Here comes the real media -

[PantyHose&Furs]

For all the Patriot apologists out there that claim that those on this board that are disgusted by what the Pats have done, that claim to have lost respect for Goodell in lieu of his handling of Spygate and feel the NFL is not interested in getting to the bottom of this are only doing so b/c we're a division rival...please read the article below.

For all the mods who wish this to blow over b/c it is bad for the NFL...read the article below.

Spygate has brought to light some very questionable practices by the Patriots.

There's been statements that other teams are doing it...including the Jets.

Let's find out...why?

Because it's against the rules and if it's happening lets find out about it and stop it.

Or change the rule.

This won't go away until the truth comes out...so let's get on to that versus this senseless debate about whether it helped, didn't help, etc.

As a huge fan of the NFL I want the truth to come out and the guilty parties punished...even if that means Mangini gets canned.

In my view the NFL is doing us all a dreadful disservice by not aggressively pursuing the truth.

It looks like they are complicit in covering something up...get to the truth so we can all move on.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/080517&sportCat=nfl&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos1

[CoachTsurfing]

this article has way too much common sense in it for anyone to take it seriously.

[bobbyjet69]

Let's see, Belly gets caught, fined and stays in the league. Mangini may be doing it? So let's find out if he is and can him? WTF?

[Lil Bit Special]

For all the Patriot apologists out there that claim that those on this board that are disgusted by what the Pats have done, that claim to have lost respect for Goodell in lieu of his handling of Spygate and feel the NFL is not interested in getting to the bottom of this are only doing so b/c we're a division rival...please read the article below.

For all the mods who wish this to blow over b/c it is bad for the NFL...read the article below.

Spygate has brought to light some very questionable practices by the Patriots.

There's been statements that other teams are doing it...including the Jets.

Let's find out...why?

Because it's against the rules and if it's happening lets find out about it and stop it.

Or change the rule.

This won't go away until the truth comes out...so let's get on to that versus this senseless debate about whether it helped, didn't help, etc.

As a huge fan of the NFL I want the truth to come out and the guilty parties punished...even if that means Mangini gets canned.

In my view the NFL is doing us all a dreadful disservice by not aggressively pursuing the truth.

It looks like they are complicit in covering something up...get to the truth so we can all move on.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/080517&sportCat=nfl&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos1

basically the article says Belichick should either resign or be suspended for a year.

and what will Belichick being suspended for a year do? It will change nothing.

I dont know what truth you are looking for. He cheated. He covered up and protected his ass. The NFL was embarrassed and tried to cover it up so it didnt affect business.

What other truths are you looking for? Im sorry, I just dont see what other truths are going to come out.

The NFL fined Belichick the maximum he could be fined. The NFL took away a #1 draft pick. A #1 draft pick is a severe penalty.

Maybe we should have our government have congressional hearings over this. That will help, right???

Its easy, if you are unhappy with the NFL and their handling of this, vote with your wallet. Stop going to games. Stop watching games/shows/highlights. Boycott sponsors. The NFL only cares about money. They dont care about us the fan. They dont care about integrity. They care about how much money they make.

[Jade Green]

basically the article says Belichick should either resign or be suspended for a year.

and what will Belichick being suspended for a year do? It will change nothing.

I dont know what truth you are looking for. He cheated. He covered up and protected his ass. The NFL was embarrassed and tried to cover it up so it didnt affect business.

What other truths are you looking for? Im sorry, I just dont see what other truths are going to come out.

The NFL fined Belichick the maximum he could be fined. The NFL took away a #1 draft pick. A #1 draft pick is a severe penalty.

Maybe we should have our government have congressional hearings over this. That will help, right???

Its easy, if you are unhappy with the NFL and their handling of this, vote with your wallet. Stop going to games. Stop watching games/shows/highlights. Boycott sponsors. The NFL only cares about money. They dont care about us the fan. They dont care about integrity. They care about how much money they make.

Exactly, and that is what is wrong here, what a SHAM!!!

