Sperm Edwards Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 19 minutes ago, win4ever said: Yeah, and after the first failure, it's usually a team with no support system and a dearth of talent at QB that picks up the player, so the same thing repeats itself most times. I think QBs can be saved, but it's seldom we see it happen. If a team has a good team around the QB position, they usually go for more certain options instead of the risks (ala why both Denver and Jets passed on RGIII even though he offered the most upside) because they would rather be good than take the chance of being great at the risk of being horrible. I think in most cases, guys sitting have to do with adjustments and learning the systems because all the way down to high school level, these kids are running spread offenses. And these offenses are based on mismatches. All these spread teams recruit high speed guys, and bet that their 4 or 5 speedy WRs can beat the defense's 4 or 5 speedy CBs because the offense has the advantage in knowing where the ball is going. It doesn't work quite as well in the NFL because you can't just recruit like that, and the defense is just as fast anyway. So they have to rely on more time proved strategies to learn QB skills, read defenses, get the timing down, etc I don't want to equate it to Madden, but I think the transitional level thinking applies. Playing beginners and people that aren't that good, you ca go 5 wide, shotgun, spread out the offense and call similar plays and get away with it. You can run a very limited playbook based on spread formations that the defense can't adjust to, rinse and repeat. As the players you face get tougher, you can't do this anymore, and now you have to see how the defense is shading, if the guy blitzes on certain downs from certain spots, different coverage packages, where the LBs are going, etc. It's obviously not the same as the NFL, but there is a change in philosophy. Although, I hate using Madden examples because it's a video game, and people find loopholes in the system, like putting Dez Bryant at TE a few years ago, or going with a Wide 9 defense that blitzes everyone with man coverage on the outside. I just think the idea of having easy repeatable play-calling to actually thinking out there is a drastic change that mirrors real life in some cases. Yeah, weapons are always the best for a QB because it completely changes the way a defense approaches the game. If they know there is Brandon Marshall out there, they are going out of their way to focus attention on him, leaving Decker with a good matchup or the TE or the 3rd WR. Getting Cooper was probably the best thing that happened to Derrick Carr in Oakland, since he's a match-up nightmare. So is Allen Robinson, just opens up so many different avenues. The Jets went completely away from protecting their QBs with talent, and once Holmes got injured, we were basically running guys who were couch potatoes the week before. I think that's what they are trying to do with the Browns now, just draft as many WRs as possible, hope 1 or 2 hit, and then have those weapons for a QB they pick in the future (although I have no idea why they didn't pick Doctson). I think we were an ideal situation for a QB to come and revive his career. I actually thought we would sign RGIII because there is a decent line (The line is susceptible, but Ferguson was horrible last year, so as long as Clady stays healthy, it should be an upgrade), very good WR core, good RB that can catch out of the backfield. RGIII is also a great example you bring up because when it's someone that high profile, it will take years before the collective pro football minds say, ok enough's enough; this will never work with this kid. But how much time, comparatively, was invested in trying to develop & give another shot to Andre Woodson? Meanwhile if he was drafted a round or two earlier, and someone put him out there right away, would some claim that's what ruined him? Probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
win4ever Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: RGIII is also a great example you bring up because when it's someone that high profile, it will take years before the collective pro football minds say, ok enough's enough; this will never work with this kid. But how much time, comparatively, was invested in trying to develop & give another shot to Andre Woodson? Meanwhile if he was drafted a round or two earlier, and someone put him out there right away, would some claim that's what ruined him? Probably. I think RGIII got too much publicity, he was already a star before he did anything, and he really cared too much about his brand than anything else. Once his explosiveness was gone, he wasn't the same QB, but he refused to change because an "OK to decent" pocket QB doesn't fit his image style. He needed to make highlight runs or highlight deep passes. He would get opportunities to start but yeah a lower draft position means a lack of good opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I don't believe you can ruin a Qb. It's a cop out mostly used by Sanchez fans. But for the most part a Qb is better off learning how to run an offense and read defenses before he starts. A few years back the trend was to start rookie Qbs, you know around the time Luck and RG3 were drafted. And that could have been one of the reasons the Jets started Geno after Mark was injured. As for Dominick he wasn't a good GM and one of the reasons he was fired was for trading for Revis which obviously didn't work out for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 13 hours ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said: Next we need to hear from Matt Millen on building a team and WR drafting strategy Even Joe Montana was groomed, he played early but sparingly, as Walsh built his confidence, putting him in situations to succeed, Montana's book provides a good read on this subject, I think it was just a chapter but it was insightfull They all have the physical skills (hence getting drafted), I think it comes down to decision making and confidence, some start out with better vision and more confidence and start right away (agree that is preferred) but some need time and that's ok too since once they start to doubt themselves, it's over. (I think teams/coaches can ruin careers by putting these kids in no-win situations and breaking their confidence) I also think the new CBA has ruined camp and the preseason, does not seem like there is enough working time to get the players ready What about Young? This is Tampa Bay, the team that dumped Steve Young after two 2-14 seasons, 3-16 in starts, 11 TDs, 21 INTs and declared him a major bust. Young backed up Montana for 4 years and now they're both in Canton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 19 hours ago, jetrider said: What about Young? This is Tampa Bay, the team that dumped Steve Young after two 2-14 seasons, 3-16 in starts, 11 TDs, 21 INTs and declared him a major bust. Young backed up Montana for 4 years and now they're both in Canton. Never happened. That surely would have ruined a young QB. Or a Young QB, in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 15 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: Never happened. That surely would have ruined a young QB. Or a Young QB, in this instance. What never happened? Sarcasm (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brown Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 On 5/12/2016 at 10:52 AM, Jet Nut said: Johnny Unitas failed in his first attempts. Was on Pittsburg and was cut. Ummm why quotes facts..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 5 hours ago, jetrider said: What never happened? Sarcasm (?) Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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