ESPN is reporting Coughlin is out

[nyjunc]

I don't believe you are not only flailing on him getting in, now youre going to try ranking those in the HOF.  LOL.  

stack his resume up, he doesn't belong.  you want to reward him for 2 great runs.  Shanahan has 2 Sbs too while leading his teams to better reg season and breaking the NFC stranglehold on Sbs and he doesn't belong, Tom Flores has 2 more dominant SB wins and he's not in.

[nyjunc]

Don't bother. He's the biggest pats fan on the board. You know how to truly spot one of them? Bring up the Giants. If there's one thing that truly gets under pats fans skin other than all the cheating, it's the Giants. More so than Peyton Manning, moreso than the Jets, it's the Giants. . 

you really bring nothing to the board other than whining.

[bostonmajet]

This is a serious question?

Anyone would even bother to turn away from this because of picks or because of Fitz being on this team?  Fitz was great but LOL, Luck?

I don't think it was serious and I think next year is the last year of his contract, but yeah, I would gladly trade 2 firsts, or Mo and Sheldon to get Luck.

Maybe they will do a straight trade for Geno (and the $600)

[greenwichjetfan]

you really bring nothing to the board other than whining.

How is it possible for you to underappreciate Coughlin's two super bowl wins as not HOF worthy, when you go on and on talking about how you're above everyone else because you appreciate the pats ability to win?

[Jet Nut]

 

yep, b/c I am saying Mark should be in the HOF.

 

do we also realize how similar our '09/'10 runs were and NYG '07/'11?  just a little luck here and there and we are easily in 2 SBs and NYG loses both title games.  In the '10 title game sanchez was throwing a pass that they call an INT, an incredibly close call and it goes against us for a fumble returned for TD.  a year later in SF Ahmad Bradshaw clearly fumbles late in the game which would have set up chip shot FG for SF win and they blow it dead.  2 incredibly close plays, went for NYG and against us or history is completely changed.

 

Sanchez played really well during our runs just as Eli did during his, the difference was NYGs D/STs and some good fortune but eli and coughlin are lock HOfers

Sanchez isnt in the same conversations as Eli, please stop.  Sanchez sucked both seasons and outside of one win had little to do with any of the 4 playoff wins.  

No matter how hard you try he's no Eli.  There isnt a GM alive or dead who would have traded Eli for Sanchez then or today.

[nyjunc]

How is it possible for you to underappreciate Coughlin's two super bowl wins as not HOF worthy, when you go on and on talking about how you're above everyone else because you appreciate the pats ability to win?

I always give coughlin and NYg credit for those 2 runs.  they were great but not HOF worthy.

Sanchez isnt in the same conversations as Eli, please stop.  Sanchez sucked both seasons and outside of one win had little to do with any of the 4 playoff wins.  

No matter how hard you try he's no Eli.  There isnt a GM alive or dead who would have traded Eli for Sanchez then or today.

Sanchez 2010 was better than Eli 2010 and he was better last year too.  sanchez had a good rookie year then was really good in 2010.  a key to that 2010 run.  Eli(and HOFer coughlin) have now missed 6 of 7 postseasons in maybe the weakest division in football.

and it's not about Eli vs. Mark, the point is both were really good on those runs but some breaks went Eli's way and not marks specifically the D/STs of NYG were much better than ours.

[Jet Nut]

Don't bother. He's the biggest pats fan on the board. You know how to truly spot one of them? Bring up the Giants. If there's one thing that truly gets under pats fans skin other than all the cheating, it's the Giants. More so than Peyton Manning, moreso than the Jets, it's the Giants. 

For anyone to look at Coughlin's two super bowl rings and not immediately enshrine him, they must be pats fans. 

Hes arguing that winning a playoff game is harder than winning the SB.  Doesnt even get that being in the SB makes that Pats team better than a team that lost to us in their first playoff game of 2010.  Then gives winning percentages of the playoffs vs the SB?  The only two SB losses by Brady and Belichick were to the Giants and Coughlin.  The fool lowers their SB winning percentage by the 2 games the guy who he's arguing isnt worthy?  LOL

Now he's onto his Sanchez lover.  His playoff runs are similar to Eli.  With the SB wins for Eli.  LOL

[#27TheDominator]

I don't think it was serious and I think next year is the last year of his contract, but yeah, I would gladly trade 2 firsts, or Mo and Sheldon to get Luck.