[Sperm Edwards]

Let's see, Belly gets caught, fined and stays in the league. Mangini may be doing it? So let's find out if he is and can him? WTF?

lol

There is no finding out the truth. They know the truth - he taped from the sideline when he should not have.

Ripping the league apart on a further witch hunt that may yield no "convictions" due to a lack of evidence (I'm sure all the other teams destroyed whatever tapes they still had since spygate started) is hardly a way to rectify the situation.

So BB has a cloud of suspicion around him & perhaps always will. Your solution to putting this mess behind the NFL is to put that cloud around everyone? How is that good for the league?

Truth is, whether you like the result or not (and most of us don't), the league is better off putting it in the past as quickly as possible. I think that's what Goodell was trying to do, but he also screwed up by not gaging the court of public opinion properly - he should have suspended BB for the season and then the witch hunt would end. A draft pick didn't hurt them too much because it was the 31st pick and because they still had another first round pick at #7. And the money, while significant, doesn't seem significant to the public because of how many millions every coach & player & owner makes every year.

So in that regard, Goodell screwed up. I don't know that the best way to correct that screw-up is to punish the entire league, which ends up punishing the fans.

[Jade Green]

lol

There is no finding out the truth. They know the truth - he taped from the sideline when he should not have.

Ripping the league apart on a further witch hunt that may yield no "convictions" due to a lack of evidence (I'm sure all the other teams destroyed whatever tapes they still had since spygate started) is hardly a way to rectify the situation.

So BB has a cloud of suspicion around him & perhaps always will. Your solution to putting this mess behind the NFL is to put that cloud around everyone? How is that good for the league?

Truth is, whether you like the result or not (and most of us don't), the league is better off putting it in the past as quickly as possible. I think that's what Goodell was trying to do, but he also screwed up by not gaging the court of public opinion properly - he should have suspended BB for the season and then the witch hunt would end. A draft pick didn't hurt them too much because it was the 31st pick and because they still had another first round pick at #7. And the money, while significant, doesn't seem significant to the public because of how many millions every coach & player & owner makes every year.

So in that regard, Goodell screwed up. I don't know that the best way to correct that screw-up is to punish the entire league, which ends up punishing the fans.

Excellent points SE, thank god for the voice of reason.

I wonder why BB was not tossed last season, like he should have been?

Did Kraft influence Goodell's decision?

Was he afraid it would some how take the Pats out costing the league some dough or face with the networks?

Why did he burn the tapes, and not thet the competiton comittee see them?

These are the truths I'm interested in, too bad the world may never know.

[Sperm Edwards]

Excellent points SE, thank god for the voice of reason.

I wonder why BB was not tossed last season, like he should have been?

Did Kraft influence Goodell's decision?

Was he afraid it would some how take the Pats out costing the league some dough or face with the networks?

Why did he burn the tapes, and not thet the competiton comittee see them?

These are the truths I'm interested in, too bad the world may never know.

I honestly think Goodell thought the public reaction would be, "Wow - he really put the screws to the Pats."

Instead, the reaction was closer to "That's it???"

No one can predict the future that accurately. Not without stealing signals.

[Jet Moses]

In my view the NFL is doing us all a dreadful disservice by not aggressively pursuing the truth.

I agree with you, but if the NFL nullifies the Pat's SB championships, it would destroy the league 10 times worse. By brushing it under the rug, the NFL's integrity is compromised, but it will never be as devestating as showing that the Patriots clearly cheated to win those SB's.

Ah, I'm about all shot out with the NFL anyway so I figure I won't be watching it much anymore anyway. Goodell is a stooge.

[Lil Bit Special]

well, when he announced on Sept 13th they would take away the Pats #1 pick, no one knew how good the Pats would be or how lousy the 49ers were.

I do believe he should have been suspended back then. I think Goodell made too quick a decision on the penalty.

But, I do not have a problem with the penalties handed down. He did what was best for the league, trying not to hurt the cash cow.

[Jade Green]

Goodell is a stooge.

