Adoni Beast Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 23 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: QB with single digit nonsense: https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/4360310/trevor-lawrence I'm not a big Trevor Lawrence fan and Zach Wilson should never have been put in a position to play this year. That's on Douglas more than Wilson. The main point I'm making is that with this team and defense, a QB who can gives us 3-4 TDs per game but is throwing 2 picks per game is much more valuable than the play it safe, sub 200 yard, 0 TDs, 0 INTs, 1 fumble games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said: QB with single digit nonsense: https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/4360310/trevor-lawrence Sir, what does this have to do w/ Zach Wilson's historic inability to score TD's? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, JiF said: Sir, what does this have to do w/ Zach Wilson's historic inability to score TD's? Everything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreened Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said: QB with single digit nonsense: https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/4360310/trevor-lawrence Is Trevor Lawrence being an average QB supposed to make us feel better about Zach Wilson being an all time bust? Not sure I follow the point of this. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeNamathsFurCoat Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Adoni Beast said: I'm not a big Trevor Lawrence fan and Zach Wilson should never have been put in a position to play this year. That's on Douglas more than Wilson. The main point I'm making is that with this team and defense, a QB who can gives us 3-4 TDs per game but is throwing 2 picks per game is much more valuable than the play it safe, sub 200 yard, 0 TDs, 0 INTs, 1 fumble games. Yes, because the defense is good enough to overcome aggressive interceptions so long as the offense scores a few TDs. A deep throw INT is tantamount to a punt. The defense, while statistically elite, has been unable to score, and I’m not sure it’s fair to place that burden on any defense, even the ‘85 Bears. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 10 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: Everything! Not really but, you're not proving anything to me. I was the most vocal person on the board to claim there was nothing generational about Lawrence. I told everyone that Zach would be a bust. I said Mac Jones was the mush. I wanted the guy who broke an NFL record and who was #6 in this category last year on the worst team in Football and is currently, #2 in the NFL in this category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, JiF said: Not really but, you're not proving anything to me. I was the most vocal person on the board to claim there was nothing generational about Lawrence. I told everyone that Zach would be a bust. I said Mac Jones was the mush. I wanted the guy who broke an NFL record and who was #6 in this category last year on the worst team in Football and is currently, #2 in the NFL in this category. Bruh. False. Search engine. But yea, we were right and should be running the team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, JiF said: Not really but, you're not proving anything to me. I was the most vocal person on the board to claim there was nothing generational about Lawrence. I told everyone that Zach would be a bust. I said Mac Jones was the mush. I wanted the guy who broke an NFL record and who was #6 in this category last year on the worst team in Football and is currently, #2 in the NFL in this category. I'm mostly joking around at the moment but I'm more and more convinced that, given a competent OL and 3 WRs (e.g. GW and 2 competent WRs), Zach will prove his critics wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: I'm mostly joking around at the moment but I'm more and more convinced that, given a competent OL and 3 WRs (e.g. GW and 2 competent WRs), Zach will prove his critics wrong. What does "prove his critics wrong" mean? Are you saying he wont be one of the biggest busts in NFL history anymore or are you saying he'll be a franchise QB? Because those are 2 very different things and are worlds apart from each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoni Beast Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 12 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said: Yes, because the defense is good enough to overcome aggressive interceptions so long as the offense scores a few TDs. A deep throw INT is tantamount to a punt. The defense, while statistically elite, has been unable to score, and I’m not sure it’s fair to place that burden on any defense, even the ‘85 Bears. This is so true regarding the long INTs = a punt. Throwing deep passes keeps the defense honest and backs off a little. If you throw some long INTs so be it....as long as we're scoring touchdowns. I do think that a lot of the issues with the offense is how Saleh is dictating it to run, which has been the case since he's been here....conservative / Rex Ryan / let my D win it for ya'll. It's simple math though, if our average is about 19 points / game with this conservative offense which is generating an average of 16 per game...well thats a -3. If an additional INT or two a game generates us 10+ points at 26 but is costing us 7 points, well now you break even at 0 and at least have a better shot at winning some games. Take away all the non-supported math I just provided and let the kid throw the ball the first quarter...play a little hurry up first quarter...generate a lead of 7 or 10 and then slow it down and let the D do it's thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, JiF said: What does "prove his critics wrong" mean? Are you saying he wont be one of the biggest busts in NFL history anymore or are you saying he'll be a franchise QB? Because those are 2 very different things and are worlds apart from each other. There has to be something in the middle of those 2 options. I think he'll end up being a legit starting QB (not necessarily a FQB but a solid starter, or maybe even better). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: I'm mostly joking around at the moment but I'm more and more convinced that, given a competent OL and 3 WRs (e.g. GW and 2 competent WRs), Zach will prove his critics wrong. I'm old enough to remember when Patrick Mahomes had a worse rated OL than the current Jets and also lost all of his WRs and still won the SB last year. And Mahomes didn't have nearly as good a defense as this year's Jets. Also old enough to remember the pre-draft descriptions of Zach being "mahomes-like". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: There has to be something in the middle of those 2 options. I think he'll end up being a legit starting QB (not necessarily a FQB but a solid starter, or maybe even better). A legit stater or better, by my definition is a FQB. And well, I disagree that is in Zach Wilson's future. I do think he can be a journeyman back up and maybe one day the light goes off like Geno but that is rare and I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 Just now, greenwichjetfan said: I'm old enough to remember when Patrick Mahomes had a worse rated OL than the current Jets and also lost all of his WRs and still won the SB last year. And Mahomes didn't have nearly as good a defense as this year's Jets. Also old enough to remember the pre-draft descriptions of Zach being "mahomes-like". It's unfair to compare anyone to Mahomes, who has GOAT potential (even though, realistically, TB12 probably put it out of reach for anyone else ever). I'm just saying I think there is a situation where ZW can succeed in this league (competent OL and at least 3 quality WRs). I still think people are missing the boat on this kid. I see a lot of positives. The fact that he hasn't completely lost confidence in the face of overwhelming negativity (even from Broadway Joe) is an absolutely tremendous sign, imo. And I agree with those who said he "lowkey balled" against the Raiders. People are still way too focused on year 1 & 2 Zach WIlson. He is a different QB in year 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoni Beast Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: It's unfair to compare anyone to Mahomes, who has GOAT potential (even though, realistically, TB12 probably put it out of reach for anyone else ever). I'm just saying I think there is a situation where ZW can succeed in this league (competent OL and at least 3 quality WRs). I still think people are missing the boat on this kid. I see a lot of positives. The fact that he hasn't completely lost confidence in the face of overwhelming negativity (even from Broadway Joe) is an absolutely tremendous sign, imo. And I agree with those who said he "lowkey balled" against the Raiders. People are still way too focused on year 1 & 2 Zach WIlson. He is a different QB in year 3. I thought he played good against the Raiders, although that INT was brutal. That partial step out of bounds negated a TD, a penalty took away another, G Wilson dropped a time that would have set us up in the red zone. Those are 3 plays that fall our way and we blow out the Raiders. Hopefully, they let him throw the ball the rest of the way because our run game is awful. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said: I thought he played good against the Raiders, although that INT was brutal. That partial step out of bounds negated a TD, a penalty took away another, G Wilson dropped a time that would have set us up in the red zone. Those are 3 plays that fall our way and we blow out the Raiders. Hopefully, they let him throw the ball the rest of the way because our run game is awful. I'm not sure I agree that the INT was "brutal". I know Orlovsky and Bart Scott had completely different takes on it, which complicates things. And probably the right decision would've been to throw to Breece on that play. Regardless, I thought the defender made a good play on it. Ftr, I think Zach still has plenty of work to do. But the more I look at it, the more I think he can get actually get there. Quote Hopefully, they let him throw the ball the rest of the way because our run game is awful. I think our run game will improve if and when our passing game becomes more of a threat. I really want to see Hackett let Izzy be RB1 and split Breece out wide as our 2nd receiving option. I think that would create enough options in the passing game to make it more dangerous. I'm glad we'll have Ruckert in there more too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsplayer21 Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 2 hours ago, JiF said: I have to laugh here because there were some strong debates in the offseason regarding production at the QB position and I consistently sited this as one of, if not the, most important stat for a QB....and was told, it's a meaningless stat. lmfao. And here we are, on 36 drive TD drought that is bound to continue on Sunday. Ya touchdowns are a meaningless stats 🙈🤣. The defense of this kid is beyond laughable, it’s down right pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsplayer21 Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Ulrich said: Remember for tempering hopes: This is a 4-5 in name only. More like 2-7 and could easily be 1-8. Giants win was a miracle and Philly not far behind. Week 1 was a fluky win with Garrett Wilson’s circus TD catch and Xavier’s walk off punt TD. This isn’t a solid 4-5 on the rise. Unfortunately it seems like the opposite. Could easily be a winless team. If Josh Allen and Russell Wilson didn’t have bad games, special team td, we are 0-9. Glad we played Denver when Russell was still figuring it out, he is playing like more of his younger years now. But at the same time, if we had a qb who just wasn’t the worst in the NFL, we could easily be 7-2, 6-3 at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 Just now, Jetsplayer21 said: Could easily be a winless team. If Josh Allen and Russell Wilson didn’t have bad games, special team td, we are 0-9. Glad we played Denver when Russell was still figuring it out, he is playing like more of his younger years now. But at the same time, if we had a qb who just wasn’t the worst in the NFL, we could easily be 7-2, 6-3 at least. If we had Tim Boyle in there, we'd be 8-1 at minimum!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsplayer21 Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: If we had Tim Boyle in there, we'd be 8-1 at minimum!!!!! No Tim Boyle would probably almost be as bad as Zach. But JD and his almighty qb wisdom must think he is great too, since he hasn’t entertained any upgrade there. Meanwhile homers coming from 3rd and 4th on depth charts of some teams are easily outshining zach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynard13 Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Adoni Beast said: I'll take a QB who throws for 40 TDs and 30 INTs anyway over this single digit nonsense. You can't win if you don't score points. I appreciate that he's cut down on picks, but we're spinning our wheels here. JaMEIS wINSTON SAY HI. Garrett Wilson would build a statue of him outside MetLife if he was our QB. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 JaMEIS wINSTON SAY HI. Garrett Wilson would build a statue of him outside MetLife if he was our QB. Jameis Winston under Saleh's handcuff regime would have single digits TDs as well. Especially after his 80th int.Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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