Rex Ryan's pros outweigh his cons.

[Jetsfan80]

Right now, Rex is a candidate. That's it.

 

Fine by me.

[whodeawhodat]

@T0m, the only thing I can agree with is Rex is a candidate for next years HC of the NYJ.  I think that is a given with anyone working under a new GM.  I dont think many coaches in the NFL DONT think that they are coaching for their jobs.  Just look at a new HC picture the first day they were hired and then 3 years into the job.  They are there for their team to perform every year(unless you are in a NY Knicks situation with Mike Dantoni).  The season they dont perform, they are again coaching for their job.  The whole 20 penalties thing, that was one game, a total reach by you to even bring it up.

 

As far as Rex the HC.  I am definately a supporter of him.  He is in the early stages of his HC career and I think he is still improving and not hit his ceiling.  His tough talk and "bully" behavior has turned some fans off.  I get that but this is NFL football we are talking about here not tiddley winks.  If you think that talk isnt prevalent in the locker room you are absolutely naieve.  Football players get off on that isht.  Could you imagine any football player saying, he is a good HC but he is too violent.

 

Look around the NFL and see what coaches started as a first year HC and just killed it.  The list is short and of the HCs that are on that list you have to look at their QBs, the single most important position on the football field. Look at little bill in NE.  He gets praised for being a great HC and GM.  The GM that fell in isht in the 6th round of the draft.

 

In order for Rex to keep his job, and I hope he does, he will have to prove to Idzik that he has this team headed in the right direction.  I am glad that Idzik has the opportunity to work with him for a year before he has to make this decision.  It is one of the biggest if not THE biggest decisions of his career here with the Jets as GM.

[whodeawhodat]

oh, and I meant to mention little bills record in his first years as HC of the browns...

[kelticwizard]

Right now, Rex is a candidate. That's it.

 

I doubt Idzik can fire Rex without selling it to Woody first.

[Sperm Edwards]

That is ok.  I do not believe the folks I mentioned are overrated.  There is a bunch of others out there that I could have added that I, myself, thought were poor choices.  However, I really love it when people resort to using If this and If that when trying to argue or debate.  I have news for you - If, did not happen.  It is not fact and if Joe Namath had not injured his knees none of us would still be waiting for a second SB 

 

A couple facts are there:  1).  Rex took a team built by someone else and won 11 games with it.  That sounds very familiar as I point out in my last statement.  2).  Rex and his partner in crime ruined a good core of players.  3).  Rex has put what looks to be a pretty potent front 7 but we will have to see what happens the remainder of the season.  4).  Rex seems to have made a good choice with Marty - again, we will have to see.

 

Using your logic I can say that Rex is the one who is way overrated.  I guess Ozzie Newsome let Ryan make draft picks.  No wait, Marvin Lewis or Mike Nolan had nothing to do with building the Ravens D!

What you claim as fact is not. Other than the obvious point that he was the coach & not the GM.

 

The notion that the 2009 team was ready-made for the playoffs is one of the biggest lies that keeps growing and growing and growing. Also huge parts of Rex's "core" like Pouha & DeVito were hardly ruined.  Or did Rex ruin Brett Favre perhaps? Maybe he ruined Faneca so he became the worst pass-blocking LG in the NFL, and then was out of the league a year later while sucking up big cap room the team could have used elsewhere.  Or was it that he ruined Laveranues Coles and Chansi Stuckey? I saw that pre-Rex defense without Kerry Jenkins and it was ugly.  Rex lost Jenkins and they were still the best defense in football with a fan-punchline now becoming a staple at the position.  Maybe it was Kellen Clemens who he ruined.  Oh wait -- I know the one I'm missing: he ruined Vernon Gholston.

[Sperm Edwards]

Pure speculation except the part about Fisher which I missed crossing off my list.  Also, it is obvious by the way I referred to Holmgren I was being sarcastic.  By that it was meant that even a failure like Holmgren was a better choice than Ryan.  Then again, if you think Rextard is a good HC your judgment is certainly questionable. 

 

It is not speculation that Tony Dungy is massively overrated.

 

But then, you called him Rextard, so how can anyone argue with that cleverness?

