756 *

[The Troll]

Maybe some people choose not to like Barry because of the way he treats people and treats teammmates. Maybe they don't like him because of his indignite posture when suggestions are made of his wrong doing.

Maybe some people don't like how steroids have cast a shadow over all players and suspicion of any new streak or number.

Maybe some people yearn for sports when you worried about whether the baseball was juiced, and not the players. Or when opposite field homeruns by shortstops occurred once every five years, rather than once every five innings.

Maybe Bonds just represents everything that is wrong in a sport and becomes the poster boy for feeling duped.

I am not sure if that is "mock outrage" because I don't have the ability to gauge every fans individual temperament. I can just speak for myself and tell you I wish the man had not broken the record in the manner that he had to and cast a pall over the game and a cherished record.

As far as Babe Ruth, the man outhomered entire teams by himself, so I feel comfortable in saying that his measure was one of the all time greats, regardless of who was pitching.

I won't begrudge you your want to cheer the record. Please don't begrudge my want to not recognize it with gusto.

I never said I liked Barry Bonds. I don't. I think he is a racist, selfish, prima donna douche-bag.

That being said, every single one of the 756 still went over the fence. You put an asterick next to any era if you look deep enough into it. The same people that are outraged over Bonds will celebrate Griffey, Gwynn, and Ripken. Do I believe any of those three used PEDs? Not personally. But no one can say for sure. Either celebrate them all or celebrate none of them. It was the steroid ERA, not just Barry Bonds.

I am not sure how Bonds became the "poster boy for being duped". If anything, I would give that title to McGwire or Sosa. Barry Bonds is only beloved in one place on Earth: San Francisco. Sammy and McGwire were beloved everywhere. How can you be duped by someone you despised in the first place?

[Scott Dierking]

I never said I liked Barry Bonds. I don't. I think he is a racist, selfish, prima donna douche-bag.

That being said, every single one of the 756 still went over the fence. You put an asterick next to any era if you look deep enough into it. The same people that are outraged over Bonds will celebrate Griffey, Gwynn, and Ripken. Do I believe any of those three used PEDs? Not personally. But no one can say for sure. Either celebrate them all or celebrate none of them. It was the steroid ERA, not just Barry Bonds.

I am not sure how Bonds became the "poster boy for being duped". If anything, I would give that title to McGwire or Sosa. Barry Bonds is only beloved in one place on Earth: San Francisco. Sammy and McGwire were beloved everywhere. How can you be duped by someone you despised in the first place?

Troll, basically I thought YOU were saying that the media made the public have this mock outcry.

I don't believe that.

Many people were salty towards Bonds when he approached the single season record-pre public knowledge of the doping. Myself among those.

Why you would give someone a rousing celebration who you felt was racist, selfish and a primma donna, I can't understand. And that is not for me to understand. But please don't tell me that my dislike of teh player is fed by a media bias. That belittles all of us, or at least most of us.

[The Troll]

Troll, basically I thought YOU were saying that the media made the public have this mock outcry.

I don't believe that.

Many people were salty towards Bonds when he approached the single season record-pre public knowledge of the doping. Myself among those.

Why you would give someone a rousing celebration who you felt was racist, selfish and a primma donna, I can't understand. And that is not for me to understand. But please don't tell me that my dislike of teh player is fed by a media bias. That belittles all of us, or at least most of us.

I did not want a rousing celebration for Bonds. Truthfully, I was hoping he broke the record on the road, because he did not deserve to have 40,000 cheer him. I also don't think he should have had 40,000 people boo him raucously. The reaction in San Diego was about right.

There are a lot of people that are weak-minded and will believe whatever the media wants them to believe. That is why Michael Vick was a "top ten QB" until the public found out he was an animal lover. The casual fan, I believe, would have celebrated this achievement if they weren't told how they should react by the media. You can't tell me that some people are not sheep. Or, rather, you can tell me, and I just won't believe you. It is the same reason you turn on a top 40 or modern rock station and hear absolute garbage. Because if they play it, people will buy it, regardless if it's any good or not, just because other people are buying it.

I have not always supported Bonds. In fact, only when he got to 754 did I give in to the inevitable. This is a special thing, something that may never again happen in any of our lifetimes. To sit there, put my hands in my pockets, and turn my back to my television would be doing myself a disservice. JMO.

