vincenzo69 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 JJ Watt is my choice but Arod is a close 2nd. The Texans would be 0-16 without Watt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 romo ? no google Winner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Then just make him the MVP every year then. Rodgers can surely still be the GOAT without other players achievements being dismissed. The award is the most valuable player of the year, not the most valuable player in his generation or in the history of the NFL. You dont diminish one player for the sake of putting another on some pedestal. I agree with you. Not saying it SHOULD make a difference, only that it appears to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 If this position is the reason then the ultimate goal is the Super Bowl right? We can easily say that Tom Brady's stats were in the same ball park, then why does he just get 1 vote yet is playing in the Super Bowl, the only game that actually matters. I never liked that playoff reason because of that fact. If the playoffs is better than the reg. season, then the Superbowl is better than both. don't they vote before the playoffs start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Generally if a QB doesn't win it a RB or W/R I think the last defensive player to win was Lawrence Taylor.. Rogers will never catch Favre in yardage or TD's Hell he needs another 17,655 yds to catch Vinny..LOL I think Rogers is a HOF QB but he's not going to be top 3 IMO top 10 maybe.. No...those years on the bench behind Favre probably blew any real shot he had at the all-time yardage record, but nobody considers Favre the GOAT either. I think it's the incredible consistency of greatness he shows that elevate him to the discussion. His numbers (TD:INT ratio, yards/attempt, completion %, TD %, passer rating) are incredible, and better than Manning, Brady, Brees, Montana and the rest as a body of work. He doesn't get the headlines the others get but when you look at them, and watch him play, you see one of the greats in the making. I think he's already a HOF lock if he retired tomorrow personally. Take out the first three years when he barely played and he's averaging almost exactly 4k yards/season including the injury year in 2013. FWIW, if he plays 7 more years at that pace, he'd come in around 5th or 6th depending on where Brady and Brees finish up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Generally if a QB doesn't win it a RB or W/R I think the last defensive player to win was Lawrence Taylor.. Rogers will never catch Favre in yardage or TD's Hell he needs another 17,655 yds to catch Vinny..LOL I think Rogers is a HOF QB but he's not going to be top 3 IMO top 10 maybe.. You are right. I had to check. And before that was Alan Page in 1971. That's pretty sad. What's sadder is that I didn't remember that a kicker won it in the strike-shortened 1982 season. How is that even possible?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persiussa Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 It should have been the pats ball boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 I agree with you. Not saying it SHOULD make a difference, only that it appears to. Whats even crazier to me is this. You know how we talk about all of these QB's and how Rodgers will be the new GOAT, Brady is elite whether the ball is deflated or inflated, Andrew Luck will be the future of this league and probably go down as the guy to dethrone whomever, etc. All of these guys, along with every skill set player on their side of the ball all have 1 thing in common. Every year the rules change in order to encourage more offensive scoring. The past 20 years that I've been personally following the sport its undeniable how much the rules of the game has changed to benefit the guys who end up getting all of the records, awards and accolades. Its easier for them. Back when Namath became the first QB to throw for over 4,000 yards that must have been absolutely insane given what the defense was back then. In the late 80's, into the 90's when Troy Aikman and John Elway were cracking the 3,000 passing yard mark and 13 TD's these guys were considered tops in the league. When Dan Marino was throwing for 4,000 yards or more in numerous years, it was something just simply never done. My point is, 20 to 25 years later, you can have a league today where we can have 11 QB's throw for over 4,000 yards in the same season, and also have one of those guys be considered not so good as a QB (Ryan Tannehill). You can have 22 QB's throw for over 3,000 yards in the same season. You have have 1 QB break 40 passing TD's and that's considered on the low end, as well as have 9 QB's pass over 30 TD's and 16 QB's throw for 20 or more. In a day and age where EVERYTHING is geared to the offense and the QB, where you can't touch the WR at all during his route unlike in the Mel Blount days. When you have a season such as what JJ Watt just had, when you have a season like what Darrelle Revis had back in 2010 (He wasnt the MVP of the league, but a nomination would have been nice) when every possible rule is geared to benefit the guys that we eventually want to call G.O.A.T.'s, its utterly ridiculous to see people make up reasons why a defender either "shouldn't receive the award" or "why the QB is important because if you remove him from his team etc..." The rules are designed to benefit the offenses that JJ Watt just destroyed this year for 16 games, and for him to get just 13 votes because he isn't an Aaron Rodgers, a QB that has every benefit of the game placed at his feet for the sake of "encouraging offensive scoring" is why those 13 votes I feel are disrespectful. Put JJ Watt in the league back in the 70's when QB's had to hold the ball longer because CB's were able to harass the WR's. Put this guy in any generation prior to the one that he's currently in and he would have dominated even more just because the rules would have been much more even. So when people attempt to discredit him or any other defender