The Sad Folks at the Chiefs Forum

[abyzmul]

Dude, how do you put up with this guy over at TGG?

junc is like that guy picking up golf balls on the driving range, everybody wants to take a shot at him and it makes things interesting.

[nyjunc]

Then why did he take credit for ''turning around'' the Jets franchise continuously during his tenure here?

When did he take credit for that? He deserves credit for caoching them but when did he say he put the team together?

Because he did turn them around. He took a playoff caliber team and turned them into one of the worst teams in the league.

Yep a playoff caliber team that had not made the postseason in 3 years and made it only 2 times in 14 years.

Name one player Herm has developed in his 8 years as a HC, besides Brandon Moore.

He doesn't get credit when guys developed undre hgim? Guys like Chad, Coles, Moss, Lamont, Vilma, Rhodes, Coleman, etc...

Weren't you one of the people who predicted super bowl for the Chiefs when Herm took over? You do realize he took over the highest ranked offense in the league right?

We are goin to make thing sup now? Fiond me a quote where I predcited KC would be in the SB.

That high flying O led KC to exactly ZERO playoff apps the 2 previous years before Herm got there and they lost 3 key offensive players including 2 excellent OL(1 a HOFer) so would you rather score more points and lose or score less and win? favre is mcertainly more exciting than Chad but I had more fun watching Chad win than watching Brett be exciting.

1st round picks first three years

Chiefs

2006 - Tamba Hali

2007 - Dwayne Bowe

2008 - Glenn Dorsey

Jets

2001 - Santana Moss

2002 - Bryan Thomas

2003 - Dwayne Robertson.

Looks like a Herm built team to me.

If you think Carl Peterson is allowing Herm to pick players then you are nuts and eother way those are all good picks so TB and CP did a good job w/ those.

Jericho Cotchery. It was Herm's tough love leaving him on the bench which caused his development to accellerate. Picture those Rocky movies where Rocky is on his own in the wilderness running through the snow carrying a dead elk on his back or some such.

another Jet fan myth. Cotch didn't play al;ot as a ROOKIE b/c he was behind 3 good WRs, he played alot in year 2 the probelm was we had a 4th string QB playing most of the season.

Bryan Thomas was a bust for 4 seasons with Herm. Now he's leading the team in sacks (I think).

Vilma and Robertson(among others) were good under Herm and struggled under Mangini- what is the point?

we had talent when herm was here. he just had no clue on how to coach them.

and if herm was coach here, Favre wouldnt be here.

He had no clue yet guided us to 3 playoffs in 4 years something that had never been done in Jets history.

You do rrealize we aren't good w/ favre, right? and you do realize Favre is holding us back right now, right?

The reason some of us still think Mangini is a good football coach is because next to Herm's Jets, our current team actually appears somewhat prepared.. not to mention can run a 2 minute drill and call time outs at appropriate places in the game.

Do you watch the Jets? We waste TOs EVERY week due to being unprepared, how many 12 men or 10 men on the field penatlies or TOs wasted b/c of them have we had?

[BP]

He doesn't get credit when guys developed undre hgim? Guys like Chad, Coles, Moss, Lamont, Vilma, Rhodes, Coleman, etc...

Yawn

He ruined John Abraham. and how exactly did he develop Bryan Thomas and Jerricho Cotcherry?

[Jet Moses]

He doesn't get credit when guys developed undre hgim? Guys like Chad, Coles, Moss, Lamont, Vilma, Rhodes, Coleman, etc...

Those are all first round picks 'cept Lamont and Coleman, and Lamont got maybe 2 carries a season.

[Jetfan_Johnny]

I for one was gald to see him go and I think people are beginning to realize how incompetent he really is.

In his defense, when he was here we normally beat the teams we were supposed to beat but never beat any of the better teams. He would have beat the raiders last week.

Although that could be because the talent here was good enough to overcome him against weaker teams but not good enough to do so against the more talented teams.

The playoff loss in Pittsburgh was all him

[Jet Moses]

I for one was gald to see him go and I think people are beginning to realize how incompetent he really is.

