Tebow working out with throwing guru Tom House.

[Bleedin Green]

Kolb indeed helps my case as Arizona was one of my examples. They spent a 1st rounder on him last year, I could see why a team wouldnt want to trade picks for another mediocre QB the very next offseason even though there is a strong possibility Tebow improves them at the QB position. holy sh*t man

Why didnt Arizona sign Manning, they must not think he improves their QB position right?

It helps your argument for why Arizona specifically didn't trade for him (although it does nothing to say who they think is better between Kolb and Tebow), but the fact that a team was willing to give up a 1st for Kolb and make him their starter while no team in the league was willing to give up more than a 4th for Tebow to be anything but a backup certainly does not help your case at all. Actually, it shows you the amazing value teams put on the QB position and yet still that was the best Tebow could get.

The Manning example is so horrendously awful it's not even worth addressing again. But I feel like you're just doing this to be difficult, because I know you're really not too stupid to understand how those two situations are not even slightly comparable.

[Bleedin Green]

"...and Tim Tebow wins his third SB with the JETS, using his famous *windmill* pass, and intercepting his own fumble/punt block in the final two seconds of the game..." - Rich Eisen, somewhere in the future, possibly...

JETS fans pissed ?

Depends, after that will he ride off of the field on his unicorn?

[slats]

Just like to point out that the yards per completion statistic is used almost exclusively by liars and idiots, and never by anyone with any credibility.

[Rock Manbeef]

Just like to point out that the yards per completion statistic is used almost exclusively by liars and idiots, and never by anyone with any credibility.

Translation: Stats that support my arguments are the only ones that matter.

[JustInFudge]

It helps your argument for why Arizona specifically didn't trade for him (although it does nothing to say who they think is better between Kolb and Tebow), but the fact that a team was willing to give up a 1st for Kolb and make him their starter while no team in the league was willing to give up more than a 4th for Tebow to be anything but a backup certainly does not help your case at all. Actually, it shows you the amazing value teams put on the QB position and yet still that was the best Tebow could get.

The Manning example is so horrendously awful it's not even worth addressing again. But I feel like you're just doing this to be difficult, because I know you're really not too stupid to understand how those two situations are not even slightly comparable.

I dont even know what your talking about anymore.

All I know is, I answered a question Slats asked and you said something stupid.

[slats]

He was an upgrade on his own team last season...he'd be an upgrade in Miami and Arizona...maybe Seattle and the Bills

The bottom line is that not one single team decided that Tebow was worth bringing in as a starting QB.

No but you saying they dont agree with me because they didnt trade for him contains similar caveats. What if Denver didnt want to trade with them? What if they didnt have the pick Denver was looking for?

If Denver was willing to trade with the Jets, they'd have no problem trading with the other teams in the AFCe. Arizona and Seattle are in the NFC, so that would be an ideal move. But no, all of those teams sought other solutions, or just opted to go with what they had rather than make a move for Tebow.

What if those teams value picks or he doesnt fit their system etc.

I imagine that doesn't fit their system thing is a big part of it. He doesn't fit any system in the NFL. But that kinda falls under the category of not being seen by anyone in the league as a starting NFL QB. You can try to justify it in his defense, but when a 24 year old, former first round pick, playoff winning QB hits the trade market and no one is interested in making him their starter for less than a third round pick, something's obviously up.

[Villain The Foe]

So, let me get THIS right. You are using a game in which the Jets held the Colts to 16 pts and Peyton Manning to 225 yards passing IN THEIR DOME, while the Jets offense scored 17 and their QB had 189 yards passing and a rating of 62.4 as a game that their QUARTERBACK won?

How many of the other 11 games you mention are like this?

Was it or was it NOT a game winning drive? Stop hating, its a bad color on you.

This is why sometimes you just have to abruptly end a conversation when it gets like this. You made a statement, I answer it with accurate info and then you reply with that above???

To conclude, Mark Sanchez has 11 game winning drives whether you respect them or not, and Timothy Tebow isnt an NFL caliber QB.

[slats]

And by the way, what do you think the Jets could get for Sanchez at this point, ridiculous contract aside?

Not much.

I'm no huge fan of Mark Sanchez, I just haven't given up on him. That ridiculous contract is a sign that the Jets haven't, either. He's paid to be the starter for the next two years. IMO, he'll be the starter for at least this season.

