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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Jets have till March 15 to move Revis


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44 replies to this topic

#26 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:03 AM

yes mark needs to be a team leader by making himself easier to cut or trade. Can anyone find a situation where this has happened before? where a player converted guarunteed salary to bonus without getting a raise? Im not talking about what's possible i'm talking about what will happen. Any agent worth their licence would want something out of the deal. Players don't make deals for no reason. Neither do teams. Everyone acts in their own economic interest. There is no advantage to the player to get his money up front. It's just a different delivery method.

 

The only reason Mark would make this deal is if he wanted to leave NY. In which case his "team leadership" is not relevant. 

 

Don't agree with any of this.  In no small part because doing this doesn't even mean he gets traded.  If you can find an instance of a player refusing to take money in advance to help the team clear cap room - with no pay cut - then I'll stand corrected.  But the onus is on you, since you're the one saying he wouldn't do that.  Not to mention your analogy to your own finances is kind of silly and irrelevant.


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#27 flgreen

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:15 AM

I put myself in the players shoes. If my job pays me 12,000 a year. And instead of give me 12 monthly payments of a 1000, they give it all up front. How is that any better? The time value of money is basically nothing because the interest rates are zero. 

Your correct.  Getting $12,000 a year up front, when you have to live on it, isn’t much money in interest.

 

$12,000,000 up front is a different situation.  Even if you live like a Duke, and spend $2,000,000, you still have $10,000,000 to invest.  Your not putting that money in a savings account, if you are smart, your investing it.

 

If you have good advisors the investment return on $10,000,000 is significant.  Always take the money up front


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#28 #27TheDominator

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:22 AM

yes mark needs to be a team leader by making himself easier to cut or trade. Can anyone find a situation where this has happened before? where a player converted guarunteed salary to bonus without getting a raise? Im not talking about what's possible i'm talking about what will happen. Any agent worth their licence would want something out of the deal. Players don't make deals for no reason. Neither do teams. Everyone acts in their own economic interest. There is no advantage to the player to get his money up front. It's just a different delivery method.

 

The only reason Mark would make this deal is if he wanted to leave NY. In which case his "team leadership" is not relevant. 

 

It happens so ******* often they don't even report on it now.  IIRC, off the top of my head, Scott did it before he even played a game with the team.  Jonathan Stewart did it recently. Julius Peppers did it barely into that big deal with the Bears, I remember reading about it when we were interviewing Angelo for the GM job.  It is routine.

 

PS:  The interest rates are not 0 and getting money now is always better, unless you are a crackhead. 


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#29 jack48

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:25 AM

ok but why would he do this? Cause he feels bad?  Gholston actually gave money back towards the end but it's pretty rare for a player to put the team's interest before his own. 

 

 

by the way the original thread title talks about Revis and March 15. Even the trade Revis crowd should be able to realize this is selling him at a low to move him now. No one's seen him run or cut. He can't really pass a physical right now. The 1 mil bonus means the jets are up against a clock and everyne knows it. They would get fleeced in any deal.

 

If you want to move Revis the time to do it is in the season, when everyone sees he's back, teams are aware that they are SB contenders (or not) and even the Jets can decide whether 2013 is really a lost year. Trading him now is like selling your stock the day after a crash. 

Well, if he had a conscience he might.  But these players think nothing of taking the money.  He has essentially been grossly overpaid for his contributions the last two years.  But why am I even bothering to mention things like conscience in relation to a football team?


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#30 jack48

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:34 AM

1.  Why wouldn't he?

2.  Even assuming 1%, 1% of $8.5M is still actual money.

3.  He has every reason to want the team to succeed NOW by having more money to spend while he is still here and not later when he is cut. 

4.  What is he, a dick?  Players do this constantly.  

I doubt these guys put their money in savings accounts.  More likely corporate bonds and the market.  Having the money now could be a good deal, if the dollar continues to tank in the coming years---which it probably will.


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#31 bitonti

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:36 AM

It happens so ******* often they don't even report on it now.  IIRC, off the top of my head, Scott did it before he even played a game with the team.  Jonathan Stewart did it recently. Julius Peppers did it barely into that big deal with the Bears,

 

so these players took money that they already had coming to them up front and didn't take any raise at all? Not even a little raise in the bonus? Why? 

 

we talk in the Revis thread about what a player will or will not do... and it's assumed that revis will eventually hold out again... there's nothing in Mark Sanchez' history that leads us to believe he will do anything for the team for free. 


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#32 bitonti

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:37 AM

Your correct.  Getting $12,000 a year up front, when you have to live on it, isn’t much money in interest.

 

$12,000,000 up front is a different situation.  Even if you live like a Duke, and spend $2,000,000, you still have $10,000,000 to invest.  Your not putting that money in a savings account, if you are smart, your investing it.

 

If you have good advisors the investment return on $10,000,000 is significant.  Always take the money up front

 

like a Duke eh... 

 

dukes.jpg


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#33 #27TheDominator

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:44 AM

so these players took money that they already had coming to them up front and didn't take any raise at all? Not even a little raise in the bonus? Why? 

 

we talk in the Revis thread about what a player will or will not do... and it's assumed that revis will eventually hold out again... there's nothing in Mark Sanchez' history that leads us to believe he will do anything for the team for free. 

