Empire State Mafia: Game Thread

[CTM]

1 hour ago, Leelou said:

Yeah, but why start the day out that way? Why not try to get someone else lynched first? 

wait, didn't that lead to spoot and brett semi vetting one another? (an brett's logic for being on spoot to being with was inconsistant with his tracker claims as you and I pointed out). me thinks they hoped whichever one didn' get lynched would be fairly well vetted till end game.

[Leelou]

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

JIF hasn't posted in the at since arriving in the 3 rd world country sh*thole.  I don't pay attention to nothing and Spoot missed it.  Lynch me and move on.  Best play I can make as town right now.  

If you think Calder is scum, why not Calder?

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, CTM said:

not lynching you blubber butt

Why not?  Lynch me.  I will flip town Mason.  Spoot gets another night action.  Me or JIF is the play.  

[Leelou]

Just now, CTM said:

wait, didn't that lead to spoot and brett semi vetting one another? (an brett's logic for being on spoot to being with was inconsistant with his tracker claims as you and I pointed out). me thinks they hoped whichever one didn' get lynched would be fairly well vetted till end game.

Yes, but why bother with the whole mason thing if he's scum with JiF and Crusher? Why not just let Spoot go down and Brett ride free?

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Whatever dude I'm throwing sh*t out there to see if it sticks and gauge reactions. I still can't make heads or tails of this cluster**** game.

Meh, lynch me or JIF and get answers

[CTM]

1 hour ago, Leelou said:

Agreed, but Calder really hasn't done much so far this game, I really can't remember much from AVM and CTM chirps in every so often. Do you feel they are all town? 

I have the same amount of posts as you toots

[Leelou]

4 minutes ago, CTM said:

I have the same amount of posts as you toots

You're down near the bottom due to PoE if the claimed masons are all town. I'm just trying to see what everyone is thinking. 

[CTM]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

Calder is null.

AVM avoided me D1, but engaged JIF and cut him down handily. Since then, he's been posting oddball things like "wan't wombat's friend named fog?" and dumb sh*t like that.

CTM was playing a pretty hands-on role for town guidance. Now he's gone, but the things that stick out to me are him calling Crusher a bomb, helping Brett when I was after him, shifting the lynch from Spoot to Lily. Been trying to figure the motives attached to the last one... not sure it's a tell, so to speak.

I look at it like this though:

• if the mason trio is town, then CTM, AVM and Calder are scum
• if the mason trio is mixed, then I'd guess Crusher, CTM, AVM are scum
• if there is no mason trio, then all 3 of them are scum and all we're doing is wifom'ing this into a situation that makes them think they are playing well

All of those scenarios require vetting whether or not they are masons at all. 

I think Crusher's martyr act, and the related chirp from CTM that Crusher is a bomb, make Crusher the most likely to be scum in the group. If he's not, then he should be happy we picked him to lynch so we could vet the other two nincompoops.

Vote Crusher

I will also say this, Crusher hit some scum tells already for me. AVM and CTM too. If I were playing purely by my gut, I'd just follow it. I'm trying to consider the logic of the situations we've been presented with too though... 

1) I still think crusher is a bomb, he was offering himself up to die in place of spoot when the dude had 2 votes on him,. tard

2) I am the person that initially cut down brett's claim and was all ready to lynch him until Spoot/Jif/Crusher came in with the 2 stooges routine

3) I never shifted it from spoot to lilly, in fact I almost moved it back to spoot. For this to even be a thing, you have to think spoot is scum. If spoot is town it means nothing. Yet you are FOS'ing about it

4) Why do you keep saying there is 5 scum?

My personal opinion is that Ape is dumb town and that jif/crusher/spoot are the last scum.  We should 100% be lynching from there. My preference would be Jif btu I have no idea where the vote count is

 

[CTM]

59 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Quick thought 

Crusher's been fence sitting

Jifs been fear mongering

what if Spoot is actually town and JiF/Crusher some type of ursurper/scum/cult type team?

and he hammered his scum tells.. ready to vote teh jif

[CTM]

51 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

It wavers...

