Jets Prepared to Open the Checkbook for Winters?

[Integrity28]

Sperm uses so many words for basic trolling.

[Sperm Edwards]

11 minutes ago, rangerous said:

wait a second.  you think winters or enunwa or any jet draftee doesn't read the sports pages and knows what his comparative worth is?  how about their agents?  think they are telling these guys to re-sign asap because the jets are the best place?  i get your point but i think you may be placing way too muc responsibility on mac for getting these guys re-signed.  i think it was bad the way they let slauson and austin howard go so easily.  and those guys weren't on mac's watch.

I think players all want enormous paydays, as well they should. 

If Enunwa wants a huge FA-level payday he'll have to wait until the 2019 season. Between now and then he has to put up still better numbers, and for all he knows the Jets will be holding on-field, in-season tryouts at QB, making such numbers improbable (if not impossible). He'll also have to stay injury-free.

If he's willing to take on that risk, with basically nothing saved up, he's in the minority of players. Their agents appropriately push them to get what they can when they can, because it's a rough sport and careers can end or get adversely affected without notice. He could end up with nothing. He also can't shop himself around because it's the Jets or nobody.

What could be done to avoid this? A compromise is met. The team takes on an extra year of risk (both injury risk, and the risk that past play isn't sustainable). In exchange they get the player for less than he'd cost as a full FA. 

[Sperm Edwards]

38 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

Right....good for the player....huh?

player like snacks knows he is good, everyone is telling him he is good from coaches to teammate to water boy from year 1

He knows all he has to to is to continue doing what he is doing for 3 more years....turn down their "lock up" offers (yes jets may have tried to lock up how do you know they didn't)

but in meantime in his leisure time he is pricing out his Porsche, mansion, swimming pool, etc...telling his family and friends woohoo money day is coming....

oh maybe I should not gamble on my self and take half the money in their lock up deal..I will have to get a smaller swimming pool....Fock that!

Convenient for you to say. It costs you nothing to risk his nest egg for a larger one, knowing the downside is that (due to injury) he may end up with zero.

All he has to do is play at a high level for 3 more years, lol. That's all, just that.

[Sperm Edwards]

14 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

Maybe they don't want him back...he is worth more in a comp

That's fine if they don't want him back. If they do, the time to get him extended is before his current deal is up, not after it when he can shop himself around.

Also there will be no comp pick. We're far more likely to sign more UFAs than we lose after a bunch of other guys are cut to clear a bunch of space.

[Mogglez]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Was? Winters is still a guy who's easily replaced. There's no night & day difference to closing out 2015 and his play in 2016.

Point is bringing him back is far more expensive now than extending him a year earlier. It always is more expensive for the team to wait. 

He graded out beautifully this year while 2015 was more of a mixed bag.  That is a night and day difference.  The real point is that Winters would have been a fool to take a cheap offer mid-season and the Jets would have had all of us scratching our heads for giving him a long term deal at the end of 2015.  It was never going to happen the way you wanted it to happen.

[TJ]

9 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Sperm uses so many words for basic trolling.

LMAO

[Sperm Edwards]

12 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Sperm uses so many words for basic trolling.

 

[Mogglez]

15 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No one, lol. Yeah no one except his own team, who made him the automatic starter.

He would have taken a cheaper deal for the same reason every young player does before making any money: avoid the risk of ending up with nothing. 

Or are you of the opinion it would have cost the Jets $9.5m/yr to lock up Snacks in March of 2015? 

I believe that he had a competition with Dakota Dozier at the beginning of the year and he ran away with it.  The team took a gamble on him and it paid off (just not in wins).  He wasn't taking a cheap deal, and honestly, until this past season, I don't believe we had any interest in giving him one.

I'm of the opinion that Snacks wasn't worth the big bucks he was going to make. Especially when we had 2 of Mo, Leo, and Sheldon to pay.  Deon Simon was also waiting in the wings and showed that he might be a total steal in his limited playing time.  Loved Snacks, but I'm not weeping over him being gone.  At the end of the day, he isn't a 3 down NT and lacks any sort of pass rush.