In his defense, when he was here we normally beat the teams we were supposed to beat but never beat any of the better teams. He would have beat the raiders last week.

Although that could be because the talent here was good enough to overcome him against weaker teams but not good enough to do so against the more talented teams.

The playoff loss in Pittsburgh was all him

Herm is a fraud. He takes over winning teams, exhausts all the mileage that he can out of the core veterans, doesn't develop anybody to eventually step in and replace said veterans, runs the team into the ground and then splits.

[nyjunc]

Yawn

He ruined John Abraham. and how exactly did he develop Bryan Thomas and Jerricho Cotcherry?

Please explain to me how he ruined John Abraham- he made John injury prone? John was great when healthy but he was rarely healthy.

Those are all first round picks 'cept Lamont and Coleman, and Lamont got maybe 2 carries a season.

First rd picks do not need to be developed? I guess we should get rid of Gholston then and I remember in '02 before Chad got his shot most jet fans wanted him gone as they didn't think he could play in this league.

I for one was gald to see him go and I think people are beginning to realize how incompetent he really is.

In his defense, when he was here we normally beat the teams we were supposed to beat but never beat any of the better teams. He would have beat the raiders last week.

Although that could be because the talent here was good enough to overcome him against weaker teams but not good enough to do so against the more talented teams.

The playoff loss in Pittsburgh was all him

It was a miracle we were even in that game against the Steelers as we played the NFL's top D w/ a QB who had a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder. The K was put in position to hit 1 of 2 makeable kicks and he failed. The decision to take a knee was silly BUT the K should have been able to make a K he barely missed from 4 yards back 2 mins earlier.

[nyjunc]

Herm is a fraud. He takes over winning teams, exhausts all the mileage that he can out of the core veterans, doesn't develop anybody to eventually step in and replace said veterans, runs the team into the ground and then splits.

He takes over winning teams? When has he ever taken over a winning team?

Jets:

took over in 2001, team missed postseason in 1999 and 2000 and 12 of 14 years- that's winning?

Chiefs:

Took over in 2006, team missed postseason in 2004 and 2005 and 7 of 8 years- that's winning?

[Jet Moses]

First rd picks do not need to be developed? I guess we should get rid of Gholston then and I remember in '02 before Chad got his shot most jet fans wanted him gone as they didn't think he could play in this league.

Dude, my point is, you have to develop players to inevitably replace aging or depart via free agency veterans.

Every time a player got injured or left as a free agent, his replacement stunk, or he wasn't prepared at all.

[Jetfan_Johnny]

It was a miracle we were even in that game against the Steelers as we played the NFL's top D w/ a QB who had a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder. The K was put in position to hit 1 of 2 makeable kicks and he failed. The decision to take a knee was silly BUT the K should have been able to make a K he barely missed from 4 yards back 2 mins earlier.

The decision to take a knee was silly? Silly? Are you kidding me?

[Bugeater]

He takes over winning teams? When has he ever taken over a winning team?

Jets:

took over in 2001, team missed postseason in 1999 and 2000 and 12 of 14 years- that's winning?

Chiefs:

Took over in 2006, team missed postseason in 2004 and 2005 and 7 of 8 years- that's winning?

To be fair, the 2005 team went 10-6 and didn't make the playoffs because the AFC was unusually strong that year. That was still by my definition a "winning team".

[nyjunc]

Dude, my point is, you have to develop players to inevitably replace aging or depart via free agency veterans.

Every time a player got injured or left as a free agent, his replacement stunk, or he wasn't prepared at all.

The team made the playoffs 2 times after retooling. In 2001 he won w/ the players that BP and Groh couldn't the previous 2 years but starting in '02 we had major changes(although Coles stepped into a new role and farrior had his best year of his jet career)

2002 new key players or old players in key new roles:

Chad, Moss, Machado(forced to start b/c Szott missed 12 games), Kareem Mckenzie, Josh Evans, Cowart, D. Abe, Garnes, ,,,

2004:

Brandon Moore, Jerald Sowell(replaced Anderson in '03), McCareins, Moss(replaced Coles as our top WR in '03), Pete kendall, Mark brown stepped in for an injured Hobson and played really well, Vilma, Coleman, Barrett, Barton, Tongue, ...

