Brandon Marshall giving position coach trouble

[#27TheDominator]

Two seconds vs. A fifth. How is that being a homer? The REALITY is that the Jets got better value.

If you're posting here, you're a homer. We all are.

Read the thread homer. I specifically said that the reason I preferred Holmes was that the compensation was less. Here is my post where you decided to stick your irrational homer laughing smiley in:

I think I might prefer Marshall assuming the compensation was identical. It's not, so it's a moot point, but don't act like he wouldn't have been a nice option. I'm just glad we kept the pick and have the option with the money.

Understand? I doubt it. Point is, if we could have gotten Marshall with a 5th and without redoing his contract we'd all be happy and you'd be the first guy to overrate him.

I guess you must have missed some of the stories being that you're in Italy about how Santonio has grown up a lot Dom. He has a son who has Sickle Cell Anemia and has been nothing but a very responsible young man who has done everything in his power to help the little boy-people DO have the ability to change. Not one single story or tweet from Santonio saying he was out on the town spending big bucks on champagne or driving around drunk. Not one.

See my first post in the thread. Holmes has done plenty of things that indicate that he hasn't necessarily grown up. Yapping to the press, getting kicked off the plane. I don't think he's been a problem, but stories about Marshall being a problem didn't arise until they started losing. Winning sweeps a lot of immaturity under the rug.

[Klecko73isGod]

Read the thread homer. I specifically said that the reason I preferred Holmes was that the compensation was less. Here is my post where you decided to stick your irrational homer laughing smiley in:

Understand? I doubt it. Point is, if we could have gotten Marshall with a 5th and without redoing his contract we'd all be happy and you'd be the first guy to overrate him.

See my first post in the thread. Holmes has done plenty of things that indicate that he hasn't necessarily grown up. Yapping to the press, getting kicked off the plane. I don't think he's been a problem, but stories about Marshall being a problem didn't arise until they started losing. Winning sweeps a lot of immaturity under the rug.

Ummm, Holmes wasn't kicked off a plane. That was a non-story that someone in the media tried to blow up into an issue. Yapping to the press? I don't even know what you're talking about there.

Marshall had issues in Miami in training camp, long before they started losing.

[#27TheDominator]

Ummm, Holmes wasn't kicked off a plane. That was a non-story that someone in the media tried to blow up into an issue. Yapping to the press? I don't even know what you're talking about there.

Marshall had issues in Miami in training camp, long before they started losing.

Ummm, big ******* deal.

1. It is still an issue. He was forced to speak with the police for refusing to follow flight regulations as a "disruptive passenger" and a report was filed. I fly all the time. Do you want to guess how many times the police have had to speak with me? How many reports have been filed? He complained about the coaches. It was only a week ago. I didn't hear much about Marshall making any noise with the Dolphins and I would say that reporting that the position coach changed for undisclosed reasons because Marshall allegedly "gave him trouble, but the Dolphins would never say it publicly" sounds exactly like a non-story somebody in the media is trying to blow up into an issue.

2. It's completely irrelevant to the conversation which is that Holmes isn't necessarily any better as a WR and we are only happy we got him because of the disparity in compensation.

[#27TheDominator]

At least let me comment on the guy who plays for the Jets before you make irrational accusations.

Not that it would change the FACT that Marshall is an overrated punk.

Oh, and by the way:

JiF said:

Like I've said before...if you are going to draft a WR in the first...then I see no problem with trading for Brandon Marshall using our 1st round pick.

Homer

[Klecko73isGod]

Oh, and by the way:

Homer

Doesn't change the FACT that both Holmes and Edwards have more big play ability than Marshall.

Marshall is a tall, black Wes Welker.

[Aten]

2. It's completely irrelevant to the conversation which is that Holmes isn't necessarily any better as a WR and we are only happy we got him because of the disparity in compensation.

Compensation has zero to do with it. I'd have been happy with Holmes for more than a fifth, and I'd have been happy if the Dolphins got Marshall for nothing.

[#27TheDominator]

Doesn't change the FACT that both Holmes and Edwards have more big play ability than Marshall.

