Jets Jamal Adams is only NY player headed to Pro Bowl

[rangerous]

i don't see why everyone is so anxious to trade adams.  he's done a really good job and maybe the only mac draft pick, besides darnold, who lives up to his draft position value.  yeah i get the point about the safety position and its draft value but there are people who say the jets have a losing record with adams.  true enough, adams can't do it alone, but is there any player in adam's draft that would've turned the jets into winners?  there's no answer because it can't be answered nor can a single player be found.

i don't think any current jet player is above being traded or even released with the exception of darnold.  the rest should all be considered expendable but at the same time it would have to be quite a good draft deal for adams.  one thing that may work against keeping adams is if they choose to re-sign robbie.  robboie is probably not going to get no. 1 receiver money but his deal will cut into what the team can afford to re-sign adams.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

maybe a better way to say it - the loudest voices in the room certainly seem to support his departure. 

As someone who generally isn't a lunatic, but who supports keeping Adams, are you comfortable giving him Landon Collins money?  And if so, how do you think that helps the Jets win a championship when the team has been awful when Jamal Adams has been here for cheap?

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, rangerous said:

 but is there any player in adam's draft that would've turned the jets into winners?  there's no answer because it can't be answered nor can a single player be found.

Certainly we'd be far better than a perennial 5-11 team with Watson or Mahomes.  

[joewilly12]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Certainly we'd be far better than a perennial 5-11 team with Watson or Mahomes.  

No one is saying we wouldn't be. 

We can't change the pick. 

We picked Jamal Adams instead and he has done some great things here. 

[ZachEY]

Just now, rangerous said:

i don't see why everyone is so anxious to trade adams.  he's done a really good job and maybe the only mac draft pick, besides darnold, who lives up to his draft position value.  yeah i get the point about the safety position and its draft value but there are people who say the jets have a losing record with adams.  true enough, adams can't do it alone, but is there any player in adam's draft that would've turned the jets into winners?  there's no answer because it can't be answered nor can a single player be found.

Draft Patrick Mahommes or Deshaun Watson and you also get to draft someone at the top of the 2018 draft, two players in the 2nd round of 2018, and one player in the 2nd round of 2019.  That would go a long way to making us winners.  And, even if all else was equal, Mahommes or Watson would have us closer to being winners, if not winning already today.

[ZachEY]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

No one is saying we wouldn't be.  

That is literally what he just said.

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

The fact that you are comparing and using anything involving the Miami Dolphins says it all. 

 You know for a fact that we are going to make Jamal Adams the highest paid in the NFL. 

It does.  It said Jamal Adams presence isn't meaningful enough to overcome the Miami Dolphins.

Is your argument that Jamal Adams is going to accept less than Landon Collins, who was signed as a SS just last year?  And, is there a dollar amount that is too much in your mind?  Where you'd say, get rid of him?

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

That is literally what he just said.

Im agreeing with him.

 

[ZachEY]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Im agreeing with him.

 

rangerous said there's not a single player from Adam's draft that could turn the team into winners.

JF80 (and I) suggested Watson/Mahommes would.

You said, no one is saying they wouldn't be.

rangerous just did.  In a post you repped as Post of the Week. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, TeddEY said:

It does.  It said Jamal Adams presence isn't meaningful enough to overcome the Miami Dolphins.

Is your argument that Jamal Adams is going to accept less than Landon Collins, who was signed as a SS just last year?  And, is there a dollar amount that is too much in your mind?  Where you'd say, get rid of him?

Im not in the position to say what's going happen with Jamal Adams contract and neither are you. 

You are speculating based on hate for the player. 

Sure let's trade him for what if draft picks that more likely than not won't be as good or as impactful as he is. 

2019 NFL draft I wanted Josh Allen the edge rusher as e we speak would have been the better pick. 

Jamal Adams is the best defensive player this team has had in a long time. 

Revis dominated the CB position here and Jamal Adams is dominating the Safety position in the schemes he's being told to play. 

 

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

rangerous said there's not a single player from Adam's draft that could turn the team into winners.

JF80 (and I) suggested Watson/Mahommes would.

You said, no one is saying they wouldn't be.

rangerous just did.  In a post you repped as Post of the Week. 