T0mSilva thinks Sanchez will have success later in his career. I can see that. Sanchez donning the Raiders' silver & black in the Super Bowl like Plunkett and Gannon before him. It's easy to see. Mark has talent, he just hasn't put it together. I think his main issue is maturity, so getting older might help him. Tebow had 3x the experience in college that Sanchez had, but Sanchez still came out of school with better pro tools. The Jets have already invested draft picks, players, and a lot of money and time in Sanchez. They'd be foolish to pull that plug hastily. At least in my opinion. QBs take time to develop in this league, and when they come out as juniors they take more.

Sanchez improved last year in comp%, TD%, total yards and TDs, despite a downgraded OL and shaky WR corps. He's probably not a buy to another team right now, but for the Jets he's like an expensive slumping stock that shows some sign of a potential positive return. For the Jets, he's a hold. They have too much invested not to ride him out this year.

[Jetsouth]

Was it or was it NOT a game winning drive? Stop hating, its a bad color on you.

This is why sometimes you just have to abruptly end a conversation when it gets like this. You made a statement, I answer it with accurate info and then you reply with that above???

To conclude, Mark Sanchez has 11 game winning drives whether you respect them or not, and Timothy Tebow isnt an NFL caliber QB.

You should be stoked about Timothy Tebow being the backup.. it's like having Ahnold living with your guard dog for security..

Against Chicago, he earned his sixth game-winning drive in the fourth quarter or overtime in his first 11 starts, a Super Bowl-era record for a quarterback. (of course, anyone watching those games could see they abandoned designed runs and let him *run* the offense during those so called "Tebow times")

[Villain The Foe]

You should be stoked about Timothy Tebow being the backup.. it's like having Ahnold living with your guard dog for security..

Against Chicago, he earned his sixth game-winning drive in the fourth quarter or overtime in his first 11 starts, a Super Bowl-era record for a quarterback. (of course, anyone watching those games could see they abandoned designed runs and let him *run* the offense during those so called "Tebow times")

Im in favor of him being the back up. I've said that I've warmed up to the thought. Its not like I have something personal against Tim, I just dont acquiesce to overhypeness because its popular. Tim Tebow in certain situations is a beast, as a QB possibly taking on a large role.....terrible.

[T0mShane]

T0mSilva thinks Sanchez will have success later in his career.

LOVE it.

I don't know if Evan reads these boards, but that's a position I've held for awhile. Besides his immaturity, I think Sanchez has cognitive delay which can be overcome through extreme and prolonged repetition. I think the Jets were really careless about throwing him into the fire from Day One--it was like sticking a third grader into AP Calc and wondering why he's having a nervous breakdown. And to worsen the issue, they didn't give him a vet mentor his first year (unless you want to count a sulking Kellen Clemens as a "mentor"). Sanchez, unless he has an epiphany early this season, would really benefit from ending up as a backup in Green Bay or Denver for a year, just to sit and learn what good QBs from successful programs do to get themselves ready. Obviously, Cavanaugh isn't teaching him that.

And to chime in on Tebow, I think more teams would have bid on him if he was just a regular guy, but he's an iconic superhero that brings sh*t-tons of ancillary pressure to any organization. Elway didn't trade him because he didn't think Tebow could play, he traded him to avoid having another billboard hung up in Denver in the event that Peyton has a bad game. There are buses with church groups heading up to Cortland this weekend to watch Tebow practice. Stores in Cortland are selling green t-shirts with "Tebowmania" and "TebowTown Cortland" on them. It's a circus.

The Packers and Pats wanted him to be a change-of-pace QB behind their established superstar QBs. But any team that doesn't have that superstar at QB, like the Jets, has to deal with Tebow and his résumé standing on the sidelines. He took a dead Denver team and led them to the playoffs, he put them on prime time, he got blackouts lifted, he galvanized a country (raise your hand if you didn't go out of your way to watch him play last year), and he made Pat Bowlen ridiculous amounts of money. Alllllll of that will be a factor if Sanchez struggles or has a gimpy ankle. The urge to play him will be there for numerous reasons, despite the fact that he throws meatballs. IMO, that's 50 percent of what led teams to shy away from him, with the other fifty percent being the obvious deficits to his playing ability.