Marshall is a tall, black Wes Welker.

That you would have traded Edwards and a second to have on the team. Homer.

Compensation has zero to do with it. I'd have been happy with Holmes for more than a fifth, and I'd have been happy if the Dolphins got Marshall for nothing.

Yeah, I'm arguing with Klecko. I don't agree with you, but at least you are consistent in your love of the peripheral. I can't wait until the Jets get Welker. Klecko's head will explode.

[Klecko73isGod]

That you would have traded Edwards and a second to have on the team. Homer.

Yeah, I'm arguing with Klecko. I don't agree with you, but at least you are consistent in your love of the peripheral. I can't wait until the Jets get Welker. Klecko's head will explode.

I didn't want him, I was commenting on a hypothetical. Look at all of my posts about Marshall from the last year. My opinion of him has always been the same - he's Keyshawn Johnson II.

He looks amazing but his play is average when you consider his skill set. The guy is the definition of a stat compiler.

[#27TheDominator]

I didn't want him, I was commenting on a hypothetical. Look at all of my posts about Marshall from the last year. My opinion of him has always been the same - he's Keyshawn Johnson II.

He looks amazing but his play is average when you consider his skill set. The guy is the definition of a stat compiler.

You mean all of your posts since he joined the Dolphins? That's pretty funny. You didn't want him, but you'd rather have him than Edwards. Got it.

[Klecko73isGod]

You mean all of your posts since he joined the Dolphins? That's pretty funny. You didn't want him, but you'd rather have him than Edwards. Got it.

I never did want him. You are taking one post out of context and insisting that it was my opinion of Marshall prior to him joining the Dolphins when that simply isn't the case.

I always thought Marshall was an overrated POS. Dolphins fans thought they were getting Randy Moss in his prime which was laughable. The guy has always been a terrible underachiever.

With his skillset he should be in the 85-100 catch range with about 1500+ yards and 10+ TDs every year. He ain't close to being that guy and never was and never will be.

Santonio and Braylon are much more explosive receivers.

[JustInFudge]

Oh, and by the way:

Homer

I remember saying that, but I probably would have said the same about many other receivers. I'm big on trading for value to a known quantity over taking a shot at the draft which is a crap shoot and the Jets are terrible at drafting. And I especially like that strategy of drafting a WR who takes years to settle in and are a dime a dozen.

Doesnt mean I dont think BM is overrated pos. I do, but would have understood the logic if thats what the Jets did.

[#27TheDominator]

I never did want him. You are taking one post out of context and insisting that it was my opinion of Marshall prior to him joining the Dolphins when that simply isn't the case.

I always thought Marshall was an overrated POS. Dolphins fans thought they were getting Randy Moss in his prime which was laughable. The guy has always been a terrible underachiever.

With his skillset he should be in the 85-100 catch range with about 1500+ yards and 10+ TDs every year. He ain't close to being that guy and never was and never will be.

Santonio and Braylon are much more explosive receivers.

Dude, you are trying to spin something that you can't spin. JiF suggested that we trade a first for Marshall because he liked an established guy better than a risk in the draft. You not only agreed ("Exactly" is the word you used), but suggested that the Jets might be better off instead trading Edwards AND a 2nd for him. Therefore, you cannot possibly say that you prefer Edwards. Not rationally anyway.

Please provide any context that might be missing - there is none. In fact, I didn't provide the context that you are leaving out. Marshall demanded a new deal. There was no way he was going to report without one. It was well known that getting Marshall required a blockbuster contract, while Edwards had already signed the restricted deal. There is your context, Homer.

What Dolphin fans thought they were getting is not relevant. His skillset and potential don't matter. They are meaningless both to our discussion of him having value to a team and to your clumsy attempts to backpedal. Also, please stop using the term explosive. I know you are trying to cover yourself, but your ploy is pretty transparent. Santana Moss is more explosive than Jerry Rice. What's that prove?

I remember saying that, but I probably would have said the same about many other receivers. I'm big on trading for value to a known quantity over taking a shot at the draft which is a crap shoot and the Jets are terrible at drafting. And I especially like that strategy of drafting a WR who takes years to settle in and are a dime a dozen.