 

...just like Verb's gender*

 

BOOM!!

fixed

[CTM]

12 minutes ago, Leelou said:

Yes, but why bother with the whole mason thing if he's scum with JiF and Crusher? Why not just let Spoot go down and Brett ride free?

Right which is why my initial thought was that spoot was some kind of scum PR they were protecting. 

[CTM]

14 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Why not?  Lynch me.  I will flip town Mason.  Spoot gets another night action.  Me or JIF is the play.  

You've been offering to be lynched for too long, on the off chance you are scum bomb I'd guess you get to take out 2 townies. Just not interested in that when i think we can safely lynch Jif and get the same damn result

vote Jif

[CTM]

8 minutes ago, Leelou said:

You're down near the bottom due to PoE if the claimed masons are all town. I'm just trying to see what everyone is thinking. 

k, but don't make sh*t up

 

[CTM]

my gut still says our masons are our remaining scum team. We can safely lynch the twink who has probably been the most scummiest and isn't claiming a power role.. If/when jif flips scum, spoot tomorrow.

[AVM]

2 hours ago, Leelou said:

Talk me through why Brett would want to lead a lynch on a teammate after being down one already?

A lot of this doesn't really fit one way or another.  The mixing up of the roles (which yes, even Pac once famously did with cop/doc and got himself killed), watching you, missing a submission, etc.

2 hours ago, Leelou said:

Yeah, but why start the day out that way? Why not try to get someone else lynched first? 

This is a good point...can't remember how day started off though.  I remember me and JiF going at each other, that's about it.

2 hours ago, HessStation said:

Seems like a simple buss. How do you forget to put in a NA w two teamnates when the same teamnates submitted the NA for you the night before.

Eh.

2 hours ago, Leelou said:

If you reread the whole of Day 2, JiF said he was mistaken when he read the QT and that Spoot did submit, which was then confirmed by Crusher and Spoot. 

Yeah...was the implication that they could have submitted for him?

1 hour ago, Spoot-Face said:

Keeps? How many times? I only remember once. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Didn't you do so to start today?  Pretty sure that's why I drug out the quotes with Lily lol

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

Are you willing to vote Crusher in order to vet yourself and JIF?

The 3 of you have gone all-in on defending yourselves, another part of how bad you've played if town, so nobody has a clue who each of you actually think is scum. 
 

How about it? You want to scum hunt a little?

They've almost constantly said they'd vote whoever (JiF was even on Spoot when he was at L-1, IIRC), fwiw.

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

Also, here is the level to which JIF, Crusher and Spoot are stupid and or lying.

He's a Watcher with mason partners that get to see his results in the QT directly from the mod.

If that's the case, given that Spoot is supposedly a town power role, he should be watching himself, so that if scum NK's him, his mason partners see the result. Even if the result wouldn't be shared, if Leelou protected him, he'd live and see that Leelou and scum targeted him.

Nothing adds up about anything they are saying or doing.

If they are town, and have made these mistakes...this doesn't seem like too far a stretch for them to not think of collectively.

1 hour ago, Spoot-Face said:

That's something that I seriously considered last night (as you'll eventually see in the QT). I didn't see an answer from Crusher or JiF before I went to bed, so I didn't submit anything.

This, however, seems opportunistic.

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, HessStation said:

All arrows are pointing towards scum cluster**** fwiw.

catching up from here... but yes

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, HessStation said:

Quick thought 

Crusher's been fence sitting

Jifs been fear mongering

what if Spoot is actually town and JiF/Crusher some type of ursurper/scum/cult type team?

One step at a time, lol. I've consider this too though.

1 hour ago, Spoot-Face said:

Remember, I did watch Decker N2 and caught Brett visiting him with Leelou protecting.

No, you say you did. If you are on scum with Brett, then you'd be able to support your claim by knowing what he did. Or spinning a result from whatever he may have done that failed. Kind of convenient that Brett, the one we were obviously going to lynch after Lily, was also the scum that you saw visit Leelou. Nobody new incriminated.

1 hour ago, HessStation said:

JiF was actually voting Spoot most of that dat Lily Lynch 

He was.