 

We have told you why about 90 times in this thread alone.  You are unable to provide one valid reason why they wouldn't.  As Jack said, these guys are not putting their money into interest bearing checking accounts - properly invested a few million dollars can bring back some serious change. 


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#34 bitonti

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:46 AM

We have told you why about 90 times in this thread alone.  You are unable to provide one valid reason why they wouldn't.  As Jack said, these guys are not putting their money into interest bearing checking accounts - properly invested a few million dollars can bring back some serious change. 

 

or you can lose it all. Financial advisors charge a fee for management, commissions, fees, taxes, it's possible that the investment gains don't exceed the cost of doing business. Yes if it's smartly invested you can beat the market if it's dumbly invested you end up with nothing. It's all theoretically.

 

BL I can't say why they wouldn't you can't say why they would. it seems like a wash at best. and I think we all agree it's not gonna happen. We can argue about it all day in theory but in practice when has Mark done anything for the jets for free?


Edited by bitonti, 21 February 2013 - 09:48 AM.

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#35 Maxman

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:01 AM

I can't believe David Harris and Holmes make 13M. That is just absolutely ridiculous.

 

It is criminal.


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#36 Maxman

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:03 AM

The good thing about a new GM is he can be pretty ruthless when it comes to redoing these deals.  I don't know the particulars of the Holmes and Harris contracts.  But he didn't give them out.  So he can play hardball.  He would be able to cut them (cap ramifications aside) because it wasn't his idea to sign them to those deals.


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#37 slats

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:32 AM

I put myself in the players shoes. If my job pays me 12,000 a year. And instead of give me 12 monthly payments of a 1000, they give it all up front. How is that any better? The time value of money is basically nothing because the interest rates are zero. 

 

You're probably the only person who doesn't understand that $8M today beats the hell out of $8M spread out over September thru January. I'm sure Mark and his advisors understand the benefits,


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#38 IrishJets39

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:32 AM

Would love to have Revis back it won't be easy to replace him. But if the Jets can get some picks and a quality player that can come in and start right away then I'm for it.  I'm hoping Jets can get a 1st Rd for Revis if not a least a 2nd and a 3rd or 4th Rd's and a 2nd for the 2014 drafts. Can't wait till the 12th and the 15 to see what going to happened.


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#39 faba

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:35 AM

As someone I think Bleedin Green said 1 million bonus is chump change- that is not a hard decision deadline


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#40 bitonti

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:46 AM

You're probably the only person who doesn't understand that $8M today beats the hell out of $8M spread out over September thru January. I'm sure Mark and his advisors understand the benefits,

 

Because of the implied investment gains? there's implied investment losses too.

 

with interest rates so low it's a marginal benefit at best. 


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#41 #27TheDominator

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:10 AM

Because of the implied investment gains? there's implied investment losses too.

 

with interest rates so low it's a marginal benefit at best. 

 

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS IMPLIED INVESTMENT LOSSES. He can put the money in a shoe box under his bed and be in the same position. You sound like a guy ready to take a dollar a day for 1,000 years instead of $365,000.  


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#42 bitonti

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:38 AM

Ok so let's break this down fellas. 

Scenario 1 Mark gets 8.5 Mil over the course of 16 game checks from Sep-Dec in 2013. 

Scenario 2 Mark gets 8.5 Mil up front in August. 

 

in scenario 1 the 1% interest is 85000 per year. But the Jets aren't giving it to him a year in advance. In fact he's getting 1/16th of it  in first week of Sept. either way. Then he gets a week interest on week 2's check, 2 week's interest on week 3's check etc. 

 

let's forget all that and pro rate the interest on the whole 8.5 as 1% over 6 months = $42500.  that's being really generous and the guaranteed difference between the scenarios. 

 

Mark could by 30 year T bills in which case whether he's getting it in weekly installments or 1 lump sum doesn't really matter.

 

we could pretend that mark can invest the whole chunk in the stock market, and maybe make 5% on it by the end of the year (which would be amazing). but that is not guaranteed. He could lose it all. there's fees, commissions, taxes etc.  

 

 

Only the 1% savings rate is 100% guarunteeed 

But Mark also could be cut or traded in this scenario. He could get traded to some backwater he's got no interest in... like Jacksonville or Buffalo. There's the lost cost in local sponsorships. There's moving expenses. There's the price of getting his current house ready for sale. there's the chance that the house he bought in 2008 isn't worth what he paid for it at the time. 

 

so in the end what is this player gaining? I don't see it as an advantage. 


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#43 #27TheDominator

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:39 AM

Heaven help us. 


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#44 JFtoLong

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 06:46 PM

Bit, sorry man, no matter how you slice this, you are wrong, money now is absolutely, without a doubt, better than tomorrow. Present value calculations prove this out very, very clearly
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#45 bitonti

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 07:57 AM

Bit, sorry man, no matter how you slice this, you are wrong, money now is absolutely, without a doubt, better than tomorrow. Present value calculations prove this out very, very clearly

 

 

the NBA offers to pay it's players seasonally or weekly. 3 out of 4 players take weekly. There has to be a reason for that... 


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