Would You Take a Drafted Upgrade Over Bart Scott?

[TNJet]

You didn't watch the game if you think Harris would have done any better than Scott. If he were going to he should have. Scott blew up about 5 or 6 plays and blew one. You counted three which is more plays that I saw Harris making. The best hit Harris had all night was blasting Leonhard who was holding some Giant up. You either didn't watch the game or are so ridiculously biased it's not worth discussing.

I watched the whole game brother, geez, thats why I noticed how crappy Scott played. He missed Bradshaw twice when he shouldnt have, and overran a wr and looked ridiculous leading to a big gain up the left sideline. You can say the same thing about the way you bash Harris...and why? wtf did he do wrong, he always is a tackling machine that doesnt miss tackles he's paid to make unlike Bart. Harris also had a great int, that unfortunately he stepped out of bounds on. Why do you not think Harris is a pro bowl caliber LB? But Scott is?

[Jetsfan80]

Does it list all the miss tackles as well? Harris is better in every way.

It shows how many times Scott makes the stop and how many yards they get on him. Scott is better in both categories than Harris, by a lot. I don't see where all these "missed tackles" are. In fact, last season Scott made the play on runs at him 70 % of the time, which put him at 4th in the NFL among ILB's. The 2.5 yards per play runners gained on him? 2nd in the NFL.

And I know you sing BT's praises, and he IS indeed a superb run-stopper. But there's a reason we take him off the field in obvious passing situations.

[#27TheDominator]

Does it list all the miss tackles as well? Harris is better in every way.

Your stamina is incredible. I don't want to sit here beating on Harris who I like very much, so I am waving the white flag. Maybe you should watch Monday night's game again though because you evidently didn't see it very well.

[#27TheDominator]

I watched the whole game brother, geez, thats why I noticed how crappy Scott played. He missed Bradshaw twice when he shouldnt have, and overran a wr and looked ridiculous leading to a big gain up the left sideline. You can say the same thing about the way you bash Harris...and why? wtf did he do wrong, he always is a tackling machine that doesnt miss tackles he's paid to make unlike Bart. Harris also had a great int, that unfortunately he stepped out of bounds on. Why do you not think Harris is a pro bowl caliber LB? But Scott is?

Ha. I am back before I give up completely. Harris missed tackles on Bradshaw twice? The ******* guy had one catch where Scott missed him in the open field. There is no shame in that, but it was a minus play. Bradshaw also had three carries for five yards so when the **** did Scott miss him again?

I'm not sending either of them to the pro bowl. I am perfectly happy with them. You are the one that wants to dump a guy who outplayed your stud.

[TNJet]

Your stamina is incredible. I don't want to sit here beating on Harris who I like very much, so I am waving the white flag. Maybe you should watch Monday night's game again though because you evidently didn't see it very well.

Whats your excuse going to be when Harris is still our starting ILB and Scott leaves in a couple years? Age right thats all...tell that to Ray Lewis. Great ones will stay great, overrated ones will soon be replaced by better ones, just like Scott will.

[sirlancemehlot]

Actually, Scott and Pace are our best linebackers, and Harris isn't really close to them yet. See: Advanced metrics, any NFL scout's analysis. Both of those guys do SO much more than what shows up in the box score or what is apparent to the untrained eye. They are both well worth the money we shelled out to bring them in as free agents.

Also, Bryan Thomas has been excellent, especially since Rex arrived.

Holy crap. Harris isn't as good as Scott or Pace? Not even close? Thomas is Excellent? Hmph. I just really don';t agree. Man, Advanced Metrics or not, I watch football, I coach football and I know football. Dude, I strongly disagree.

[#27TheDominator]

Whats your excuse going to be when Harris is still our starting ILB and Scott leaves in a couple years? Age right thats all...tell that to Ray Lewis. Great ones will stay great, overrated ones will soon be replaced by better ones, just like Scott will.