[Gastineau Lives]

Was it or was it NOT a game winning drive? Stop hating, its a bad color on you.

This is why sometimes you just have to abruptly end a conversation when it gets like this. You made a statement, I answer it with accurate info and then you reply with that above???

To conclude, Mark Sanchez has 11 game winning drives whether you respect them or not, and Timothy Tebow isnt an NFL caliber QB.

Okay, so you're using game winning drives as your criteria and yet you say Tim Tebow isn't a quality QB. Okay, you're officially hopeless.

[Jet-T's]

Just like to point out that the yards per completion statistic is used almost exclusively by liars and idiots,

and never by anyone with any credibility.

While others with little to no cred will believe that dink & dunk junk with 8 more completions per 100 throws

makes all the difference in the NFL QB world.

Where as an E-VP with a rookie completion % of 47.5% would trade away his Top 2 WR's from 2010.

Then watch his 1st Rnd best receiving RB get injured out for the season.

Then bring in a raw 2nd year QB with only 3 starts to start in game 6 of his second season,

cold off the bench and then whine about his accuracy (46.5%).

Apparently 'brain-dead' forgetting that he himself threw for just 7 TD's to 14 Ints.

Was that due to his own inaccuracy or could he just not read a defense,,, or both?

While the QB that he's whining about threw 20 TD's to just 9 Ints.

And also took his 4-14 team to a Playoff win in just his 15th NFL start.

Then Saint John El' Dim-way (the bald -faced liar) claims that Tim will be the starter going into camp.

But immediately goes out and over pays for an injury prone QB to play behind his crappy OL.

Did you notice that ole El' Dim-way's FIRST HIRE after Peyton was a Gator Veteran WR, A.Caldwell?

And did you notice that El' Dim-way also hired/drafted 2-3 more WR's since?

Apparently Peyton needs better receivers than Tim had to throw to.....

But just keep on with your biased hate filled tunnel vision when looking at Tebow, a

t this rate you'll soon be able to get a job as a media-moron or an idiot-commentator.....

PS

Now address this 1st 16 NFL starts stat: Sanchez 12 TD's to 20 Ints ---- Tebow 20 TD's to 9 Ints.

[Bleedin Green]

Now address this 1st 16 NFL starts stat: Sanchez 12 TD's to 20 Ints ---- Tebow 20 TD's to 9 Ints.

Sanchez started week 1 his rookie year, Tebow came nowhere close to doing so. Therefore, those numbers have absolute no point of comparison whatsoever. Just as Tebow's numbers have no relevance to the endless number of other rookie season's you've quoted from other QBs, as Tebow started his career on the bench.

Try as you might to ignore it, there is an endless amount of statistical proof that shows players tend to have greater statistical success in their first season as a starter when given an opportunity to sit and learn for an extended period of time than those who are forced into action from day one. It actually makes the fact that the rest of Tebow's stats are as awful as they are that much less defensible.

[Jet-T's]

Translation:

Excuses. Excuses excuses excuses. More excuses. Even more excuses. Lots more excuses. Excuses and excuses.

1000 more words of excuses.

Zero content of value.

Aw come on man, don't diss on Mark so bad, just because he choked last season while also losing to Tebow.

Come on man, even Big Ben with his #1 in the NFL defense didn't do any better against Tebow in the Playoffs.

Being a jerk while losing the confidence of both his teammates and his coaches wasn't all his fault either.

Plus he's going to fix that 'turnover machine' problem in his 4th NFL season this time for sure.....

He's not really making excuses and having to make major changes, those are just corrections for real problems... not excuses at all....

[Jet-T's]

John Elway couldn't wait to unload Tebow for a fourth round pick, and I really don't think it had anything to do with any jealousy over the comparisons of their rookie seasons.

So, to chickenchit to actually answer the question huh? Typical of your type.

So here, let me help:

HoF El' Dim-Way - 47.5% - 7 TD's to 14 Ints, 54.5 PER

no-talent Tebow - 46.5% - 20 TD's to 9 Ints, 77.7 PER

(notice that I didn't re-emphasize that Tim also had a better Yds/Comp)

And Tebow was already more popular in Denver than 'used-car salesman cred' El' Dim-Way is.