[Spoot-Face]

8 minutes ago, AVM said:

Didn't you do so to start today?  Pretty sure that's why I drug out the quotes with Lily lol

Nope. I double checked. Try again.

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, HessStation said:

Game play wise the only one coming off even a little town out of the three is Spoot atp.

eh, just proves you can have 5 games of experience and be better at this than both Crusher and JIF

[Spoot-Face]

1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

No, you say you did. If you are on scum with Brett, then you'd be able to support your claim by knowing what he did. Or spinning a result from whatever he may have done that failed. Kind of convenient that Brett, the one we were obviously going to lynch after Lily, was also the scum that you saw visit Leelou. Nobody new incriminated.

Yes, I said I did. Time will tell that I'm telling the truth.

[Spoot-Face]

1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

eh, just proves you can have 5 games of experience and be better at this than both Crusher and JIF

lol

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, Spoot-Face said:

Apparently. At least you're cleared.

May Lily rest in peace.

Are you implying that decker shouldn't be cleared?

1 hour ago, Leelou said:

Same, I feel like I'm going round and round in my thinking here. Help me Hess, you're my only hope. 

You are not alone.

1 hour ago, CTM said:

I took everyone from Spoot to Lilly? I don't think so bub, what sh*t are you selling

Did you not saying spoot wouldn't self vote as town, and then everyone moved to Lily after that? Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't care, I'm shouting into a ******* echo chamber because nobody else is plugged in, except Leelou and Hess.

1 hour ago, CTM said:

No CTM was voting brett but curious why you lied.

Keep going bub

When we had competing trains between Lily and Spoot? Yea? You were pretty active talking through the 2 of them with me, in fact that convo is what moved us off my Brett case and onto those competing trains.... but maybe you knew enough not to take your vote off Brett. Is that what you're saying here?

[Spoot-Face]

1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

Are you implying that decker shouldn't be cleared?

*Sigh*

No.

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, CTM said:

You delivered brett? LMAO. Brett was delivered the minute we lynched lilly. trying to use this as town cred for spoot is as grotesque as jif's anal fissures

This. LOL

1 hour ago, CTM said:

1) I don't buy that I shifted people from Lilly to Brett

2) I see you trying to tie me and spoot together though, considering I was all over him for his botched reveal.. that is pretty stupid

3) I said it was unlikely he would self vote as first time scum, i don't know what you mean by saying he wouldn't self vote as town

I didn't say you shifted people from Lily to Brett. I said you shifted people from Spoot to Lily. That's what I feel happened, as I made a note of it. Trust me, if JIF, Crush and Spoot are all town, I'll find the sequence and we'll talk about it more when I'm getting you lynched. For now, consider it me talking out alternate possibilities IF these other dopes are not lying.

Not so much trying to tie you to Spoot, I said I didn't understand why you'd want to move people from Spoot to Lily. I'm trying not to overlook anything. Both spoot and lily claimed watcher and tracker, so if they are both telling the truth, which they could very well be, then there's no scum motives at all for you in that play. I'm trying to recall how we got from Brett to spoot, I feel like it was crusher blurting out spoots reveal.... is that right?

Admittedly, I couldn't find exactly what you said, but the bold is correct. I was misquoting you with the latter statement. I don't agree with the bold, btw. But that doesn't matter, I did misquote you.

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, deckerfan said:

Oh, I just remember him saying in this thread that there are no cults. I guess third party makes sense. People were SK hunting earlier but then there were all the nights with no casualties.

SK being in the game was a conclusion reached on N1 because only scum got shot. 

After the lack of deaths, it's more likely that it was a 1-time vigilante shot... or there's a vigilante that can holster... or scum is JIF, Crusher, Spoot and Brett and they shot Pac for being a piece of crap teammate.

 

[AVM]

1 hour ago, HessStation said:

Feels like I'm drowning in thoughts here

What's your gut?

1 hour ago, Leelou said:

I'm also sayin' it'd be easy for you to "watch me" since I didn't die and you'd know what I was doing. The only reason why I could believe that I was watched was 80's answer matched what would happen if you did watch me and you saying that you saw no one visit me. 