He made the playoffs w/ almost 3 different teams w/ us. That's pretty damn impressive and proof they replaced players very well that they lost.

The decision to take a knee was silly? Silly? Are you kidding me?

What do you want me to say? It was the worst decision in the history of mankind? The K has to make the kick, it was a makeable kick.

[nyjunc]

To be fair, the 2005 team went 10-6 and didn't make the playoffs because the AFC was unusually strong that year. That was still by my definition a "winning team".

Yes but that team was much more talented then the '06 Chiefs and they won their 10th game when Cincy rested their startes the final week. They were essentially elminated after week 15 and won 2 meaningless games the last 2 weeks including the game over the 2nd string bengals.

[Jetfan_Johnny]

What do you want me to say? It was the worst decision in the history of mankind? The K has to make the kick, it was a makeable kick.

The kicks clearly weren't makeable since he didn't make them . Once he missed the 47 yarder he sould have realized that anyithing longer than 40 was a pipe dream.

This is another case of it wasn't his fault. It never was his fault it was always the Dc or the OC or the K. Never did the HC take any of the responsibility.

[nyjunc]

The kicks clearly weren't makeable since he didn't make them . Once he missed the 47 yarder he sould have realized that anyithing longer than 40 was a pipe dream.

This is another case of it wasn't his fault. It never was his fault it was always the Dc or the OC or the K. Never did the HC take any of the responsibility.

Oh so if a K doesn't make them they are not makeable? So I guess we couldn't win last Sunday b/c we didn't win? We couldn't win a SB w/ Herm or any copach b eside Weeb b/c we didn't do it?

He hit the crossbar on the 47 yarder, he missed by INCHES. He then had a kick 4 yards CLOSER, if he kicked it the same way he makes it but he shanked it.

The Coach did take responsibility and he does deserve SOME blame but he also deserves somce credit too, right? The fact the game was even close w/ the QB playing w/ a torn rotator cuff was an amazing job of coaching and the fact that we beat the 12-4 Chargers who didn't lose at home to anybody besides us in 2004 was a great job of coaching but all you guys want to do is take credit away. How have things worked out for us since he left?

[RSJ]

The team made the playoffs 2 times after retooling. In 2001 he won w/ the players that BP and Groh couldn't the previous 2 years but starting in '02 we had major changes(although Coles stepped into a new role and farrior had his best year of his jet career)

2002 new key players or old players in key new roles:

Chad, Moss, Machado(forced to start b/c Szott missed 12 games), Kareem Mckenzie, Josh Evans, Cowart, D. Abe, Garnes, ,,,

2004:

Brandon Moore, Jerald Sowell(replaced Anderson in '03), McCareins, Moss(replaced Coles as our top WR in '03), Pete kendall, Mark brown stepped in for an injured Hobson and played really well, Vilma, Coleman, Barrett, Barton, Tongue, ...

He made the playoffs w/ almost 3 different teams w/ us. That's pretty damn impressive and proof they replaced players very well that they lost.

The Jets team he took over made it to the Championship 2 years prior. The Chiefs had the best offense in the league.

Are you out of your mind in mentioning some of these players? McCarriens, Mark Brown, Tongue, Garnes, Cowart and Machado all sucked. Suprised you forgot Beasley, and Curtis Conway.

As far as Vilma goes his only good year was behind a Parcells guy in Jason Fergeson. S Moss was great at running out of bounds. Chad and Coles were inherited and only given opportunities when Herm had no other choice. J Abe was playing out of position and sucks against the run in a 4-3.

Care to start listting the players he let go that won super bowls with the Pats? or the very good corners he let go and replaced with these scrubs?

[Jet Moses]

Care to start listting the players he let go that won super bowls with the Pats? or the very good corners he let go and replaced with these scrubs?

All the players he cut his first year won or at least played in a SB with the Pat's, Panthers and Bucs.

Herman Edwards is a F'n *sshole.

[BP]

Please explain to me how he ruined John Abraham- he made John injury prone? John was great when healthy but he was rarely healthy.