 

We are better off with Rex than some, and not as good as we'd be with some others (including those employed by other teams).  I would rather have Ryan than Dungy (who also is not interested in coaching again, though he almost took a GM job with Seattle on the condition that the HC must have one certain characteristic.  He ended up turning down that job anyway).  

 

If Rex flops this season, due to bad coaching rather than having rebuilding-season personnel & a rookie QB turning it over dozens of times (as rookies do), I will have no problem with him being replaced.

[T0mShane]

What you claim as fact is not. Other than the obvious point that he was the coach & not the GM.

The notion that the 2009 team was ready-made for the playoffs is one of the biggest lies that keeps growing and growing and growing. Also huge parts of Rex's "core" like Pouha & DeVito were hardly ruined. Or did Rex ruin Brett Favre perhaps? Maybe he ruined Faneca so he became the worst pass-blocking LG in the NFL, and then was out of the league a year later while sucking up big cap room the team could have used elsewhere. Or was it that he ruined Laveranues Coles and Chansi Stuckey? I saw that pre-Rex defense without Kerry Jenkins and it was ugly. Rex lost Jenkins and they were still the best defense in football with a fan-punchline now becoming a staple at the position. Maybe it was Kellen Clemens who he ruined. Oh wait -- I know the one I'm missing: he ruined Vernon Gholston.

The point being he wasn't saddled with a lottery team, and as unimpressive as that team was on paper, it got progressively worse over the last four years.

[T0mShane]

I think he's doing a damn good job considering the circumstances. He's got seven new starters on defense, and is giving up less than 17 points a game thru three weeks despite the fact his rookie QB has turned it over 7 times over those three games. That's his domain, his expertise, and he's kicking ass over there.

The team as a whole is 2-1. The Mornhinweg hire looks to be a good one so far. If Marty can stomach running a little more and/or get Geno to stop turning it over, this team can be one of the league's big surprises.

As you say, it's a week to week proposition, but I think the team is performing as expected. The only surprise bonus is that Geno looks better than any of us had a right to expect. Overall, I'd give Rex a C+. He's kept the team focused and playing hard after the beating it took all summer, and he's got the defense rolling. He still has trouble with the mechanics of the game, and (as noted earlier) Josh Freeman and Manuel both went down the field to steal leads late in the fourth, which obviously shouldn't happen. I'll be sold if they compete with the Falcons and Saints in a few weeks.

[JiFtheOracle]

The point being he wasn't saddled with a lottery team, and as unimpressive as that team was on paper, it got progressively worse over the last four years.

 

Which was Mangini and Tanny's fault with all their stupid trading picks and drafting sh*tty players and signing old veterans who had only a few years left.  Rex was crippled when he got here.  Clemens was his QB.  Limited # of picks his first few seasons.  Tanny did a horrible job with the cap.

 

Rex's work is coming out now.  All the questioning of what he was doing taking all the DL men, blah blah, yeah, it worked.  Offense next season once he's got some money and picks...look out!

[T0mShane]

Which was Mangini and Tanny's fault with all their stupid trading picks and drafting sh*tty players and signing old veterans who had only a few years left. Rex was crippled when he got here. Clemens was his QB. Limited # of picks his first few seasons. Tanny did a horrible job with the cap.

Rex's work is coming out now. All the questioning of what he was doing taking all the DL men, blah blah, yeah, it worked. Offense next season once he's got some money and picks...look out!

Go look at the picks that were traded away during the Rex Era, you filthy swine. Oodles.

[T0mShane]

Rex's work is coming out now.

This is hilarious. It's "Rex's work" at 2-1, but if they get steamrolled by the Falcons and Saints, you'll be talking about how Idzik screwed the pooch.

Breaking: spending high picks on front seven yields good front seven.

[Kleckineau]

As you say, it's a week to week proposition, but I think the team is performing as expected. The only surprise bonus is that Geno looks better than any of us had a right to expect. Overall, I'd give Rex a C+. He's kept the team focused and playing hard after the beating it took all summer, and he's got the defense rolling. He still has trouble with the mechanics of the game, and (as noted earlier) Josh Freeman and Manuel both went down the field to steal leads late in the fourth, which obviously shouldn't happen. I'll be sold if they compete with the Falcons and Saints in a few weeks.