[Sperm Edwards]

5 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

He graded out beautifully this year while 2015 was more of a mixed bag.  That is a night and day difference.  The real point is that Winters would have been a fool to take a cheap offer mid-season and the Jets would have had all of us scratching our heads for giving him a long term deal at the end of 2015.  It was never going to happen the way you wanted it to happen.

You say this with the benefit of hindsight. Had he been offered a 3 yr extension at say $3m with half guaranteed, and then got benched or suffered a career altering injury, you'd instead be commenting about what a fool he was to turn down such a deal.

Sione Pouha was extended 3 yrs at $2m per. Personally, I thought it was nuts at the time. What looked like too much at the time ended up being a tremendous bargain. Had the Jets waited another year he'd have cost 2-3x that amount. 

[SickJetFan]

14 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Convenient for you to say. It costs you nothing to risk his nest egg for a larger one, knowing the downside is that (due to injury) he may end up with zero.

Spoken like a 50 something accountant telling a 20 something put it all on the line kid to be conservative...lol

little white angel sperm on Snacks left shoulder preaching play it safe 

little red devil agent sitting on Snack right shoulder SHOW ME THE M O N E Y!

[bostonmajet]

Not sure Winters is worth getting worked up over. He was okay. If he can be had reasonably, fine. But, I would prefer it if we could upgrade.

As far as locking him up during the offseason, why should Winters take the deal; he could see (especially after the draft) that the team was soft at OL; he had to know that he would get the start and as a free agent could go where he wanted. Unless we offered him a great deal, why should he take it? Why should we offer it until after the draft as we could have landed one in the draft.

Mediocre player, not worth the cost of a great contract. Just my opinion.

[Sperm Edwards]

8 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I believe that he had a competition with Dakota Dozier at the beginning of the year and he ran away with it.  The team took a gamble on him and it paid off (just not in wins).  He wasn't taking a cheap deal, and honestly, until this past season, I don't believe we had any interest in giving him one.

I'm of the opinion that Snacks wasn't worth the big bucks he was going to make. Especially when we had 2 of Mo, Leo, and Sheldon to pay.  Deon Simon was also waiting in the wings and showed that he might be a total steal in his limited playing time.  Loved Snacks, but I'm not weeping over him being gone.  At the end of the day, he isn't a 3 down NT and lacks any sort of pass rush.

If there was any serious competition between him and Dozier that is even more of a reason he'd have gladly signed an extension in March. 

What are you talking about that they had Deon Simon waiting in the wings? They cut him in September and plopped him onto the practice squad. Not to mention, they drafted Simon (in round 7) after declining to offer Snacks an extension. So you're wrong twice in one sentence. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, bostonmajet said:

Not sure Winters is worth getting worked up over. He was okay. If he can be had reasonably, fine. But, I would prefer it if we could upgrade.

As far as locking him up during the offseason, why should Winters take the deal; he could see (especially after the draft) that the team was soft at OL; he had to know that he would get the start and as a free agent could go where he wanted. Unless we offered him a great deal, why should he take it? Why should we offer it until after the draft as we could have landed one in the draft.

Mediocre player, not worth the cost of a great contract. Just my opinion.

I'm not getting worked up over Winters. I'm "worked up" over the GM waiting. If he has no interest in re-signing Winters I'm 100% fine with not extending him earlier. As you say, he isn't all that. But if he wants to re-sign him because he has enough holes to fill aside from RG, he should have known this before the season. 

Your rationale sounds good to fans that don't have to risk the team signing or drafting his replacement, and don't have to risk pre-FA injury. You could say "why should he take it?" about every young player, yet every year teams do lock up their younger players before they become free agents. Often young players turn down that early "cheap" offer and live to regret the decision.

[Snell41]

This is another case of jet fans overvaluing a player.
Winters is a JAG.  Put Qvale in there and there is little drop off and he was udfa.
i hope the jets lowball Winters and let some other team over pay him.  Take the comp pick in 2018.

