MagicBizkit87 Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Joba Chamberlain showed he can pitch in key situations against top notch pitchers like Josh Beckett, and succeed as well. Why is keeping him a reliever even a story anymore. We as Yankee fans always complain that we can't beat the Josh Beckett's, Johan Santana's, or Roy Halladay's. We finally have a young pitcher, who outpitched Beckett this year, and people still disucss this even being a matter. Joba Chamberlain is a Starter, he proved that, and really this story needs to stop. I don't know what this guy has to prove, to prove he's a starter. I mean, come on... http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=280725102 Joba: 7 IP, 3 hits, 0 ER, 1 BB, 9 K's Beckett: 7 IP, 9 hits, 1 ER, 1 BB, 6 K's If you can hang with probably the best big game pitcher in the game right now, you should be a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 He should have been starting from the beginning of the season. How do they expect to stretch him out using him in the bullpen when he's not even over 100 innings with 2 weeks to go in the season? You can't just go into next season expecting him to pitch 80+ more innings than he ever has before without consequences. Not that I give a ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 What good is it though if he spends half of the season on DL ? I'm not going to let one injury though determine that he spends the rest of his career in the bullpen. I would let him start in 2009 and see what happens. If the tendoni**** shows up again then I would probably move him into the bullpen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebers Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 The issue is I don't think the organization knows what they want to do with him. If they're going with the same plan and having Chamberlain start in the bullpen and then gradually stretching him out. They're asking for problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 The issue is I don't think the organization knows what they want to do with him. If they're going with the same plan and having Chamberlain start in the bullpen and then gradually stretching him out. They're asking for problems. Yeah they do. They want him to be the ace of the staff but they are scared to death of him getting injured. Have you ever seen a pitcher that has been babied the way Joba has ? The kid is a stud but injuries happen. We don't know where or when but they do happen and most likely will happen with pitcher no matter how much you pamper and baby them. No one wants something to happen to Joba with the way it did with the Mets with Generation K, or the Cubs with Prior or Wood, but is there really anyway to control it. Guys like Glavine, Maddux, Smoltz and others very rarelly spent time on the DL when they were in their primes. I would let Joba start the season in the rotation and go from there. I can't see how this bouncing back and forth from the bulllpen to the rotation to back in the bullpen is just making the situation worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 The issue is I don't think the organization knows what they want to do with him. If they're going with the same plan and having Chamberlain start in the bullpen and then gradually stretching him out. They're asking for problems. The organization as it stands today, clearly knows what they want to do with him. They want him to be a starter. The issue is that they (Cashman) won't allow pitchers to increase their workload (innings pitched) by a wide margin from year to year. I forget the exact percentage. But if a pitcher pitches 100 innings in 2007 they don't want him to be over 180 or so the next year. So with that as a guide Joba would have ended up somewhere around 160 or so this year (don't quote me on the exact #). And then next year he would be good to go for the most part (200 IP ranged). My #s aren't exactly right but you get the point. Anyhow if they use the same rules next year Joba will have to be limited again because his # was so small. The bigger question is does this system work? They are doing this to protect the pitcher from injuries, yet they always seem to be hurt. Granted none of them are blowing out arms, shoulders or elbows but why can't they stay healthy. Is it time to take the kid gloves off? This system isn't accounting for pulled rib cage muscles and hammy's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Hell, the best big game pitcher today, himself Josh Beckett has had his share of injury problems, too bad the Florida Marlins, and now Boston Red Sox didn't put him in the bullpen then, huh? Thats basically what the Yankees would be doing if they left Joba Chamberlain in the bullpen. They'd be leaving Josh Beckett in the bullpen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Hell, the best big game pitcher today, himself Josh Beckett has had his share of injury problems, too bad the Florida Marlins, and now Boston Red Sox didn't put him in the bullpen then, huh? Thats basically what the Yankees would be doing if they left Joba Chamberlain in the bullpen. They'd be leaving Josh Beckett in the bullpen. Did you read my last post? The Yankees want him to start. They have been as clear on this as can be. They just don't want a pitcher going from 80 innings to 200 in one season. They feel that increases the potential for serious injury. That is why they came up with the migration plan from the pen to rotation. Most 21 year olds just build up strength and stamina in the minors. Joba was major league ready before they were comfortable burdening his arm with a major league workload. Blast them if you want but they are trying to do what they think is in the kids long term best interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 i say keep him in the BP the resta the year no sense in over working him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Hell, the best big game pitcher today, himself Josh Beckett has had his share of injury problems, too bad the Florida Marlins, and now Boston Red Sox didn't put him in the bullpen then, huh? Thats basically what the Yankees would be doing if they left Joba Chamberlain