Doesnt mean I dont think BM is overrated pos. I do, but would have understood the logic if thats what the Jets did.

Fair enough. I don't think I'm disputing anything you've said. If the Jets had gotten Marshall for a 5th and the 'phins Holmes for two 2nds and had to redo his deal I'd be just as happy as I am now and rest assured, I'm happy.

[Klecko73isGod]

Dude, you are trying to spin something that you can't spin. JiF suggested that we trade a first for Marshall because he liked an established guy better than a risk in the draft. You not only agreed ("Exactly" is the word you used), but suggested that the Jets might be better off instead trading Edwards AND a 2nd for him. Therefore, you cannot possibly say that you prefer Edwards. Not rationally anyway.

Please provide any context that might be missing - there is none. In fact, I didn't provide the context that you are leaving out. Marshall demanded a new deal. There was no way he was going to report without one. It was well known that getting Marshall required a blockbuster contract, while Edwards had already signed the restricted deal. There is your context, Homer.

What Dolphin fans thought they were getting is not relevant. His skillset and potential don't matter. They are meaningless both to our discussion of him having value to a team and to your clumsy attempts to backpedal. Also, please stop using the term explosive. I know you are trying to cover yourself, but your ploy is pretty transparent. Santana Moss is more explosive than Jerry Rice. What's that prove?

Fair enough. I don't think I'm disputing anything you've said. If the Jets had gotten Marshall for a 5th and the 'phins Holmes for two 2nds and had to redo his deal I'd be just as happy as I am now and rest assured, I'm happy.

Dude, you care way more about this than I do. I really don't give a **** what you think. All I know is that I never liked Marshall as a player.

[#27TheDominator]

Dude, you care way more about this than I do. I really don't give a **** what you think. All I know is that I never liked Marshall as a player.

Translation "I am a big homer".

If you never liked him as a player, you must hate Braylon Edwards and second round draft picks.

You changed your mind. If you had admitted it yesterday we'd be over this already. As for your not caring, I will quote you further:

[Klecko73isGod]

Translation "I am a big homer".

If you never liked him as a player, you must hate Braylon Edwards and second round draft picks.

You changed your mind. If you had admitted it yesterday we'd be over this already. As for your not caring, I will quote you further:

[Aten]

Yeah, I'm arguing with Klecko. I don't agree with you, but at least you are consistent in your love of the peripheral.

No tapouts in thunderdome. What's peripheral about the fact that Y/A does a better job or factoring the opportunity cost of production than Y/G does? What's peripheral about Marshall putting up three touchdowns despite being thrown to more than all but four guys in the league?

[Klecko73isGod]

No tapouts in thunderdome. What's peripheral about the fact that Y/A does a better job or factoring the opportunity cost of production than Y/G does? What's peripheral about Marshall putting up three touchdowns despite being thrown to more than all but four guys in the league?

Nothing. He is an overrated POS and always has been.

[#27TheDominator]

No tapouts in thunderdome. What's peripheral about the fact that Y/A does a better job or factoring the opportunity cost of production than Y/G does? What's peripheral about Marshall putting up three touchdowns despite being thrown to more than all but four guys in the league?

Football is a team game. Chad Henne was probably the best guy that threw him the ball and Davone Bess was on the other side. He had 10 TDs the year before and has more than Holmes despite being in the same draft class. He may be overrated, but he's still good. Being thrown to often is not a bad thing. Sanchez could use a security blanket.

[Klecko73isGod]

Football is a team game. Chad Henne was probably the best guy that threw him the ball and Davone Bess was on the other side. He had 10 TDs the year before and has more than Holmes despite being in the same draft class. He may be overrated, but he's still good. Being thrown to often is not a bad thing. Sanchez could use a security blanket.

Holmes: 5 years, 4581 yards, 26TD

Marshall: 5 years, 5033 yards, 28TD

This is despite Marshall catching 126 more passes.

Give Holmes as many targets as Marshall at his same productivity rate and he's got 7000 yards and around 40 TDs.

