Turkey Day Football Games Thread Enjoy.

[joewilly12]

Pittsburgh is going to lay the smack down on the Colts 

[RoadFan]

26 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

 

I tend to agree here. As fans we all hated "ground and pound" but if you don't have a QB and put a lot of your resources/cap/draft into o-line you can build a team that can win games.

Instead of simply hoping we find a QB. Let's keep trying to find one but in the meantime build a kick ass o-line.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

What I have been saying all along.  Need a QB.  It is the most important piece.  But O-LINE is a big reason for the success of Oakland and Dallas.

But guys like kevin(whatever #) and a few others think there is no such thing as a rebuild in the NFL.  And others think all you need is a QB.  It took Dallas and Oakland about 4 years to build their O-Lines.

Guys like Andrew Luck and Aaron Rodgers aren't winning because their offensive lines are lousy.  And yes the GB and Indy defenses suck.  But so does Oakland's. It is the guys up front that are winning games.

Jet fans forgot that having the best OL in football in 2009 and 2010 makes a difference.

No such thing as a rebuild my ass... You can't draft 4 quality big guys in one or two years.  You can fill a single spot in free agency like a Woody, Faneca, or Carpenter.  Not to mention the Jets need 4 new starters in the secondary...

 

[jetrider]

23 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

I completely disagree.  Jay Gruden thumbs his nose at the dinosaur-aged, status quo thinking of the collection of gutless sheep coaching in the NFL.

He goes on 4th and 2s regularly from midfield.  He makes aggressive decisions, trying to win.  The correct way to play against a superior team on the road. 

The "short field" argument is partially valid.  The risk is between 30-35 yards of field position.  The reward is a momentum changing play in a crucial game.  Dallas was moving the ball pretty well regardless.

I absolutely HATE when the sheep coaches kick off deep from the 50, usually due to an unsportsmanlike penalty on the defense after a score. THAT SHOULD BE AN ONSIDE KICK ALMOST EVERY, SINGLE TIME. The risk is a lousy 15 yards.  Fifteen.  Yards.  For a chance to keep the ball, score again, demoralize and bury an opponent.

Please tell me you didn't support Toilet Bowles' decision to punt in Pittsburgh?

Sorry I disagree. With 9 mins left in a one-score game you play fundamental football.

An onside kick is for when you absolutely need the ball with under two minutes or so, do or die.

You don't get cute against a highpower offense. It was a foolish gamble and look how it played out.

[RoadFan]

Just now, jetrider said:

Sorry I disagree. With 9 mins left in a one-score game you play fundamental football.

An onside kick is for when you absolutely need the ball with under two minutes, do or die.

You don't get cute against a highpower offense. It was a foolish gamble and look how it played out.

Clearly, we are on opposite sides of this.  So be it.  But how it "played out" is irrelevant.   If the Jets forced a 3 and out to get the ball back against Pittsburgh, it was still the wrong decision to punt.

And my argument, is it is exactly the time to get cute against a high-powered offense.   Try to keep the ball, instead of give it back.

The same reason Gruden went on 4th and 2 from his own 40-something last week late against Green Bay.  The reward for not giving the ball back to Aaron Rodgers is well worth the risk of a short field.  The Redskins couldn't stop Green Bay anyway, just like they couldn't stop Dallas.

 

[MaxAF]

48 minutes ago, UpstateJetsGuru said:

The guy threw for 254 LESS YARDS than his opponent and had 1 TD pass versus 3 TD passes by the opposing QB. Lights out? I call that very lucky to win, let alone fortunate not be blown out. He is beyond bolstered by a strong offensive line and great running game. To think he would have anywhere near this type of success on the Jets is ridiculous. These are two VERY DIFFERENT teams. A Jets QB will not/cannot win a game when his stat line is 195 yards 1 TD versus 449 yards 3 TD's. Apples and oranges. 