That gets my Nom for POTW.

[PantyHose&Furs]

I don't care about shoulda, woulda, coulda as it relates to Goodell's punishment at the outset of this issue.

There is a ton more information out there NOW as a result of the NFL and Arlen Spector's interviews with Matt Walsh.

What I'm interested in NOW is an NFL commissioner who has the integrity to conduct an objective evaluation of rights, wrongs, etc. and who is interested in the good of the game.

I don't think brushing it under the rug is what's in the best interest of the game.

It's always the cover-up that makes it worse.

Goodell came in as someone who stood behind the integrity of the game.

He addressed the player behavior issues like a bull dog and is now acting like a lamb when he has another major issue in front of him.

That's the crux of what's bothering me.

Don't insult my intelligence by telling me there's nothing more to see here when it's clear there is much more to this.

Goodell needs to step up. Plain and simple.

[Jade Green]

It is obvious Godell is a stooge, and nothing more is going to be done.

They cheated and got away with it, that's the bottom line the league does not care enough to do anything more about it becuase money is it's only concern.

Other owners probably want this to go away too, they only care about money aswell, and the truth might hurt their pockets.

There is no inegrity left in sports and little in the whole world, especially when it comes to big business.

It's left to your own opinions and in mine the Pats and all their accomplishments under Bill Belicheat are tainted, they cheated and the league bent over.

I have little faith in sports leagues or officials anymore, the integrity of the game is compromised for a buck at every turn in the other leagues and now the NFL with this.

It all leaves a bad taste in my mouth, that is for sure but I was down on the NFL even before spy gate.

After watching the officials totally butcher superbowl 40, I really did not no what to believe and honestly nothing would suprise me now, even if they find out games have been fixed for years.

Think about it with todays technology calls, spots, balls and strikes, goals, can all be called correctly more accurately but they do not impliment it why? I guess they do not want to be right more often, so again why?

[Lil Bit Special]

I don't care about shoulda, woulda, coulda as it relates to Goodell's punishment at the outset of this issue.

There is a ton more information out there NOW as a result of the NFL and Arlen Spector's interviews with Matt Walsh.

What I'm interested in NOW is an NFL commissioner who has the integrity to conduct an objective evaluation of rights, wrongs, etc. and who is interested in the good of the game.

I don't think brushing it under the rug is what's in the best interest of the game.

It's always the cover-up that makes it worse.

Goodell came in as someone who stood behind the integrity of the game.

He addressed the player behavior issues like a bull dog and is now acting like a lamb when he has another major issue in front of him.

That's the crux of what's bothering me.

Don't insult my intelligence by telling me there's nothing more to see here when it's clear there is much more to this.

Goodell needs to step up. Plain and simple.

you say there is much more than what we know... Tell us what you think it is. What new thing are we going to find out... I dont get what a huge investigation is going to tell us.

Its not what in the best interest of the game, its what in the best MONETARY interest for the game. Fans dont care about cheating or integrity. Look at baseball and steroids. Look at the NBA and the ref betting on his games. Did that ruin those sports? No. Strikes and lockouts hurt the leagues.

A coach stealing signals on the sidelines for many years with other teams knowing he was doing it is not that big of a deal. If it was, this would have come out years ago.

[Lil Bit Special]

It is obvious Godell is a stooge, and nothing more is going to be done.

They cheated and got away with it, that's the bottom line the league does not care enough to do anything more about it becuase money is it's only concern.

Other owners probably want this to go away too, they only care about money aswell, and the truth might hurt their pockets.

There is no inegrity left in sports and little in the whole world, especially when it comes to big business.

It's left to your own opinions and in mine the Pats and all their accomplishments under Bill Belicheat are tainted, they cheated and the league bent over.

I have little faith in sports leagues or officials anymore, the integrity of the game is compromised for a buck at every turn in the other leagues and now the NFL with this.

It all leaves a bad taste in my mouth, that is for sure but I was down on the NFL even before spy gate.