[toon88]

[Scott Dierking]

I did not want a rousing celebration for Bonds. Truthfully, I was hoping he broke the record on the road, because he did not deserve to have 40,000 cheer him. I also don't think he should have had 40,000 people boo him raucously. The reaction in San Diego was about right.

There are a lot of people that are weak-minded and will believe whatever the media wants them to believe. That is why Michael Vick was a "top ten QB" until the public found out he was an animal lover. The casual fan, I believe, would have celebrated this achievement if they weren't told how they should react by the media. You can't tell me that some people are not sheep. Or, rather, you can tell me, and I just won't believe you. It is the same reason you turn on a top 40 or modern rock station and hear absolute garbage. Because if they play it, people will buy it, regardless if it's any good or not, just because other people are buying it.

I have not always supported Bonds. In fact, only when he got to 754 did I give in to the inevitable. This is a special thing, something that may never again happen in any of our lifetimes. To sit there, put my hands in my pockets, and turn my back to my television would be doing myself a disservice. JMO.

As always, I respect your opinion. It is an informed and diverse one.

Thanks

[penningtonfan82]

This record being broken is a disaster. I'm happy it's over with. Now that it's done, Bonds will more then likely be out of baseball next season. For those who don't think Barry will retire next year, I have to ask, what team is going to take him? Giants aren't gnna take him back, and no one else in the NL is gonna have him on the team. He doesn't move around well, he's only good to DH. And the AL doesn't need Barry, no one in the American League in there right mind is going to sign him. The big teams don't NEED Bonds, and the teams with small pay roll aren't going to be able to PAY him.

[penningtonfan82]

I have not always supported Bonds. In fact, only when he got to 754 did I give in to the inevitable. This is a special thing, something that may never again happen in any of our lifetimes. To sit there, put my hands in my pockets, and turn my back to my television would be doing myself a disservice. JMO.

If A-Rod stays healthy, he WILL break that record.

[Alk]

This record being broken is a disaster. I'm happy it's over with. Now that it's done, Bonds will more then likely be out of baseball next season. For those who don't think Barry will retire next year, I have to ask, what team is going to take him? Giants aren't gnna take him back, and no one else in the NL is gonna have him on the team. He doesn't move around well, he's only good to DH. And the AL doesn't need Barry, no one in the American League in there right mind is going to sign him. The big teams don't NEED Bonds, and the teams with small pay roll aren't going to be able to PAY him.

Yeah because the Yankees didn't sign a washed up steroid user already or anything. There are still teams out there that would take Bonds.

[Jet Moses]

I love the mock outrage over this. They should definitely put an asterick in the record books with Bonds' name. Two spaces above the asterick with Babe Ruth's name that says he played against only white players.

Your comment implies that the Negro League was loaded with far superior pitchers than those Ruth faced. It's a ridiculous statement.

[The Troll]

This record being broken is a disaster. I'm happy it's over with. Now that it's done, Bonds will more then likely be out of baseball next season. For those who don't think Barry will retire next year, I have to ask, what team is going to take him? Giants aren't gnna take him back, and no one else in the NL is gonna have him on the team. He doesn't move around well, he's only good to DH. And the AL doesn't need Barry, no one in the American League in there right mind is going to sign him. The big teams don't NEED Bonds, and the teams with small pay roll aren't going to be able to PAY him.

A player with Bonds' ability will not just be blackballed, no matter how much of a pain in the ass he is. I would say Terrell Owens might be an even bigger pain in the ass than Bonds, not to mention not as good at what he does, but he has no trouble finding a team.

Bonds makes a lot of sense in Anaheim, Seattle, or Oakland. He will stay out West and DH.

[The Troll]

Your comment implies that the Negro League was loaded with far superior pitchers than those Ruth faced. It's a ridiculous statement.

I didn't say they were superior. But, the fact remains that he didn't play against them.

Besides, if baseball wasn't segregated, Bonds would still be chasing Josh Gibson's record.

[Arsis]

I didn't say they were superior. But, the fact remains that he didn't play against them.

Besides, if baseball wasn't segregated, Bonds would still be chasing Josh Gibson's record.

