Blackout Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 just tied JIMMIE FOXX on the home run list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anskyruben Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 What do his peers think about him. That's all that matters right ? <insert gay met fan comment> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 What do his peers think about him. That's all that matters right ? <insert gay met fan comment> They think he has never won a championship. Jimmy Foxx did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted July 1, 2008 Author Share Posted July 1, 2008 way to speak on behalf of 500 major leaguers there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 [quote name='Blackout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 They think he has never won a championship. Jimmy Foxx did. Enrique Wilson > A-Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Enrique Wilson > A-Rod For those that have difficulty following at home (DaBrick Wall), a defining tier of top echelon players in any sport, a criteria if you will that helps separate the cream, is championships earned. Players that have the numbers and have the championships > players that have the numbers and don't have the championships. Separates the men from the boys. Unfortunately for ARod, much like his numbers with men on base this year, he falters in that category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 For those that have difficulty following at home (DaBrick Wall), a defining tier of top echelon players in any sport, a criteria if you will that helps separate the cream, is championships earned. Players that have the numbers and have the championships > players that have the numbers and don't have the championships. Separates the men from the boys. Unfortunately for ARod, much like his numbers with men on base this year, he falters in that category. It's a team sport. Dan Marino > Eli Manning. Who has A-Rod's numbers and the championships. Please elaborate. I'm sure Ernie Banks really loves this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 So based on that Derek Jeter = best current active SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anskyruben Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 So all the Red Sux pukes like Hitter.com that never won crap are in that same category. I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 It's a team sport. Dan Marino > Eli Manning. Who has A-Rod's numbers and the championships. Please elaborate. I'm sure Ernie Banks really loves this discussion. The title of this thread has to do with ARod and Jimmy Foxx. Foxx won, ARod has not. Foxx>ARod. If players have equal numbers, and one has championships and teh other doesn't, teh player with teh championships has a higher pedegree. There is nothing new in this and it is used in all teh major sports. And yes, Jeter gets preferential treatment with his peers based on championships. I don't begrudge him that. And yes, Ernie Banks career is lessened, because of a lack of championships. he knows it. Remeber we are talking about peer players and thses are the top of there peers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 The title of this thread has to do with ARod and Jimmy Foxx. Foxx won, ARod has not. Foxx>ARod. If players have equal numbers, and one has championships and teh other doesn't, teh player with teh championships has a higher pedegree. There is nothing new in this and it is used in all teh major sports. And yes, Jeter gets preferential treatment with his peers based on championships. I don't begrudge him that. And yes, Ernie Banks career is lessened, because of a lack of championships. he knows it. Remeber we are talking about peer players and thses are the top of there peers, I didn't see anything in the thread title or posts comparing him to Foxx other than the fact that he has the same number of homers. An accomplishment of which he can be proud. You admit he is at the top rung? Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Is anyone trying to compare A-Rod to Jimmie Foxx? No, but you tried to. All the thread was about was that A-Rod had tied Foxx as far as HOME RUNS go, not anything else. Using championships to define a player is the dumbest logic anyone can use. If A-Rod keeps producing at his normal rate for the rest of his career, he will be a Top 5-10, if not the greatest, player to ever play the game whether he "wins" a championship or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Let's also forget the fact that the majority of the time when Foxx played there were EIGHT TEAMS in each league and those teams also didn't have to go through two more crapshoot rounds of playoffs to get to the World Series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Let's also forget the fact that the majority of the time when Foxx played there were EIGHT TEAMS in each league and those teams also didn't have to go through two more crapshoot rounds of playoffs to get to the World Series. So, are you claiming that the Yankes have many "cheap" championships in their history then? And yes, to all on this thread, A-Rod needs to be compared to teh top echelon of all time players. I have never said differently. The sabermetrics tell us so . But he gets knocked down a peg for never being on the championship club. Pareticularly when the deck has been stacked in his favor for a majority of those years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 So, are you claiming that the Yankes have many "cheap" championships in their history then? And yes, to all on this thread, A-Rod needs to be compared to teh top echelon of all time players. I have never said differently. The sabermetrics tell us so . But he gets knocked down a peg for never being on the championship club. Pareticularly when the deck has been stacked in his favor for a majority of those years. The championships from that era aren't "cheap," but you can't compare them to today's league. It's two separate eras. He shouldn't get knocked down at all. Judging even a bit of players on championships just doesn't make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted July 1, 2008 Author Share Posted July 1, 2008 For those that have difficulty following at home (DaBrick Wall), a defining tier of top echelon players in any sport, a criteria if you will that helps separate the cream, is championships earned. Players that have the numbers and have the championships > players that have the numbers and don't have the championships. Separates the men from the boys. Unfortunately for ARod, much like his numbers with men on base this year, he falters in that category. yeah i really want Brad Johnson over Dan Marino Ty Cobb > Tris Speaker Ted Williams > Stan