in the bullpen. They'd be leaving Josh Beckett in the bullpen. Agreed. They have 162 games that have to be pitched. By design, Joba will now pitch less of them and fewer innings. Worse, should the Yanks even make the playoffs in 2009, by choice they will not match up with another team's 1 or 2 starter, which they have instead decided to leave in the pen.So when they have ANOTHER playoff game when the bats go dead against a superior ace starter and Wang/Mussina/Pettitte/Whoever pitches a decent but not great game-and lose, enjoy watching the rest of the postseason someplace other than the Bronx. Whcih is exacly how the Yanks found themselves eliminated every year after 2000. They have an ace in Joba, and stupidly they will choose not to take advantage.And get stuck overpaying another guy to be that ace(and how successful that has been!). The only way it makes sense is if Rivera retired, but you can always revisit that decision when the day comes whichh won't be until at least 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uart Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 What good is it though if he spends half of the season on DL ? I'm not going to let one injury though determine that he spends the rest of his career in the bullpen. I would let him start in 2009 and see what happens. If the tendoni**** shows up again then I would probably move him into the bullpen. I agree. He's better for us as a starter. BUT, if he's going to be injury-prone, then we'll Kerry Woods him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 Agreed. They have 162 games that have to be pitched. By design, Joba will now pitch less of them and fewer innings. Worse, should the Yanks even make the playoffs in 2009, by choice they will not match up with another team's 1 or 2 starter, which they have instead decided to leave in the pen.So when they have ANOTHER playoff game when the bats go dead against a superior ace starter and Wang/Mussina/Pettitte/Whoever pitches a decent but not great game-and lose, enjoy watching the rest of the postseason someplace other than the Bronx. Whcih is exacly how the Yanks found themselves eliminated every year after 2000. They have an ace in Joba, and stupidly they will choose not to take advantage.And get stuck overpaying another guy to be that ace(and how successful that has been!). The only way it makes sense is if Rivera retired, but you can always revisit that decision when the day comes whichh won't be until at least 2010. Yeah, I've got nothing against Jorge expressing his opinion, he's apart of the Yankees, he should be allowed to, even though he's wrong. If you're going to leave Joba as a reliever then your just playing scared. Injuries are apart of the game, like I've said Josh Beckett himself, has had his share of injury problems. Joba Chamberlain is supposed to be an ace. He's been starting his whole life, and relieving was new to him in 2007. It's not like this is his first time starting games. The Yankees better not **** this up, they better stay to their word, and keep him as a starting pitcher, and if Cashman gets his way, and Joba is starting as a reliever for 2009, then I really do want him fired. That would be the last straw for me with Cashman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 The Yankees better not **** this up, they better stay to their word, and keep him as a starting pitcher, and if Cashman gets his way, and Joba is starting as a reliever for 2009, then I really do want him fired. That would be the last straw for me with Cashman. Okay I will try this a different way. Let's say Joba finishes this year with 100 innings pitched. Then they make him a starter next year and he stays completely injury free all season long. Are you comfortable with him going from lets say 100 IP this year to 210 IP next year? The Yankees aren't comfortable with that. That is the only reason he has been in the pen. I am not saying they are right or wrong. Curious to see if you are comfortable with him potentially doubling his workload though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 Okay I will try this a different way. Let's say Joba finishes this year with 100 innings pitched. Then they make him a starter next year and he stays completely injury free all season long. Are you comfortable with him going from lets say 100 IP this year to 210 IP next year? The Yankees aren't comfortable with that. That is the only reason he has been in the pen. I am not saying they are right or wrong. Curious to see if you are comfortable with him potentially doubling his workload though. Well send him to that Arizona League, like they're doing with Hughes to get his innings up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Well send him to that Arizona League, like they're doing with Hughes to get his innings up. Okay so if they send him the the Arizona league which I think is a good idea -- let's say he throws 40 innings (I am not sure how many games they play). Anyhow he ends the year with 140 IP. Are you comfortable with him pitching 220 innings next year? That is the Yankees point of contention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Okay so if they send him the the Arizona league which I think is a good idea -- let's say he throws 40 innings (I am not sure how many games they play). Anyhow he ends the year with 140 IP. Are you comfortable with him pitching 220 innings next year? That is the Yankees point of contention. Why wouldn't they be? Are they saying that his arm is going to get fatigued and tired? What does that say about their conditioning program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted September 18, 2008 Author Share Posted September 18, 2008 Okay so if they send him the the Arizona league which I think is a good idea -- let's say he throws 40 innings (I am not sure how many games they play). Anyhow he ends the year with 140 IP. Are you comfortable with him pitching 220 innings next year? That is the Yankees point of contention. Not 220, but I was thinking after throwing 140, he'd throw like 175 next year, which I think would be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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