Could just as easily see this being asked to confirm in the QT.  Or 80 just answering it because it came up -- he's done this a few times now, it seems.

1 hour ago, Spoot-Face said:

Only I can submit the NA, so your skepticism is a moot point.

Okay -- former point retracted

1 hour ago, HessStation said:

@80 can you clarify what you mean by no cults? 

...what are you getting at?

59 minutes ago, CTM said:

not lynching you blubber butt

Why?

56 minutes ago, Leelou said:

AVM, come talk to me. 

Hello dear.  Let's talk.

The two running theories are all 3 masons (which seems almost too easy) or none of the masons, which leaves like...4 of us or so that haven't claimed?  Ape's now on the split mason team...what are your thoughts on a split team?  I remember you linked the game 80 did so...but aside from that, what do you think?

Crusher has offered himself up 3-4 times now it seems.  JiF has basically just scoffed at the whole game for days, and Spoot has been all over the place.  Did JiF ever offer himself up?  I know Ape has said he has no interest in lynching JiF but he still flat out lied on D1 about me, then tried to spin it as me twisting his words or some nonsense.  Since then it's just been "omg you guys are soooooo stupid"

 

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, CTM said:

not lynching you blubber butt

Still?

1 hour ago, CTM said:

wait, didn't that lead to spoot and brett semi vetting one another? (an brett's logic for being on spoot to being with was inconsistant with his tracker claims as you and I pointed out). me thinks they hoped whichever one didn' get lynched would be fairly well vetted till end game.

Alright, if you havne't gone back to re-read this spot yet, then I'll do it.

1 hour ago, Leelou said:

Yes, but why bother with the whole mason thing if he's scum with JiF and Crusher? Why not just let Spoot go down and Brett ride free?

Well, they sort of botched the inclusion of Spoot in the mason thing. There's no good answer for speculating why they'd be stupid.

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, CTM said:

1) I still think crusher is a bomb, he was offering himself up to die in place of spoot when the dude had 2 votes on him,. tard

2) I am the person that initially cut down brett's claim and was all ready to lynch him until Spoot/Jif/Crusher came in with the 2 stooges routine

3) I never shifted it from spoot to lilly, in fact I almost moved it back to spoot. For this to even be a thing, you have to think spoot is scum. If spoot is town it means nothing. Yet you are FOS'ing about it

4) Why do you keep saying there is 5 scum?

My personal opinion is that Ape is dumb town and that jif/crusher/spoot are the last scum.  We should 100% be lynching from there. My preference would be Jif btu I have no idea where the vote count is

 

1. true, but refusing to lynch him doesn't make sense - town has numbers now, we should let someone vanilla hammer - or have JIF hammer him.

2. okay, will see this on re-read

3. this too, and already address... just trying not to miss anything

4. games are usually 1/3 scum, right? 15 players = 5 scum (I'm already bought into the idea that there is no SK)

 

[AVM]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Why not?  Lynch me.  I will flip town Mason.  Spoot gets another night action.  Me or JIF is the play.  

Has JiF ever offered to be the option?  I know you have many times...

55 minutes ago, CTM said:

You've been offering to be lynched for too long, on the off chance you are scum bomb I'd guess you get to take out 2 townies. Just not interested in that when i think we can safely lynch Jif and get the same damn result

vote Jif

Really want to go here.

17 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

Nope. I double checked. Try again.

I saw, sorry -- been catching up slowly.  unvote

I really want to believe you...honestly the more cases are made that you aren't town, it's believable.  Every time you defend yourself, though....lol

[Integrity28]

28 minutes ago, AVM said:

A lot of this doesn't really fit one way or another.  The mixing up of the roles (which yes, even Pac once famously did with cop/doc and got himself killed), watching you, missing a submission, etc.

This is a good point...can't remember how day started off though.  I remember me and JiF going at each other, that's about it.

Eh.

Yeah...was the implication that they could have submitted for him?