No, we developed Austin Howard and let him go. He went on to be a solid RT on a great Raiders line. We developed Slauson and let him go, he went on to be solid for CHI. If we're going to spend the time developing guys, we might as well reap the reward. Winters is dolid, and heading into his prime. He's a no brained signing.


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[RSJ]

I would think Winters injury would hurt his value somewhat at the very least. Also, although Winter had a good year, I hardly think he is worth top OG money. He is a mid tier OG. Mid tier money or I will take a comp pick.

[SickJetFan]

1 minute ago, Snell41 said:

 

No, we developed Austin Howard and let him go. He went on to be a solid RT on a great Raiders line. We developed Slauson and let him go, he went on to be solid for CHI. If we're going to spend the time developing guys, we might as well reap the reward. Winters is dolid, and heading into his prime. He's a no brained signing.


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I'll say it again..winters is jag

he came in and started LG and sucked turnstile...I thought he should move to RG because he is better run blocker than pass protection...at least as a sh*tty pass protector on right side QB can see it come and guess what.  Dink and dunk...

he never got any better.  Fitz saved him countless times by quick release at the expense of getting 1st down.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

12 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

Spoken like a 50 something accountant telling a 20 something put it all on the line kid to be conservative...lol

little white angel sperm on Snacks left shoulder preaching play it safe 

little red devil agent sitting on Snack right shoulder SHOW ME THE M O N E Y!

Hardly. Plenty of players take money earlier. They often feel that is when the iron is hot and want to cash in before the opportunity passes. 

You are looking at this through he benefit of hindsight. You know now that Winters' starting job was not replaced by a new FA or a high draft pick. You know now no other guard improved from '15 to the summer of '16, the way he did from '14-15, and take his starting job away. And while he did sustain a late injury it's not career threatening. (If it is, then this changes to an excellent non-extension by Maccagnan).

You know all this now and are putting present knowledge into the early March, 2016 head of a former 3rd round draft pick who, back then, may have had good reason to be concerned about his financial future. 

[SickJetFan]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

Hardly. Plenty of players take money earlier. They often feel that is when the iron is hot and want to cash in before the opportunity passes. 

You are looking at this through he benefit of hindsight. You know now that Winters' starting job was not replaced by a new FA or a high draft pick. You know now no other guard improved from '15 to the summer of '16, the way he did from '14-15, and take his starting job away. And while he did sustain a late injury it's not career threatening. (If it is, then this changes to an excellent non-extension by Maccagnan).

You know all this now and are putting present knowledge into the early March, 2016 head of a former 3rd round draft pick who, back then, may have had good reason to be concerned about his financial future. 

That's classic....you accusing someone else of using hindsight lol...please.

[Sperm Edwards]

14 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

That's classic....you accusing someone else of using hindsight lol...please.

You're using what you know today about him keeping the job and staying healthy enough, and inserting that into the head of Brian Winters of a year ago before it happened.

Pretend you're Brian Winters. After Colon's injury, you stepped in and at least kept the starting job this time. You're far better than you were, but you were only starting due to someone else's injury and in the end you really were just OK. If you can sustain just-OK you can parlay that into millions in today's NFL.

OK, it's early March of 2016. Free agency starts next week. Your GM comes to you and say, "Brian we'd like to extend you for 3 years at $3m/yr with $4m guaranteed." You're not initially blown away since you feel you could get more than that a year later, but it's enough to set you up for the rest of your life. Your GM continues, "You should be aware, Brian, that if you don't sign this now then we'll look to replace you sooner rather than later. There are FA guards out there and it's the one position I got right last year with Carpenter. I will sign a new starting guard in the next 2 weeks. You will lose your starting job, and enter free agency as a backup guard."

You're telling me if you're Brian Winters you really turn down that "cheap" contract? Bull***t. 