He should have never been moved to DE. he's too small. he needs open space to pursue on running plays, and rush the passer only on passing plays. that's why he gets hurt all the time. and Herm also let him get away with murder with his sorry ass attitude.

[serphnx]

He should have never been moved to DE. he's too small. he needs open space to pursue on running plays, and rush the passer only on passing plays. that's why he gets hurt all the time. and Herm also let him get away with murder with his sorry ass attitude.

He threw a fit when we tried to make him an LB. He said we were just trying to pay him less money. JAbe is an idiot. Herm is too, but this one I can blame more on JAbe.

[BP]

He threw a fit when we tried to make him an LB. He said we were just trying to pay him less money. JAbe is an idiot. Herm is too, but this one I can blame more on JAbe.

The fit was caused by Herm catering to the players. I remember Groh grabbing him by his jersey and yelling at him in a preseason game in 2000, Abe looked like a frightened puppy. he needed more of that than the ass kissing Herm gave him. that was the problem.

[nyjunc]

The Jets team he took over made it to the Championship 2 years prior. The Chiefs had the best offense in the league.

Are you out of your mind in mentioning some of these players? McCarriens, Mark Brown, Tongue, Garnes, Cowart and Machado all sucked. Suprised you forgot Beasley, and Curtis Conway.

As far as Vilma goes his only good year was behind a Parcells guy in Jason Fergeson. S Moss was great at running out of bounds. Chad and Coles were inherited and only given opportunities when Herm had no other choice. J Abe was playing out of position and sucks against the run in a 4-3.

Care to start listting the players he let go that won super bowls with the Pats? or the very good corners he let go and replaced with these scrubs?

We were in the title game 3 years earlier, the next 2 years we didn't even make the playoffs.

How did all these players suck and the coach sucked yet we made the playoffs 3 of 4 years? How does that happen?

So it counts for Mangini that Bryan Thomas & Cotcery became good players under him but Chad & Coles developing and farrior having his best Jets year under him don't count? Got it.

Who did he let go that was great?

All the players he cut his first year won or at least played in a SB with the Pat's, Panthers and Bucs.

Herman Edwards is a F'n *sshole.

We had no cap room when they took over so we had to let guys like Cox and Phifer go. Who were these other players we let go? please list them?

He should have never been moved to DE. he's too small. he needs open space to pursue on running plays, and rush the passer only on passing plays. that's why he gets hurt all the time. and Herm also let him get away with murder with his sorry ass attitude.

he developed into one of the game's best pass rushers at DE and still is when healthy. In 2000 he play LB in the 3-4 in pass rushing sitautions only and guess what? he lasted just 6 games!

[Lil Bit Special]

He had no clue yet guided us to 3 playoffs in 4 years something that had never been done in Jets history.

You do rrealize we aren't good w/ favre, right? and you do realize Favre is holding us back right now, right?

HERM DIDNT GUIDE US INTO THE PLAYOFFS. The players did. We made the playoffs in spite of herm edwards. Herm was the lucky recipient of a team that could beat weak teams at the right time.

We arent good with Favre? We lost 1 bad game so far. To Oakland. I'll hold off judging this season until the end. And Favre isnt holding us back. He has made plays in every game that Penny or Clemens couldnt make. We are better with Favre than without.

Its sad you are so blinded by Hermie. Its sad you cant see what he did to our team. Its sad you bash the current jets to try and make hermie look better. Herm is a terrible coach. He is a terrible judge of talent. He is terrible with in game adjustments. He is terrible at picking coordinators and coaches.

The only 2 things herm edwards is good at is:

1. blaming everyone else when the team sucks

2. cheerleading.

other than that he is a waste. He would make a great college coach because he could sucker young black kids to come play for his program and let his coordinators teach the players and call the plays.

[nyjunc]

HERM DIDNT GUIDE US INTO THE PLAYOFFS. The players did. We made the playoffs in spite of herm edwards. Herm was the lucky recipient of a team that could beat weak teams at the right time.

We arent good with Favre? We lost 1 bad game so far. To Oakland. I'll hold off judging this season until the end. And Favre isnt holding us back. He has made plays in every game that Penny or Clemens couldnt make. We are better with Favre than without.