True about TB but Buffalo only tied the game very early in the 4th but never led.

[JiFtheOracle]

Go look at the picks that were traded away during the Rex Era, you filthy swine. Oodles.

 

You're nuts.  Its even, maybe 1 or 2 more trades..  Off the top of my head.

 

Trades Under Mangini that cost picks:

Jenkins, Ramsey, Barlow, Ryan 

Revis, Harris, Jones 

Keller, Jenkins, Favre

 

Trades Under Ryan that cost picks:

Sanchez, Greene, Shepard, Braylon

Holmes, Cro, McKnight

Kerley

 

And then in year 4, they traded up for Hill and traded for Tebow.  But thats an extra year for Rex.  So it doesnt count.  GFY

[Sperm Edwards]

The point being he wasn't saddled with a lottery team, and as unimpressive as that team was on paper, it got progressively worse over the last four years.

I can read. The point was entirely that Rex was gifted an easy road to 11 wins in 2009 based on the lie that it was the same team Mangini rode to 9-7.

If you want to hear me say I think Rex would make a lousy GM you won't have to torture me to get me to say it.

[T0mShane]

You're nuts. Its even, maybe 1 or 2 more trades.. Off the top of my head.

Trades Under Mangini that cost picks:

Jenkins, Ramsey, Barlow, Ryan

Revis, Harris, Jones

Keller, Jenkins, Favre

Trades Under Ryan that cost picks:

Sanchez, Greene, Shepard, Braylon

Holmes, Cro, McKnight

Kerley

And then in year 4, they traded up for Hill and traded for Tebow. But thats an extra year for Rex. So it doesnt count. GFY

The only thing on the top of your head is a cum stain from your landlord.

[Sperm Edwards]

Go look at the picks that were traded away during the Rex Era, you filthy swine. Oodles.

Rex was not the GM. It's Trader Mike, not Trader Rex. How many times do you think Rex called another team's GM looking to trade up (or fielded calls from someone looking to trade down)?

If you answer with any number other than zero you're a bitonti.

[Sperm Edwards]

The only thing on the top of your head is a cum stain from your landlord.

I'm not his landlord, dick.

[T0mShane]

I can read. The point was entirely that Rex was gifted an easy road to 11 wins in 2009 based on the lie that it was the same team Mangini rode to 9-7.

If you want to hear me say I think Rex would make a lousy GM you won't have to torture me to get me to say it.

You referred to the overriding "lie" that Rex was handed a great team. I don't believe the conventional wisdom is that he was handed a great team. You extrapolated that part.

[T0mShane]

Rex was not the GM. It's Trader Mike, not Trader Rex. How many times do you think Rex called another team's GM looking to trade up (or fielded calls from someone looking to trade down)?

If you answer with any number other than zero you're a bitonti.

Where did I say that Rex traded picks?

You're probably JiF's landlord.

[slats]

Go look at the picks that were traded away during the Rex Era, you filthy swine. Oodles.

 

You're not really trying to pin traded draft picks on Rex, are you?

[T0mShane]

You're not really trying to pin traded draft picks on Rex, are you?

Nope. JiF, in his infinite wisdom, stated that Rex suffered from Mangini Era draft-pick trades. I simply pointed out that there were a lot of draft-pick trades during the Rex Era as well. That's all.

[Sperm Edwards]

You referred to the overriding "lie" that Rex was handed a great team. I don't believe the conventional wisdom is that he was handed a great team. You extrapolated that part.

 

The lie is the obvious insinuation that he was playing Gruden to Mangini's Dungy (or is it Dungy's Mangini?).  Basically, that a ready-made team was all in place for him.  It was not.  By year 2, half of the starters under Mangini had been replaced.

 

If you don't like the players who were added or have issues with not retaining others, then blame the GM.  Rex would make a poor GM; that wasn't his job then and it isn't his job now (thankfully).  But I know he comes up with original gameplans that outsmart others, and I've seen enough clips of him coaching technique in practices, to know that he isn't Herm Edwards asking Terry Bradway if he thinks his fingerpaint picture looks more like a Fig Newton or a beige spaceship with brown lips. 