Holmes is a significantly more explosive player. And its not close.

When you compare Marshall to Edwards the disparity is just as bad, only Edwards would probably have closer to 50TDs.

For less than what the Dolphins paid for Marshall, the Jets got both Braylon and Santonio. I made this same argument when owning a Dolphins fan back in TC when Marshall was pouting.

Marshall is a possession receiver in Randy Moss' body.

Edwards and Holmes are both significantly more explosive receivers capable of make game changing plays at any moment.

[#27TheDominator]

Dude, you care way more about this than I do. I really don't give a **** what you think. All I know is that I never liked Marshall as a player.

You were doing so well and then you hit me with this one.

Holmes: 5 years, 4581 yards, 26TD

Marshall: 5 years, 5033 yards, 28TD

This is despite Marshall catching 126 more passes.

Give Holmes as many targets as Marshall at his same productivity rate and he's got 7000 yards and around 40 TDs.

Holmes is a significantly more explosive player. And its not close.

When you compare Marshall to Edwards the disparity is just as bad, only Edwards would probably have closer to 50TDs.

For less than what the Dolphins paid for Marshall, the Jets got both Braylon and Santonio. I made this same argument when owning a Dolphins fan back in TC when Marshall was pouting.

Marshall is a possession receiver in Randy Moss' body.

Edwards and Holmes are both significantly more explosive receivers capable of make game changing plays at any moment.

What ownage! I'm very impressed that you made the very same homerific argument after the 'phins got Marshall and the Jets got Holmes.

Things that don't make sense:

Showing statistics where Marshall guy had more catches, yards and TDs to show he is inferior.

Saying "despite having 126 more catches" as if that is a bad thing. How many more first downs do you think Marshall got with those 126 extra catches?

Claiming that having more targets is some how indicative of being lucky rather than GETTING OPEN. Holmes is lazy and doesn't work. We've all seen him quit while Sanchez rolls around in and out of the pocket. Hell, he is 75% of the reason Serphx thinks our receivers don't run "routes". Maybe if he'd kept working Big Ben would have hit him a few more times.

Acting like having Randy Moss' body is somehow a detriment.

Once again touting "explosion" as the be all end all. All that explosion and less production. I'm proud of them.

Touting Edwards again, when you wanted to add a 2nd and a big contract to get the Broncos to take him for Marshall.

I am very happy the Jets did not overpay for this guy. I never wanted any big blockbuster and I never wanted another big long term contract. I never said I didn't prefer the Holmes deal to the Marshall deal. Hell, I never said I wouldn't prefer Holmes even up. I'm just saying that Holmes is at best comparable, slightly better, slightly worse, whatever. You are acting as if Marshall is Alex Van Dyke with a bad attitude and Holmes is Tim Brown. I guess it's hard to see straight through the green goggles. You can go back to now.

[Klecko73isGod]

You were doing so well and then you hit me with this one.

What ownage! I'm very impressed that you made the very same homerific argument after the 'phins got Marshall and the Jets got Holmes.

Things that don't make sense:

Showing statistics where Marshall guy had more catches, yards and TDs to show he is inferior.

Saying "despite having 126 more catches" as if that is a bad thing. How many more first downs do you think Marshall got with those 126 extra catches?

Claiming that having more targets is some how indicative of being lucky rather than GETTING OPEN. Holmes is lazy and doesn't work. We've all seen him quit while Sanchez rolls around in and out of the pocket. Hell, he is 75% of the reason Serphx thinks our receivers don't run "routes". Maybe if he'd kept working Big Ben would have hit him a few more times.

Acting like having Randy Moss' body is somehow a detriment.

Once again touting "explosion" as the be all end all. All that explosion and less production. I'm proud of them.

Touting Edwards again, when you wanted to add a 2nd and a big contract to get the Broncos to take him for Marshall.

