Like the logic, GJ&H, and got some questions

[RichardSeymour]

For Bit, Riggo, any draft experts as well.... and heck, the rest of you knuckleheads.

I'm currently working on 39 credits this semester (16 is normal at my school) between four old incompletes to boost the GPA, and 6 different courses. So I've dropped off the face of the earth. Sorry about that. Only time for one forum at this point and I'm even toning it down on my home turf at KFFL. Hope everyone's doing well. Can't say enough about how p*ssed I am that Bradway is gone--- though for what it's worth, I told you so back after the 2003 draft. Just remember that I was banging that drum louder than anyone. I'm wrong so often I gotta take pride when I get one right.

Anyway, just was looking at GJs mock at draft daddy, and I like his logic on the RBs--- while CB, DE/OLB are also needs, and while WR is a *bigger* need than anything, I think the RBs are going to determine the Pats draft--- if we like any of the "possible five" (To me Williams, White, Maroney, Addai, Calhoun look like the five we could plausibly draft and hope they were starters for 2007), we'll want to walk out with one of them.

Not that we might not be perfectly happy taking Addai in the 2nd even if he was 4th out of the 5 on our list--- but we'd need to get someone if we liked anyone and didn't have to bleed through the nose for them.

I keep wondering about DeAngelo Williams. I could see us passing on him for size (particularly his weight. Plenty of 5-9 RBs to well, but the ones that do usually carry something like 220).... but then he's awfully tempting otherwise.

If we think he can handle the load, a sizable tradeup for him wouldn't shock me if the board warranted it. Other than him though I have trouble buying the other guys as value at 21 from what I've heard, but it sounds like Maroney's stock is rising?

Anyway, comments on these five RBs, on possible 1st rd CBs for the Pats, and on Bobby Carpenter and any other potential DE/OLB types is welcome. I'm not digging Greenway though--- he looks like a "regular" LB to me, and if we take an LB I think the #1 with a bullet trait we're going to look for is passrushing from the edge.

Best wishes all, I wish your team wasn't in good hands. I'm hoping Mangini is merely "very good".

[RSJ]

Welcome back RS.

Glad everything is going well for you.

Nice Post.

[stormshadow19]

39 credit hours in a semseter? Do you sleep?

Then again, I've only got 16 credit hours, yet I'm at school 40 hours a week. Go figure.

[RichardSeymour]

39 credit hours in a semseter? Do you sleep?

Then again, I've only got 16 credit hours, yet I'm at school 40 hours a week. Go figure.

23 page paper last weekend, 4 credits. Working on a 15 pager for another incomplete, that and a final gets me 4 more credits. Polishing my 50 page senior thesis, that's 4 credits, plus 2 for the research seminar I did.

I have just over a month to go, 4 tests, 80+ pages of paper to do.

I do sleep, but my workout plan has gone to ****.

All this so I can pull my GPA up to a lofty 3.2 or something.

[Jetlag]

23 page paper last weekend, 4 credits. Working on a 15 pager for another incomplete, that and a final gets me 4 more credits. Polishing my 50 page senior thesis, that's 4 credits, plus 2 for the research seminar I did.

I have just over a month to go, 4 tests, 80+ pages of paper to do.

I do sleep, but my workout plan has gone to ****.

All this so I can pull my GPA up to a lofty 3.2 or something.

How much booze did you drink to dig that hole?

[RichardSeymour]

How much booze did you drink to dig that hole?

Heh. Not nearly enough. My GPA hole is a result of some immaturity, and a lot of wrestling with ADD--- freshman, sophmore years I'd sit down to write a paper and I couldn't.... like, I just couldn't. Throw in a bit of insomnia and my sleep cycle quickly went to hell, missed classes like crazy...

Wish I could say I was having a lot of fun, but most of it was sports on the internet, playing comp games and chilling with friends, etc. Not nearly enough partying.

[GimmeShelter]

Astonished to see RSeymour found himself/disappeared at the exact time and as predicted,(early last season)when the PATS became slightly better than mediocre.

On a serious note glad things are going well RS.