Didn't you do so to start today?  Pretty sure that's why I drug out the quotes with Lily lol

They've almost constantly said they'd vote whoever (JiF was even on Spoot when he was at L-1, IIRC), fwiw.

If they are town, and have made these mistakes...this doesn't seem like too far a stretch for them to not think of collectively.

This, however, seems opportunistic.

Oh look, you call AVM out for blabber posts since D1, and he gives you a courtesy wall of text.

[Integrity28]

10 minutes ago, AVM said:

I know Ape has said he has no interest in lynching JiF but he still flat out lied on D1 about me, then tried to spin it as me twisting his words or some nonsense.  Since then it's just been "omg you guys are soooooo stupid"

 

To be clear, JIF is hitting every scum tell he has. He has been since D1. Crusher did on D2. I'm not unwilling to vote JIF, I just don't view him as the first one worth killing. It's a respect thing. I have none for him... LOL

[Spoot-Face]

3 minutes ago, AVM said:

I really want to believe you

I'm the alien conspiracy to your Fox Mulder.

[AVM]

5 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Still?

Alright, if you havne't gone back to re-read this spot yet, then I'll do it.

Well, they sort of botched the inclusion of Spoot in the mason thing. There's no good answer for speculating why they'd be stupid.

They did...but JiF did have a solid point with the breadcrumb.

3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

1. true, but refusing to lynch him doesn't make sense - town has numbers now, we should let someone vanilla hammer - or have JIF hammer him.

2. okay, will see this on re-read

3. this too, and already address... just trying not to miss anything

4. games are usually 1/3 scum, right? 15 players = 5 scum (I'm already bought into the idea that there is no SK)

 

I've always thought 1/4 scum is where you start, and you adjust up and down from a "basic" game.  If there were to be two mason teams with two power roles, plus at least a doc...1/3 could be reasonable.  No reason to believe there is a roleblocker or any insane scum powers and I don't know the theme to know if there is something potentially hidden (if the mason group were scum and they were indeed trying to keep Spoot alive, for example.

[Integrity28]

On 3/30/2016 at 2:32 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

D2 has begun.  With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

 

On 3/30/2016 at 3:28 PM, Integrity28 said:

Alright, well... Vote Brett

 

On 3/30/2016 at 3:37 PM, JiF said:

Yep.  And that post was tardville, there are literally 20 things that could have happened last night and there is no order of probability.

What it looked like was a classic scum tell right after the night phase with the "jeez guys, why would scum do that"  - now let me throw out wild theories.

I'm down for him or AVM.

 

 

On 3/30/2016 at 3:39 PM, JiF said:

Interesting that AVM is going for Brett.  I'll go there.

Vote AVM

Gross.

On 3/30/2016 at 3:43 PM, AVM said:

Okay, idk wtf I'm talking about regarding anything.

unvote

AVM had voted Brett, but then unvoted him - not really sure I understand why. 

On 3/30/2016 at 4:00 PM, CTM said:

 

100%, the panocha did the same thing to Jif and I as scum a few games back. But what is this it's obvious he was dirty sh*t? Just cause he was MIA?

This one poking around my use of the term "obvious". Not sure why.

On 3/30/2016 at 4:02 PM, Integrity28 said:

His post right around the time he got replaced. It was obvious when he opened his mouth. I would have shot him, if I had the ability. Alas, I cannot take credit for it.

 

On 3/30/2016 at 4:05 PM, CTM said:

interesting, I did not notice that but if you did..

 

anyway vote Brett

I didn't like his post scene post at all

 

On 3/30/2016 at 4:22 PM, The Crusher said:

...And he is back.  vote ape

This was the vote Crusher dropped on me, he quoted me, then proceeded to make his "ape's new town meta turned into old town meta = scum" case, but then scrambled away to golden corral when i asked him to explain that rationale.

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, CTM said:

4) Why do you keep saying there is 5 scum?

 

About this... if YOU truly think all 3 of spoot, jif and crusher are scum, then you are ALSO suggesting there are 5 scum... since Pac and Brett are known scum. 

So, if you think there are less than 5 scum, then it's time to revisit the mason scum meltdown theory. No?