Jets Passing Offense Film Review – Week 4 (Seahawks) Bad Magic

[Charlie Brown]

8 hours ago, win4ever said:

Besides the super stars, I can't really think of any situation where a middle of the road at best QB wouldn't be benched or very close to being benched.  Remember in 2014, people clamoring to bench Geno Smith after a 1-3 start?  

Geno's stats after 4 games (Result 1-3)

60% completion rate

230 yards/game

4 TDs

5 INT

75,1 QB rating

6.78 Y/A

----- 

Fitzpatrick

55.8%

253 yards/game

4 TD

10 INT

57,6 rating

6.57 Y/A

Geno got benched in the next game for Vick,  Yet, it's blasphemous to talk about a Fitzpatrick benching.  

Of course you are 100% correct. 

People say Brady, Manning, Nathmath etc.  and say those had bad games.  But as you imply the idea of putting Fitz in that category is nuts. Fitz has been in the league over 10 years and this is how he plays.  The idea that we should be comparing him to Elite play is beyond ridiculous and Bowles if doesn't get that quick will be the second HC fired because of Fitz' play.  

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, southparkcpa said:

Agreed. In summary, Bowles is NOT a professive thinker in terms of personnel or adjustments.  Nor was REX. he simply though that Fitz would get better, he would coach better and 10 games should be achievable.  He never considered that Fitz winning 10 games was a HUGE aberration.  I was prepared to NOT sign FITZ, let Geno start and put Petty in the minute Geno shows any sign of lack of maturity.

If and when that happened, Cut Geno on the spot.  

Id rather have the Mike Singletary attitude of "Ill play with 10 guys before I let a poor attitude on my team".

 

 

 

Well you had me until the last line, lol. Singletary is a neanderthal. He'd have a temper tantrum and smash & break things when things didn't go his way. Plus I don't think the problem with Fitzpatrick is attitude and doubt you think so either. If anyone has the attitude problem it's Geno, which would negate any Singletary II from employing your preferred course of action. 

For a good amount of time, fans gave Bowles the benefit of the doubt with his quiet demeanor, figuring it just meant he wasn't the verbal boaster his predecessor was. Mostly because we were winning games and presumed his coaching was a major reason why. It's really starting to look like he says so little because he has little to add to a discussion. I'm exaggerating, of course, but it does seem like he needs a whole private meeting & discussion with all his coaches before coming up with a change in direction, and in the middle of a game of course there isn't time for that.

How can a guy literally admit publicly he just meets with his OC on Tuesdays and then lets Gailey just do his thing without the HC through gameday. Worse than admitting it, which is just dumb, what's so terrible is that it's actually what was (and maybe still is) going on. Given that much hands-off treatment of the offense, it likely means he's not even having much of a discussion with Gailey so much as it's Gailey telling him what he's going to do. Maybe Bowles throws in airheaded comments like wanting to run it more, but nothing of substance to suggest how they do it with greater success.

Whatever. I'm just ranting.

[August]

4 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Good teams dont bow to that pressure.  If that were true Favre would not have been forced out. I simply dont see teams with multiple SB wins behaving the way the JETS have. Tebow, REX, etc....

You're correct but Woody always caves to media and fan pressure. He's self conscious about it. I would have either went with Geno and Petty and signed Brian Hoyer as a veteran insurance policy and moved on from Fitzpatrick. 

[phill1c]

I'm not sure Woody caved to media here. I think Todd Bowles did. After all, Gailey had Smith as the starter originally, "no question".

And I totally agree: Smith has issues with recognizing defenses. But, really, many of the issues Smith had were the result of poor OL, who couldn't hold blocks in obvious passing situations--something that may still be an issue--and poor receiving targets, which seems like much less of an issue.

What I see with Smith is what I think happened to Sanchez here: too worried about bad plays instead of trying to make good plays. A lot of that has to do with the fan treatment. So, it's unclear if that will ever be fixed here. The amount of arguments against him were so absurd: "he's a great practice player but in games..." "we've seen what he can do..." "Fitz is so clearly better..." "Fitz is the smarter QB.."  etc.