[bitonti]

persnally I feel Deangelo Williams is one of the least risky picks in the first round. He's a dominator that routinely lit up good defenses, even though everyone knew he was going to get the ball. Also Lawrence Moroney is a quality player who has the potential to be the best (yes I said it) RB in the first round. A cold weather back who also could be picked by NE - as for who is better i think it's personal preference but I would take Williams. That guy can make something out of nothing. maroney had alot of help with that Minn OL. Still he's a better prospect than Marion Barber, and he did good last year. Maybe you can't go wrong with either.

[PFSIKH]

persnally I feel Deangelo Williams is one of the least risky picks in the first round. He's a dominator that routinely lit up good defenses, even though everyone knew he was going to get the ball. Also Lawrence Moroney is a quality player who has the potential to be the best (yes I said it) RB in the first round. A cold weather back who also could be picked by NE - as for who is better i think it's personal preference but I would take Williams. That guy can make something out of nothing. maroney had alot of help with that Minn OL. Still he's a better prospect than Marion Barber, and he did good last year. Maybe you can't go wrong with either.

I have trouble wrapping my fingers around the idea that the Patriots would tab a RB in the first. My only reasoning is when they passed on Jackson. They could have had a RB in the mold they are looking for: big.

IMHO the Patriots view RB as a position that can be filled with lesser talent in the later rounds and for about the same production. A good or crappy back behind a OL that cannot block is going to turn out about the same YPC.

[RichardSeymour]

Astonished to see RSeymour found himself/disappeared at the exact time and as predicted,(early last season)when the PATS became slightly better than mediocre.

On a serious note glad things are going well RS.

Heh, we haven't fallen as far as the Jets, why exactly would I stop coming to this board?

Though yeah, I'd bust my chops too if I was you. Better that than thinking about how your OL is going to lead to a revolving door at QB this year.

But I say that with love. Hope everything's going well for all of you dopes. Sick as it is, I sort of miss you guys.

Good god, I can't believe I just said that.

[stormshadow19]

Heh, we haven't fallen as far as the Jets, why exactly would I stop coming to this board?

Though yeah, I'd bust my chops too if I was you. Better that than thinking about how your OL is going to lead to a revolving door at QB this year.

But I say that with love. Hope everything's going well for all of you dopes. Sick as it is, I sort of miss you guys.

Good god, I can't believe I just said that.

Awww... I think he just said he loves us. Isn't that sweet?

[RichardSeymour]

I have trouble wrapping my fingers around the idea that the Patriots would tab a RB in the first. My only reasoning is when they passed on Jackson. They could have had a RB in the mold they are looking for: big.

IMHO the Patriots view RB as a position that can be filled with lesser talent in the later rounds and for about the same production. A good or crappy back behind a OL that cannot block is going to turn out about the same YPC.

They passed on Jackson with a 2-years-younger-than-now Corey Dillon in hand, and with Mt. Wilfork on the board as the biggest slider of the 1st round. I would hardly assume from that decision that they will be reluctant to take an RB early. Reportedly (Holley IIRC) in the same draft we intended to take Kevin Jones at 32 if he was there.

Our OL's runblocking stinked and sucked last year. Neal regressed from his outstanding '04, and most of the rest of the guys we had out there were underwhelming.

However we lost a lot of guys due to injury on the OL, and while our runblocking pretty much sucked even before that, it might well have settled down better had we stayed healthy and built a rhythm.

Next year we have a projected starting OL of Light-Mankins-Koppen-Neal-Kaczur. By age that's 28-24-27-30-27.... since OL have such a long, slow upwards curve, there's every reason to think that on average our players on the OL should improve a bit from last year. While the rungame was a problem last year, on the blocking side of things it's hard to complain about the starting 5, particularly given that it looks stronger than what we had in 2004.

I don't think we're going to fill the RB slot well from the 5th round, or that we'll try to. In RB-terms Dillon is 42 going on 43 (Martin is due to collect social security benefits next year though). I do think that we're more likely to take an RB in the 2nd or 3rd than the 1st, and I have a tough time seeing us cut Dillon or Faulk.... AND I like Pass a lot as a #3 RB.... but going into the season with Dillon/Faulk/Pass/Evans at RB is just scary to me. I don't trust any of those guys to be a 4.0 ypc carry-the-load guy or anything like it this year. Dillon maybe, but it's very much a crapshoot at this point.