[SickJetFan]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

Pretend you're Brian Winters. After Colon's injury, you stepped in and at least kept the starting job this time. You're far better than you were, but you were only starting due to someone else's injury and in the end you really were just OK. If you can sustain just-OK you can parlay that into millions in today's NFL.

OK, it's early March of 2016. Free agency starts next week. Your GM comes to you and say, "Brian we'd like to extend you for 3 years at $3m/yr with $4m guaranteed." You're not initially blown away since you feel you could get more than that a year later, but it's enough to set you up for the rest of your life. Your GM continues, "You should be aware, Brian, that if you don't sign this now then we'll look to replace you sooner rather than later. There are FA guards out there and it's the one position I got right last year with Carpenter. I will sign a new starting guard in the next 2 weeks. You will lose your starting job, and enter free agency as a backup guard."

You're telling me if you're Brian Winters you really turn down that "cheap" contract? Bull***t. 

How do you know they didn't put an offer on table..are they supposed to be successful at that at all cost?

[Sperm Edwards]

14 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

How do you know they didn't put an offer on table..are they supposed to be successful at that at all cost?

You didn't answer the question and are dodging by asking me to prove a negative. I'm not surprised because if you're Brian Winters you know perfectly well you don't turn down that offer.

If executed properly, the choices proposed shouldn't have been between a cheap deal and a bigger deal. It's between a cheap deal and a backup/show-me contract in 2017 (if you stay healthy enough for even that). If the GM isn't an amateur playing a professionals' game, that is. 

[SickJetFan]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

You didn't answer the question and are dodging by asking me to prove a negative. I'm not surprised because if you're Brian Winters you know perfectly well you don't turn down that offer.

If executed properly, the choices proposed shouldn't have been between a cheap deal and a bigger deal. It's between a cheap deal and a backup/show-me contract (if you stay healthy enough for even that). If the GM isn't an amateur playing a professionals' game, that is. 

Here you go with the dodging sh*t again...I didn't answer because it's late and I only read your last sentence...anywho like I said I hope they did and do lowball winters so he walks....you brought this same argument up about Snacks in another thread.

[RSJ]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You didn't answer the question and are dodging by asking me to prove a negative. I'm not surprised because if you're Brian Winters you know perfectly well you don't turn down that offer.

If executed properly, the choices proposed shouldn't have been between a cheap deal and a bigger deal. It's between a cheap deal and a backup/show-me contract (if you stay healthy enough for even that). If the GM isn't an amateur playing a professionals' game, that is. 

If they gave Winter good money and he tore his ACL week one, you would be screaming. Fact is Winters is a JAG who had an above average year.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, RSJ said:

If they gave Winter good money and he tore his ACL week one, you would be screaming. Fact is Winters is a JAG who had an above average year.

I've never suggested Winters is anything more than he is as a player. Also I've never gotten on a GM for signing a previously injury-free player and then have him suffer a freak injury, so your guessing at what I'd say is off base.

My criticism isn't "Oh noes we're going to lose him!" It's quite simple: if (as the article suggests) Maccagnan is "prepared to open the checkbook for Winters" then he should have done it a year earlier when it would have taken far lower checks.

[Mogglez]

54 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You say this with the benefit of hindsight. Had he been offered a 3 yr extension at say $3m with half guaranteed, and then got benched or suffered a career altering injury, you'd instead be commenting about what a fool he was to turn down such a deal.

Sione Pouha was extended 3 yrs at $2m per. Personally, I thought it was nuts at the time. What looked like too much at the time ended up being a tremendous bargain. Had the Jets waited another year he'd have cost 2-3x that amount. 

If he had been extended at all mid-season, the only thing I'd be thinking is why did we re-sign him.  He wasn't good.  If he got hurt or w/e I really wouldn't be thinking about the numbers at all.  His play up until last year would have earned him the contract.  If he wanted more and gambled on himself, I wouldn't blame him at all.  I didn't feel bad for Leon Washington (or think he was an idiot), and I'd feel the same if it were Winters.

