep attempts.  He is simply wildly inaccurate. 

Pick you poison I guess but Geno is also inaccurate on the shorter stuff.

Correct, but some fans just don't care.  They watch a QB throw the ball 50-60 yards on a rope and that's good enough for them.  Complete or not, who cares...dude throws it so far.

[nyjunc]

I don't disagree that the weapons are better, but my issue is that last year's weapons were good enough to have gotten more production than they did.  Decker/Havin/Kerley/Amaro/Cumberland and a top-5 running game should have resulted in better than 13 TD/13 INT that was greatly aided by a week 17 scrimmage.

why are you discounting Decker playing hurt most of the year?

why are you discounting the D being awful and never producing TOs?

Ivory averaged 4.1 YPC last year, so far this year 5.0

we averaged 20 PPg through 4 games last season, the D created TWO TOs in those 4 games.

we had 16 scoring drives through 4 games a year ago, avg. starting FP on them was NYJ 33 yd line

we had 17 scoring drives through 4 weeks last year, avg. starting FP wasNYJ 42 yd line

almost 10 yds less we have had to travel.

2 TOs created through 4 last year, 13 through 4 this year.

3 times started in opps territory last year, 7 times this year

 

[nyjunc]

Correct, but some fans just don't care.  They watch a QB throw the ball 50-60 yards on a rope and that's good enough for them.  Complete or not, who cares...dude throws it so far.

have you watched fitz try to heave the ball down field and pray?

[nyjunc]

That same O-line, with the exception of Carpenter, is on pace to allow 8 sacks this season.  An NFL QB can't consistenly hold on to the ball for 6 seconds and not expect to get sacked.

so carpenter isn't an addition? and the upgrade in weapons surely doesn't have anything to do w/ this, right?

 

I do agree agree Fitz has gotten rid of the ball quickly(also in a different offense w/ difference OC) but he's also turned it over at the same pace if not greater so sometimes maybe just take the sack rather than give it to the other team, right?

[AFJF]

why are you discounting Decker playing hurt most of the year?

why are you discounting the D being awful and never producing TOs?

Ivory averaged 4.1 YPC last year, so far this year 5.0

we averaged 20 PPg through 4 games last season, the D created TWO TOs in those 4 games.

we had 16 scoring drives through 4 games a year ago, avg. starting FP on them was NYJ 33 yd line

we had 17 scoring drives through 4 weeks last year, avg. starting FP wasNYJ 42 yd line

almost 10 yds less we have had to travel.

2 TOs created through 4 last year, 13 through 4 this year.

3 times started in opps territory last year, 7 times this year

 

You're so wrapped up in stats and fantasy football numbers that you're ignoring the fact that Geno Smith was missing wide open recievers on a regular basis last season, while throwing back-breaking INT's.  Both of those things are bad for teams who are trying to win football games.  I would even venture to call those things VERY bad.  Fitz is doing both of those things at a far less alarming rate which is why the Jets are 3-1. 

 

[AFJF]

so carpenter isn't an addition? and the upgrade in weapons surely doesn't have anything to do w/ this, right?

 

I do agree agree Fitz has gotten rid of the ball quickly(also in a different offense w/ difference OC) but he's also turned it over at the same pace if not greater so sometimes maybe just take the sack rather than give it to the other team, right?

Did you read what I typed?  I specifically said "with the excpetion of Carpenter" and I do not believe his addition has helped improve the play of the other four guys on the line.  They have a QB now who does not hold on to the ball for six seconds at a time so fans who thought the line was terrible last year are baffled by their vast improvement when the reality is that they were good last year too, but the QB wasn't. 

You can live with INT's as long as you're throwing TD's more frequently while completing passes at a good enough rate to sustain long drives and win the time of possession battle.

 

[nyjunc]

You're so wrapped up in stats and fantasy football numbers that you're ignoring the fact that Geno Smith was missing wide open recievers on a regular basis last season, while throwing back-breaking INT's.  Both of those things are bad for teams who are trying to win football games.  I would even venture to call those things VERY bad.  Fitz is doing both of those things at a far less alarming rate which is why the Jets are 3-1. 