A couple of years? Who gives a flaming **** about a couple of years? The Jets could be playing in Los Angeles by then. You want the guy to be Ray Lewis. I have news for you, neither of them is Ray Lewis. Let's keep drafting ILBs because they aren't among the top 3 LBs ever to play the game? The whole discussion strains credibility.

[TNJet]

Ha. I am back before I give up completely. Harris missed tackles on Bradshaw twice? The ******* guy had one catch where Scott missed him in the open field. There is no shame in that, but it was a minus play. Bradshaw also had three carries for five yards so when the **** did Scott miss him again?

I'm not sending either of them to the pro bowl. I am perfectly happy with them. You are the one that wants to dump a guy who outplayed your stud.

He never has and never will. He's simply not a good enough tackler to do that. However Scott made a nice tackle for a loss on a rb up the middle that actually shocked me, since he wrapped him up and didnt just slow his momentum down like he usually does. Its like Scott settles to just get in their way, while his teammates clean up his messes and put the runners down.

[TNJet]

A couple of years? Who gives a flaming **** about a couple of years? The Jets could be playing in Los Angeles by then. You want the guy to be Ray Lewis. I have news for you, neither of them is Ray Lewis. Let's keep drafting ILBs because they aren't among the top 3 LBs ever to play the game? The whole discussion strains credibility.

yes because you keep defending the most overrated player on our defense man.

[TNJet]

Holy crap. Harris isn't as good as Scott or Pace? Not even close? Thomas is Excellent? Hmph. I just really don';t agree. Man, Advanced Metrics or not, I watch football, I coach football and I know football. Dude, I strongly disagree.

Thank you. I knew someone else should think Harris is a great player other than me. :rollsphuckineyes:

[Bleedin Green]

Exhibit B proving the need for the return of neg rep.

[RutgersJetFan]

Holy crap. Harris isn't as good as Scott or Pace? Not even close? Thomas is Excellent? Hmph. I just really don';t agree. Man, Advanced Metrics or not, I watch football, I coach football and I know football. Dude, I strongly disagree.

You should disagree, because that isn't what those metrics say. Scott and Pace are better at some things than Harris, and Harris is better in some things than Scott and Pace. Overall rankings get skewed particularly because when you're that weak in one aspect of your game, players who may be weaker in said category will be ranked higher from an overall standpoint because the numbers don't offset. However with the NFL being a passing game now, one can easily assess how to weigh each ranking. There's a reason why they lay each measure out on their own and don't just give you broad deviations.

Thomas is a very good overall player, excellent is a stretch. For a guy who plays an awful lot of rush backer and doesn't get put in a position where he'd show up on a conventional stat sheet, he puts up very good metrics because they account for things that the naked eye and conventional statistics don't due to his specific role in this defense. That you don't agree with them doesn't mean they still aren't useful.

[RutgersJetFan]

Does it list all the miss tackles as well? Harris is better in every way.

List? No. Account for? Yes.

PFF however, does list missed tackles, Scott ranked 6th in the league in attempts per missed tackle, which is pretty great. 4th in the league amongst 3-4 ILB's actually. Harris wasn't anywhere close to this.

It's also worth noting that amongst 3-4 OLB's, Thomas finished 3rd.

Thank you. I knew someone else should think Harris is a great player other than me. :rollsphuckineyes:

Harris is a great player. The naked eye says he's a great player. Conventional statistics say he's a great player. Advanced metrics say he's a great player. That you're incapable of interpreting quantitative analysis doesn't mean you should get all pissy.

[#27TheDominator]

yes because you keep defending the most overrated player on our defense man.

In two years, if he sucks I will say he sucks. If he is still playing like this I won't start a new threa every time he misses a tackle. The guy is a beast and everybody knows it. You don't like his talking? Lower the volume, but the ******* guy could play and anybody who looks can see it.

Harris is a great player. The naked eye says he's a great player. Conventional statistics say he's a great player. Advanced metrics say he's a great player. That you're incapable of interpreting quantitative analysis doesn't mean you should get all pissy.