50 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If there was any serious competition between him and Dozier that is even more of a reason he'd have gladly signed an extension in March. 

What are you talking about that they had Deon Simon waiting in the wings? They cut him in September and plopped him onto the practice squad. Not to mention, they drafted Simon (in round 7) after declining to offer Snacks an extension. So you're wrong twice in one sentence. 

If they didn't think he was good enough to beat out Dozier, why in the world would they offer him an extension before a training camp battle between the two?  Better yet, if Winters was completely confident that he would beat out a guy, why would he tuck his tail in between his legs and sign a contract for less than what he feels his capable of earning?  Nothing you have suggested would have made ANY sense going into spring/summer of last year.

Deon Simon came in and had a good rookie camp, preseason, and got stashed om the PS because they liked him enough to keep developing him and didn't think anyone would take him.  The PS isn't a death sentence. Enunwa spent most of his rookie year there too.  Plus, it's easy to replace a guy like Snacks in FA (McLendon), especially when you had the three big guys we had to step in (Moe, Leo, Sheldon).  So no, I'm not wrong.  The Jets thought Snacks wasn't worth the big payday.  They found 2 viable replacements for him in McLendon and Simon.  For all the hype I heard about him this year, how the Giants were geniuses for "overpaying" for him, he didn't do a damn thing to stop the Packers from dropping 38 on em last night.  You don't give money like that to a 2 down NT. Period.  

[RSJ]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

I've never suggested Winters is anything more than he is as a player. Also I've never gotten on a GM for signing a previously injury-free player and then have him suffer a freak injury, so your guessing at what I'd say is off base.

My criticism isn't "Oh noes we're going to lose him!" It's quite simple: if (as the article suggests) Maccagnan is "prepared to open the checkbook for Winters" then he should have done it a year earlier when it would have taken far lower checks.

I mean you are not totally wrong. I would just point out that the cap room wasnt available last season to do something like that. Lets see if he does some of this stuff moving forward.

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

Here you go with the dodging sh*t again...I didn't answer because it's late and I only read your last sentence...anywho like I said I hope they did and do lowball winters so he walks....you brought this same argument up about Snacks in another thread.

Snacks should have been extended in March of 2015. He would not have cost nearly $9.5m per season then.

Winters - if Maccagnan has plans of keeping him - should have been extended in March of 2016. 

A fool waits until his coveted re-signings hit full free agency and cross fingers that no one else wants him.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, RSJ said:

I mean you are not totally wrong. I would just point out that the cap room wasnt available last season to do something like that. Lets see if he does some of this stuff moving forward.

Sure it was. It would have been an extension, not a tear up your current deal and replace it.

As in, his 2016 salary would have remained the same. He'd have received a small signing bonus that would have been amortized over 4 years (the current year plus the 3 year extension). 

I fail to see how this minimal cost contract - basically an expensive backup $ deal - was not a worthwhile risk for a young player with upside, but 1 year of a 30+ Antonio Cromartie was a worthy one.

[Mogglez]

18 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Snacks should have been extended in March of 2015. He would not have cost nearly $9.5m per season then.

Winters - if Maccagnan has plans of keeping him - should have been extended in March of 2016. 

A fool waits until his coveted re-signings hit full free agency and cross fingers that no one else wants him.

Not only should Snacks never been given big money by us, but it's not even close in terms of production between these two at their respective positions.  Has it ever even crossed your mind that mayyyyyyyyybe we didn't want to keep Winters?

[Mogglez]

9 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Sure it was. It would have been an extension, not a tear up your current deal and replace it.

As in, his 2016 salary would have remained the same. He'd have received a small signing bonus that would have been amortized over 4 years (the current year plus the 3 year extension). 

I fail to see how this minimal cost contract - basically an expensive backup $ deal - was not a worthwhile risk for a young player with upside, but 1 year of a 30+ Antonio Cromartie was a worthy one.

Because he pretty much looked like nothing more than a back-up up until this year and Cromartie was coming off a good year in the new Head Coach's system.  I mean, it's pretty easy to figure out.