 

yes, the guy pumping up fitz's comp % is telling me I care too much about fantasy #s

 

you got me, everything around the QBs was exactly the same last year as it has been this year.  the only difference on our team has been at QB

[JetBlue]

It felt like Geno would hold onto the ball forever but interesting to see it backed up by numbers.

First of all, when did Geno have Brandon Marshall and Decker to pass the ball to (Decker was also hurt most of last year)?  The article is silly; you cannot compare what the team had on offense last season to this year; plus the defense has created what, 12 or 13 turnovers resulting is awesome field position.   I am not knocking Fitz but I really wish these writers would be more honest in their evaluation.  There is no way of knowing if Geno could have been just as good if not better than Fitz has been so far.  This would have been the best team he as ever played with.  Even as a raw rookie the team some how managed to go 8-8 with him tossing the ball to Stephen Hill, David Nelson and Clyde Gates to name a few. 

BTW I forgot to mention the Gailey factor in helping QBs excel. His system was almost tailor made for Genos skill set.  

[AFJF]

yes, the guy pumping up fitz's comp % is telling me I care too much about fantasy #s

 

you got me, everything around the QBs was exactly the same last year as it has been this year.  the only difference on our team has been at QB

Why am I not surprised by the fact that you don't understand a higher completion percentage plays a role in sustaining drives and winning the time of possession battle?

Maybe if fanduel started giving points for time of possession you'd get it.

[JetBlue]

why are you discounting Decker playing hurt most of the year?

why are you discounting the D being awful and never producing TOs?

Ivory averaged 4.1 YPC last year, so far this year 5.0

we averaged 20 PPg through 4 games last season, the D created TWO TOs in those 4 games.

we had 16 scoring drives through 4 games a year ago, avg. starting FP on them was NYJ 33 yd line

we had 17 scoring drives through 4 weeks last year, avg. starting FP wasNYJ 42 yd line

almost 10 yds less we have had to travel.

2 TOs created through 4 last year, 13 through 4 this year.

3 times started in opps territory last year, 7 times this year

 

It is amazing how these facts are discounted.  I would have LOVED to see what Fitz could have done with the team we had last year.... 

[nyjunc]

Why am I not surprised by the fact that you don't understand a higher completion percentage plays a role in sustaining drives and winning the time of possession battle?

Maybe if fanduel started giving points for time of possession you'd get it.

so 13 TOs doesn't affect TOP?

again we had 2 TOs through 4 games last year, THIRTEEN this year.

TOP week 1: 28 mins, week 2 31 1/2, week 3 31 1/2.  Only week 4 was there a huge gap in TOP where we held it for 37.

last year w/ only 2 TOs: 35 mins, 29 mins, 32 mins then we had one game we were down in TOP(vs. det) 25 mins

[AFJF]

so 13 TOs doesn't affect TOP?

again we had 2 TOs through 4 games last year, THIRTEEN this year.

TOP week 1: 28 mins, week 2 31 1/2, week 3 31 1/2.  Only week 4 was there a huge gap in TOP where we held it for 37.

last year w/ only 2 TOs: 35 mins, 29 mins, 32 mins then we had one game we were down in TOP(vs. det) 25 mins

So does any of this mean that consistently moving the ball and completing passes at a higher rate does not impact time of possession?  I believe it does.

How many pick 6's have we seen from Fitz BTW?

How many times has he run the team out of FG range because he ran the wrong way while under pressure?

How many times have we seen him hold on to the ball for 5+ seconds and take a sack?

Sorry dude, Jets are 3-1, like it or not.

[AFJF]

It is amazing how these facts are discounted.  I would have LOVED to see what Fitz could have done with the team we had last year.... 

It would've been ugly...no way they would've won more than seven games.

[JetBlue]

It would've been ugly...no way they would've won more than seven games.

Well considering he has NEVER won more then 6 games in his NFL career that would have been great. 

[DoubleDown]

In my opinion, Fitzpatrick is pretty far down the list of factors in the improvement of the offensive production from last year.  Marshall, Gailey, and a defense forcing turnovers at a much higher rate have all been bigger difference makers.