After watching the officials totally butcher the superbowl 40, I really did not no what to believe and honestly nothing would suprise me now, even if they find out games have been fixed for years.

nice post.

[Bugg]

basically the article says Belichick should either resign or be suspended for a year.

and what will Belichick being suspended for a year do? It will change nothing.

I dont know what truth you are looking for. He cheated. He covered up and protected his ass. The NFL was embarrassed and tried to cover it up so it didnt affect business.

What other truths are you looking for? Im sorry, I just dont see what other truths are going to come out.

The NFL fined Belichick the maximum he could be fined. The NFL took away a #1 draft pick. A #1 draft pick is a severe penalty.

Maybe we should have our government have congressional hearings over this. That will help, right???

Its easy, if you are unhappy with the NFL and their handling of this, vote with your wallet. Stop going to games. Stop watching games/shows/highlights. Boycott sponsors. The NFL only cares about money. They dont care about us the fan. They dont care about integrity. They care about how much money they make.

Exactly. We-the Jets-go from here. Wasting time and eneregy about this any more is a waste of time, and Arlen Spector is just another pol on the make looking for an easy headline. Bellichick's on notice that doing so in the future will cost him his career. But to get any more wound up is pointless.

[Lil Bit Special]

Exactly. We-the Jets-go from here. Wasting time and eneregy about this any more is a waste of time, and Arlen Spector is just another pol on the make looking for an easy headline. Bellichick's on notice that doing so in the future will cost him his career. But to get any more wound up is pointless.

you mean the arlen specter who's 2nd largest donor is from comcast, the company fighting the nfl over the nfl network?

as I've said in the past, if spygate was a major issue, Specter would have recused himself from this and let another senator take over and investigate.

My second question to be answered: Why arent any other senators, one's who havent been bought by comcast, involved with spygate?

[aec4]

Holding is against the rules, and yet it happens on EVERY SINGLE PLAY. Should we go back and assess penalties to all the plays where it wasn't called?

If reading the other team's signals is wrong, should teams get a penalty every time they audible out of a play?

[Lil Bit Special]

Holding is against the rules, and yet it happens on EVERY SINGLE PLAY. Should we go back and assess penalties to all the plays where it wasn't called?

If reading the other team's signals is wrong, should teams get a penalty every time they audible out of a play?

only the patriots should.

[Cyberjet]

you say there is much more than what we know... Tell us what you think it is. What new thing are we going to find out... I dont get what a huge investigation is going to tell us.

Its not what in the best interest of the game, its what in the best MONETARY interest for the game. Fans dont care about cheating or integrity. Look at baseball and steroids. Look at the NBA and the ref betting on his games. Did that ruin those sports? No. Strikes and lockouts hurt the leagues.

A coach stealing signals on the sidelines for many years with other teams knowing he was doing it is not that big of a deal. If it was, this would have come out years ago.

Whether there is nothing new is not really the question. The real question is whether this scandal has been fully and properly investigated. Your last statement 'that it was no big deal' is more reason to fully investigate the matter.

Let's simply look at logic and reality.

BB has a narcissistic personality disorder ( other classic examples are Bill Clinton and Richard Nixon). For sake of brevity they are intelligent, delusional, paranoid, self righteous, disdain for those outside their inner circle, always perceive themselves to be superior (ie. arrogant) and will rationalize their actions despite the obvious evidence ( " I did not have sex... I misinterpreted the rules...) to the contrary. They show absolutely no remorse. He is classic. They generally have a strong ardent following who benefit from his intelligence and loyalty who will support him to the end. People outside looking in see the deception and the arrogance and want justice.

BB knowingly taped signals illegally.

BB does not waste his or Ernie Adam's time on meaningless tasks and information.

Ernie Adams is the brainchild of the Pats operation with an off the chart analytical mind and photographic memory.