Plus watch what happens when Peyton goes down for good and they have chit for a new starter.

[Damaged89]

Aw come on man, don't diss on Mark so bad, just because he choked last season while also losing to Tebow.

Come on man, even Big Ben with his #1 in the NFL defense didn't do any better against Tebow in the Playoffs.

Being a jerk while losing the confidence of both his teammates and his coaches wasn't all his fault either.

Plus he's going to fix that 'turnover machine' problem in his 4th NFL season this time for sure.....

He's not really making excuses and having to make major changes, those are just corrections for real problems... not excuses at all....

Dude, isn't there a Tebow website somewhere you could fap at?

[Jet-T's]

I'm just going to stop you right there. This is the NFL. Those stats are not relevant. Ever.

Beyond that, the comparisons you try to make are just flat out laughable. The conclusions you are trying to forge are so inherently flawed, that there's nothing even to debate there, because it defies logic. Using your method of evaluation, you could make an argument for every player who was ever stepped foot in the NFL being destined for greatness just because someone before them turned out to be good after playing like crap at the start of their career. Unfortunately this just so happens to be ignoring the obvious elephant in the room that there's a much, much longer last of players who's crappy starts led to crappy careers.

Well, I'm not going to stop you at all, cause your own biased/twisted form of logic keeps me laughing all day....

Oh BTW, what do the NFL Teams base their drafts on, intuition, hair length and color? Just give me a little hint?

Liar, liar, pants on

I never claim that Tim WILL be All Pro, I just point out that he has a better start than many that did make All Pro.

While the idiots here are SCREAMING that Tim will NEVER be an NFL QB, (despite his 8-6 1-1 -- 9-7 W/L record for a 4-14 team.

But I see that you have failed to address that kind of sterling logic.....

And you see Tim's NFL start as a failure for a 4-14 team with no Vet WR's or their starting receiving RB.

Total Career Offense - 580 for 3,785 yds, 6.5 yds/play, 33 TD's to 15 T-O's with an 8-6 + 1-1 = 9-7 W/L

Genius~

[slats]

Now address this 1st 16 NFL starts stat: Sanchez 12 TD's to 20 Ints ---- Tebow 20 TD's to 9 Ints.

Tebow had 3x the college starting experience that Sanchez had in college, and then sat behind a starter for most of his rookie year, and yet he still can't complete 50% of his throws.

Their yards per attempt are essentially the same, so you want to drag out a yards/comp stat that no self-respecting analyst would ever use because it somehow props up Tebow's unheard of in the NFL 46.5% completion rate. A much better tie-breaker that truly shows what's happening when each of these QBs steps back to throw would be net yards per attempt, which takes into account # of sacks and yards lost. In this statistical measure, Sanchez is significantly less than satisfactory at 5.6 ny/a, but Tebow is downright atrocious at 4.9.

I don't really give a fvck how many meaningless statistical comparisons you post, nonsense measures you choose to use, or number of smileys you choose to incorporate - Tim Tebow has a very long way to go before he's an NFL quality QB.

I addressed your question, now discuss this*: Tebow's Broncos finished his little dream run with the same 1-4 record that they started the season without him including blowout losses to his new division rivals, the Bills and Pats. Looked to me like the league, and the AFCe in particular, caught onto him.

*try to discuss it without comparing Tebow to Peyton Manning or John Elway's rookie seasons, no one gives a sh*t. Keep your discussion contemporary. Another tip: adding lots of smileys doesn't make you seem like any less of an anus.

[Jet-T's]

Dude, isn't there a Tebow website somewhere you could fap at?

Bubba, isn't there an idiots Tebow hater website that you could go be the of?

[Jet-T's]

Tebow had 3x the college starting experience that Sanchez had in college, and then sat behind a starter for most of his rookie year, and yet he still can't complete 50% of his throws.

Their yards per attempt are essentially the same, so you want to drag out a yards/comp stat that no self-respecting analyst would ever use because it somehow props up Tebow's unheard of in the NFL 46.5% completion rate. A much better tie-breaker that truly shows what's happening when each of these QBs steps back to throw would be net yards per attempt, which takes into account # of sacks and yards lost. In this statistical measure, Sanchez is significantly less than satisfactory at 5.6 ny/a, but Tebow is downright atrocious at 4.9.