Its sad you are so blinded by Hermie. Its sad you cant see what he did to our team. Its sad you bash the current jets to try and make hermie look better. Herm is a terrible coach. He is a terrible judge of talent. He is terrible with in game adjustments. He is terrible at picking coordinators and coaches.

The only 2 things herm edwards is good at is:

1. blaming everyone else when the team sucks

2. cheerleading.

other than that he is a waste. He would make a great college coach because he could sucker young black kids to come play for his program and let his coordinators teach the players and call the plays.

If we made the playoffs in spite of Herm how come we didn't make it the 2 years prior to his arrival? How come we didn't make it last year?

We lost TWO bad games, to Oak and to the Brady-less Pats and we let a bad Cincy team hang around thanks to Favre.

All the FACTS support me, YOU are blinded by your hatred of the man.

I don't bash the current Jets, I tell it like it is just like I did w/ Herm. I criticized herm alot too but that wasn't good enough b/c I also saw all the good things he did for us. I appreciated going to the playoffs nearly every year. It sucks being mediocre again.

[Lil Bit Special]

If we made the playoffs in spite of Herm how come we didn't make it the 2 years prior to his arrival? How come we didn't make it last year?

We lost TWO bad games, to Oak and to the Brady-less Pats and we let a bad Cincy team hang around thanks to Favre.

All the FACTS support me, YOU are blinded by your hatred of the man.

I don't bash the current Jets, I tell it like it is just like I did w/ Herm. I criticized herm alot too but that wasn't good enough b/c I also saw all the good things he did for us. I appreciated going to the playoffs nearly every year. It sucks being mediocre again.

No Im not blinded by my hatred. I was at every home game during his tenure. I saw the potential those teams had. I saw Herm never coming up with a good game plan. I saw Herm never make a halftime adjustment. I saw it with my own eyes how horrible of a coach he was. I dont rely on stats to try and prove my point. I go by what Herm did here. I didnt start hating him until 2004 when I finally woke up and realized he really was a dipsh!t.

I wish I had the time right now to go back through Herm's tenure here. But I dont. Plus, its a waste of time because it will never change your mind. You are so hung up on 3 playoff appearances as if losing in the playoffs meant something.

What good things did herm do for the Jets? 3 playoff appearances that went nowhere? Teaching fans the nursery rhyme "hey diddle diddle Curtis up the Middle" Or the proper way to call plays are run,run, pass.

[nyjunc]

No Im not blinded by my hatred. I was at every home game during his tenure. I saw the potential those teams had. I saw Herm never coming up with a good game plan. I saw Herm never make a halftime adjustment. I saw it with my own eyes how horrible of a coach he was. I dont rely on stats to try and prove my point. I go by what Herm did here. I didnt start hating him until 2004 when I finally woke up and realized he really was a dipsh!t.

I wish I had the time right now to go back through Herm's tenure here. But I dont. Plus, its a waste of time because it will never change your mind. You are so hung up on 3 playoff appearances as if losing in the playoffs meant something.

What good things did herm do for the Jets? 3 playoff appearances that went nowhere? Teaching fans the nursery rhyme "hey diddle diddle Curtis up the Middle" Or the proper way to call plays are run,run, pass.

I was at every home too and I saw a team living up to it's potential in most cases. We had a DYNASTY team in our division those 5 years and still we managed to win a div title(the ONLY non-Pats AFC East Title since 2001).

He inherited a team that was going through coaches on an annual basis. We had 6 coaches in 8 seasons from '93-'00(Coslet, Carroll, Kotite, BP, BB for a day, groh). We went through 3 coaches in less than a year and all 3 walked out on us! NOBODY wanted the Jets job, it was a sinking ship yet he came in here and stabilized things for us and won alot of games. Have some damn appreciation for that.

[KSJets]

Not out of the woodwrok, I choose not to get into the silly herm discussions that always go on here and it's extremely sad you guys still talk about him so much but we are playing them this week and in case anyone hasn't noticed our HC stinks and has alot more talent to work w/ than Herm does now and probably more than Herm ever had here in NY.