I think ANY QB can improve, given experience. But the haters are all about not even considering that notion. And, to side with Fitzpatrick, based on completely FALSE premise of him reading defenses better, must rankle Smith. I know it rankled me.

Anyway, I'm really glad this thread exists. It really reveals the absurdly hateful mindset of the Smith haters, who, not surprisingly, have no comments on this thread.

[win4ever]

8 hours ago, Jetdawgg said:

Win4ever, your intellect shows?

Thanks, I did browse through a Harvard brochure back in high school, so it's expected.  

7 hours ago, YankeeJet22 said:

Great job Win.  If Ryan Fitzpatrick were playing somewhere else and sucking as usual, we all would be wondering how he even has a job in this league, and laughing at his incompetent teams hierarchy.  He is just not any good.

If he was playing anywhere else, I'd stay as quiet as heck and pray they wouldn't bench him.  

6 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The idea that they were comfortable playing 1 safety deep to cover two deep routes on opposite sides of the field simultaneously - which is a sure TD vs an average QB - and weren't made to pay for it because one of those routes isn't being run by Brandon Marshall or Eric Decker, is sickening. "Here. Here's an easy TD deep because we know you won't even look because you'll be locked in on Marshall's/Forte's/Powell's short or intermediate route." 

I knew he was locking in on one target all last year (we merely played a disproportionate amount of easy matchups for him and mostly kept him out of late, multiple-score, catch-up situations where his handicap is magnified). Also when passes are completed for first downs to a stud WR, the in-game replays only rarely show someone else open for an even bigger play. What I didn't know without the coach's film was just how many people were open for TDs while he locks in on only his first read right from the snap. 

He may be able to identify switching from Marshall being his first read to Decker at the line (or from either of them to D.Smith or Enunwa or whomever), based on what the D is showing pre-snap, but once the ball is snapped it's a strain to prove he's dramatically better than a rookie who only has 2 route trees truly memorized cold for a given play (with one of the two being his checkdown option). I'm amazed at not just the big plays he didn't take advantage of, since I'm sure every QB misses some, but rather & more importantly that he should have known they'd be there from before the snap (or at the latest, first thing to see what the safeties are doing - and not doing - as he's merely 1 step into his dropback).

Even Marshall running those routes didn't matter because Fitz just couldn't hit the deep pass at all. 

Sometimes I understand that it's a quick pass system and it's hard to go through progressions, but I try to break down what the defense is showing pre-snap as well to see if the read was elsewhere to begin with.  For example, the first one, where it's completion to Enunwa, the pre-snap clearly indicates zone coverage with a single high safety, and you have two deep routes going with Marshall/Peake from the same side.  You have to know one is going to be open as the deep safety can't cover both because Peake is running in the middle and cutting.  It's just such a bad read.  

If we didn't have Marshall/Decker, this would be one of the worst offenses in Jets history because Fitz can't overcome even match ups.  

6 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Buffalo fans I know here in Charlotte are laughing their collective arses off. they clearly knew this would happen. So did I,  Joewilly and a few others. Fitz winning percentage is lower than 20 percent against teams above 500.

Yeah, it wasn't too surprising.  Even the tapes last year showed the good breaks and all, but not a lot of people care at times.  

5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

As bad as this is - and it's bad - what's even worse is the coaching staff didn't pressure the GM into finding another starting at QB, and not just some project that needs to relearn all his reinforced bad mechanics from his two most recent college seasons, and relearn them well enough to make them 2nd nature, which could take the entirety of his first 2 NFL seasons if we're incredibly lucky.  On the contrary, the HC got up on that podium after his week 17 meltdown and anointed him the 2016 starter even before he was under contract.

It suggests they are either oblivious to or willfully ignorant of how bad their own QB situation was, and what's worse is this is before they were aware of any tangible improvement from Petty (if such improvement itself isn't just the easy preseason making another stiff look good).

This team has a lot of problems - obviously more than just Fitzpatrick - but it's indicative of some coaching and FO issues. Where would this team have been last year if Chicago didn't desperately want to rid themselves of Brandon Marshall and 4 of our opponents (Indy, Wash, Dallas, NE 2) didn't have serious, significant injury setbacks when we played them? Those wins in 2015, enjoyable but ultimately useless as they were, may have seriously set back this franchise unfortunately. They kept the idea of trading up for Wentz too expensive for our GM to bite, and led to a too-raw prospect to take over for Fitzpatrick, since no sense of new-QB urgency seemed present. 