Recent investigations into Negro League statistics, using box scores from newspapers from across the United States, have led to the estimate that, although as many as two thirds of Negro League team games were played against inferior competition (as traveling exhibition games), Josh Gibson still hit between 150 and 200 home runs in official Negro League games. Though this number appears very conservative next to the statements of 800 to 1000 home runs, this research also credits Gibson with a rate of one home-run every 15.9 at bats, which compares favorably with the rates of the top nine home-run hitters in Major League history. The commonly-cited home run totals in excess of 800 are not indicative of his career total in "official" games because the Negro League season was significantly shorter than the major league season; typically consisting of less than 60 games per year. The additional home runs cited were most likely accomplished in "unofficial" games against local and non-Negro League competition of varying strengths, including the oft-cited "barnstorming" competitions. Though these numbers are still based on incomplete evidence, this study does at least provide concrete proof that Josh Gibson was a power hitter of very high caliber.

About Josh Gibson

[Jet Moses]

I didn't say they were superior. But, the fact remains that he didn't play against them.

So what he didn't play against them? That in and of itself doesn't take away the integrity of Ruth's records. The black pitchers he would have faced would not have been any better or worse than the white pitchers he faced.

Besides, if baseball wasn't segregated, Bonds would still be chasing Josh Gibson's record.

Wha...?

[ShadowJet35]

So what he didn't play against them? That in and of itself doesn't take away the integrity of Ruth's records. The black pitchers he would have faced would not have been any better or worse than the white pitchers he faced.

Besides, if baseball wasn't segregated, Bonds would still be chasing Josh Gibson's record.

Wha...?

I don't think Trollie is comparing pitchers racially, he is just saying that there are alot of pitchers in which the Babe didn't go up against, great african american pitchers, such as Satchel Page, who was better than 3/4 of any pitcher pitching around Babe Ruth's time.

[Jet Moses]

I don't think Trollie is comparing pitchers racially, he is just saying that there are alot of pitchers in which the Babe didn't go up against, great african american pitchers, such as Satchel Page, who was better than 3/4 of any pitcher pitching around Babe Ruth's time.

So what? He didn't face Japanese pitchers or Dominican pitchers neither. It's a ridiculous statement and means absolutely nothing.

What does Bonds doing steroids have to do with Ruth not batting against non-white pitchers?

[The Troll]

So what he didn't play against them? That in and of itself doesn't take away the integrity of Ruth's records. The black pitchers he would have faced would not have been any better or worse than the white pitchers he faced.

Besides, if baseball wasn't segregated, Bonds would still be chasing Josh Gibson's record.

Wha...?

I don't think you understood what I was trying to convey in my original post. I am not trying to tarnish Babe Ruth's records. But if you want to put an asterick on Bonds, you can put an asterick on Ruth too. I don't believe there should be an asterick on either. They were both two different eras: the steroid era, and the segregation era. Neither of them were right, and you can't put an asterick on one of them and not the other.

[ShadowJet35]

So what? He didn't face Japanese pitchers or Dominican pitchers neither. It's a ridiculous statement and means absolutely nothing.

What does Bonds doing steroids have to do with Ruth not batting against non-white pitchers?

1) Bonds never took steroids, or at least hasn't been convicted of doing so.

2) Calm down a bit, don't get your thongs in a bunch

3) If you really want to know the basis of the comment I suggest you formally and respectfully PM The Troll and ask him yourself, no reason to get mad at me, I just gave a third person point of view on the conversation.

[ShadowJet35]

I don't think you understood what I was trying to convey in my original post. I am not trying to tarnish Babe Ruth's records. But if you want to put an asterick on Bonds, you can put an asterick on Ruth too. I don't believe there should be an asterick on either. They were both two different eras: the steroid era, and the segregation era. Neither of them were right, and you can't put an asterick on one of them and not the other.

This post should clear everything up, nicely put TT (haha, I called you titty, and I got away with it)

[Jet Moses]

I don't think you understood what I was trying to convey in my original post. I am not trying to tarnish Babe Ruth's records. But if you want to put an asterick on Bonds, you can put an asterick on Ruth too. I don't believe there should be an asterick on either. They were both two different eras: the steroid era, and the segregation era. Neither of them were right, and you can't put an asterick on one of them and not the other.