I don't really give a fvck how many meaningless statistical comparisons you post, nonsense measures you choose to use, or number of smileys you choose to incorporate - Tim Tebow has a very long way to go before he's an NFL quality QB.

I addressed your question, now discuss this*: Tebow's Broncos finished his little dream run with the same 1-4 record that they started the season without him including blowout losses to his new division rivals, the Bills and Pats. Looked to me like the league, and the AFCe in particular, caught onto him.

*try to discuss it without comparing Tebow to Peyton Manning or John Elway's rookie seasons, no one gives a sh*t. Keep your discussion contemporary. Another tip: adding lots of smileys doesn't make you seem like any less of an anus.

Sorry, but ONLY NFL stats can be used on this 'fair minded' board,

or in any discussion where Tebow's name comes up.

ARE YOU NEW?

12 TD's to 20 Ints VS 20 TD's to 9 Ints,,,,,, just deal with it.

El' Dim-Way's 47.5% with 7 TD's to 14 Ints is also unheard of, around here anyway....

Are you still dating Mark, or do you just wish you were?

Caught on to him, or to the moronic John Fox - Twit McCoy offense?

I noticed that they immediately put Peyton in charge of his own offense.

And you've yet to address the trade of Pro Bowl WR Lloyd and #2 WR Gaffney before starting Tebow.

Contemporary? Tebow 33 TD's to 15 TO's on his first NFL 580 plays.

Compare that to any QB currently in the NFL.

Or just keep on duckin' and dodgin' while I LMAO at your own feeble attempts to look NFL smart....

[Bleedin Green]

Well, I'm not going to stop you at all, cause your own biased/twisted form of logic keeps me laughing all day....

Oh BTW, what do the NFL Teams base their drafts on, intuition, hair length and color? Just give me a little hint?

Liar, liar, pants on

I never claim that Tim WILL be All Pro, I just point out that he has a better start than many that did make All Pro.

While the idiots here are SCREAMING that Tim will NEVER be an NFL QB, (despite his 8-6 1-1 -- 9-7 W/L record for a 4-14 team.

But I see that you have failed to address that kind of sterling logic.....

And you see Tim's NFL start as a failure for a 4-14 team with no Vet WR's or their starting receiving RB.

Total Career Offense - 580 for 3,785 yds, 6.5 yds/play, 33 TD's to 15 T-O's with an 8-6 + 1-1 = 9-7 W/L

Genius~

And once again, a post full of nothing but pure nonsense. For starters, I can assure you high school stats don't have a damn thing to do with where a player is drafted. Secondly, where a player is drafted also has nothing to do with whether or not their play on the field is any good. There are tons of #1 overall picks who have turned out to be god awful and even more undrafted rookies who have gone on to hall of fame careers. Sure, Tebow's college performance was relevant when the draft rolled around, but that is years in the past and the only thing that matters now is Tebow's performance in the NFL.

This isn't even to mention the fact that there are plenty of players that have had amazing college stats who never even stepped foot into the NFL because NFL scouts knew their skillset wouldn't transition over and in the case of Tebow, that is the exact reason the Broncos were torn apart by everyone out there for drafting Tebow way too high, no less than 2 rounds higher than any other team in the league reportedly had him graded at the time. The fact that two years later no team in the league was willing to give up more than a 4th only further confirms that.

[Bleedin Green]

Tebow had 3x the college starting experience that Sanchez had in college, and then sat behind a starter for most of his rookie year, and yet he still can't complete 50% of his throws.

Their yards per attempt are essentially the same, so you want to drag out a yards/comp stat that no self-respecting analyst would ever use because it somehow props up Tebow's unheard of in the NFL 46.5% completion rate. A much better tie-breaker that truly shows what's happening when each of these QBs steps back to throw would be net yards per attempt, which takes into account # of sacks and yards lost. In this statistical measure, Sanchez is significantly less than satisfactory at 5.6 ny/a, but Tebow is downright atrocious at 4.9.

I don't really give a fvck how many meaningless statistical comparisons you post, nonsense measures you choose to use, or number of smileys you choose to incorporate - Tim Tebow has a very long way to go before he's an NFL quality QB.