I am very happy the Jets did not overpay for this guy. I never wanted any big blockbuster and I never wanted another big long term contract. I never said I didn't prefer the Holmes deal to the Marshall deal. Hell, I never said I wouldn't prefer Holmes even up. I'm just saying that Holmes is at best comparable, slightly better, slightly worse, whatever. You are acting as if Marshall is Alex Van Dyke with a bad attitude and Holmes is Tim Brown. I guess it's hard to see straight through the green goggles. You can go back to now.

Wow, just wow.

This has nothing to do with what teams these guys play for. I felt this way before Edwards and Holmes were Jets and before Marshall was a Dolphin.

I would feel that way if the tables were turned.

This argument is going over your head so you are resorting to name calling to make a nonsensical point as if it has anything to do with the argument at hand.

Production is defined by yardage and TDs. To that end, with many more opportunities, Marshall has done significantly less than either Edwards or Holmes.

Edwards played on crappy Browns teams with dreck throwing him the ball and was still more productive than Marshall. Holmes played on good Steelers teams with a Hall of Fame receiver in Hines Ward and a great TE in Heath Miller. He was never the number one option then and he isn't now so of course he isn't going to get as many passes his way as Marshall.

[T0mShane]

Braylon and a 2nd for Marshall? That's a lot.

[SenorGato]

Hell, he is 75% of the reason Serphx thinks our receivers don't run "routes".

Wow that was funny. Totally caught me off guard.

[#27TheDominator]

Wow, just wow.

This has nothing to do with what teams these guys play for. I felt this way before Edwards and Holmes were Jets and before Marshall was a Dolphin.

I would feel that way if the tables were turned.

This argument is going over your head so you are resorting to name calling to make a nonsensical point as if it has anything to do with the argument at hand.

Production is defined by yardage and TDs. To that end, with many more opportunities, Marshall has done significantly less than either Edwards or Holmes.

Edwards played on crappy Browns teams with dreck throwing him the ball and was still more productive than Marshall. Holmes played on good Steelers teams with a Hall of Fame receiver in Hines Ward and a great TE in Heath Miller. He was never the number one option then and he isn't now so of course he isn't going to get as many passes his way as Marshall.

At what point do you plan to start making sense? When did I call you a name other than Homer? I figure that is firmly established and not very insulting.

Production is defined by yardage and TDs? I think so too. Marshall has more of both than Holmes.

Bringing up Edwards isn't helping your case. YOU wanted to trade Edwards for Marshall. I didn't bring him into this conversation until you injected your and an 8 second search pulled up your trade plan. You alleged some context that would explain that away, but we still haven't heard it.

Not being the number one option is now proof of superiority? Another piece of logic that escapes me.

[Klecko73isGod]

At what point do you plan to start making sense? When did I call you a name other than Homer? I figure that is firmly established and not very insulting.

Production is defined by yardage and TDs? I think so too. Marshall has more of both than Holmes.

Bringing up Edwards isn't helping your case. YOU wanted to trade Edwards for Marshall. I didn't bring him into this conversation until you injected your and an 8 second search pulled up your trade plan. You alleged some context that would explain that away, but we still haven't heard it.

Not being the number one option is now proof of superiority? Another piece of logic that escapes me.

What? I never wanted to trade him. Do understand what context means? The discussion was about getting value in trades. Just because I used Edwards in the example doesn't mean I wanted the Jets to actually make the trade.

Marshall does less with more than any receiver in the NFL. With his size and slillset he should be putting up around 1500 yards and 10-plus TDs per year and he doesn't come close to those numbers.

[CTM]

lol.. just lol

[#27TheDominator]

What? I never wanted to trade him. Do understand what context means? The discussion was about getting value in trades. Just because I used Edwards in the example doesn't mean I wanted the Jets to actually make the trade.

Marshall does less with more than any receiver in the NFL. With his size and slillset he should be putting up around 1500 yards and 10-plus TDs per year and he doesn't come close to those numbers.

JiF said he'd trade a first for him. You said, and I quote, EXACTLY. Then you proposed it would be better to trade a 2nd and Edwards. Here is your value system:

Marshall > a first

Marshall > Edwards + a second

Edwards + a second < a first.

The truth hurts

[SoFlaJets]

"people, people why are we fighting?"

[SoFlaJets]