You just keep going around in circles.

Here let's try this another way, because you are obfuscating big time. If MLB wasn't segregated during Ruth's era, instead of hitting 714 HR's, how many would he have hit?

[The Troll]

About Josh Gibson

That's kind of fishy. Not the quote, but the fact that everyone says Gibson hit 800+ home runs.

I know I have hit at least 1,500 home runs against barnstorming teams. Therefore, I am the true king.

[Jet Moses]

This post should clear everything up, nicely put TT (haha, I called you titty, and I got away with it)

Clear it up?

You both have a ridiculous agenda and everybody reading this thread can see neither one of you has any integrity.

[ShadowJet35]

You just keep going around in circles.

Here let's try this another way, because you are obfuscating big time. If MLB wasn't segregated during Ruth's era, instead of hitting 714 HR's, how many would he have hit?

It seems as if you are just not gonna get it, so stop trying he put it as simple as he could.

Just go back to your milk and cookies youngin'

[The Troll]

You just keep going around in circles.

Here let's try this another way, because you are obfuscating big time. If MLB wasn't segregated during Ruth's era, instead of hitting 714 HR's, how many would he have hit?

I am not going around in circles. I'm saying the same thing I originally said. Just because YOU did not understand it does not mean I'm changing my argument. YOU still don't understand it. I put in black and white in the post you just quote it. If you still don't get it, I'm sorry, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not going to sit here all day and argue with you while YOU try to tell ME what I think.

[Jet Moses]

It seems as if you are just not gonna get it, so stop trying he put it as simple as he could.

Just go back to your milk and cookies youngin'

[Jet Moses]

I am not going around in circles. I'm saying the same thing I originally said. Just because YOU did not understand it does not mean I'm changing my argument. YOU still don't understand it. I put in black and white in the post you just quote it. If you still don't get it, I'm sorry, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not going to sit here all day and argue with you while YOU try to tell ME what I think.

[Jet Moses]

The Troll and ShadowJet35 are two babies who can't back up their stupid *ss statements.

Let this thread be Exhibit A.

[Jet Moses]

...And then they run away. Boo hoo hoo.

[The Troll]

The Troll and ShadowJet35 are two babies who can't back up their stupid *ss statements.

Let this thread be Exhibit A.

It's funny, because I haven't called you a name in this thread. You started in with the name calling and what do you know, you're still doing it. That's real classy. Fine by me. I am glad you decided to start following baseball again last year (when the Mets got good again). Your presence in this forum will help to fill the douche-bag quotient voided by JBF.

By the by, chief, if my comment was what you claim it was (pissing on Babe Ruth's legacy), how come you, in a forum full of Yankee fans, is the only person to take me to task on it, in post #44 of a two day old topic? Maybe that's because everyone else understood what I was talking about? No, it must not be. The Great JetMo could never be wrong. Everyone else are fools, and you are right. Praise be to Allah.

[ShadowJet35]

...And then they run away. Boo hoo hoo.

Your a straaange little man

[Jet Moses]

They dook our marbles and pushed tomatos in our face

[Jet Moses]

It's funny, because I haven't called you a name in this thread. You started in with the name calling and what do you know, you're still doing it. That's real classy. Fine by me. I am glad you decided to start following baseball again last year (when the Mets got good again). Your presence in this forum will help to fill the douche-bag quotient voided by JBF.

By the by, chief, if my comment was what you claim it was (pissing on Babe Ruth's legacy), how come you, in a forum full of Yankee fans, is the only person to take me to task on it, in post #44 of a two day old topic? Maybe that's because everyone else understood what I was talking about? No, it must not be. The Great JetMo could never be wrong. Everyone else are fools, and you are right. Praise be to Allah.

[ShadowJet35]

Now was all that necessary? There is really no reason for that, if you really think it was well................

[Jet Moses]

Aw, whatsamatta buckweat, you can dish it out but can't take it?

Go back to your porch.

[ShadowJet35]

Aw, whatsamatta buckweat, you can dish it out but can't take it?

Go back to your porch.

I don't get it

[The Troll]

I don't get it

I get it.

I'm not sure what JetMo is doing. Trying to earn a vacation from Max?