Maybe they will do a straight trade for Geno (and the $600)

Luck is on his 5th year extension.  It's around $16M.  If he is franchised, he will get the QB amount (around $18M for 2015) or 120% of his salary - so a minimum of $19M or so. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

As long as Jerry Reese is the GM,  the giants can bring Bill Belichick in to coach and they would be awful. The Giants didn't lack coaching, the team lacked  talent on offense/defense. Outside of Eli and Odell the team is a dumpster fire. The only good player on Defense is missing half a hand.

Coughlin has proven, at numerous times, that he can win with sub-par talent,  he proved twice that he could win a super bowl with average talent. Whoever they bring in will be a downgrade. I don't care about a couple of questionable calls in a few game this year because this team had 4-12 talent and it was only Coughlin's coaching that allowed them to be competitive in the first place. Good luck Giants fans....you're going to need it with Reese calling the shots!

[nyjunc]

Hes arguing that winning a playoff game is harder than winning the SB.  Doesnt even get that being in the SB makes that Pats team better than a team that lost to us in their first playoff game of 2010.  Then gives winning percentages of the playoffs vs the SB?  The only two SB losses by Brady and Belichick were to the Giants and Coughlin.  The fool lowers their SB winning percentage by the 2 games the guy who he's arguing isnt worthy?  LOL

Now he's onto his Sanchez lover.  His playoff runs are similar to Eli.  With the SB wins for Eli.  LOL

it's amazing how the point flies over your head.

in non NYG SBs: avg score: NE 26 opps 23

 

the only difference btw Eli and mark in those runs was that Eli's D/STs stepped up and ours did not(in title games and beyond)

[greenwichjetfan]

I always give coughlin and NYg credit for those 2 runs.  they were great but not HOF worthy.

Name all the coaches in the salary cap era who have more than one super bowl win to their credit.

2 Super Bowl wins is 100% HoF worthy unless you're a Seifert type who took over a 100% finished product and basically just stood there. Especially in today's NFL.

[bostonmajet]

Luck is on his 5th year extension.  It's around $16M.  If he is franchised, he will get the QB amount (around $18M for 2015) or 120% of his salary - so a minimum of $19M or so. 

It is my understanding that his 5th year option of 16M is for 2016; if they franchised him, it would be for 2017, no?

[greenwichjetfan]

Hes arguing that winning a playoff game is harder than winning the SB.  Doesnt even get that being in the SB makes that Pats team better than a team that lost to us in their first playoff game of 2010.  Then gives winning percentages of the playoffs vs the SB?  The only two SB losses by Brady and Belichick were to the Giants and Coughlin.  The fool lowers their SB winning percentage by the 2 games the guy who he's arguing isnt worthy?  LOL

Now he's onto his Sanchez lover.  His playoff runs are similar to Eli.  With the SB wins for Eli.  LOL

Forget Sanchey, I think he's still upset that Coughlin beat his 18-0 team of destiny with the greatest offense the league had ever seen (till then), with the greatest modern day coach ever outside of Bill Walsh, and a top 3 all time QB. That's why he doesn't want to give Coughlin his due.

[nyjunc]

Name all the coaches in the salary cap era who have more than one super bowl win to their credit.

2 Super Bowl wins is 100% HoF worthy unless you're a Seifert type who took over a 100% finished product and basically just stood there. Especially in today's NFL.

Seifert did a better job than Coughlin.  he took over an old dynasty and then won a SB 5 years later.

Shanahan has 2 as well and he's not HOF worthy either.  None of those other coaches had 13 losses in the 2 SB years.

of coaches w/ 2 SB wins not in Hall:

Flores: 9 losses

Seifert: 5 losses

Shanahan: 6 losses

Coughlin: 13 losses

Coughlin got on nice runs but greatness is not just about a few weeks or Peyton manning won't make the Hall of fame himself since he is a terrible postseason QB.