[T0mShane]

The lie is the obvious insinuation that he was playing Gruden to Mangini's Dungy (or is it Dungy's Mangini?). Basically, that a ready-made team was all in place for him. It was not. By year 2, half of the starters under Mangini had been replaced.

I'm not sure that's the obvious insinuation. When I've brought it up, it's to point out that the team was better on Day One Year One than it was on Day One Years Three, Four, and Five.

If you don't like the players who were added or have issues with not retaining others, then blame the GM.

If we didn't afford Mangini the same benefit of the doubt regarding player acquisition and development, why should we allot it to Rex? It's an obvious double standard.

Rex would make a poor GM; that wasn't his job then and it isn't his job now (thankfully). But I know he comes up with original gameplans that outsmart others, and I've seen enough clips of him coaching technique in practices, to know that he isn't Herm Edwards asking Terry Bradway if he thinks his fingerpaint picture looks more like a Fig Newton or a beige spaceship with brown lips.

lol @ the Herm part. As far as coming up with creative game plans that outsmart others, I believe I heard the other day that the Jets haven't beaten a team with a winning record in two calendar years. I'll go back and look, but I can't think of the last time it happened.

[Sperm Edwards]

I'm not sure that's the obvious insinuation. When I've brought it up, it's to point out that the team was better on Day One Year One than it was on Day One Years Three, Four, and Five.

If we didn't afford Mangini the same benefit of the doubt regarding player acquisition and development, why should we allot it to Rex? It's an obvious double standard.

lol @ the Herm part. As far as coming up with creative game plans that outsmart others, I believe I heard the other day that the Jets haven't beaten a team with a winning record in two calendar years. I'll go back and look, but I can't think of the last time it happened.

 

Mangini was never good at coaching anything.  If he was a top coordinator or a top college coach prior to his gig as our HC, then he might have gotten more benefit.  He was also an unbelievable douchebag of a person while he was here (a trait that he continued with in Cleveland). He also was Woody's scapegoat for missing the playoffs after his favorite GM worked so hard to get Brett Favre here (not to mention how much was spent on other top-dollar FAs).

 

Wouldn't surprise me, since the Jets were awful last year and the 2nd half of the prior year.  Meanwhile I'm quite sure that stat doesn't take into account how good a team was, but rather their record at the time.  For example, I remember we beat Indy last year and they finished 11-5 (11-4 in their non-Jets matchups).  But somehow it doesn't count because they were 2-2 at the time.  

 

The unfortunate reality is (assuming no amount of money was going to get Peyton Manning here) last year we should have drafted Wilson and then cut Sanchez instead of extending Sanchez and signing Tebow.  This is what happens when your GM has neither played nor coached nor been a scout at any level, but instead worked his way up from being an intern with the Pittsfield Mets after law school or some sh*t like that.

[LionelRichie]

 

Wouldn't surprise me, since the Jets were awful last year and the 2nd half of the prior year.  Meanwhile I'm quite sure that stat doesn't take into account how good a team was, but rather their record at the time.  For example, I remember we beat Indy last year and they finished 11-5 (11-4 in their non-Jets matchups).  But somehow it doesn't count because they were 2-2 at the time.  

Manning, Brady, Flacco, Schaub, Ryan, Kapernick, Rogers, RG3

 

Those were the QB's of the division winners last season.   The entire HC discussion is moot....give Rex any of the above QB's and he is in the discussion of best in the NFL each and every year.   

[SMC]

[slats]

I'm not sure that's the obvious insinuation. When I've brought it up, it's to point out that the team was better on Day One Year One than it was on Day One Years Three, Four, and Five.

Not conceding this point, but what would that have to do with Rex?

Seems to me the biggest problems would've been bloated contracts to undeserving players, players getting old/breaking down, and poor drafts to replace that overpriced talent. Or, more precisely, the GM.

The last draft under The Great Mangini was one of the team's worst ever. The only player left on the team from the 2008/09 drafts is Mark Sanchez. The team drafted seven players, total, over Rex's first two years, and they were as poor on quality as they were on quantity.

The '11 & '12 drafts, however, may've been pretty good. Six or seven starters depending on what you consider Kerley. I wonder if you'll be giving Rex the credit for those drafts when the next guy is doing worse. 2013 is looking pretty good, too. Rex was really on the mark pushing for another DL in the first.