BB and the Patriots did not waste 8 years deciphering signals on tape ( they reviewed the tapes exhaustively to find patterns which is why it is illegal to tape - it provides a distinct advantage - it is not so simple to watch signals during a game and take notes)

A full investigation should be had to determine how they used the tapes. No one bothered to investigate Ernie Adams or Pats personnel -it's a real shame. There is no doubt this impacted games and their outcomes. One game could have given them home field advantage in the playoffs, etc. Whether they lost the game has no bearing on the ethics of cheating (one would only assume they would have lost by more).

I said this from the beginning - a fine, a draft pick has no impact on a narcissistic personality. You need to hit it where it hurts - suspend or remove them from the game and force them to admit what they did was illegal.

[Lil Bit Special]

Whether there is nothing new is not really the question. The real question is whether this scandal has been fully and properly investigated. Your last statement 'that it was no big deal' is more reason to fully investigate the matter.

Let's simply look at logic and reality.

BB has a narcissistic personality disorder ( other classic examples are Bill Clinton and Richard Nixon). For sake of brevity they are intelligent, delusional, paranoid, self righteous, disdain for those outside their inner circle, always perceive themselves to be superior (ie. arrogant) and will rationalize their actions despite the obvious evidence ( " I did not have sex... I misinterpreted the rules...) to the contrary. They show absolutely no remorse. He is classic. They generally have a strong ardent following who benefit from his intelligence and loyalty who will support him to the end. People outside looking in see the deception and the arrogance and want justice.

BB knowingly taped signals illegally.

BB does not waste his or Ernie Adam's time on meaningless tasks and information.

Ernie Adams is the brainchild of the Pats operation with an off the chart analytical mind and photographic memory.

BB and the Patriots did not waste 8 years deciphering signals on tape ( they reviewed the tapes exhaustively to find patterns which is why it is illegal to tape - it provides a distinct advantage - it is not so simple to watch signals during a game and take notes)

A full investigation should be had to determine how they used the tapes. No one bothered to investigate Ernie Adams or Pats personnel -it's a real shame. There is no doubt this impacted games and their outcomes. One game could have given them home field advantage in the playoffs, etc. Whether they lost the game has no bearing on the ethics of cheating (one would only assume they would have lost by more).

I said this from the beginning - a fine, a draft pick has no impact on a narcissistic personality. You need to hit it where it hurts - suspend or remove them from the game and force them to admit what they did was illegal.

so they should have a full investigation to see how they used the tapes? What will that tell us?

nothing new. They wont admit to anything other than they used it for game planning.

Im sorry. I just dont get it. This whole thing is about whether they broke a rule. They did. They were penalized. People were unhappy with the penalty. Oh well.

I just dont know what you people want out of an investigation. It seems like a witch hunt against Belichick. And your comment about him be a narcissist shows this.

You cant go back in time and say, Jets 2002. right there, 4th quarter, they knew what play the jets were running. ... wait, bad example. us fans knew what they were going to call.

Belichick isnt going to come out and say, ok here's the real truth... we cheated in every game. our super bowls are tainted. You arent going to force belichick into admitting anything unless someone proves it first.

more investigating will not bring to light any new tangible evidence that will change what penalties the Pats incur.

and what happens when that investigation shows nothing? Are people still going to scream and yell that there is still more to this......... People who have a hard-on for this wont be happy until Belichick is suspended or kicked out of the league and the Pats success will be tainted.

[Lil Bit Special]

so they should have a full investigation to see how they used the tapes? What will that tell us?

nothing new. They wont admit to anything other than they used it for game planning.

Im sorry. I just dont get it. This whole thing is about whether they broke a rule. They did. They were penalized. People were unhappy with the penalty. Oh well.

I just dont know what you people want out of an investigation. It seems like a witch hunt against Belichick. And your comment about him be a narcissist shows this.

You cant go back in time and say, Jets 2002. right there, 4th quarter, they knew what play the jets were running. ... wait, bad example. us fans knew what they were going to call.

