Blackout Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 never thought I would say this...or THINK this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain_the_foe Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 never thought I would say this...or THINK this Playoff wise, thats an argument that can be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vudu Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I wish we had a real QB like Eli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Right now he is. It is very possible his brother will never play in another meaningful game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Right now he is. It is very possible his brother will never play in another meaningful game well that's not what I meant...I bet Peyton plays quite a few meaningful games as a Jet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYGiantFan10 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I dont liek to get into comparisons between them, but by the end of elis career, he may have 1 or 2 more rings then his brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Playoff wise, thats an argument that can be made. Eli has had 3 one and done in playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 nobody has made a Cooper Manning joke yet?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Eli has had 3 one and done in playoffs. compare that to Peyton dude hell even Brady has a three one and dones does he not? 05, 09, 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I wish we had a real QB like Eli. Who says we don't? 2006 Eli was very similar to 2011 Sanchez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 never thought I would say this...or THINK this More clutch? Probably. Better overall? I say Nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason423 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 From a big game perspective, specifically as an underdog, you can make the argument. As a favorite though Eli has been pretty dreadful in the past. But Eli has definitely cemented himself as a top 5 QB. Hes better than Roethlisberger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bLguerriero1 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 ha you cray... giants have a much better team around eli... exhibit a - colts have 1st pick in the draft ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 From a big game perspective, specifically as an underdog, you can make the argument. As a favorite though Eli has been pretty dreadful in the past. But Eli has definitely cemented himself as a top 5 QB. Hes better than Roethlisberger. What do you think has been the reason behind Eli making the jump from good to great, and is it something that might apply to Sanchez eventually? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 ha you cray... giants have a much better team around eli... exhibit a - colts have 1st pick in the draft ... yes because i'm referring to the 2011 colts huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vudu Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Who says we don't? 2006 Eli was very similar to 2011 Sanchez. SO we have to wait 5 years for Sanchez to shine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason423 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 What do you think has been the reason behind Eli making the jump from good to great, and is it something that might apply to Sanchez eventually? Right coaching staff for his skillset. Its almost that simple. Guy was a great down the field passer from the first day and they surrounded him with the appropriate talent. They had his possession guy in Toomer who had great hands to catch Elis flutter balls, and brought in Burress to go down the field and go up and get everything. They had the perfect replacement for Toomer in Steve Smith and went out and drafted a home run hitter in Nicks once Burress shot himself out of town. They always get these big tight ends with good hands, rather than the basketball skillset guy that isnt a football player. Cruz was a fluke and Im sure the only reason they even kept him around last season was because he had speed. The staff calls it perfect for him. You dont see them running 5 yard slants with Eli and a big pass or two thrown in. Its all downfield first and the short stuff worked in later on, because thats what fits him. If you put Manning in the offense the Jets ran these last few years you would never get this. It doesnt match what he can do. It also helps that the guy is completely ignorant of the media and doesnt care what they think. Its like he is oblivious to criticism. Though I see similarities in the skillset (downfield ability, inaccurate passing, questionable leadership at an early age), there are two big differences. The Jets are not making an offense to work with Sanchez. They are constructing an offense to hide Sanchez. You dont bring in a coordinator whose gameplan is to run the ball 50% of the time to turn Sanchez into Eli Manning. Secondly Sanchez is super sensitive. They give Brunell a few snaps in practice and he sulks. Tiki Barber pretty much undressed Manninng in 2007 and he and Shockey probably did that plenty of times in front of teammates before that and you wouldnt even know anyone said anything negative about Eli. It doesnt bother him in the least. Mark would have had a meltdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 SO we have to wait 5 years for Sanchez to shine? Didn't say that, I'm pretty sure 2007 Eli Manning was inconsistent, and then got his sh*t together just enough to win SB MVP honors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Great points, Jason. I guess it pays off that Eli has a bit of "I'm Keith Hernandez!" in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Cruz was a fluke wHAT???