There's one actual advantage in not having a good starting QB, but having a deadly trio of WRs (not even including the 3 puppies, which becomes 4 when D.Smith comes off PUP week 7), plus a duo of dangerous veteran passcatchers out of the backfield (both of whom pick up blitzes with the best of them). It's that a young QB can be put out there without serious worries about wasting a superbowl opportunity, without youngster having to learn the job throwing to the likes of David Nelson, Clyde Gates, Jeff Cumberland, Stephen Hill, Chansi Stuckey, post-contract Holmes, and non-receiving weapons out of the backfield like T.Jones, Greene, or Ivory.

What an amazing opportunity for a young QB prospect with actual talent, and we're wasting it on Ryan Fitzpatrick. Geno should have been let go so Petty could be given a legit shot with more than just a month left in the season, and he should have been competing for #2 pecking order placement with a 2016 rookie instead of drafting a major project like Hackenberg who amazingly isn't even viable as a #3. By the time Hackenberg is ready to take the field as a starter for the first time (should that day actually ever come), both Marshall & Decker could be off the team (they'll both certainly be worse), Forte will be too old to be effective, and maybe Powell will have lost his current burst as well. Just a waste.

I think Bowles doesn't want to admit fault here after backing up Fitz all through the off-season.  He basically threw Geno under the bus in the offseason, and now he wants to wait as long as possible to go back on that decision.   

I would love to see any young QB get a shot, because the collection of talent around the QB is actually quite good.  Yeah, it's just a bad cycle, because by then I'm sure we'll find another offensive coordinator who runs ground and pound because the spread didn't obviously work.  

4 hours ago, August said:

Hindsight is 20/20 but bringing back Fitzpatrick was a PR move. The media and the fanbase put heavy pressure on to the team to re-sign him. Bringing him back made sense, he was the starting QB of the team that won 10 games the year before. He scored 31 TD's, he played well for the most part, the fans love him, the team love him. It made sense. I may not have liked how the team went about bringing him back and the headache and distraction that it caused. 

The problem lies with how they've handled him this year. When a guy throws 9 INT's in 2 games he should feel like his job is in jeopardy. Not make his job safe despite the bad play. They've coddled him and he's getting a ridiculously long leash that he doesn't deserve. 

 

I found the media to be weird.  Wilkerson, all pro, says nothing bad against the team, and the media made it out to be shocking if he ever returned.  Fitz?  Free agent, taking other visits, holding out and the entire time the media played it like it would be shocking if he didn't return.  I think it played into the fan base thinking bringing him back was a foregone conclusion.  

4 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Of course you are 100% correct. 

People say Brady, Manning, Nathmath etc.  and say those had bad games.  But as you imply the idea of putting Fitz in that category is nuts. Fitz has been in the league over 10 years and this is how he plays.  The idea that we should be comparing him to Elite play is beyond ridiculous and Bowles if doesn't get that quick will be the second HC fired because of Fitz' play.  

Yeah, Fitz is going to cost this regime badly right now.  

3 hours ago, phill1c said:

I'm not sure Woody caved to media here. I think Todd Bowles did. After all, Gailey had Smith as the starter originally, "no question".

And I totally agree: Smith has issues with recognizing defenses. But, really, many of the issues Smith had were the result of poor OL, who couldn't hold blocks in obvious passing situations--something that may still be an issue--and poor receiving targets, which seems like much less of an issue.

What I see with Smith is what I think happened to Sanchez here: too worried about bad plays instead of trying to make good plays. A lot of that has to do with the fan treatment. So, it's unclear if that will ever be fixed here. The amount of arguments against him were so absurd: "he's a great practice player but in games..." "we've seen what he can do..." "Fitz is so clearly better..." "Fitz is the smarter QB.."  etc.

I think ANY QB can improve, given experience. But the haters are all about not even considering that notion. And, to side with Fitzpatrick, based on completely FALSE premise of him reading defenses better, must rankle Smith. I know it rankled me.