[nyjunc]

Forget Sanchey, I think he's still upset that Coughlin beat his 18-0 team of destiny with the greatest offense the league had ever seen (till then), with the greatest modern day coach ever outside of Bill Walsh, and a top 3 all time QB. That's why he doesn't want to give Coughlin his due.

NE created a dynasty b/c of Brady not BB

[Jet Nut]

I always give coughlin and NYg credit for those 2 runs.  they were great but not HOF worthy.

Sanchez 2010 was better than Eli 2010 and he was better last year too.  sanchez had a good rookie year then was really good in 2010.  a key to that 2010 run.  Eli(and HOFer coughlin) have now missed 6 of 7 postseasons in maybe the weakest division in football.

and it's not about Eli vs. Mark, the point is both were really good on those runs but some breaks went Eli's way and not marks specifically the D/STs of NYG were much better than ours.

Sanchez cant even ask to hold Elis jock.  Sanchez is a scrub of scrubs, Eli is more than likely in the HOF as of today.

Playoff runs

Eli Has a SB rings and: 

2007-3339 yards, 23 TDs, 20 INTs, QB rating of 73.9

2011- 4900 yards, 29 TDs, 16 INTs a QBrating of 93

The immortal Mark Sanchez:

2009-2400 yards, 12 TDs, 20 INTs, QBrating of 63

2010-3200 yards, 17 TDs, 13 INTs, QBrating of 75

 

Last year?????? WTF, Eli had 4400 yards, 35TDs, 13 INTs and a QBrating of 94

Sanchez backed up Bradford

 

 

 

[#27TheDominator]

It is my understanding that his 5th year option of 16M is for 2016; if they franchised him, it would be for 2017, no?

Correct.  I am saying the franchise for 2017 would be a minimum of $19M based on 120% of the 5th year option.  It could be higher depending on what happens with QB contracts in the interim.

[nyjunc]

Sanchez cant even ask to hold Elis jock.  Sanchez is a scrub of scrubs, Eli is more than likely in the HOF as of today.

Playoff runs

Eli Has a SB rings and: 

2007-3339 yards, 23 TDs, 20 INTs, QB rating of 73.9

2011- 4900 yards, 29 TDs, 16 INTs a QBrating of 93

The immortal Mark Sanchez:

2009-2400 yards, 12 TDs, 20 INTs, QBrating of 63

2010-3200 yards, 17 TDs, 13 INTs, QBrating of 75

 

Last year?????? WTF, Eli had 4400 yards, 35TDs, 13 INTs and a QBrating of 94

Sanchez backed up Bradford

 

 

 

what does this have to do w/ the 2 playoff runs?

last year as in 2014

 

and all those great #s this year(w/ best WR in football) really helped the team, how many late game meltdowns did Eli screw up costing his team a chance at a creampuff division?

[Jet Nut]

it's amazing how the point flies over your head.

in non NYG SBs: avg score: NE 26 opps 23

 

the only difference btw Eli and mark in those runs was that Eli's D/STs stepped up and ours did not(in title games and beyond)

I'm going to be totally honest and to the point that you think is flying over anyones head.

Winning two SBs is a lot harder, on every and any level than winning one playoff game.  No one gives a shlt about the scores in those games.  Its about wins.  Not scores.

ANd only a fool would argue the point.  Fool is way to kind but I'm being nice.  

 

[nyjunc]

I'm going to be totally honest and to the point that you think is flying over anyones head.

Winning two SBs is a lot harder, on every and any level than winning one playoff game.  No one gives a shlt about the scores in those games.  Its about wins.  Not scores.

ANd only a fool would argue the point.  Fool is way to kind but I'm being nice.  

 

again, winning a SB is obviously harder but in one single game against NE it is harder to beat them at Foxboro than on a neutral field.

[Jet Nut]

what does this have to do w/ the 2 playoff runs?

last year as in 2014

 

and all those great #s this year(w/ best WR in football) really helped the team, how many late game meltdowns did Eli screw up costing his team a chance at a creampuff division?

What do Elis and Sanchez playoff years have to do with it?  Really?  