Would I rather have Mahomes or Watson instead of Jamal Adams absolutely. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Im not in the position to say what's going happen with Jamal Adams contract and neither are you. 

You are speculating based on hate for the player. 

We're speculating based on the market value of a top SS.  In what Universe will Jamal Adams accept a dime less than top market value?  The same guy who compared himself to Aaron Donald?  You kidding me?

[joewilly12]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

We're speculating based on the market value of a top SS.  In what Universe will Jamal Adams accept a dime less than top market value?

None and why should he?  Your opinions are he isn't worth it.  You also hate the player. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

None and why should he?  Your opinions are he isn't worth it.  You also hate the player. 

So you agree.  Why should we be the ones to pay him?  Is it a wise move for a franchise lacking OL, WR, EDGE and CB to give a Strong Safety, no matter how good, CB1 money?

[sciond]

25 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'd love to bring in some corners.  Problem is we also need OL, WR, and EDGE. 

If Jamal is only really good if we have corners and a pass rush, he really isn't the guy you want to build your whole defense around.  And that's exactly what you'd be doing the moment you decide NOT to trade him then pay him $15M a year.  

Maybe so,but then we will need a safety as well....and yes the price is really really steep

How did it go not resigning our Pro Bowl kicker last summer due to cost? Although granted his year has not been stellar.

Like I said I am basing my opinion on us rarely having a homegrown star and he is star ATM.

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So you agree.  Why should we be the ones to pay him?  Is it a wise move for a franchise lacking OL, WR, EDGE and CB to give a Strong Safety, no matter how good, CB1 money?

We should pay him what he's worth if he is in our long term plans. 

Do you honestly think JD is going to trade his best defensive player for anything less than a blockbuster deal. (2-#1s,#1-#2,and a player)  Who's offering this being you guys have all the knowledge and information. 

[rangerous]

11 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Draft Patrick Mahommes or Deshaun Watson and you also get to draft someone at the top of the 2018 draft, two players in the 2nd round of 2018, and one player in the 2nd round of 2019.  That would go a long way to making us winners.  And, even if all else was equal, Mahommes or Watson would have us closer to being winners, if not winning already today.

that assumes bowles and whoever his offensive coordinator is can work with either qb and also presupposes mac got the guy some serious oline help.  i have thought about this a little.  imo bates was more than a little maligned for last season.  darnold was performing pretty well at the end and the oline blocking was better.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

We should pay him what he's worth if he is in our long term plans. 

Do you honestly think JD is going to trade his best defensive player for anything less than a blockbuster deal. (2-#1s,#1-#2,and a player) 

 

lol the bold is the ultimate cop-out answer.  I'll answer this one in this way:  If it's in JD's long term plans to build the defense around Jamal Adams, I don't think he'll be a very good GM here.  He'll be strapping one hand behind his back in the process given how many needs we have at premium positions.

As for the compensation, of course we want a blockbuster deal.  We're just quibbling over what that should/could look like.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, rangerous said:

that assumes bowles and whoever his offensive coordinator is can work with either qb and also presupposes mac got the guy some serious oline help.  i have thought about this a little.  imo bates was more than a little maligned for last season.  darnold was performing pretty well at the end and the oline blocking was better.

Mahomes and Watson are talented and good enough to overcome deficiencies in the coaching department.  Mahomes especially landed in a terrific situation.  But people love to forget that the Chiefs traded UP to get Mahomes, then jettisoned Alex Smith after a career year.  They didn't do that to acquire a "system QB".  They saw a special skillset.  

[ZachEY]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

 Im not in the position to say what's going happen with Jamal Adams contract and neither are you. 

You are speculating based on hate for the player. 

 Sure let's trade him for what if draft picks that more likely than not won't be as good or as impactful as he is. 

2019 NFL draft I wanted Josh Allen the edge rusher as e we speak would have been the better pick. 

Jamal Adams is the best defensive player this team has had in a long time. 

Revis dominated the CB position here and Jamal Adams is dominating the Safety position in the schemes he's being told to play. 

 

I'm looking at the actual market for safeties, the most recent contracts, and Jamal Adams on words, including comparisons of himself to Tom Brady and Aaron Donald.  I'm using the data that's available.  You're just using words.

"Hate" has nothing to do with it.  It is not smart to pay top dollar to a SS.  The most recent example of a team that did this is the 3-11 Washington Redskins.  They are not a good model.