You can say what you want. I've been watching this kid all year. Stats aren't always the be all end all. Skins still lost and that's what it's all about. You can call it luck, I call it clutch. He's a winner. Makes plays when they need it.  

[RoadFan]

7 minutes ago, jetrider said:

Sorry I disagree. With 9 mins left in a one-score game you play fundamental football.

An onside kick is for when you absolutely need the ball with under two minutes, do or die.

You don't get cute against a highpower offense. It was a foolish gamble and look how it played out.

A perfect example will possibly happen on Sunday in the Jets game.  Tom Brady is the greatest two-minute drill QB before halftime in history BY A MILE.

If the JETS have possession with 2 and a half minutes to go at their own 40, on 4th and 3, YOU GO FOR IT.  Brady drives a team 80 yards for a TD with 2 minutes left every time before half.

Death. Taxes.  Brady TD drive before halftime.

Bowles will punt, and it will be the wrong decision.

[jetrider]

5 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

Clearly, we are on opposite sides of this.  So be it.  But how it "played out" is irrelevant.   If the Jets forced a 3 and out to get the ball back against Pittsburgh, it was still the wrong decision to punt.

And my argument, is it is exactly the time to get cute against a high-powered offense.   Try to keep the ball, instead of give it back.

The same reason Gruden went on 4th and 2 from his own 40-something last week late against Green Bay.  The reward for not giving the ball back to Aaron Rodgers is well worth the risk of a short field.  The Redskins couldn't stop Green Bay anyway, just like they couldn't stop Dallas.

 

Oh really? LOL ... talk to me when you're sober. Redskins basically spotted Dallas 7 points with the onside kick and lost by 5. 

FYI, Jets were down by TWO scores with 7-1/2 minutes. That's a more desperate situation than down by 5 with over 9 mins, don't you think?

With over 9 mins you're almost certain to get the ball back, so the risk outweighed the gain and wasn't necessary.

[joewilly12]

Colts punter McAfee throws a better pass than Ryan Fitzpatrick does and Tolzein is also a better QB. 

[Joe W. Namath]

Tolzien is better then any qb on our roster.  

[RoadFan]

7 minutes ago, jetrider said:

Oh really? LOL ... talk to me when you're sober. Redskins basically spotted Dallas 7 points with the onside kick and lost by 5. 

FYI, Jets were down by TWO scores with 7-1/2 minutes. That's a more desperate situation than down by 5 with over 9 mins, don't you think?

With over 9 mins you're almost certain to get the ball back, so the risk outweighed the gain and wasn't necessary.

I am dead sober.  Well, had some coffee.  This is going nowhere.  We're both dug in.

Just remember what I said when you watch teams punt the ball back to the "high-powered" New England offense before halftime.  Even in a one-score game.

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Tolzien is better then any qb on our roster.  

Who are the Jets QB scouts have they been employed since 1969. 

[Charlie Brown]

3 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Prescott in a million times better than Ryan Fitzpatrick on his best day 

But folks act like Prescott is just a 4th rounder and is just a fluke and no one could have seen this guys ability....

But guess what?; just like we reached for Hack in the second, we could have scouted and obtained Prescott in the say the 3rd round by say working our picks downward.

 

The key is you can't have guys who are QB projects on the Jets while other teams have guys are getting All-Star play out of rookie QBs

[Tinstar]

8 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

But folks act like Prescott is just a 4th rounder and is just a fluke and no one could have seen this guys ability....

But guess what?; just like we reached for Hack in the second, we could have scouted and obtained Prescott in the say the 3rd round by say working our picks downward.

 

The key is you can't have guys who are QB projects on the Jets while other teams have guys are getting All-Star play out of rookie QBs

My topic for today is "Trust in the process "

It is often said that the closest a woman comes to dying without actually dying is in childbirth . "It's a process". 