Anyway, I'm really glad this thread exists. It really reveals the absurdly hateful mindset of the Smith haters, who, not surprisingly, have no comments on this thread.

I would love to see how Geno or Petty looks this season before it's too late.  

[CrazyCarl40]

2 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I would love to see how Geno or Petty looks this season before it's too late.  

Petty yes. Geno no. Did you do these tape breakdowns in 2013 and 2014? Then you should already know what he looks like. And if he does play this season, I hope you're as thorough and critical of him as you are of Fitz.

[cant wait]

3 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Petty yes. Geno no. Did you do these tape breakdowns in 2013 and 2014? Then you should already know what he looks like. And if he does play this season, I hope you're as thorough and critical of him as you are of Fitz.

and here you have the perfect example of where the never ending patience for fitzpatrick comes from. he could play worse than anybody in the league, but unless geno smith is playing, any reality-based criticism of the jets QB is to be willfully ignored. such is the agenda

[Jetdawgg]

@win4ever.....that must be the class that Fitz cut?

[win4ever]

4 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Petty yes. Geno no. Did you do these tape breakdowns in 2013 and 2014? Then you should already know what he looks like. And if he does play this season, I hope you're as thorough and critical of him as you are of Fitz.

I did, I didn't write them here, but I saw the game tapes.  If we do make the switch, I'll write the breakdowns as to why it was a good move before he plays his next game.  

Geno wasn't stellar by any point, but it's striking to see how little separation the receivers were getting. 

3 hours ago, Jetdawgg said:

@win4ever.....that must be the class that Fitz cut?

You mean holding out for a better grade?

[CrazyCarl40]

4 hours ago, cant wait said:

and here you have the perfect example of where the never ending patience for fitzpatrick comes from. he could play worse than anybody in the league, but unless geno smith is playing, any reality-based criticism of the jets QB is to be willfully ignored. such is the agenda

Eat me. 

[cant wait]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Eat me. 

No thanks, you're way too salty for my tastes 

[CrazyCarl40]

6 minutes ago, cant wait said:

No thanks, you're way too salty for my tastes 

Somehow I doubt that what with all the salty proteins you take down on a nightly basis. 

[cant wait]

12 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Somehow I doubt that what with all the salty proteins you take down on a nightly basis. 

thats disgusting, and you're pathetic. what a sad, sad little world you live in

[CrazyCarl40]

4 minutes ago, cant wait said:

thats disgusting, and you're pathetic. what a sad, sad little world you live in

If you can't handle it, don't dish it out. You started this little stupid feud a long time ago. Grow up. 

[Mike135]

9 minutes ago, cant wait said:

thats disgusting, and you're pathetic. what a sad, sad little world you live in

Whoa!  Don't jump to conclusions.  I'm sure nutty Carl has your health in mind here.

He must be referring to chicken.  Many of us eat large amounts of it thinking it's healthy and full of protein w/o realizing the amount of sodium being consumed.

http://www.diet-blog.com/09/are_you_aware_of_the_hidden_salt_in_chicken.php

[cant wait]

Just now, CrazyCarl40 said:

If you can't handle it, don't dish it out. You started this little stupid feud a long time ago. Grow up. 

Handle what? Your disgusting childish nonsense? Maybe if you pay attention to reality-based information you'd actually begin to have a basic understanding of football, and could contribute something more than this sad hysterical nonsense

[cant wait]

3 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Whoa!  Don't jump to conclusions.  I'm sure nutty Carl has your health in mind here.

He must be referring to chicken.  Many of us eat large amounts of it thinking it's healthy and full of protein w/o realizing the amount of sodium being consumed.

http://www.diet-blog.com/09/are_you_aware_of_the_hidden_salt_in_chicken.php

And all this time I thought it was just a secret blend of 11 herbs & spices. I knew not to trust the colonel

[CrazyCarl40]

8 minutes ago, cant wait said:

Handle what? Your disgusting childish nonsense? Maybe if you pay attention to reality-based information you'd actually begin to have a basic understanding of football, and could contribute something more than this sad hysterical nonsense

Yeah. See. This is a garbage post because you're a garbage poster. I talk plenty of football because I have a pretty solid grasp on it. You ignore that because it doesn't jive with your opinion. It's fine to disagree, but you take it as an affront and personally. Which is just never going to fly here. Your opinion isn't better than any other one here. Maybe once you realize that you'll be a tolerable poster. Do better. 