And do you also understand that while draft picks are a "what if," they are also not coming in at 15M per year, and may play positions that effect the game more?  The NFL has a salary cap, so you have to choose how you allocate resources.  If I can get two decent picks, and 15M not spent, for a SS, I'm happy to roll the dice on those picks.

Who cares who you wanted in the 2019 draft?  It's irrelevant to this conversation.

Jamal Adams isn't even the best defensive player on the team right now.  CJ Mosely is better, and we shouldn't have paid him either.  Hell, if Blessen Austin can become an actual player, it'll be more valuable to this defense than Jamal Adams.

Revis dominated the CB position and we won football games with a great defense.  Adams "dominating" (as per you) and we're losing football games with a mediocre to bad defense.  Revis dominated the CB position and dragged a sh*t QB to back to back AFC Championship Games.  Jamal Adams "dominated" the safety position and we've never sniffed a winning season and he's 1-4 against the Miami Dolphins.

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

 Would I rather have Mahomes or Watson instead of Jamal Adams absolutely. 

Again, you're not getting the point.

[ZachEY]

Just now, rangerous said:

that assumes bowles and whoever his offensive coordinator is can work with either qb and also presupposes mac got the guy some serious oline help.  i have thought about this a little.  imo bates was more than a little maligned for last season.  darnold was performing pretty well at the end and the oline blocking was better.

Sure, if your argument is that no one who's better than Jamal Adams or more valuable than Jamal Adams could be good on the Jets, then you can hide behind that with literally anyone.  Can't trade Jamal Adams for Peyton Manning throwing to Randy Moss in their primes, because Todd Bowles.

It also ignores that some of these holes could be filled with the 4 extra high draft picks we would have had.

[Paradis]

29 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

As someone who generally isn't a lunatic, but who supports keeping Adams, are you comfortable giving him Landon Collins money?  And if so, how do you think that helps the Jets win a championship when the team has been awful when Jamal Adams has been here for cheap?

I feel like too much of this is driven by the "who drafts a box safety at #6" narrative. That a different conversation - and it is what it is now. 

Why i want to keep him and pay him Landon Collins money (yes, is your answer)?.... 

• We can afford it right now. Few extensions coming in the immediate future - b/c fck you Mike Maccagnan, you drafted hot garbage.
• Where else is that money going to go? The Ryan Khalil's and Tru Johnsons of FA?.... faaaack.
• I don't think he fits the bill of "sell your assets for the rebuild"... Robbie, sure. Leo, yup... Jamal is part of the franchise glue at the moment. Still entering his prime. Still the face of the team, and a motivator... which we haven't had in a long time. No more Mangolds in the locker room.

What i do disagree with - is this "low impact" label he's gets slapped with.... man, teams go to the SB in 3053 different ways. Coaching and QB play are the only consistent PARTS of the Lombardi recipe... beyond that, teams have done with WRs (ARZ), some with Pass rushers (DEN), with stout olines and secondaries, etc etc... There's lots of ways to skin that cat

You just,need a few really good players. Don't matter where, but you need some ballers. Jamal is a baller IMO.

[joewilly12]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

lol the bold is the ultimate cop-out answer.  I'll answer this one in this way:  If it's in JD's long term plans to build the defense around Jamal Adams, I don't think he'll be a very good GM here.  He'll be strapping one hand behind his back in the process given how many needs we have at premium positions.

As for the compensation, of course we want a blockbuster deal.  We're just quibbling over what that should/could look like.  

No cop out the answer is something you don't want to hear. 

8 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I'm looking at the actual market for safeties, the most recent contracts, and Jamal Adams on words, including comparisons of himself to Tom Brady and Aaron Donald.  I'm using the data that's available.  You're just using words.

"Hate" has nothing to do with it.  It is not smart to pay top dollar to a SS.  The most recent example of a team that did this is the 3-11 Washington Redskins.  They are not a good model.

And do you also understand that while draft picks are a "what if," they are also not coming in at 15M per year, and may play positions that effect the game more?  The NFL has a salary cap, so you have to choose how you allocate resources.  If I can get two decent picks, and 15M not spent, for a SS, I'm happy to roll the dice on those picks.