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

If he had been extended at all mid-season, the only thing I'd be thinking is why did we re-sign him.  He wasn't good.  If he got hurt or w/e I really wouldn't be thinking about the numbers at all.  His play up until last year would have earned him the contract.  If he wanted more and gambled on himself, I wouldn't blame him at all.  I didn't feel bad for Leon Washington (or think he was an idiot), and I'd feel the same if it were Winters.

If they didn't think he was good enough to beat out Dozier, why in the world would they offer him an extension before a training camp battle between the two?  Better yet, if Winters was completely confident that he would beat out a guy, why would he tuck his tail in between his legs and sign a contract for less than what he feels his capable of earning?  Nothing you have suggested would have made ANY sense going into spring/summer of last year.

Deon Simon came in and had a good rookie camp, preseason, and got stashed om the PS because they liked him enough to keep developing him and didn't think anyone would take him.  The PS isn't a death sentence. Enunwa spent most of his rookie year there too.  Plus, it's easy to replace a guy like Snacks in FA (McLendon), especially when you had the three big guys we had to step in (Moe, Leo, Sheldon).  So no, I'm not wrong.  The Jets thought Snacks wasn't worth the big payday.  They found 2 viable replacements for him in McLendon and Simon.  For all the hype I heard about him this year, how the Giants were geniuses for "overpaying" for him, he didn't do a damn thing to stop the Packers from dropping 38 on em last night.  You don't give money like that to a 2 down NT. Period.  

That's different. You're talking about keeping him for 2017+ vs not keeping him for 2017+. I don't disagree that he's very replaceable, and if he wanted to upgrade I wouldn't begrudge him for doing so. Winters is only as good as he is. Rather, my beef is waiting until the last minute and then try to lock up this player. 

It would have been relatively easy to get him locked up for a few more years, and the risk to the team would have been minimal since he simply wouldn't have been an expensive extension. Even the simple proposal I outlined would have gotten Winters to sign. He can believe in himself all he wants; that's not going to trump the team signing a veteran FA or drafting a guard with a high pick. This is even before any supposed competition with Dozier.

One year ago Winters had little to no leverage and Maccagnan had virtually all of it. Now Winters is the one with the leverage since he can go anywhere as a young UFA with 2 years as a starter under his belt.

Teams don't put players they're in love with on the PS where anyone can snatch them up. They just don't, and the suggestion is intellectually dishonest. Particularly in light of the fact that they didn't extend Snacks, making the risk that much more. McLendon was not an adequate replacement for Snacks. He is a good player, but he's older and, as this season showed, is not as durable. He's also just simply not as good. Plus Snacks was a good locker room guy who sets a great example, and this team needs such players. Badly.

[RSJ]

19 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Sure it was. It would have been an extension, not a tear up your current deal and replace it.

As in, his 2016 salary would have remained the same. He'd have received a small signing bonus that would have been amortized over 4 years (the current year plus the 3 year extension). 

I fail to see how this minimal cost contract - basically an expensive backup $ deal - was not a worthwhile risk for a young player with upside, but 1 year of a 30+ Antonio Cromartie was a worthy one.

If I am Winters there is no way I sign something like that. Not a chance. I know how good I am too. Not just the front office.

[Sperm Edwards]

9 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Because he pretty much looked like nothing more than a back-up up until this year and Cromartie was coming off a good year in the new Head Coach's system.  I mean, it's pretty easy to figure out.

Nope, not true. The huge improvement from Winters was from '14 to '15, infinitely more than his improvement from '15 to '16. 

At age 24, entering his 4th season, he was a worthwhile gamble as a player that began to show improvement, into hopefully fully developing into the player that was (then) a non-reach in round 3. If (as you claim) he looked like nothing more than a backup to the team, they'd surely have found a replacement in free agency, or by the draft at the latest. They brought in no one. Because they liked him, and viewed him as a starter not as a backup.