 

Last year?  You said he was better last year too.  Your words.  Not 2014, whats the point of 2014.  Stop flailing 

 

[Jet Nut]

again, winning a SB is obviously harder but in one single game against NE it is harder to beat them at Foxboro than on a neutral field.

NO.  No one will agree with this idiotic statement.  Only a fool makes this argument.  You're embarrassing yourself.

 

[nyjunc]

What do Elis and Sanchez playoff years have to do with it?  Really?  

 

Last year?  You said he was better last year too.  Your words.  Not 2014, whats the point of 2014.  Stop flailing 

 

last year is 2014(or last season if that makes you feel better since the calendar just turned to January).  it was obvious what was meant but you need to latch on to meaningless points to deflect.

[nyjunc]

NO.  No one will agree with this idiotic statement.  Only a fool makes this argument.  You're embarrassing yourself.

 

you should be looking into a mirror when you make that statement.

[Jet Nut]

last year is 2014(or last season if that makes you feel better since the calendar just turned to January).  it was obvious what was meant but you need to latch on to meaningless points to deflect.

Why would 2014 be obviously?  Last year is what you said and last year was 2015 season?  Are you kidding?  Can you ever just admit you made a mistake?  You asked about last year and then come back with no two years ago as if I made a mistake

2014:

Eli:  4400 yards, 30 TDs, 14 INTs, QBrating of 92 and is a starting NFL QB

Sanchez: 2400 yards, 14 TDs, 11 INTs,QBrating of 88 and is a backup NFL QB to a scrub starter

[Jet Nut]

you should be looking into a mirror when you make that statement.

Idiotic, the statement is idiotic.  

You want to get offended, stop arguing these points.  Sanchez was never the QB Eli was or is.  Period.  

[nyjunc]

Why would 2014 be obviously?  Last year is what you said and last year was 2015 season?  Are you kidding?  Can you ever just admit you made a mistake?  You asked about last year and then come back with no two years ago as if I made a mistake

2014:

Eli:  4400 yards, 30 TDs, 14 INTs, QBrating of 92 and is a starting NFL QB

Sanchez: 2400 yards, 14 TDs, 11 INTs,QBrating of 88 and is a backup NFL QB to a scrub starter

just stop w/ your idiocy.  to think I meant 2015 is just plain stupid.

[greenwichjetfan]

Seifert did a better job than Coughlin.  he took over an old dynasty and then won a SB 5 years later.

Shanahan has 2 as well and he's not HOF worthy either.  None of those other coaches had 13 losses in the 2 SB years.

of coaches w/ 2 SB wins not in Hall:

Flores: 9 losses

Seifert: 5 losses

Shanahan: 6 losses

Coughlin: 13 losses

Coughlin got on nice runs but greatness is not just about a few weeks or Peyton manning won't make the Hall of fame himself since he is a terrible postseason QB.

Seifert took over a 100% finished product with an offensive scheme that was 10 years ahead of NFL defenses at the time, and still took 5 years to win a super bowl with the greatest QB and greatest WR to ever play, and the best team that money could buy. Are you serious with this? George Seifert was the definition of a useless puppet coach - more so than Caldwell in his Peyton led Colts years; moreso than Tomlin's first couple of years, and more so than Tom Flores...

Tom Flores was another guy who took over a 100% finished product from Madden and rode it to two SB championships. The guy was terrible. 

The two guys above don't deserve the HoF because they won with someone else's teams.

Shanahan isn't eligible yet. When he will become eligible, he will be a HoFer for transforming Elway from a 4x super bowl loser to a 2x all-time great. You'll probably just credit Kubiak's zone blocking and TD, but Shanahan will be a HoFer. 

Coughlin did not take over any finished products...hell he took over an expansion franchise and led them to AFC title games. Then he took over a depleted Giants team, drafted a rookie QB, jettisoned their best offensive player in Tiki Barber, and still went on to win 2 super bowls...against the pats btw. And he did it in the salary cap era where he couldn't just buy his teams like York did for Seifert or Davis did for Flores or Jerry Jones did for Jimmy Johnson.

Get outta here with your blind patriot loving hate. Coughlin is a HoFer. Wait the 5 years, and he'll be a first balloter. 

[greenwichjetfan]

NE created a dynasty b/c of Brady not BB

So you're saying that BB is not HoF worthy?