Belichick isnt going to come out and say, ok here's the real truth... we cheated in every game. our super bowls are tainted. You arent going to force belichick into admitting anything unless someone proves it first.

more investigating will not bring to light any new tangible evidence that will change what penalties the Pats incur.

and what happens when that investigation shows nothing? Are people still going to scream and yell that there is still more to this......... People who have a hard-on for this wont be happy until Belichick is suspended or kicked out of the league and the Pats success will be tainted.

I've changed my mind. I want an investigation.

I want to know if Belichick did this when he was with the Jets. I want to know if Parcells knew about this when he was the head coach of teams belichick coached on. I want to know if our AFC championship visit was because of cheating and if its tainted.

I want to know why not one person in 7 years didnt say anything about the pats cheating. I want every coach in the league during this time investigated and interviewed. Anyone who knew about this and did nothing should be kicked out of the league.

I want to know why Mangini/Jets security decided to do something this year. If Mangini was there when this took place, he knew about it. Yet he allowed it to happen his first year here? 3 times! What is Mangini hiding?

I want to know whether other coaches he coached with in the NFL knew about this. Is Crenell cheating in Cleve? Did Fatso Charlie know about this and try to implement in South Bend? How about Nick Saban? COuld he not implement this in Miami?

So, yes. Lets investigate some more. Not to know how they used the tapes, but how they got away with it for so long and who has known about this.

Herm Edwards should be kicked out of the league for knowing they did this and didnt say anything- not even to his reporter friends.

I want to know

[Cyberjet]

so they should have a full investigation to see how they used the tapes? What will that tell us?

nothing new. They wont admit to anything other than they used it for game planning.

Im sorry. I just dont get it. This whole thing is about whether they broke a rule. They did. They were penalized. People were unhappy with the penalty. Oh well.

I just dont know what you people want out of an investigation. It seems like a witch hunt against Belichick. And your comment about him be a narcissist shows this.

You cant go back in time and say, Jets 2002. right there, 4th quarter, they knew what play the jets were running. ... wait, bad example. us fans knew what they were going to call.

Belichick isnt going to come out and say, ok here's the real truth... we cheated in every game. our super bowls are tainted. You arent going to force belichick into admitting anything unless someone proves it first.

more investigating will not bring to light any new tangible evidence that will change what penalties the Pats incur.

and what happens when that investigation shows nothing? Are people still going to scream and yell that there is still more to this......... People who have a hard-on for this wont be happy until Belichick is suspended or kicked out of the league and the Pats success will be tainted.

How does explaining his personality disorder amount to witch hunt?? It explains everything he is about.

If there is an investigation and the Pats do not cooperate then that speaks volumes. Wasn't it Kraft who says that we have nothing to hide???

If BB doesn't cooperate, it doesn't means others will not.

Goodell wants this gone. Since Specter shined his light on the circumstances - the NFL was forced to officially admit that the illegal actions were ongoing since 2000 - not 2006 and 2007 as previously announced. We have BB blatantly lying about his actions ( which Goodell acknowledges), and there is a statement hanging that the signals may have helped predict up to 3/4 of the opposing teams offensive plays. If this isn't new stuff that needs looking into then I don't know what is. The videotaping is the simple illegal action but it is the ramifications of what was done with the tapes and its effect on game preparation and outcomes that is the true crime.

[Lil Bit Special]

How does explaining his personality disorder amount to witch hunt?? It explains everything he is about.

If there is an investigation and the Pats do not cooperate then that speaks volumes. Wasn't it Kraft who says that we have nothing to hide???

If BB doesn't cooperate, it doesn't means others will not.