[NYJCAP2]

Play 1 & 8 are the same play and they got the same defensive look both times. This is a coaches dream, and Fitz blew it both times. You'd figure Gaily would be like we're coming back to this, don't F it up again, but he did.

[win4ever]

16 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

There's one actual advantage in not having a good starting QB, but having a deadly trio of WRs (not even including the 3 puppies, which becomes 4 when D.Smith comes off PUP week 7), plus a duo of dangerous veteran passcatchers out of the backfield (both of whom pick up blitzes with the best of them). It's that a young QB can be put out there without serious worries about wasting a superbowl opportunity, without youngster having to learn the job throwing to the likes of David Nelson, Clyde Gates, Jeff Cumberland, Stephen Hill, Chansi Stuckey, post-contract Holmes, and non-receiving weapons out of the backfield like T.Jones, Greene, or Ivory.

What an amazing opportunity for a young QB prospect with actual talent, and we're wasting it on Ryan Fitzpatrick. Geno should have been let go so Petty could be given a legit shot with more than just a month left in the season, and he should have been competing for #2 pecking order placement with a 2016 rookie instead of drafting a major project like Hackenberg who amazingly isn't even viable as a #3. By the time Hackenberg is ready to take the field as a starter for the first time (should that day actually ever come), both Marshall & Decker could be off the team (they'll both certainly be worse), Forte will be too old to be effective, and maybe Powell will have lost his current burst as well. Just a waste.

I didn't have time to put together the stats before, but that 2013 offensive unit might have been one of the worst units in the history of football to support a QB.

Let's see (everyone who had a reception that year and left the team) and what they did after 2014, when Geno was last starter:

Santonio Holmes:   Nothing, out of league

Josh Cribbs:  Nothing, out of league

Stephen Hill:  Nothing, free agent now

Clyde Gates:  Nothing, out of league

Ben Obamanu:  Nothing, out of league

Mike Goodson:  Nothing, out of league

Alex Green:  Nothing, out of league

Zach Sudfeld:  Nothing, free agent now

Kellen Winslow:  Nothing, out of league

Konrad Reuland:  0 receptions, 0 yards

Tommy Bohannan:  4 receptions, 56 yards

Jeff Cumberland: 5 receptions, 77 yards combined

Greg Salas:  7 receptions, 130 (and most likely all of them vs. Jets)

Chris Ivory:  31 receptions,  226 yards combined

Jeremy Kerley:  34 receptions, 354 yards combined

So the entire group since the start of 2015 season:  81 catches, 843 yards.   

The entire group of receivers is somewhat equivalent of Ben Watson last year alone.  

 

 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, win4ever said:

I didn't have time to put together the stats before, but that 2013 offensive unit might have been one of the worst units in the history of football to support a QB.

Let's see (everyone who had a reception that year and left the team) and what they did after 2014, when Geno was last starter:

Santonio Holmes:   Nothing, out of league

Josh Cribbs:  Nothing, out of league

Stephen Hill:  Nothing, free agent now

Clyde Gates:  Nothing, out of league

Ben Obamanu:  Nothing, out of league

Mike Goodson:  Nothing, out of league

Alex Green:  Nothing, out of league

Zach Sudfeld:  Nothing, free agent now

Kellen Winslow:  Nothing, out of league

Konrad Reuland:  0 receptions, 0 yards

Tommy Bohannan:  4 receptions, 56 yards

Jeff Cumberland: 5 receptions, 77 yards combined

Greg Salas:  7 receptions, 130 (and most likely all of them vs. Jets)

Chris Ivory:  31 receptions,  226 yards combined

Jeremy Kerley:  34 receptions, 354 yards combined

So the entire group since the start of 2015 season:  81 catches, 843 yards.   

The entire group of receivers is somewhat equivalent of Ben Watson last year alone.  

#genolover

[Mike135]