[Sperm Edwards]

Manning, Brady, Flacco, Schaub, Ryan, Kapernick, Rogers, RG3

 

Those were the QB's of the division winners last season.   The entire HC discussion is moot....give Rex any of the above QB's and he is in the discussion of best in the NFL each and every year.   

 

Whether he is or isn't, it's a f*ckload easier to look a f*ckload better and have a f*ckload more games already in the bag in the 4th quarter when compared to having Sanchez & (yet another) rookie.  Though I don't know how much Manning would cause 7 fewer drops in our 1 loss, and this past Thursday night game shows even he is capable of getting the ball stripped (in the red zone, no less) once in a while when the protection is turnstile-bad on a play.

 

Kubiak has gone 12-4 and 10-6 the last 2 years.  When his QB was David Carr he was 6-10.  With a first-time regular starter in Schaub he was 8-8.  And his wonderful offensive coaching wasn't worth dick on the other side of the ball.  One might even say he "ignored" one whole side of the football for 5 straight years after being the OC for the Broncos for over a decade.  Let's see...wins 6 or 8 games while ignoring one side of the football.  Then suddenly he gets a competent DC and the team drafts & acquires some top (key) players on defense and suddenly it looks like he isn't "ignoring" that side of the ball all game long every week.  Gee, that sounds familiar.

 

John Fox "ignored" the offense his whole first season before they replaced Orton/Tebow with Peyton Manning, as it turned the #25 offense (19ppg) into the #4 offense (30ppg) despite the same "weapons" around him.  I could argue he "ignored" the defense also.  It's funny how adding Peyton Manning, losing Broderick Bunkley, and replacing the DC with a fired HC turned Fox's #24 defense (24ppg) into the NFL's #4 defense (18ppg).

 

Swap Peyton Manning & Mark Sanchez last year & then tell me which HC goes deep in the playoffs and which wins 6 games.

[T0mShane]

Not conceding this point, but what would that have to do with Rex?

Seems to me the biggest problems would've been bloated contracts to undeserving players, players getting old/breaking down, and poor drafts to replace that overpriced talent. Or, more precisely, the GM.

The last draft under The Great Mangini was one of the team's worst ever. The only player left on the team from the 2008/09 drafts is Mark Sanchez. The team drafted seven players, total, over Rex's first two years, and they were as poor on quality as they were on quantity.

The '11 & '12 drafts, however, may've been pretty good. Six or seven starters depending on what you consider Kerley. I wonder if you'll be giving Rex the credit for those drafts when the next guy is doing worse. 2013 is looking pretty good, too. Rex was really on the mark pushing for another DL in the first.

I can best respond to this by making an obviously fallacious statement based in this line of thinking:

Mike Tannenbaum is solely responsible for the scouting, drafting, and development of Muhammad Wilkerson because he's the GM.

[slats]

I can best respond to this by making an obviously fallacious statement based in this line of thinking:

Mike Tannenbaum is solely responsible for the scouting, drafting, and development of Muhammad Wilkerson because he's the GM.

So then you are giving Rex credit for the last few drafts? You're tough to follow.

[whodeawhodat]

Whether he is or isn't, it's a f*ckload easier to look a f*ckload better and have a f*ckload more games already in the bag in the 4th quarter when compared to having Sanchez & (yet another) rookie.  Though I don't know how much Manning would cause 7 fewer drops in our 1 loss, and this past Thursday night game shows even he is capable of getting the ball stripped (in the red zone, no less) once in a while when the protection is turnstile-bad on a play.

 

Kubiak has gone 12-4 and 10-6 the last 2 years.  When his QB was David Carr he was 6-10.  With a first-time regular starter in Schaub he was 8-8.  And his wonderful offensive coaching wasn't worth dick on the other side of the ball.  One might even say he "ignored" one whole side of the football for 5 straight years after being the OC for the Broncos for over a decade.  Let's see...wins 6 or 8 games while ignoring one side of the football.  Then suddenly he gets a competent DC and the team drafts & acquires some top (key) players on defense and suddenly it looks like he isn't "ignoring" that side of the ball all game long every week.  Gee, that sounds familiar.