[AFJF]

Well considering he has NEVER won more then 6 games in his NFL career that would have been great. 

Well considering he has NEVER won more then 6 games in his NFL career that would have been great. 

He did win six last year with a team that I believe is now on pace to win four games without him...and that was before he got hurt, so I wouldn't call it great, but to each his own.

[AFJF]

In my opinion, Fitzpatrick is pretty far down the list of factors in the improvement of the offensive production from last year.  Marshall, Gailey, and a defense forcing turnovers at a much higher rate have all been bigger difference makers.

I think having a QB who can find an open receiver in the RZ helps a lot too.

[AFJF]

Explain why Fitz has never won in the NFL and you're making excuses.

Explain why Geno has been one of the worst QB's in the NFL and you're giving reasons.

Got it.

[nyjunc]

So does any of this mean that consistently moving the ball and completing passes at a higher rate does not impact time of possession?  I believe it does.

How many pick 6's have we seen from Fitz BTW?

How many times has he run the team out of FG range because he ran the wrong way while under pressure?

How many times have we seen him hold on to the ball for 5+ seconds and take a sack?

Sorry dude, Jets are 3-1, like it or not.

drives  w/ 3 or less plays:

2014 :17

2015 :15

HUGE difference

1 pick 6 from geno, 0 from Fitz

you know Fitz has done that, right? not just w/ sacks but TOs

at Indy: 1st and 10 at Indy 35 throws INT

vs. Philly: 3rd and 5 at Philly 30, throws INT

2nd and 10 at Phi 30 throws INT

 

 

not sure how many he held onto it too long, that happens sometimes when no receivers can get open. 

[nyjunc]

 

He did win six last year with a team that I believe is now on pace to win four games without him...and that was before he got hurt, so I wouldn't call it great, but to each his own.

he was 6-6 as a starter, his backups were 3-1 including the only win over a playoff bound team they had all year

[JetBlue]

 

He did win six last year with a team that I believe is now on pace to win four games without him...and that was before he got hurt, so I wouldn't call it great, but to each his own.

I was actually being facetious because I doubt he would have won more than 4 or 5 games with this team last year.  No Decker for most of the year, no arm to get the ball down the field to Harvin (who came in midway through the season), no Brandon Marshall... it would have been very ugly.  Who knows maybe he would have built better chemistry with Amaro... 

[nyjunc]

I think having a QB who can find an open receiver in the RZ helps a lot too.

you don't think having a major RZ threat helps? My guess is Marshall would have helped us last year too but it's just a guess.

[AFJF]

drives  w/ 3 or less plays:

2014 :17

2015 :15

HUGE difference

1 pick 6 from geno, 0 from Fitz

you know Fitz has done that, right? not just w/ sacks but TOs

at Indy: 1st and 10 at Indy 35 throws INT

vs. Philly: 3rd and 5 at Philly 30, throws INT

2nd and 10 at Phi 30 throws INT

 

 

not sure how many he held onto it too long, that happens sometimes when no receivers can get open. 

I don't worry much about the QB when he throws a catchable pass that goes through a receiver's hands and in to the hands of a defender but I know you'll take any ammo you can get to try to rip Fitz.

[AFJF]

you don't think having a major RZ threat helps? My guess is Marshall would have helped us last year too but it's just a guess.

Pretty wild guess with Geno throwing the football.

[DoubleDown]

I think having a QB who can find an open receiver in the RZ helps a lot too.

It also helps to have an offensive coordinator who can scheme players open and a target who can win jump balls and out-muscle defenders.  How many fades or back shoulder throws have the Jets run in years past?  The Jets have finally caught up to what works in today's NFL.

Mornhinweg and a lack of a physical #1 target were huge factors in our red zone struggles the past couple of years.

[nyjunc]

I don't worry much about the QB when he throws a catchable pass that goes through a receiver's hands and in to the hands of a defender but I know you'll take any ammo you can get to try to rip Fitz.

how many times did that happen? ONCE?  how many has he missed? how many have the receivers had to make great catches to bring them in even though they had their defenders beat?