Cromartie was coming off a year where he got a pro bowl inclusion by reputation. He was burned plenty in '14 despite having Peterson on the other side (or maybe because he had Peterson on the other side). It was a foolish signing at the time, given the $7m pricetag, and that foolishness was confirmed by the ensuing season.

[Mogglez]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

That's different. You're talking about keeping him for 2017+ vs not keeping him for 2017+. I don't disagree that he's very replaceable, and if he wanted to upgrade I wouldn't begrudge him for doing so. Winters is only as good as he is. Rather, my beef is waiting until the last minute and then try to lock up this player. 

It would have been relatively easy to get him locked up for a few more years, and the risk to the team would have been minimal since he simply wouldn't have been an expensive extension. Even the simple proposal I outlined would have gotten Winters to sign. He can believe in himself all he wants; that's not going to trump the team signing a veteran FA or drafting a guard with a high pick. This is even before any supposed competition with Dozier.

One year ago Winters had little to no leverage and Maccagnan had virtually all of it. Now Winters is the one with the leverage since he can go anywhere as a young UFA with 2 years as a starter under his belt.

Teams don't put players they're in love with on the PS where anyone can snatch them up. They just don't, and the suggestion is intellectually dishonest. Particularly in light of the fact that they didn't extend Snacks, making the risk that much more. McLendon was not an adequate replacement for Snacks. He is a good player, but he's older and, as this season showed, is not as durable. He's also just simply not as good. Plus Snacks was a good locker room guy who sets a great example, and this team needs such players. Badly.

You can think that believing in himself wouldn't affect his positioning all you want.  A players pride and belief in their talent usually affects negotiations.  Your proposal, again, complete ignores the idea that maybe we just didn't want to sign him.  We have no idea how the team felt about him and his potential, but all signs say that they weren't expecting him to play to this high of a level.  Even if your scenario was real,  if Winters was replaced by a high pick or FA after turning a deal down, then that would be on him and no one else.  We also wouldn't be having this discussion right now because he would have never had a great 2016 and would have never been due a big pay day so all of this becomes irrelevant.  If for some reason he was still named the starter AFTER a high pick lineman was selected and had a good season, would you still be complaining about losing him?  No.  Because we would have had a viable replacement.  Would you be upset that we used a high pick on a lineman?  No, because nothing Winters had done in the past would have pointed to a year like this.

Developmental players that a team likes go to the practice squad to hone their skills.  The Jets probably did like Simon, but we're you expecting them to cut one of Harrison, Couples (who was still here at the time), Leo, or Sheldon to stash him on the 53?  No.  Thats why they put him there.  He didn't have much pro tape, but they obviously liked what they saw from his limited game action and camp sessions.  Like I said, Enunwa spent most of his rookie year on the practice squad.  Now look at him.  Teams absolutely will stash players there in the hopes that they aren't snatched up.  Thinking otherwise is naive.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, RSJ said:

If I am Winters there is no way I sign something like that. Not a chance. I know how good I am too. Not just the front office.

I'm putting it to you the way I put it earlier:

"Brian RSJ Winters (lol), here's my offer of a 3 year extension at $3m per, with $4m guaranteed. Your upside, frankly, isn't much higher than that anyway. Sign it and you'll be our starter for years, making millions. You'll be set for life. and will hit FA again at age 29 (if we don't extend you again before then). If you don't sign it you will be a backup player after I find your replacement in free agency in the next 2 weeks. There are about 20 guards available, and if not I still have the draft after that."

More correctly, he puts it that way to your agent, who knows it's not a bluff because he sees it happen plenty with his other young clients. He'd advise you (Winters) to do the smart thing and take the millions in front of him while the offer is there, because there's a good chance it won't be there a week later.

I doubt Winters would bet his livelihood on the hope that Maccagnan won't sign a FA guard that would drop him back to 2nd string. He can believe in himself all he wants; he also must realistically know there's a dramatic difference between himself and the game's best guards that still don't get $10m/yr like other positions.