Who cares who you wanted in the 2019 draft?  It's irrelevant to this conversation.

Jamal Adams isn't even the best defensive player on the team right now.  CJ Mosely is better, and we shouldn't have paid him either.  Hell, if Blessen Austin can become an actual player, it'll be more valuable to this defense than Jamal Adams.

Revis dominated the CB position and we won football games with a great defense.  Adams "dominating" (as per you) and we're losing football games with a mediocre to bad defense.  Revis dominated the CB position and dragged a sh*t QB to back to back AFC Championship Games.  Jamal Adams "dominated" the safety position and we've never sniffed a winning season and he's 1-4 against the Miami Dolphins.

Jamal Adams is the best defensive player on the NY Jets thats a fact. 

Surrounded by rookies and JAG's our secondary is bad with or without him. 

Bless Austin great so far I think I also first started talking him up on this forum after consulting with Rutgers players and coaches before many even heard of him other than the 6th round pick from Rutgers. 

Our D pretty decent with Jamal Adams get an edge rusher,bolster the secondary and we can be talking great D. 

8 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Again, you're not getting the point.

The point is yes Mahomes and Watson would have been the better pick/ 

The other point is you hate Jamal Adams. 

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I feel like too much of this is driven by the "who drafts a box safety at #6" narrative. That a different conversation - and it is what it is now. 

Why i want to keep him and pay him Landon Collins money (yes, is your answer)?.... 

•  We can afford it right now. Few extensions coming in the immediate future - b/c fck you Mike Maccagnan, you drafted hot garbage.
•  Where else is that money going to go? The Ryan Khalil's and Tru Johnsons of FA?.... faaaack.
• I don't think he fits the bill of "sell your assets for the rebuild"... Robbie, sure. Leo, yup... Jamal is part of the franchise glue at the moment. Still entering his prime. Still the face of the team, and a motivator... which we haven't had in a long time. No more Mangolds in the locker room.

 What i do disagree with - is this "low impact" label he's gets slapped with.... man, teams go to the SB in 3053 different ways. Coaching and QB play are the only consistent PARTS of the Lombardi recipe... beyond that, teams have done with WRs (ARZ), some with Pass rushers (DEN), with stout olines and secondaries, etc etc... 

You just,need a few really good players. Don't matter where, but you need some ballers. Jamal is a baller IMO.

I don't agree with much of this, but I appreciate the well thought out and thorough response.

We also could afford Tru, but that wasn't a good idea.  I'd rather have two draft picks, and at premium positions, and perhaps use that 15M on an average strong safety and an upgrade on the offensive line.  While we certainly can afford a big ticket player, we have enough holes to necessitate multiple players, and I think it's short sighted and a mistake to sacrifice quality elsewhere, to invest in Adams.  Most importantly, perhaps, we need to spend money (and draft picks) to upgrade this offensive line.  We have a decision coming on Sam Darnold, a much more expensive one than Adams, and we absolutely must eliminate the poor offensive line excuse from his evaluation.  Another year where we are left wondering what he'll do with better protection and we're in big trouble come decision time about committing to Darnold for another 5 years at 20M+ per.

I don't agree that it's about the draft anymore.  Yes, it's still something that I'm not happy about, but the same reason you don't draft him at 6 is the same reason you don't pay him 15M.  What he does just doesn't contribute enough to wins.

[ZachEY]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

The point is yes Mahomes and Watson would have been the better pick/ 

The other point is you hate Jamal Adams. 

No.  Rangerous said NO ONE would be a better pick.  JF80 and I said Mahommes/Watson would be.  You then literally said, NO ONE SAID MAHOMMES AND WATSON WOULDN'T BE BETTER despite Rangerous just saying NO ONE would be, and you +1ing the post.

Good lord... This is why no one actually bothers to talk football with you, and just makes jokes about you.

[joewilly12]

Just now, TeddEY said:

No.  Rangerous said NO ONE would be a better pick.  JF80 and I said Mahommes/Watson would be.  You then literally said, NO ONE SAID MAHOMMES AND WATSON WOULDN'T BE BETTER despite Rangerous just saying NO ONE would be, and you +1ing the post.

Good lord... This is why no one actually bothers to talk football with you, and just makes jokes about you.

Misinterpretation and hate getting in your way of talking football. 