There is EVERY reason to draft an RB this year. RBs provide quick returns and their careers flame out quickly--- this makes them a great early pick for a playoff caliber team as you save a lot of money vs trying to chase one of the few high end RBs in FA. A lousy pick for rebuilding teams, all else equal, but a great one for a team on the edge of being elite again, as the Pats are.

[RichardSeymour]

persnally I feel Deangelo Williams is one of the least risky picks in the first round. He's a dominator that routinely lit up good defenses, even though everyone knew he was going to get the ball. Also Lawrence Moroney is a quality player who has the potential to be the best (yes I said it) RB in the first round. A cold weather back who also could be picked by NE - as for who is better i think it's personal preference but I would take Williams. That guy can make something out of nothing. maroney had alot of help with that Minn OL. Still he's a better prospect than Marion Barber, and he did good last year. Maybe you can't go wrong with either.

Thanks swami. Props on DD.com, I still use it a lot, and really enjoy what the site has become. It's different than most draft sites, but that's a good thing, as you stand out in the crowd and provide stuff that others don't (most draft sites seem to be profiles, mocks, and members only or nothing else).

Bit, is Maroney looking like a definite top 40 guy at this point? If he was on the board at 21, how confident could NE be in his presence with a trade down? At what point is he a reach (I saw him go 17th in one mock)?

Also, feelings on Addai and Calhoun? and of the RBs, who has a shot at being within easy tradeup distance of the 2nd pick (say, who has a shot of not being taken in the first 42 or 43 picks, Pats pick at 51?)

[bitonti]

Thanks swami. Props on DD.com, I still use it a lot, and really enjoy what the site has become. It's different than most draft sites, but that's a good thing, as you stand out in the crowd and provide stuff that others don't (most draft sites seem to be profiles, mocks, and members only or nothing else).

Bit, is Maroney looking like a definite top 40 guy at this point? If he was on the board at 21, how confident could NE be in his presence with a trade down? At what point is he a reach (I saw him go 17th in one mock)?

Also, feelings on Addai and Calhoun? and of the RBs, who has a shot at being within easy tradeup distance of the 2nd pick (say, who has a shot of not being taken in the first 42 or 43 picks, Pats pick at 51?)

thanks for the kind words. Maroney is def top 40 and maybe higher. As i said it's a matter of personal preference and who you ask. He worked out like an animal and could be worth a top 20 pick the question is who will take an RB top 20?

As for reaching my maxim is that a reach isn't a reach until he busts. Someone posted a Kiper mock from 2001 two days before the draft that had your name sake going to the Jets at 19. The Pats took him at 6, maybe that was considered a reach - but it worked out... Reaching is not the end of the world. The Giants probably reached when they took Osi Unemiora a 5th round prospect in the 2nd round - sometimes reaching is a great thing and I don't have problems with that. The basic premise of reaching assumes that people have these guys ranked correctly prior to the draft, history has proven that no one really knows for sure and fuilly 50% of all first round picks are busts (percentages higher in the later rounds).

both are good prospects, but I like Addai more than I like Calhoun. Addai has great speed, quicks, agility, hands, receiving out of backfield and great character. based on workouts, Calhoun might lack that 5th gear to be a gamebreaker.

[PFSIKH]

There is EVERY reason to draft an RB this year. RBs provide quick returns and their careers flame out quickly--- this makes them a great early pick for a playoff caliber team as you save a lot of money vs trying to chase one of the few high end RBs in FA. A lousy pick for rebuilding teams, all else equal, but a great one for a team on the edge of being elite again, as the Pats are.

You make alot of great points.

Here is my point, at the time of the draft, the Patriots did have Dillon pre-renegotiation, but they also had Seymour, Green and Warren. Was there a ned at either position? No, but you can argue given Dillon's age, a greater need was at RB.

I think you made my point with the bold quote above. Why spend a first round pick and first round money on a position that has historically been one of the shortest carers in the NFL. There is better value waiting until the 2nd or later round for a decent productive back especially with Dillon married to the Pats for at least another year or two.

The Patriotrs one two titles with a middling back. IMHO Dillon is closer to 2004 form, for the resons you gave about the OL, then 2005 and the Patriots will return to elite status.

Good having you back.