Goodell wants this gone. Since Specter shined his light on the circumstances - the NFL was forced to officially admit that the illegal actions were ongoing since 2000 - not 2006 and 2007 as previously announced. We have BB blatantly lying about his actions ( which Goodell ackowledges), and there is a statement hanging that the signals may have helped predict up to 3/4 of the opposing teams offensive plays. If this isn't new stuff that needs looking into then I don't know what is. The videotaping is the simple illegal action but it is the ramifications of what was done with the tapes and its effect on game preparation and outcomes that is the true crime.

witchhunt:

BB has a narcissistic personality disorder ( other classic examples are Bill Clinton and Richard Nixon). For sake of brevity they are intelligent, delusional, paranoid, self righteous, disdain for those outside their inner circle, always perceive themselves to be superior (ie. arrogant) and will rationalize their actions despite the obvious evidence ( " I did not have sex... I misinterpreted the rules...) to the contrary. They show absolutely no remorse. He is classic. They generally have a strong ardent following who benefit from his intelligence and loyalty who will support him to the end. People outside looking in see the deception and the arrogance and want justice.

he shows no remorse. he is arrogant. you even say right there people outside looking in want justice... why? because he shows no remorse? because he is arrogant? We should investigate further because he is arrogant?

If BB doesn't cooperate, it doesn't means others will not.

Like who? According to you, his followers wont rat him out. In fact, they were involved with it. Why would they get themselves in trouble?

Goodell wants this gone.

The owners want this gone too. Even Woody. It might affect what matters most, money.

Since Specter shined his light on the circumstances - the NFL was forced to officially admit that the illegal actions were ongoing since 2000 - not 2006 and 2007 as previously announced.

The same Arlen Specter that was bought by Comcast... you know, the cable company fighting with the NFL... Yeah.. he has no motives in this other than the fans... Still, if he cheated once or for 7 years, how does that change anything? If he used these signals just one time in one game, that is just as bad as using them for every play for 7 years. That doesnt change anything. Also, it is impossible to prove that any of this actually had an affect on the game. We can all think it and believe it, but there is no hard proof and never will be.

We have BB blatantly lying about his actions ( which Goodell ackowledges), and there is a statement hanging that the signals may have helped predict up to 3/4 of the opposing teams offensive plays.

predicted 3/4 of the plays? oh please. There is no way to prove this at all. Just some schmuck spouting off... And Belichick lying? Ok. That I have a problem with. Goodell should give him for some punishment for not fessing up..

If this isn't new stuff that needs looking into then I don't know what is. The videotaping is the simple illegal action but it is the ramifications of what was done with the tapes and its effect on game preparation and outcomes that is the true crime.

No none of this is new stuff. If you didnt know in Sept what the Pats did with the tapes then you are pretty naive. And if you thought that they only did it that one time... or one year... please.

We arent going to get anything more out of this. Lots of little crap, but no watershed moment like we were supposed to have with the Super Bowl tape.

And when there is no watershed moment, you will cry that the investigation wasnt thorough enough.

[Cyberjet]

Well it's obvious you feel that the lack of results that will come about from an investigation justify the fact that an investigation should not be carried out. How you know that nothing will come of an investigation is beyond me. The main issue is that the matter has not been properly looked into. The NFL has demonstrated an inabilty to thoroughly investigate a matter that has important ramifications on the integrity of the game. Whether they are able to unearth any new front page info is not the issue. It is an issue of integrity both regarding the illegal activity but also integrity regarding the NFLs willingness to shine the spotlight on itself.

The fact that BB shows no remorse is not a singular reason for pursuing an investigation, but it is obvious that he doesn't understand the ramifications of his actions. He should be suspended for his lying.

[Jade Green]

Holding is against the rules, and yet it happens on EVERY SINGLE PLAY. Should we go back and assess penalties to all the plays where it wasn't called?

If reading the other team's signals is wrong, should teams get a penalty every time they audible out of a play?

Holding is a penalty it's not cheating, if a guy used a lasso to hold what would that be??? **CHEATING!!!** DUH!!!

[Gainzo]

For all the Patriot apologists out there that claim that those on this board that are disgusted by what the Pats have done, that claim to have lost respect for Goodell in lieu of his handling of Spygate and feel the NFL is not interested in getting to the bottom of this are only doing so b/c we're a division rival...please read the article below.

For all the mods who wish this to blow over b/c it is bad for the NFL...read the article below.

Spygate has brought to light some very questionable practices by the Patriots.

There's been statements that other teams are doing it...including the Jets.