The key is you have to have the time to build your plan . Imagine if the Cowboys had fired Jason Garrett when his team was sucking ?  He Build an OL, and he lost a very good QB while he was building it and they were learning how to play NFL style football . Tony Romo  paid the price for what Dax Prescott is receiving . Don't think for 1 second that this team would be the same if the Joneses had fired Jason Garrett .Along the way, this team went through the suspensions, the questionable signings and the losing, both of games and of it's franchise QB .

To quote Eric Mangini, it was a process .

Before a seed can grow, it must die, by surrounded by fertilizer for nutrients and be watered .  it must be planted in good soil thou . Todd Bowles and Money Mike proved with that 1st year , that the foundation was built on good soil . The team won 10 games with an aging OL, no QB to speak of worth a darn, an aging and slow Line backing core and a suspect WR core . The secondary was so bad it needed an infusion of veteran talent to even compete and now those veterans are slowing down.

The seed is growing 

The OL is being rebuilt with youngsters before our very eyes . The Wr core has been rebuilt with youth and speed  and still have 2 veterans playing at a high level to bring the kiddy core along .The Line backing core is being rebuilt with youth and speed, but lacks experience which it's getting in this lost yr. The same can be said for the secondary  with youth and speed but lacking experience .

This team needs a QB, but it's not that far away . If this miserable fan base can be just a little patient with this regime, it will see the fruits that will be produced from what was allowed to die, be surrounded by manure(do we know what manure is) watered and grow . In the meantime, someone has to take the hit and that someone is always either the least of us or the best of us .  Who's going to collect my offering .

That is all .

 

[Jetster]

45 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

My topic for today is "Trust in the process "

It is often said that the closest a woman comes to dying without actually dying is in childbirth . "It's a process". 

The key is you have to have the time to build your plan . Imagine if the Cowboys had fired Jason Garrett when his team was sucking ?  He Build an OL, and he lost a very good QB while he was building it and they were learning how to play NFL style football . Tony Romo  paid the price for what Dax Prescott is receiving . Don't think for 1 second that this team would be the same if the Joneses had fired Jason Garrett .Along the way, this team went through the suspensions, the questionable signings and the losing, both of games and of it's franchise QB .

To quote Eric Mangini, it was a process .

Before a seed can grow, it must die, by surrounded by fertilizer for nutrients and be watered .  it must be planted in good soil thou . Todd Bowles and Money Mike proved with that 1st year , that the foundation was built on good soil . The team won 10 games with an aging OL, no QB to speak of worth a darn, an aging and slow Line backing core and a suspect WR core . The secondary was so bad it needed an infusion of veteran talent to even compete and now those veterans are slowing down.

The seed is growing 

The OL is being rebuilt with youngsters before our very eyes . The Wr core has been rebuilt with youth and speed  and still have 2 veterans playing at a high level to bring the kiddy core along .The Line backing core is being rebuilt with youth and speed, but lacks experience which it's getting in this lost yr. The same can be said for the secondary  with youth and speed but lacking experience .

This team needs a QB, but it's not that far away . If this miserable fan base can be just a little patient with this regime, it will see the fruits that will be produced from what was allowed to die, be surrounded by manure(do we know what manure is) watered and grow . In the meantime, someone has to take the hit and that someone is always either the least of us or the best of us .  Who's going to collect my offering .

That is all .

 

I do agree with a lot of this. When Bill Parcells came here, it would drive me crazy how many how the Jets would run the same plays. But there was a method to the madness. Parcells believed you learned how to run a play in your sleep. 

Then you would add a few more until you run them with precision. Once the good players are fit into that system it's hard to stop when 11 guys execute to perfection in timing & blocking. I remember playing Miami on they would run that pitch sweep where Mawae would pull out & they would just devastate the opponent. 

The Jets needed a veteran QB instead of Sanchez in 2009 & 2010, I think they could have won a Super Bowl. 