 

John Fox "ignored" the offense his whole first season before they replaced Orton/Tebow with Peyton Manning, as it turned the #25 offense (19ppg) into the #4 offense (30ppg) despite the same "weapons" around him.  I could argue he "ignored" the defense also.  It's funny how adding Peyton Manning, losing Broderick Bunkley, and replacing the DC with a fired HC turned Fox's #24 defense (24ppg) into the NFL's #4 defense (18ppg).

 

Swap Peyton Manning & Mark Sanchez last year & then tell me which HC goes deep in the playoffs and which wins 6 games.

 

abso****inglutely. 

 

That Rex did what he did with sanchez is reason enough alone to give him an opportunity with a real QB.  Hope Geno is that but we will have more up and down play from Geno as he is a rookie. I was talking with my buddy yesterday and I told him that if the Jets are stupid enough to cut Rex without that opportunity I hope he goes to the Bucs.  After Schiano is done running them into the ground they will be in prime position to draft a franchise QB and have plenty of peices in place already on their roster. Maybe then the Bucs wont be blacked out on TV for home games.  I sure will enjoy watching them, do they have PSLs too?

[LionelRichie]

 

Swap Peyton Manning & Mark Sanchez last year & then tell me which HC goes deep in the playoffs and which wins 6 games.

 

Frankly, I was done with Rex after 2012.   The thing that killed me about Rex was unwavering commitment to Mark Sanchez.   Sanchez was clearly killing the team but Rex kept running him out there week after butt fumble week.   

 

The addition of Idzik, getting Morningwhig thrust on him, and the mantra of "competition" has definitely changed Rex for the better.    I am totally ok with his focus on the Defense.   Knowing that regardless of personnel the Jets will still have a top 10 defense is a huge luxury.      5 years in you expect a little better game management wrt timeouts and challenges but Rex 2.0 is so far much improved.  

[Sperm Edwards]

I can best respond to this by making an obviously fallacious statement based in this line of thinking:

Mike Tannenbaum is solely responsible for the scouting, drafting, and development of Muhammad Wilkerson because he's the GM.

 

Remove the development part and you're not that far off.  I don't find it surprising (or even noteworthy) that as a former DL coach and DC, Ryan teaches technique to his DL guys but doesn't really get into it much with his QBs & receivers and leaves it to others who know better (or who he thinks know better or who he inherited and was forced to retain).

 

You think Sean Peyton is (and has been) teaching technique to his DBs? Fat freaking chance.  And if he was then he's been doing a pretty crappy job of it for some time now. And since no one else has done a great job of it one might even say he's been IGNORING that whole part of his team.  And he gave up a 2nd round pick for Jeremy Shockey! (He's their GM, right?). Meanwhile the Saints got Drew Brees locked in for $10M/year for 6 years when the league was unsure if his shoulder would be the same again, and somehow that makes him some great overall coach on both sides of the ball plus special teams.  He pays attention to one side of the ball and to the outside observer he has been derelict in his duties otherwise (like most HC's seem to be).  Except for the whole bounty thing with his defense; that part of his defense he was in on.  Class act.  Again, swap Sanchez & Brees for years on end, and then tell me who's a winner and who sucks.

 

Ryan has OBVIOUS flaws.  Thing is so do other coaches, including SB winners, if you choose to (or bother to) look.  But those guys tend to have money QBs, and it isn't a subtle difference.

[Sperm Edwards]

Frankly, I was done with Rex after 2012.   The thing that killed me about Rex was unwavering commitment to Mark Sanchez.   Sanchez was clearly killing the team but Rex kept running him out there week after butt fumble week.   

 

The addition of Idzik, getting Morningwhig thrust on him, and the mantra of "competition" has definitely changed Rex for the better.    I am totally ok with his focus on the Defense.   Knowing that regardless of personnel the Jets will still have a top 10 defense is a huge luxury.      5 years in you expect a little better game management wrt timeouts and challenges but Rex 2.0 is so far much improved.  

 

It was infuriating.  The time management is still an issue as well.

[T0mShane]

So then you are giving Rex credit for the last few drafts? You're tough to follow.

As I've stated all along, he gets a significant share of credit for the successes, and a significant amount of blame for the failures.