for that matter by making the comparison of "if you remove both from their respective teams", next time remember how those same offensive players have every rule in the rule book stacked to their advantage. You put JJ Watt in any generation prior to the one that he's in and this dude would just be walking destruction. You put most of these 4,000 yard, 30 TD passers in the league back in the 80's and then you'd see who was really more valuable to their team. JJ Watt should have been named MVP of the league, but at bare minimum he should not have been outvoted so outright like that, just based on the disadvantage of simply BEING a defender in todays league and doing what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincenzo69 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 It should have been the pats ball boy. No all he's getting is $50,000 in his checking account from Bob Kraft and a cushy job at some LLC in Boston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 don't they vote before the playoffs start? I dont know. I just never understood how people use the playoffs in general to make someone more valuable than the next when its a team sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Whats even crazier to me is this. You know how we talk about all of these QB's and how Rodgers will be the new GOAT, Brady is elite whether the ball is deflated or inflated, Andrew Luck will be the future of this league and probably go down as the guy to dethrone whomever, etc. All of these guys, along with every skill set player on their side of the ball all have 1 thing in common. Every year the rules change in order to encourage more offensive scoring. The past 20 years that I've been personally following the sport its undeniable how much the rules of the game has changed to benefit the guys who end up getting all of the records, awards and accolades. Its easier for them. Back when Namath became the first QB to throw for over 4,000 yards that must have been absolutely insane given what the defense was back then. In the late 80's, into the 90's when Troy Aikman and John Elway were cracking the 3,000 passing yard mark and 13 TD's these guys were considered tops in the league. When Dan Marino was throwing for 4,000 yards or more in numerous years, it was something just simply never done. My point is, 20 to 25 years later, you can have a league today where we can have 11 QB's throw for over 4,000 yards in the same season, and also have one of those guys be considered not so good as a QB (Ryan Tannehill). You can have 22 QB's throw for over 3,000 yards in the same season. You have have 1 QB break 40 passing TD's and that's considered on the low end, as well as have 9 QB's pass over 30 TD's and 16 QB's throw for 20 or more. In a day and age where EVERYTHING is geared to the offense and the QB, where you can't touch the WR at all during his route unlike in the Mel Blount days. When you have a season such as what JJ Watt just had, when you have a season like what Darrelle Revis had back in 2010 (He wasnt the MVP of the league, but a nomination would have been nice) when every possible rule is geared to benefit the guys that we eventually want to call G.O.A.T.'s, its utterly ridiculous to see people make up reasons why a defender either "shouldn't receive the award" or "why the QB is important because if you remove him from his team etc..." The rules are designed to benefit the offenses that JJ Watt just destroyed this year for 16 games, and for him to get just 13 votes because he isn't an Aaron Rodgers, a QB that has every benefit of the game placed at his feet for the sake of "encouraging offensive scoring" is why those 13 votes I feel are disrespectful. Put JJ Watt in the league back in the 70's when QB's had to hold the ball longer because CB's were able to harass the WR's. Put this guy in any generation prior to the one that he's currently in and he would have dominated even more just because the rules would have been much more even. So when people attempt to discredit him or any other defender for that matter by making the comparison of "if you remove both from their respective teams", next time remember how those same offensive players have every rule in the rule book stacked to their advantage. You put JJ Watt in any generation prior to the one that he's in and this dude would just be walking destruction. You put most of these 4,000 yard, 30 TD passers in the league back in the 80's and then you'd see who was really more valuable to their team. JJ Watt should have been named MVP of the league, but at bare minimum he should not have been outvoted so outright like that, just based on the disadvantage of simply BEING a defender in todays league and doing what he did. In a 14 game season before all the offense favoring rules,Namath threw for 4,007 yards in 1967.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 with Watt Texans didn't make playoffs, without they wouldn't make playoffs Rodgers is clear choice like the guy told Ralph Kiner, when he asked for a raise: we finished last with you, we can finish last without you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 In a 14 game season before all the offense favoring rules,Namath threw for 4,007 yards in 1967.. I agree. He did it in an age where it was an absolute feat to pull off such a stat. Aaron Rodgers threw just 336 more yards than Ryan Tannehill this year. What Namath did against that level of defense back in 67 11 players did this year facing nothing even close to those type of defense in respect to what they were able to do on that side of the ball. The MVP is being diminished because a defensive guy that has such an "all time great" year against the type off offenses he's facing today can't seriously be considered for the award. JJ Watt as a defender has the chips stacked against him in respects to the type of game played today as Namath did in 67 with the rules stacked geared for actual defense to be present on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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