That's bull**** and you know it. If you choose to not get into the silly Herm discussions, then how come most of your posts, both here and on TGG, are about defending Herm and Chad everytime your boy Hermie is criticized?

[KSJets]

Dude, how do you put up with this guy over at TGG?

Trust me, next to some of the other posters, this guy is tame in comparison.

[serphnx]

The fit was caused by Herm catering to the players. I remember Groh grabbing him by his jersey and yelling at him in a preseason game in 2000, Abe looked like a frightened puppy. he needed more of that than the ass kissing Herm gave him. that was the problem.

I'm in the minority, but I actually liked Groh. The only complaint against him was that he allegedly worked the players too hard. That was BS, they were just lazy babies and didn't want to put the work in. If it was really a problem, they should have gone to him and said something instead of cried to the media about it.

Mangini worked the players hard too and let up a bit recently. The players don't seem to be better for it, so maybe he'll go back to tough training camps again.

Coughlin has a ton of rules and was about to get fired last year, but now with the SB everyone sides with him. Parcells is hard nosed too. I have a feeling Fischer is too, just the way he runs a team, you can't pull that off unless you're playing hard in practice and have that mentality of just beating down the opponent.

Oh well, he's gone and it's done now, and we already suffered through the Herm era.

[124]

I liked Groh too but the lasting rememberance of him was losing the final three games of the season to go from 9-4 to 9-7 and missing the playoffs. God that was awful.

[Jet Moses]

I liked Groh too but the lasting rememberance of him was losing the final three games of the season to go from 9-4 to 9-7 and missing the playoffs. God that was awful.

The Ravens loss at the end of the season was the worst.

[124]

The Ravens loss at the end of the season was the worst.

Wasn't that Christmas Eve or Christmas Day? I remember watching that game all dressed up for the holiday (If you call a Jets polo tucked into some Khahki's dressed up) at my Grandma's house and just sitting their having a misreable day.

F'ing Jets.

Only them.

Although I thougt the Hall miss against Detroit was worse, probably because I was there for that one.

[BP]

he developed into one of the game's best pass rushers at DE and still is when healthy. In 2000 he play LB in the 3-4 in pass rushing sitautions only and guess what? he lasted just 6 games!

You're so full of ****. he had a hernia. it had nothing to do with being pounded on by huge lineman like the rest of his career.

[nyjunc]

That's bull**** and you know it. If you choose to not get into the silly Herm discussions, then how come most of your posts, both here and on TGG, are about defending Herm and Chad everytime your boy Hermie is criticized?

Most here? Maybe since there is a group still obsesssed w/ him and I don't post alot here but not at TGG. I post about it when others try to make up lies and post it. I am a defender of truth and when I see lies being spread I need to step in.

You're so full of ****. he had a hernia. it had nothing to do with being pounded on by huge lineman like the rest of his career.

Was he hurt? Was his knee injury a result of getting pounded? was his illness in '01 a resulted of getting pounded? If he punted for us he would have found a way to get hurt.

[RSJ]

Most here? Maybe since there is a group still obsesssed w/ him and I don't post alot here but not at TGG. I post about it when others try to make up lies and post it. I am a defender of truth and when I see lies being spread I need to step in.

Was he hurt? Was his knee injury a result of getting pounded? was his illness in '01 a resulted of getting pounded? If he punted for us he would have found a way to get hurt.

So it was Bradway's fault that the Jets had no talent when Herm left and now it is CP's fault he has none in KC? Got it.

The problem with that is that like I said earlier, both places personel moves were identical. The difference is Parcells left Herm with a better roster than he was left with in KC.

[nyjunc]

So it was Bradway's fault that the Jets had no talent when Herm left and now it is CP's fault he has none in KC? Got it.

The problem with that is that like I said earlier, both places personel moves were identical. The difference is Parcells left Herm with a better roster than he was left with in KC.

We had talent when Herm left, we were beat up in 2005 which is why we stunk. It IS Carl Peterson's fault KC has little talent. They have some good, young talent but not on the OL or at QB and those are 2 pretty important areas, right?