Let's find out...why?

Because it's against the rules and if it's happening lets find out about it and stop it.

Or change the rule.

This won't go away until the truth comes out...so let's get on to that versus this senseless debate about whether it helped, didn't help, etc.

As a huge fan of the NFL I want the truth to come out and the guilty parties punished...even if that means Mangini gets canned.

In my view the NFL is doing us all a dreadful disservice by not aggressively pursuing the truth.

It looks like they are complicit in covering something up...get to the truth so we can all move on.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/080517&sportCat=nfl&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos1

Please tell me you didn't just call Gregg Easterbrook the real media.

[Bugg]

I enjoy Easterbrook's articles, but he's gvien to making a big deal out of sports, which is sitll pretty much the toy department of life.

The Pats lost a 1st round pick and were seriously fined. The idea that the US Senate cares about this is pretty much an embarrassment. I'd note the 1998 Broncos and the last few years the 49ers were champs, both won Super Bowls while violating the cap rules. Neither wer ever as seriously punished, so what precedent there was has already been exceeded. And to be subject to more wordy crap from good writers like Easterbrook and bad ones like Lupica only means it was a slow week to get a subject for a column.

Bellichick is a scumbag(which we've known since January 2000), but enough with the manufactured outrage. There's too much of it in every part of America already.

[Lil Bit Special]

Well it's obvious you feel that the lack of results that will come about from an investigation justify the fact that an investigation should not be carried out. How you know that nothing will come of an investigation is beyond me. The main issue is that the matter has not been properly looked into. The NFL has demonstrated an inabilty to thoroughly investigate a matter that has important ramifications on the integrity of the game. Whether they are able to unearth any new front page info is not the issue. It is an issue of integrity both regarding the illegal activity but also integrity regarding the NFLs willingness to shine the spotlight on itself.

The fact that BB shows no remorse is not a singular reason for pursuing an investigation, but it is obvious that he doesn't understand the ramifications of his actions. He should be suspended for his lying.

Who should do this investigation?

It has been 8 months since this started and we have nothing more than the basics- The pats videotaped the opponents play calls. Thats why I dont expect anything to come out, because it hasnt in 8 months.

Im done with this issue. It serves no purpose to continue discussing it. I prefer things come to an end rather than dragging it out. Obviously you disagree. You want to continue this so it leads to further punishment to the Pats or Belichick.

I feel its less important to know how they used this than to know who around the league knew and did nothing. That is more important, but not to people who allow their hatred of a team to cloud the issue.

The only answers I want are what Mangini knew when he coached there and why he waited a season to say something, and what Parcells and Belichick did when they were here. And why if this has gone on for 7 years and people knew about it why nobody ever said anything.

But as I said above.. Im done with this. Im wasting my time.

[drago]

I agree with you, but if the NFL nullifies the Pat's SB championships, it would destroy the league 10 times worse. By brushing it under the rug, the NFL's integrity is compromised, but it will never be as devestating as showing that the Patriots clearly cheated to win those SB's.

Ah, I'm about all shot out with the NFL anyway so I figure I won't be watching it much anymore anyway. Goodell is a stooge.

I don't know how much more i can watch if this is the new direction of the league. Think about all the profits lost from franchises and individual players that would benefited from winning a super bowl.

The Steelers may have been in the midst of their own dynasty had they beaten NE in the 2004 championship game, then they may have won is again the following year.

So many fans, teams, players have been robbed by this, i don't know how much more i can watch/tolerate either.

[serphnx]

I don't know how much more i can watch if this is the new direction of the league. Think about all the profits lost from franchises and individual players that would benefited from winning a super bowl.

The Steelers may have been in the midst of their own dynasty had they beaten NE in the 2004 championship game, then they may have won is again the following year.

So many fans, teams, players have been robbed by this, i don't know how much more i can watch/tolerate either.

Yeah, the Colts too. Who knows how many SBs they would have won. It always did seem weird that Peyton could be so damn bad against the Pats, when he's so good otherwise.