I addressed your question, now discuss this*: Tebow's Broncos finished his little dream run with the same 1-4 record that they started the season without him including blowout losses to his new division rivals, the Bills and Pats. Looked to me like the league, and the AFCe in particular, caught onto him.

*try to discuss it without comparing Tebow to Peyton Manning or John Elway's rookie seasons, no one gives a sh*t. Keep your discussion contemporary. Another tip: adding lots of smileys doesn't make you seem like any less of an anus.

It's posts like this which remind me why as long as we're not talking about Revis' contract, me and you agree on so damn much regarding the Jets. Extremely well said.

[Bleedin Green]

Sorry, but ONLY NFL stats can be used on this 'fair minded' board,

or in any discussion where Tebow's name comes up.

ARE YOU NEW?

12 TD's to 20 Ints VS 20 TD's to 9 Ints,,,,,, just deal with it.

Except you're comparing Sanchez's rookie year, excluding playoffs, to Tebow's second year, including playoffs. Those numbers could not possibly be less comparable.

El' Dim-Way's 47.5% with 7 TD's to 14 Ints is also unheard of, around here anyway....

Again, you're talking about Elway's rookie year. Not to mention, the fact that Elway played like sh*t his rookie year nearly 30 years ago has absolutely no relevance to this conversation whatsoever.

Are you still dating Mark, or do you just wish you were?

Caught on to him, or to the moronic John Fox - Twit McCoy offense?

I noticed that they immediately put Peyton in charge of his own offense.

And you've yet to address the trade of Pro Bowl WR Lloyd and #2 WR Gaffney before starting Tebow.

Contemporary? Tebow 33 TD's to 15 TO's on his first NFL 580 plays.

Compare that to any QB currently in the NFL.

Or just keep on duckin' and dodgin' while I LMAO at your own feeble attempts to look NFL smart....

I really have no idea what the rest of this is even supposed to mean, because none of it makes any sense. It seems to be a combination of more excuses and further feeble attempts to compare stats that have absolutely no basis for comparison whatsoever. Again, there is endless amount of proof out there to show that a player who spends most of his rookie year on the bench should have significantly better stats to start his career than one who starts from day one of his rookie year. In this regard, Tebow actually has done significantly worse than what is to be expected out of a player who had as much time to sit and learn as he did.

[Jet-T's]

Sanchez started week 1 his rookie year, Tebow came nowhere close to doing so. Therefore, those numbers have absolute no point of comparison whatsoever. Just as Tebow's numbers have no relevance to the endless number of other rookie season's you've quoted from other QBs, as Tebow started his career on the bench.

Try as you might to ignore it, there is an endless amount of statistical proof that shows players tend to have greater statistical success in their first season as a starter when given an opportunity to sit and learn for an extended period of time than those who are forced into action from day one. It actually makes the fact that the rest of Tebow's stats are as awful as they are that much less defensible.

Tebow didn't start his rookie year why?

Because the idiots in Denver wanted 7th year NFL Vet, 2nd year Bronco Orton to start.

How'd that work out of those genius's making the decisions?

2010 Orton went 3-10 (.231)

So they started Tebow cold off the bench in game 14-16 and he went 1-2 (.333)

LOCK-OUT OFF SEASON

Then they held the 'FAIR' QB Competion in the 2011 Preseaons to choose their starting QB.

4th year Brady Quinn 69 PER

8th year Kyle Orton 102 PER

2nd year Tim Tebow 104 PER plus a 5.4 ypc rushing.

So the donkey brain trust knew that Orton 'GIVES US THE BEST CHANCE TO WIN' so he was the starter.

After they go 1-4 then then again insert cold off the bench Tebow.

He then goes 7-4 taking them to their first Playoff since 2005, and beats #1 NFL defense Pittsburgh.

Are you now claiming that getting all of the 1st team practice through camp, then preseason, then for most of the regular season is better than practice with the scrubs and backups before getting thrown in cold off the bench for a LOSER team? Genius!

Tebow was NOT sitting and learning form coaches and Vet QB's that were in danger of losing their jobs.

Your idiot-logic is absolutely HYSTERICAL!!!! ---

[Bleedin Green]

Tebow didn't start his rookie year why?

Because the idiots in Denver wanted 7th year NFL Vet, 2nd year Bronco Orton to start.

How'd that work out of those genius's making the decisions?

2010 Orton went 3-10 (.231)

So they started Tebow cold off the bench in game 14-16 and he went 1-2 (.333)

LOCK-OUT OFF SEASON

Then they held the 'FAIR' QB Competion in the 2011 Preseaons to choose their starting QB.

4th year Brady Quinn 69 PER

8th year Kyle Orton 102 PER

2nd year Tim Tebow 104 PER plus a 5.4 ypc rushing.

So the donkey brain trust knew that Orton 'GIVES US THE BEST CHANCE TO WIN' so he was the starter.

After they go 1-4 then then again insert cold off the bench Tebow.

He then goes 7-4 taking them to their first Playoff since 2005, and beats #1 NFL defense Pittsburgh.

Are you now claiming that getting all of the 1st team practice through camp, then preseason, then for most of the regular season is better than practice with the scrubs and backups before getting thrown in cold off the bench for a LOSER team? Genius!

Tebow was NOT sitting and learning form coaches and Vet QB's that were in danger of losing their jobs.

Your idiot-logic is absolutely HYSTERICAL!!!! ---

Wow, you're clueless. What difference does it make why he wasn't the day one starter? I'll give you a hint, it doesn't make any difference at all, the only point of relevance is that he wasn't. Again, there is endless amounts of statistical evidence that proves beyond any doubt that QBs who sit on the bench have better stats in their first year as starters than those who start from the beginning of their rookie year. The real problem here is you are the one sitting here trying to compare Tebow's performance as a second year pro to those of other player's rookie years, and there is no legitimate means of statistical comparison there whatsoever. Keep repeating it over and over all you like, but it won't change that it is completely meaningless.

All you are doing is coming up with an endless list of completely nonsensical excuses, but in the end, you are trying to compare numbers that have absolutely no relevance to each other whatsoever. The data sets you are trying to compare have absolutely no commonalities between them whatsoever, and so it completely invalidates literally every single point you're trying to make from those comparisons.

[THE ILK]

I miss visa.

[slats]

Sorry, but ONLY NFL stats can be used on this 'fair minded' board,

or in any discussion where Tebow's name comes up.

ARE YOU NEW?

12 TD's to 20 Ints VS 20 TD's to 9 Ints,,,,,, just deal with it.

El' Dim-Way's 47.5% with 7 TD's to 14 Ints is also unheard of, around here anyway....

Are you still dating Mark, or do you just wish you were?

Caught on to him, or to the moronic John Fox - Twit McCoy offense?

I noticed that they immediately put Peyton in charge of his own offense.

And you've yet to address the trade of Pro Bowl WR Lloyd and #2 WR Gaffney before starting Tebow.

Contemporary? Tebow 33 TD's to 15 TO's on his first NFL 580 plays.

Compare that to any QB currently in the NFL.

Or just keep on duckin' and dodgin' while I LMAO at your own feeble attempts to look NFL smart....

You're that rare breed that's both boring and obnoxious.

It's you who's evading the question. You love to cite how Tebow took over a 1-4 team and brought them to the playoffs, but never discuss how he finished 1-4 with them - including blowout losses to his new division rivals, the Pats and the Bills.

Tebow's sandlot style gets him sacked a ridiculous amount of time, resulting in his league worst ny/a to go with his league worst comp%. The Jets did poorly with too many 3 & outs last year, but Tebow did even worse. I'm not in love with Sanchez by any stretch, I just recognize that Tebow does not represent an upgrade. Timmy has a very long way to go before he can run an NFL offense. Longer than Mark Sanchez, which is saying something.

[Damaged89]

Bubba, isn't there an idiots Tebow hater website that you could go be the of?

[Gastineau Lives]

Tebow had 3x the college starting experience that Sanchez had in college, and then sat behind a starter for most of his rookie year, and yet he still can't complete 50% of his throws.

Their yards per attempt are essentially the same, so you want to drag out a yards/comp stat that no self-respecting analyst would ever use because it somehow props up Tebow's unheard of in the NFL 46.5% completion rate. A much better tie-breaker that truly shows what's happening when each of these QBs steps back to throw would be net yards per attempt, which takes into account # of sacks and yards lost. In this statistical measure, Sanchez is significantly less than satisfactory at 5.6 ny/a, but Tebow is downright atrocious at 4.9.

I don't really give a fvck how many meaningless statistical comparisons you post, nonsense measures you choose to use, or number of smileys you choose to incorporate - Tim Tebow has a very long way to go before he's an NFL quality QB.

I addressed your question, now discuss this*: Tebow's Broncos finished his little dream run with the same 1-4 record that they started the season without him including blowout losses to his new division rivals, the Bills and Pats. Looked to me like the league, and the AFCe in particular, caught onto him.

*try to discuss it without comparing Tebow to Peyton Manning or John Elway's rookie seasons, no one gives a sh*t. Keep your discussion contemporary. Another tip: adding lots of smileys doesn't make you seem like any less of an anus.

Caleb Hanie was "clearly" the No. 2 QB as the Broncos kicked off training camp Thursday.

It's worth noting because Adam Weber closed out minicamp ahead of Hanie in the beat writers' eyes. With Brock Osweiler locked into the developmental role, Hanie and Weber are battling for one roster spot.

I would say something but you'll spin this any way you want.

[Villain The Foe]

Okay, so you're using game winning drives as your criteria and yet you say Tim Tebow isn't a quality QB. Okay, you're officially hopeless.

No brother, you made a statement and im just showing that your statement wasnt necessarily correct. Mark Sanchez is a better QB than you give him credit for. Its not about hopelessness, its about stating the facts here.

Im not saying that Sanchez is the best QB nor am I saying that Tebow is the worst. They both have qualities that I believe can benefit the New York Jets. I just see that you're really down on Sanchez...much of which I simply dont agree with. I know come football season we're going to get into the spirit of Jets football and this is just an off season topic, but Mark Sanchez isnt as bad as you betray him to be. Even in other threads I read your comments. I havent quoted them because I didnt this topic to be all over the place. But you're making it seem like we got Ryan Leaf on our team. Sanchez has won football games, and he's certainly lost football games. 3 years into it, im content with what this guy has done.

[Gastineau Lives]

No brother, you made a statement and im just showing that your statement wasnt necessarily correct. Mark Sanchez is a better QB than you give him credit for. Its not about hopelessness, its about stating the facts here.

Im not saying that Sanchez is the best QB nor am I saying that Tebow is the worst. They both have qualities that I believe can benefit the New York Jets. I just see that you're really down on Sanchez...much of which I simply dont agree with. I know come football season we're going to get into the spirit of Jets football and this is just an off season topic, but Mark Sanchez isnt as bad as you betray him to be. Even in other threads I read your comments. I havent quoted them because I didnt this topic to be all over the place. But you're making it seem like we got Ryan Leaf on our team. Sanchez has won football games, and he's certainly lost football games. 3 years into it, im content with what this guy has done.

Fair enough. In the end we're on the same side. At the very least it will be interesting. And you can't really ask for more as a fan.

[SayNoToDMC]

Would people stop feeding Jet-T? His 10 essay long posts a page with the same inconsequential statistics make it take so much harder for me to navigate the real stuff people are saying

[Gastineau Lives]

You're that rare breed that's both boring and obnoxious.

It's you who's evading the question. You love to cite how Tebow took over a 1-4 team and brought them to the playoffs, but never discuss how he finished 1-4 with them - including blowout losses to his new division rivals, the Pats and the Bills.

Tebow's sandlot style gets him sacked a ridiculous amount of time, resulting in his league worst ny/a to go with his league worst comp%. The Jets did poorly with too many 3 & outs last year, but Tebow did even worse. I'm not in love with Sanchez by any stretch, I just recognize that Tebow does not represent an upgrade. Timmy has a very long way to go before he can run an NFL offense. Longer than Mark Sanchez, which is saying something.

o be fair though, Sanchez was in his third season in one system with more talent around him. You don't disagree with that, do you?

You also somehow have decided to leave Sanchez' 26 turnovers out of the equation but quote NET YARDS PER ATTEMPT like it's the bible.

I hate this thread. It turns me into a Tebow "fan" and I'm sure you and Bleedin' aren't the biggest Sanchez supporters.

[Gastineau Lives]

Did I mention how much I hate this thread? It's like being chained to a merry go round.