You may have to edit. He is berating Scott. He knows Harris is great. I personally wouldn't call either of them great, but I am a little less likely to throw that around. Taylor was great, Butkus was great. Plenty of others to be sure, but these guys are at the top of their game right now.

[bitonti]

David Harris is an absolute beast right now. He's their best linebacker.

[RutgersJetFan]

You may have to edit. He is berating Scott. He knows Harris is great. I personally wouldn't call either of them great, but I am a little less likely to throw that around. Taylor was great, Butkus was great. Plenty of others to be sure, but these guys are at the top of their game right now.

Both are great. Scott is better. When counterpoints mainly consist of nothing but 'zomg this is what I see with my own eyes,' the need for deliberative discussion pretty goes out the window at that point. No measure whatsoever agrees with that sentiment. Including missed tackles; which is actually blown completely out of proportion in the context of this thread considering Patrick Willis finished the season 36th in attempts per miss. The top 3 in that category for M/ILB's are Brandon Spikes, Kirk Morrison, and Takeo Spikes. Does anyone in their right mind think those are the best 3 M/ILB's in the league?

But that's the point. The funny part is that guys like the above will flock to the movie theater this fall, watch Moneyball, and come out saying "Man, Billy Beane is a genius, I can't believe those old farts really refused to go by what were obvious and better forms of measurement," then be right back here posting opposite sentiments because it's about da foozeball and well dat's what dey know with their own eyes and dat's all I need!

[#27TheDominator]

Both are great. Scott is better. When counterpoints mainly consist of nothing but 'zomg this is what I see with my own eyes,' the need for deliberative discussion pretty goes out the window at that point. No measure whatsoever agrees with that sentiment. Including missed tackles; which is actually blown completely out of proportion in the context of this thread considering Patrick Willis finished the season 36th in attempts per miss. The top 3 in that category for M/ILB's are Brandon Spikes, Kirk Morrison, and Takeo Spikes. Does anyone in their right mind think those are the best 3 M/ILB's in the league?

But that's the point. The funny part is that guys like the above will flock to the movie theater this fall, watch Moneyball, and come out saying "Man, Billy Beane is a genius, I can't believe those old farts really refused to go by what were obvious and better forms of measurement," then be right back here posting opposite sentiments because it's about da foozeball and well dat's what dey know with their own eyes and dat's all I need!

Actually, what is funny is that I am a neanderthal who likes to use my eyes. The reason I am so shocked is that according to my eyes Scott had a better game than Harris Monday. It seems obvious to anybody that neither needs to be replaced - unless you are looking to add coverage and they both blow at that. Scott completely whiffed on one obvious play. Otherwise he had an excellent night and made several plays at the LOS. What I find most strange is that the OP likes Bellore, but still wants to draft an ILB. Bellore is certainly behind Mauga so I'd say we are okay for near future.

[SenorGato]

Both are great. Scott is better. When counterpoints mainly consist of nothing but 'zomg this is what I see with my own eyes,' the need for deliberative discussion pretty goes out the window at that point. No measure whatsoever agrees with that sentiment. Including missed tackles; which is actually blown completely out of proportion in the context of this thread considering Patrick Willis finished the season 36th in attempts per miss. The top 3 in that category for M/ILB's are Brandon Spikes, Kirk Morrison, and Takeo Spikes. Does anyone in their right mind think those are the best 3 M/ILB's in the league?

But that's the point. The funny part is that guys like the above will flock to the movie theater this fall, watch Moneyball, and come out saying "Man, Billy Beane is a genius, I can't believe those old farts really refused to go by what were obvious and better forms of measurement," then be right back here posting opposite sentiments because it's about da foozeball and well dat's what dey know with their own eyes and dat's all I need!

*shakes fist*

I'm an eye guy and I think Scott has been the key to our run D since he's been here. The word for the guy is ferocious.

Football needs some kind of easy to read 250 page book with a character that can be played by a big Hollywood actor that knows the new Secret in the sport.