Musial A-rod > anybody in baseball from 1996-2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVM Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 [quote name='Blackout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted July 1, 2008 Author Share Posted July 1, 2008 when did i compare arod to jimmie foxx? scott, you are just being immature here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 [quote name='Blackout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted July 1, 2008 Author Share Posted July 1, 2008 brad johnson was able to take teams with less talented recievers and win big time games though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 brad johnson was able to take teams with less talented recievers and win big time games though There is something to be said for players that can lead their teams. That being said though, and as my premise originally stated, if you are comparing players of similar 'numbers" or stats and those equate relatively even, teh edge goes to the player who contributed to championships. Really, pretty simple formula and not controversial at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 But he gets knocked down a peg for never being on the championship club. Pareticularly when the deck has been stacked in his favor for a majority of those years. The deck was stacked in his favor in Texas? Seattle? That was a joke, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 The deck was stacked in his favor in Texas? Seattle? That was a joke, right? Don't let facts get in the way of what SD has to say He's on a roll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted July 1, 2008 Author Share Posted July 1, 2008 true dat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 The deck was stacked in his favor in Texas? Seattle? That was a joke, right? Has he won in NY, Bob? Has NY had teh highest payroll and substantial talent in those years? Or are you under the delusion that the Yankees are a nice "underdog' story? Did his Seattle team win MORE games the year after he left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I sure don't get why you equate dollars, and talent. The Yankees do have the highest payroll....but in order to keep that talent they must overpay...as do the Mets How have the Mets done in the NL with the highest payroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I sure don't get why you equate dollars, and talent. The Yankees do have the highest payroll....but in order to keep that talent they must overpay...as do the Mets How have the Mets done in the NL with the highest payroll Jone-Would you agree with the premise that very good players make a difference in their ball club? Especially if that club is thought to have "talent"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Has he won in NY, Bob? Has NY had teh highest payroll and substantial talent in those years? Or are you under the delusion that the Yankees are a nice "underdog' story? Did his Seattle team win MORE games the year after he left? You said the deck was stacked in his favor in "a majority of those years." He has not been with the Yankees for anything close to a majority of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Players are paid on past perfomance in most cases. Horrible contracts that the Yanks have paid out (Pavano, Giambi, Jeter) should not cloud your judgement by todays players value 7 years ago Giambi was the BEST 1st baseman in baseball....he is being paid on what he did with the A's, not yanks Do you think Beltran is worth $20 mill, or would you rather have Ryan Braun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 You said the deck was stacked in his favor in "a majority of those years." He has not been with the Yankees for anything close to a majority of his career. He was with very talented Seattle teams and a Texas team that was a 95 win team 2 years before aAAropd arrived? Bob, should teh arrival of the "best player in baseball" mean an "average" team should have more wins with his arrival? And, should they lose more once he leaves? Bob i am interested in your unbiased opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 RIF=Reading is Fundamental. Do Brad Johnson and Dan Marino have similar numbers in their career? Blackout? Hello? Who has "similar numbers in their career" compared to A-Rod? Jimmie Foxx? Babe Ruth? Who are we comparing him to? Those other superstars with all their championships? Tony Gwynn? Miguel Tejada? Chipper Jones? There is something to be said for players that can lead their teams. That being said though, and as my premise originally stated, if you are comparing players of similar 'numbers" or stats and those equate relatively even, teh edge goes to the player who contributed to championships. Really, pretty simple formula and not controversial at all. Jeter is the best! There it is! You said it again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Who has "similar numbers in their career" compared to A-Rod? Jimmie Foxx? Babe Ruth? Who are we comparing him to? Those other superstars with all their championships? Tony Gwynn? Miguel Tejada? Chipper Jones? Jeter is the best! There it is! You said it again! In this instance, I think that I was pretty clear when I said : J Foxxx > Arod. Can it be spelled out any easier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 He was with very talented Seattle teams and a Texas team that was a 95 win team 2 years before aAAropd arrived? Bob, should teh arrival of the "best player in baseball" mean an "average" team should have more wins with his arrival? And, should they lose more once he leaves? Bob i am interested in your unbiased opinion. My unbiased opinion is that the Yanks should have won championships since Arod got here and that his performance in playoff series is one of several factors in their failure to do so. It is also my unbiased opinion that your constant crying about anything and everything related to the Yankees is really tiresome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 My unbiased opinion is that the Yanks should have won championships since Arod got here and that his performance in playoff series is one of several factors in their failure to do so. It is also my unbiased opinion that your constant crying about anything and everything related to the Yankees is really tiresome. Bob, they are only opinions that I offer. If opinions cause your skin to be so thin, and you only want to be regaled in the glory of the Yankees, I suggest you only listen to Suzyn Waldman and John Sterling. I never took you as one that could dish it out, but not take it back in return. Reeling in the years are we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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