If Brett Favre had come back & playing in 2009 behind that Oline we would have won I believe. Favre was unbelievable that year with the Vikings. Jets never stick with any good thing long enough or they stick with veterans way too long. It's an ongoing saga with this organization. This offseason is the one to thin the herd of overpriced veterans again. Fitz, Harris, Mangold, Clady, Breno, Gilchrist should all be jettisoned, 67.5 million opens up in cap space. It's a no brainer. They should target only younger players in free agency. 

[greenwichjetfan]

13 hours ago, jetrider said:

Oh really? LOL ... talk to me when you're sober. Redskins basically spotted Dallas 7 points with the onside kick and lost by 5. 

FYI, Jets were down by TWO scores with 7-1/2 minutes. That's a more desperate situation than down by 5 with over 9 mins, don't you think?

With over 9 mins you're almost certain to get the ball back, so the risk outweighed the gain and wasn't necessary.

Technically speaking, how a decision plays out actually is irrelevant for the decision making process. Whether you feel the decision that was made was a good one or not is up to you and roadfan to hash out, but he is right when he says that the result is irrelevant. Probabilities and forecasts are solely reliant on decision making that inherently ignores specific potential outcomes and relies only on the total scope of potential outcomes; thereby making any results after the fact irrelevant to the actual decision making process.

Do you play blackjack? If you have 19, and dealer is showing a 10, do you hit or stay? If you stay, and dealer turns over another 10 and you lose, are you going to now change your decision making strategy to suggest that regardless of what you have in future hands, if the dealer is showing a 10, you will now always hit until you get 21 or bust? No, because that one result is in fact irrelevant to your decision making process.

I can see where you're coming from, but personally, I like the aggressive, '**** the establishment' ways of some of the guys that aren't all about playing 'fundamental' (read: conservative) football. So I agree with Gruden's decision to go for that onsides kick. It payed off huge for Sean Payton in the super bowl against the Colts, and that was also a non-fundamental football decision; so it clearly has its wins and losses, but I wish we would actually hire a coach that has that type of mentality. 

[drdetroit]

16 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Prescott in a million times better than Ryan Fitzpatrick on his best day 

Just a million?

[drdetroit]

16 hours ago, HessStation said:

The reason for Cowboys dominance is their OL. 

Agreed but the same OL couldn't win games last year when scrubs like Matt Cassel and Brandon Weeden were playing QB

[drdetroit]

14 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Tolzien is better then any qb on our roster.  

Agree tho not saying much

[Charlie Brown]

4 hours ago, Tinstar said:

My topic for today is "Trust in the process "

It is often said that the closest a woman comes to dying without actually dying is in childbirth . "It's a process". 

The key is you have to have the time to build your plan . Imagine if the Cowboys had fired Jason Garrett when his team was sucking ?  He Build an OL, and he lost a very good QB while he was building it and they were learning how to play NFL style football . Tony Romo  paid the price for what Dax Prescott is receiving . Don't think for 1 second that this team would be the same if the Joneses had fired Jason Garrett .Along the way, this team went through the suspensions, the questionable signings and the losing, both of games and of it's franchise QB .

To quote Eric Mangini, it was a process .

Before a seed can grow, it must die, by surrounded by fertilizer for nutrients and be watered .  it must be planted in good soil thou . Todd Bowles and Money Mike proved with that 1st year , that the foundation was built on good soil . The team won 10 games with an aging OL, no QB to speak of worth a darn, an aging and slow Line backing core and a suspect WR core . The secondary was so bad it needed an infusion of veteran talent to even compete and now those veterans are slowing down.

The seed is growing 

The OL is being rebuilt with youngsters before our very eyes . The Wr core has been rebuilt with youth and speed  and still have 2 veterans playing at a high level to bring the kiddy core along .The Line backing core is being rebuilt with youth and speed, but lacks experience which it's getting in this lost yr. The same can be said for the secondary  with youth and speed but lacking experience .