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 From a big game perspective, specifically as an underdog, you can make the argument. As a favorite though Eli has been pretty dreadful in the past. But Eli has definitely cemented himself as a top 5 QB. Hes better than Roethlisberger. Disagree ... He needs to sustain a bit longer before that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Right coaching staff for his skillset. Its almost that simple. Guy was a great down the field passer from the first day and they surrounded him with the appropriate talent. They had his possession guy in Toomer who had great hands to catch Elis flutter balls, and brought in Burress to go down the field and go up and get everything. They had the perfect replacement for Toomer in Steve Smith and went out and drafted a home run hitter in Nicks once Burress shot himself out of town. They always get these big tight ends with good hands, rather than the basketball skillset guy that isnt a football player. Cruz was a fluke and Im sure the only reason they even kept him around last season was because he had speed. The staff calls it perfect for him. You dont see them running 5 yard slants with Eli and a big pass or two thrown in. Its all downfield first and the short stuff worked in later on, because thats what fits him. If you put Manning in the offense the Jets ran these last few years you would never get this. It doesnt match what he can do. It also helps that the guy is completely ignorant of the media and doesnt care what they think. Its like he is oblivious to criticism. Though I see similarities in the skillset (downfield ability, inaccurate passing, questionable leadership at an early age), there are two big differences. The Jets are not making an offense to work with Sanchez. They are constructing an offense to hide Sanchez. You dont bring in a coordinator whose gameplan is to run the ball 50% of the time to turn Sanchez into Eli Manning. Secondly Sanchez is super sensitive. They give Brunell a few snaps in practice and he sulks. Tiki Barber pretty much undressed Manninng in 2007 and he and Shockey probably did that plenty of times in front of teammates before that and you wouldnt even know anyone said anything negative about Eli. It doesnt bother him in the least. Mark would have had a meltdown. There have been a few of us who have preached, get a coach, and talent to put Sanchez in a system to succeed, but none as good as this post, bravo. I wish you could beat this into Tanny, and Rex's head ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason423 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 wHAT???? A fluke that they ended up with him. in other words the Giants front office didnt think they were getting anything when they signed him. They almost cut him this year in camp. So I dont look at Cruz as a building block for them, a great surprise but not really part of building the team. Id look at Aaron Maybin the same way if he ends up with 13 sacks next year. Its a fluke that he ends up on your team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason423 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Disagree ... He needs to sustain a bit longer before that See I think Eli has basically been the Giants team since 2009. Roethlisberger has never been the Steelers team. Hes a great QB in a great situation that clicks on all cylinders. I think if you took Manning off the Giants they are not even a 500 team. The Steelers can get by without Ben for a few weeks at a time and still win with some pretty bad backup players. They might not win the close games that he pulls out by making a big pass with 3 guys hanging on him, but I dont think there are a ton of those games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 oh ok i see cruz being a fixture for the giants for a few good years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Right coaching staff for his skillset. Its almost that simple. Guy was a great down the field passer from the first day and they surrounded him with the appropriate talent. They had his possession guy in Toomer who had great hands to catch Elis flutter balls, and brought in Burress to go down the field and go up and get everything. They had the perfect replacement for Toomer in Steve Smith and went out and drafted a home run hitter in Nicks once Burress shot himself out of town. They always get these big tight ends with good hands, rather than the basketball skillset guy that isnt a football player. Cruz was a fluke and Im sure the only reason they even kept him around last season was because he had speed. The staff calls it perfect for him. You dont see them running 5 yard slants with Eli and a big pass or two thrown in. Its all downfield first and the short stuff worked in later on, because thats what fits him. If you put Manning in the offense the Jets ran these last few years you would never get this. It doesnt match what he can do. It also helps that the guy is completely ignorant of the media and doesnt care what they think. Its like he is oblivious to criticism. Though I see similarities in the skillset (downfield ability, inaccurate passing, questionable leadership at an early age), there are two big differences. The Jets are not making an offense to work with Sanchez. They are constructing an offense to hide Sanchez. You dont bring in a coordinator whose gameplan is to run the ball 50% of the time to turn Sanchez into Eli Manning. Secondly Sanchez is super sensitive. They give Brunell a few snaps in practice and he sulks. Tiki Barber pretty much undressed Manninng in 2007 and he and Shockey probably did that plenty of times in front of teammates before that and you wouldnt even know anyone said anything negative about Eli. It doesnt bother him in the least. Mark would have had a meltdown. Thanks, Jason. Tremendous points. I guess it really does all fall into Tanbenbaum's lap. It boggles my mind why Woody puts the entire organization into the hands of a 40 year old cap guru and instead won't go out and hire an old hand to oversee his investment. You'd think they could avoid many of these mistakes that trace back to Tannenbaum's naïveté. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Who says we don't? 2006 Eli was very similar to 2011 Sanchez. Which was also fairly similar to Joey Harrington's 3rd year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 See I think Eli has basically been the Giants team since 2009. Roethlisberger has never been the Steelers team. Hes a great QB in a great situation that clicks on all cylinders. I think if you took Manning off the Giants they are not even a 500 team. The Steelers can get by without Ben for a few weeks at a time and still win with some pretty bad backup players. They might not win the close games that he pulls out by making a big pass with 3 guys hanging on him, but I dont think there are a ton of those games. Eli was awful last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Eli was awful last year well he had over 30 TDs and lead his team to 10 wins and threw for over 4K yards who was awful last year? alex smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Which was also fairly similar to Joey Harrington's 3rd year. I haven't looked, but I'll take your word for it stat wise, but we all know team wise, it wasn't how many wins did he have that year I'm pretty sure it wasn't 8. Also there are a lot of QB's who became above average and had simalar seasons, the question is where will Sanchez end up, IMO you have to keep him, surround him with the correct system and talent and find out, you drafted him 5 overall he went to 2 AFCCG, it would be stupid to quit on him after 1 8-8 season. He might be the next Joey Harrington, but he also might be the next Eli, if he is I hope it happens here not somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I haven't looked, but I'll take your word for it stat wise, but we all know team wise, it wasn't how many wins did he have that year I'm pretty sure it wasn't 8. Also there are a lot of QB's who became above average and had simalar seasons, the question is where will Sanchez end up, IMO you have to keep him, surround him with the correct system and talent and find out, you drafted him 5 overall he went to 2 AFCCG, it would be stupid to quit on him after 1 8-8 season. He might be the next Joey Harrington, but he also might be the next Eli, if he is I hope it happens here not somewhere else. Sure, you keep him. The point being, you plan for the future as well. He hasn't done enough to merit being the uncontested starter, nor is he above being upgraded if the right opportunity comes along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason423 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Eli was awful last year Nah. He wasnt great but he was by no means awful. He was still an above average player. His picks were like the opposite of the Sanchez non-picks that season. Eli had so many passes that were bouncing off guys hands that teams were picking off. Sanchez would throw the ball right to the other team and they would drop it. If not for the meltdown against the Eagles they were going to be 11-5 and win the NFC East. The Steelers were 3-1 without Ben last year and he was just a bystander in the AFC Championship game that the Jets handed to him. Im just not sure if you asked Roethlisberger to carry an offense if he could do it or not for 16 games. He has a perfect marriage in Pittsburgh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Sure, you keep him. The point being, you plan for the future as well. He hasn't done enough to merit being the uncontested starter, nor is he above being upgraded if the right opportunity comes along. Really curious to see how they handle the QB position this Spring. I wonder if they'll have the guts to use anything better than a late round pick on a QB or if they keep going out of their way not to hurt Sanchez's feelings by not bringing in legit competition for him. IMO, if they bring in a Henne or spend a second round pick on a QB, the dude should start looking into what it'll take to get out of his lease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Really curious to see how they handle the QB position this Spring. I wonder if they'll have the guts to use anything better than a late round pick on a QB or if they keep going out of their way not to hurt Sanchez's feelings by not bringing in legit competition for him. IMO, if they bring in a Henne or spens a second round pick on Sanchez, the dude should start looking into what it'll take to get out of his lease. I'd be surprised if they bring in any real competition. And honestly, I'm not even sure it matters. Next year figures to be more of the same. Maybe we'll be a few games better, but it hardly matters. The most important thing is to get actual football players out of the draft so that in a few years and post Sanchez, we can possibly be legit contenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I'd be surprised if they bring in any real competition. And honestly, I'm not even sure it matters. Next year figures to be more of the same. Maybe we'll be a few games better, but it hardly matters. The most important thing is to get actual football players out of the draft so that in a few years and post Sanchez, we can possibly be legit contenders. I think the X factor will be how sensitive Rex is to having his first really bad off-season where he's being treated like a clown everywhere he goes. I dont think he's going to let Sanchez let him look like a jackass again for too long. That leash is going to be short, IMO, and he'll want a Plan B for if/when Sanchez starts sulking. Now, we'll see who Tannenbaum sides with if it comes down to protecting his coach's image by admitting that Sanchez wasn't a good pick by bringing in a real, live QB to threaten him. The day that Sanchez gets benched will be a rough one for Tanny's résumé. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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