Put me on ignore, I just solved your problem. 

Happy and Safe holidays and a better new year. 

joewilly12 

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I don't agree with much of this, but I appreciate the well thought out and thorough response.

We also could afford Tru, but that wasn't a good idea.  I'd rather have two draft picks, and at premium positions, and perhaps use that 15M on an average strong safety and an upgrade on the offensive line.  While we certainly can afford a big ticket player, we have enough holes to necessitate multiple players, and I think it's short sighted and a mistake to sacrifice quality elsewhere, to invest in Adams.  Most importantly, perhaps, we need to spend money (and draft picks) to upgrade this offensive line.  We have a decision coming on Sam Darnold, a much more expensive one than Adams, and we absolutely must eliminate the poor offensive line excuse from his evaluation.  Another year where we are left wondering what he'll do with better protection and we're in big trouble come decision time about committing to Darnold for another 5 years at 20M+ per.

I don't agree that it's about the draft anymore.  Yes, it's still something that I'm not happy about, but the same reason you don't draft him at 6 is the same reason you don't pay him 15M.  What he does just doesn't contribute enough to wins.

at some point the jets are going to have to decide if they want to be offense or defense.  not paying adams and trading him for picks to shore up the offense is the best way to do this.  

[ZachEY]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Misinterpretation and hate getting in your way of talking football. 

Put me on ignore, I just solved your problem. 

 Happy and Safe holidays and a better new year. 

joewilly12 

 

[Apache 51]

4 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

No.  Rangerous said NO ONE would be a better pick.  JF80 and I said Mahommes/Watson would be.  You then literally said, NO ONE SAID MAHOMMES AND WATSON WOULDN'T BE BETTER despite Rangerous just saying NO ONE would be, and you +1ing the post.

Good lord... This is why no one actually bothers to talk football with you, and just makes jokes about you.

 

3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Misinterpretation and hate getting in your way of talking football. 

Put me on ignore, I just solved your problem. 

Happy and Safe holidays and a better new year. 

joewilly12 

 

[ZachEY]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

at some point the jets are going to have to decide if they want to be offense or defense.  not paying adams and trading him for picks to shore up the offense is the best way to do this.  

At some point the Jets need to decide if they want to be competitive.  Paying a guy who couldn't get you there cheaply 15M per instead of maximizing his value by opening the cap space and getting potentially two starters at more valuable positions is the best way to do this.  I'm not sure if the side of the ball is relevant.

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, Apache 51 said:

 

 

Yes Happy Holidays. 

[Apache 51]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Yes Happy Holidays. 

You didn't like my joke?

[joewilly12]

Just now, Apache 51 said:

You didn't like my joke?

I did I said Happy Holidays. 

[Paradis]

15 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I don't agree with much of this, but I appreciate the well thought out and thorough response.

We also could afford Tru, but that wasn't a good idea.  I'd rather have two draft picks, and at premium positions, and perhaps use that 15M on an average strong safety and an upgrade on the offensive line.  While we certainly can afford a big ticket player, we have enough holes to necessitate multiple players, and I think it's short sighted and a mistake to sacrifice quality elsewhere, to invest in Adams.  Most importantly, perhaps, we need to spend money (and draft picks) to upgrade this offensive line.  We have a decision coming on Sam Darnold, a much more expensive one than Adams, and we absolutely must eliminate the poor offensive line excuse from his evaluation.  Another year where we are left wondering what he'll do with better protection and we're in big trouble come decision time about committing to Darnold for another 5 years at 20M+ per.

I don't agree that it's about the draft anymore.  Yes, it's still something that I'm not happy about, but the same reason you don't draft him at 6 is the same reason you don't pay him 15M.  What he does just doesn't contribute enough to wins.

You're logic isn't off - but you've put all your faith/argument chips into the "IF" pile... IF we draft an impact position with his pick (and not a Dee Millner).... IF the player doesn't bust.... IF the FAs we sign instead don't suck... that's A LOT of IFs when i'm staring at a sure thing in Adams. I know what were getting there.

There are no easy fixes for the carnage Idzik and Macc left behind. It's going to take selling of some resources (Leo), letting some guys get overpaid elsewhere (Robbie) and hanging onto some roster adhesive (Adams) while we stop fcking up the draft.