This team needs a QB, but it's not that far away . If this miserable fan base can be just a little patient with this regime, it will see the fruits that will be produced from what was allowed to die, be surrounded by manure(do we know what manure is) watered and grow . In the meantime, someone has to take the hit and that someone is always either the least of us or the best of us .  Who's going to collect my offering .

That is all .

 

I appreciate your post more than most and this was a good one.

In no way have I said that Bowles or Mac should be fired.  You know me well enough to know that I felt that the Jets under Woody have been to quick to pull the trigger with HCs and often for the wrong reasons.  But I what I have said is that the process they are implementing at the QB position had better work or we will be seeing this same horror show in three years from now.

I have said in the short term that you have to have a plan that involves removing the worst starting QB in the NFL from his perch as the starter.  Maybe Geno was that plan and he got hurt. Maybe? 

Indeed based upon what you are saying here the Jets Brass may believe that Petty is to valuable to be risked behind a poor OL and minus Decker and throw to the wolf pack of Jets fans who can be simply unforgiving!

Thanks for the post I needed it... Happy Post Thanksgiving to All!!!

[jetrider]

15 hours ago, RoadFan said:

I am dead sober.  Well, had some coffee.  This is going nowhere.  We're both dug in.

Just remember what I said when you watch teams punt the ball back to the "high-powered" New England offense before halftime.

Remember you said what — that risk is always good and the outcome is "irrelevant"? 

 

[RoadFan]

14 minutes ago, jetrider said:

Remember you said what — that risk is always good and the outcome is "irrelevant"? 

 

 

I did not say risk is always good.  But I did say that outcome is irrelevant. 

grewenwichjetfan provided an excellent analogy to the game of blackjack, explaing why that is the case.  A basic mathematical principle, but I guess it's over your head.

[jetrider]

2 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Technically speaking, how a decision plays out actually is irrelevant for the decision making process. Whether you feel the decision that was made was a good one or not is up to you and roadfan to hash out, but he is right when he says that the result is irrelevant. Probabilities and forecasts are solely reliant on decision making that inherently ignores specific potential outcomes and relies only on the total scope of potential outcomes; thereby making any results after the fact irrelevant to the actual decision making process.

Do you play blackjack? If you have 19, and dealer is showing a 10, do you hit or stay? If you stay, and dealer turns over another 10 and you lose, are you going to now change your decision making strategy to suggest that regardless of what you have in future hands, if the dealer is showing a 10, you will now always hit until you get 21 or bust? No, because that one result is in fact irrelevant to your decision making process.

I can see where you're coming from, but personally, I like the aggressive, '**** the establishment' ways of some of the guys that aren't all about playing 'fundamental' (read: conservative) football. So I agree with Gruden's decision to go for that onsides kick. It payed off huge for Sean Payton in the super bowl against the Colts, and that was also a non-fundamental football decision; so it clearly has its wins and losses, but I wish we would actually hire a coach that has that type of mentality. 

The type of coach that makes hare-brained game losing decisions? The second onside kick made sense because Wash had everything to gain and nothing to lose.

The first onside kick with over 9 mins left down by 5 points backfired and eventually cost Wash the game. The result is all that matters.

There was no reason to get cute and risk disaster when the game was already manageable down by one TD. Glad we don't have a HC that reckless.

 

[greenwichjetfan]

3 minutes ago, jetrider said:

The type of coach that makes hare-brained game losing decisions? The second onside kick made sense because Wash had everything to gain and nothing to lose.

The first onside kick with over 9 mins left down by 5 points backfired and eventually cost Wash the game. The result is all that matters.

There was no reason to get cute and risk disaster when the game was already manageable down by one TD. Glad we don't have a HC that reckless.

 

Lol, I took time to write out a post with insight and to stimulate discussion. You responded with whatever you responded with, but I didn't read past the first sentence because clearly you're not here for a discussion. 

tl;dr version: don't careeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee