Classic TV vs Reality TV mafia - basic game

[Integrity28]

@Lily -

If there is an SK, 2 town and 2 scum left, would that be a scum win?

[Lily]

The mafia's win condition is not known to the town. Sorry.

[Leelou]

@Lily -

If there is an SK, 2 town and 2 scum left, would that be a scum win?

Are you thinking 2 scum left?

[Integrity28]

The mafia's win condition is not known to the town. Sorry.

Whu?

Are you thinking 2 scum left?

Not sure. You have any thoughts? I'm clearly alive because I'm being ridden to end game, I'll post my thoughts but I'm not voting until it gets talked out.

IF there are 2 scum left, then one vote on a townie and 2 quick votes by scum seals the win for them.

[Leelou]

I'm suspicious of Ishy and Cindy mostly.

[Integrity28]

I'm suspicious of Ishy and Cindy mostly.

You aren't saying anything... Why?

The three of you have played super clean games. I could convince myself to vote any of the 3 of you. Hell, I'd vote 80 on suspicion of being SK too.

Usually at this point, I go after the cleanest looking player. Cindy can't be tied to much of anything but a big case vs. JIF and staying on him D1 while we all voted Hatter, and she's hovered around a couple other townie lynches without getting her hands dirty.

You've been fence-sitting since D1, and on a couple occasions dropped subtle nudges on townie vote trains. JIF's case on you is a huge strike against you, as he only cased one other person and that was Verbal. When JIF listed his top 3's, he included Verbal, Ishy and SMC. Yet he cased you after saying that. I doubt he would list 2 of his scummates in his top 3, instead I think after he got heat he came up with the case on you to distance, knjowing he'd already shown his ass.

Ishy has been echoing me, specifically on D1 going after JIF. However, he's at least been logical and made cases. He did push the "dukes of hazard doesn't fit" thing that I bit on yesterday.

All 3 playing very clean.

[Integrity28]

Since AVM is dead, I think we can assume that either:

a.) 80 is the SK and shot AVM because a cop can still detect 3rd party, and scum hit the doc

b.) 80 is the SK and shot the DOC, while scum shot AVM

c.) 80 is VIG, holstered or hit the doc, and scum shot AVM because they assumed AVM would be viewed useless against a GF and unprotected (this might be an unintentional hint that they do indeed have a godfather, in which case I'd guess only 1 scum remaining)

d.) 80 is VIG or SK, holstered or hit the doc, and scum shot AVM because there are 2 of them left, and they trusted that 80 would holster so there wouldn't be 2 kills last night to give them the win, therefore they needed to protect themselves against detection

[Leelou]

I do not see a dead doc in this list:

Players:

1. Basel Gill, The Dukes of Hazzard, vanilla townie, cancelled day 3

2. Leelou

3. Verbal, American Idol, mafia goon, cancelled night 1

4. Madhatter, Happy Days, vanilla town, cancelled day 1

5. Cindy

6. Ishy

7. Crusher, The Brady Bunch, vanilla townie, cancelled night 2

8. Integrity28

9. Sakaea, Gilligan's Island, vanilla town, cancelled night 1

10. SMC, The Dick Van Dyke Show, vanilla town, cancelled night 2

11. 80

12. JiF, The Biggest Loser, mafia roleblocker, cancelled day 2

13. AVM, The Andy Griffith Show, town cop, cancelled night 3

How do any of your scenarios of hitting the doc make sense?

[Ishy]

I don't think Cindy is scum for reasons I already listed.

Therefore, at this point the only clear Townies for me are her and myself. Leaving Ape, 80, and Leelou.

For no other reason than gut, I believe 80 to be the vig, but if he plans on firing blindly he's as big a threat as scum other than being an assett in the numbers game.

So Ape and Leelou. Time to reread and decide.

[Integrity28]

I28 (1) – Basel

Sakaea (1) – Leelou

Hatter (5) – SMC, I28, Crusher, 80, Ishy

JiF (2) – Hatter, Cindy

Leelou (2) – JiF, AVM

Basel (1) - Verbal

Not voting – Sakaea

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline Tuesday 5PM MST/7PM EST

Ishy followed me to JIF, then followed me to Hatter when the time was right. I almost wonder if Verbal posted that gay case on Basel, just to avoid going back-to-back with Verbal on the Hatter train, and then he was like **** it and voted Hatter anyway.

I thought this exchange was pretty interesting.

Blind lynch and we hit a role less townie? Day 1 winner. I do love me a blind lynch.

I guess next time we just stick with blind lynching Verb?

Ishy, who was listed in JIF's top 3 along with Verbal and SMC, makes this comment after the blind lynch on Hatter? It almost insinuates he knew Verb was scum.

Then JIF repped it, Verbal neg repped it and Cindy repped it... but she reps everything.

[cindy]

No doc. One scum left, definitely a GF so I'm useless.

No scenario in which 80 or I are aren't what we say we are, so we're the only vetted townies left.

I was concerned scum might have had something along the lines of "You are American Idol, reality tv replacement for great classic tv such as _____________"

Something to balance out the ability to say which classic tv show we are as town. Of course, there's always the chance they said a random show but I find that unlikely. If you screw up and say a show of a townie, guaranteed death.

So here's where I'm at:

Basel as scum could have claimed doc (I was trying to get him to, at least). Even when I eventually died he just says he guessed wrong. Most likely glides to end game. I'd like to get others views on this, but honestly the scum play was to claim doc (I secretly wondered if one of you lied and was the doc, hoping he would claim it). Feel pretty good about Basel.

Leelou's not realizing there was a roleblocker earlier sort of makes me feel okay about her, but not immensely. Something you can easily fake.

Ishy I have no read on whatsoever. Only reason I cleared him was based off his reveal, and that doesn't mean jack now obviously.

Cindy -- I see it possible JiF and Verb told her to keep doing her thing, ask others for explanation, etc. Lost townie is a good scum play for someone in their second game.

The ape I just have this sinking feeling about. I really want to go back and read the Verbal/JiF/me vs ape at different points bit. Did the ape actually bite at two of the 3 scum day one? Possible. Just as possible he'd go at both of them early to distance. JiF and the Ape are high targets every game, and Verbal gets speed lynched 1 out of 3 games. Glad I haven't investigated him yet, I know that for sure.

I could see the last scum being anyone between those last 3, personally. The interaction between the ape and verb/jif is something I've got to look at closer, and it's not happening tonight I'm sorry to say. If I had to take a guess, I'd say the ape based solely off his what I know of his game play as scum. The one thing that REALLY makes me hesitant was the delay to finish JiF when I revealed.

His delay and explanation of waiting to see if Ishy was slow playing a cop reveal seems extremely genuine. If he's scum...great play, as I know it drew me off of him completely.

What's everyone's thoughts on the ape? And Ishy/Cindy for that matter.

or maybe the person he was glad he hadn't investigated yet... who he suspected most... who would have known there was no GF and no way he was making it through another day with AVM alive... and who has led lynch after lynch against townies ... and who dropped his only real drive on scum when he had him... you had jif and you just let him go?... who's supposed to be the best scum catcher alive except for some reason has been wrong every time this game... killed him.

[cindy]

and **** yes I rep everything.

[Integrity28]

I do not see a dead doc in this list:

How do any of your scenarios of hitting the doc make sense?

I thought it was implied (since the doc isn't dead) that my assumption is the doc was self-protecting.

[Leelou]

I thought it was implied (since the doc isn't dead) that my assumption is the doc was self-protecting.

That would not have been very wise of the doc, always protect the cop to get at least another viewing. Especially this late in the game.

[Integrity28]

or maybe the person he was glad he hadn't investigated yet... who he suspected most... who would have known there was no GF and no way he was making it through another day with AVM alive... and who has led lynch after lynch against townies ... and who dropped his only real drive on scum when he had him... you had jif and you just let him go?... who's supposed to be the best scum catcher alive except for some reason has been wrong every time this game... killed him.

Did your inexperience just rear it's ugly head?

So... You shot AVM so you could bump AVM's budding suspicion of me and frame me. Got it. This was the one scenario I left OFF my list hoping it might set up a response like this from whoever made the play.

[Ishy]

That would not have been very wise of the doc, always protect the cop to get at least another viewing. Especially this late in the game.

This. There isn't a doc in the game.

And if there is, they're horrible at playing.

[Integrity28]

That would not have been very wise of the doc, always protect the cop to get at least another viewing. Especially this late in the game.

Debatable.

[Ishy]

Did your inexperience just rear it's ugly head?

So... You shot AVM so you could bump AVM's budding suspicion of me and frame me. Got it. This was the one scenario I left OFF my list hoping it might set up a response like this from whoever made the play.

Or another scenario:

She hit the nail on the head.

[Integrity28]

This. There isn't a doc in the game.

And if there is, they're horrible at playing.

That would not have been very wise of the doc, always protect the cop to get at least another viewing. Especially this late in the game.

These posts reek of role fishing or bluffs. Good job.

[Integrity28]

Or another scenario:

She hit the nail on the head.

So now you are going to pretend like you've never played with me before?

Cindy has made almost NO accusations all game. Now, she suddenly pops up with an accusation connecting me to AVM's death and having a specific post to quote? C'mon man!!!

Listen, it's more likely she's being a rookie scum hunter jumping to a bad conclusion than it is that you are genuinely supporting her. First time this game you haven't been able to echo one of my cases.

[Integrity28]

Seriously, "who has led lynch after lynch against townies".

JIF probably ****ing typed that sh*t for her.

[Leelou]

Debatable.

I don't really see how that is debatable. Clearly close to end game and doc self protects? Not smart. And I'm not fishing or bluffing.

Plus, your scenario #1 does not seem likely as 80 was viewed the previous night and came back as not scum.

[cindy]

Did your inexperience just rear it's ugly head?

So... You shot AVM so you could bump AVM's budding suspicion of me and frame me. Got it. This was the one scenario I left OFF my list hoping it might set up a response like this from whoever made the play.

if I could have killed someone it would have been you. you told me I die next. I figured I wouldnt live through the night.

go ahead and lynch me like you've done everyone else.

[Ishy]

Followed your cases? I voted JiF day one, before anyone else did for that matter. Granted, I used your back and forth with SMC to build my case, but I did fine on my own thanks very much.

I voted him Day two after AVM gave us the info, same as you. Again, without your help.

Voted Basel yesterday after his role reveal was suspect. Yet again, not parroting you, if memory serves, I said he reveal wasn't credible, then you quoted it, saying "This."

Follow you? Hardly.

[cindy]

So now you are going to pretend like you've never played with me before?

Cindy has made almost NO accusations all game. Now, she suddenly pops up with an accusation connecting me to AVM's death and having a specific post to quote? C'mon man!!!

Listen, it's more likely she's being a rookie scum hunter jumping to a bad conclusion than it is that you are genuinely supporting her. First time this game you haven't been able to echo one of my cases.

you killed Kenny, you bastard.

who the **** else would have done that last night?

who would have been worried?

he was coming after you next. he ****ing well said so.

[cindy]

These posts reek of role fishing or bluffs. Good job.

and is there anyone in this game you haven't accused of being scum?

is that how you're so good at catching them?

you just accuse everyone?

is that what everyone who knows you was trying to explain about your meta?

[Ishy]

and is there anyone in this game you haven't accused of being scum?

is that how you're so good at catching them?

you just accuse everyone?

is that what everyone who knows you was trying to explain about your meta?

She shoots, she scores!!

[cindy]

[Integrity28]

I don't really see how that is debatable. Clearly close to end game and doc self protects? Not smart. And I'm not fishing or bluffing.

Plus, your scenario #1 does not seem likely as 80 was viewed the previous night and came back as not scum.

We don't have to get into it about the strategy of doc play. It's a distraction. That is a post-game discussion. Hell, there may not even be one.

Your second point has me leaning heavy town on you as of now. Thank you. You've either played brilliantly as scum, or you are town, either way you've earned my trust.

80 is either a SK, or he is town. So, it comes down to Ishy and Cindy.

Cindy looks like she was framing me, doesn't even appear to be using her own words. Ishy is trying to push it over the top.

If I had to pick one as scum, it'd be Ishy. He's taken what the game has given him (my bad cases, now Cindy's bad case, Dukes of Hazard) and used it to direct the popular opinion from a low volume.

[Integrity28]

if I could have killed someone it would have been you. you told me I die next. I figured I wouldnt live through the night.

go ahead and lynch me like you've done everyone else.

Again, this reads like JIF is writing it.

The logic is so bad in your first statement I can't even respond to it.

I don't need to toil over this any longer. The minute she started channeling JIF, it made it easy.

Vote Cindy

[cindy]

yeah, cause i want to take the abuse you call game play tonight.

you know how much ativan i have to take to deal with you?

end it now. i hate this ****ing game.

vote ape

[Lily]

Cindy (1) – I28

I28 (1) - Cindy

Not voting – Leelou, Ishy, 80

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Deadline Monday 5 PM MST/ 7PM EST.

[Integrity28]

Also, in case it isn't obvious. I am the Doc.

I self-protected the past 2 nights. Hedging my bets that an unrevealed Doc, makes the Cop safe, because scum has to assume Cop is protected and Doc vulnerable. Based upon the accepted conservative play styles of most people, this is how scum would have played it. Take shots into the pool for the Doc, because he'll be protecting the Cop.

It's still possible that I was targeted and protected, and 80 is 3rd party and shot AVM. If AVM dies, good for 80, if AVM lives then 80 can say he holstered as promised. It is a no-lose situation for 80 to take a shot at AVM last night. A no-brainer, if 2 people died last night, both townies, then it's 4 players right now. 80 wouldn't even have to explain what he did. He'd win with whoever came out on the wrong side of today's lynch.

Risky, sure. Play informed by logic, yes.

[Integrity28]

yeah, cause i want to take the abuse you call game play tonight.

you know how much ativan i have to take to deal with you?

end it now. i hate this ****ing game.

vote ape

The plea for emotional sympathy... FALSE EMO!!! I've been so easy on you it's ridiculous. Christine just chimed in to call bullsh*t on you feeling overhwelmed with Ape abuse.

[cindy]

Also, in case it isn't obvious. I am the Doc.

I self-protected the past 2 nights. Hedging my bets that an unrevealed Doc, makes the Cop safe, because scum has to assume Cop is protected and Doc vulnerable. Based upon the accepted conservative play styles of most people, this is how scum would have played it. Take shots into the pool for the Doc, because he'll be protecting the Cop.

It's still possible that I was targeted and protected, and 80 is 3rd party and shot AVM. If AVM dies, good for 80, if AVM lives then 80 can say he holstered as promised. It is a no-lose situation for 80 to take a shot at AVM.

Risky, sure. Play informed by logic, yes.

excuse me?

you're the doc... and you let the cop die?

that's what you're selling now?

wouldn't the doc think it was worth risking his sorry ass to save the cop?

excuse me, i'm a rookie scum hunter, i know i'm too ****ing stupid for you to respond to, but if that's true it is ****ed up.