You're unbelievable with not being able to give any credit to anyone except Brady. You literally are the biggest Brady dick sucker I've ever encountered. Even pats fans from MA  don't gargle with Brady's bath water the way you do.

[Jet Nut]

just stop w/ your idiocy.  to think I meant 2015 is just plain stupid.

Youre entire argument is stupid.

And when someone says last year its 2015, thats the last year, their last season, the last one that thats over.  

Its no more stupid than asking someone to compare Eli's 2014 to Sanchez as if it would prove anything, having the numbers proving that youre desperate or just dont know and leaving you with nothing more to complain about other than the meaning of last year.

[Powpow]

 

this coach's team DOMINATED their 2 SB wins.

True that. Flores totally belongs in the HOF. His record however, is not as impressive as Couglin's.  Meant to state 'many many' years as part of the HOF resume.  Flores coached 12 years, not bad, but Tom has coached 20 and has a slightly better W/L %.  Still, Flores is unique:

Flores and Mike Ditka are the only two people in the National Football League history to win a Championship (Super Bowl IV as a player, Super Bowl XI as an Assistant Coach, and Super Bowls XV and XVIII as a head coach) as a player, as an assistant coach, and as a head coach. Flores was also the first Hispanic starting quarterback ^[1] and the first minority head coach in professional football history to win a Super Bowl.^[2]

[Powpow]

Coughlin is a very good HC but in 20 seasons:

made playoffs 9 times

missed playoffs 11 times

was FIRED by NYG after missing playoffs 6 of 7 seasons and the year they made the run to the SB they wouldn't have made the playoffs if the division wasn't so bad.

Coughlin is a borderline candidate at best and I feel he doesn't belong.  The Hall of fame is about sustained greatness, this does not describe the career of Tom Coughlin.

Try and be objective. I know its hard for you.  Numerous years as an assistant under the likes of a Parcells. 9 playoff appearances in 20 years...that nearly half.  2‌ SB wins vs. what some called the greatest team ever (before they lost to Couglin's Giants).  Not to mention, both wins came vs. what some believe to be the greatest head coach EVER in BB.    The guy has been a staple in the NFL for decades and is revered by his players as a great coach and a great man.  The HOF takes into account more than just a person's record. Their entire contribution is assessed.  Coughlin will get in and when you visit the HOF, pay your damn respect to the man's bust.

[nyjunc]

Seifert took over a 100% finished product with an offensive scheme that was 10 years ahead of NFL defenses at the time, and still took 5 years to win a super bowl with the greatest QB and greatest WR to ever play, and the best team that money could buy. Are you serious with this? George Seifert was the definition of a useless puppet coach - more so than Caldwell in his Peyton led Colts years; moreso than Tomlin's first couple of years, and more so than Tom Flores...

Tom Flores was another guy who took over a 100% finished product from Madden and rode it to two SB championships. The guy was terrible. 

The two guys above don't deserve the HoF because they won with someone else's teams.

Shanahan isn't eligible yet. When he will become eligible, he will be a HoFer for transforming Elway from a 4x super bowl loser to a 2x all-time great. You'll probably just credit Kubiak's zone blocking and TD, but Shanahan will be a HoFer. 

Coughlin did not take over any finished products...hell he took over an expansion franchise and led them to AFC title games. Then he took over a depleted Giants team, drafted a rookie QB, jettisoned their best offensive player in Tiki Barber, and still went on to win 2 super bowls...against the pats btw. And he did it in the salary cap era where he couldn't just buy his teams like York did for Seifert or Davis did for Flores or Jerry Jones did for Jimmy Johnson.

Get outta here with your blind patriot loving hate. Coughlin is a HoFer. Wait the 5 years, and he'll be a first balloter. 

he did but that dynasty was old and crumbling and he saw it through the retooling to bring them back to another SB title 5 years later.

you aren't winning SBs w/ a puppet.

Flores was another guy that took over an old team.  while SF was the best team in football and he had one more year w/ those aging stars Flores took over a team on the decline.  after winning 11 or more 4 straight years they went down to 9-7. Stabler was at the end of his career and they traded for Dan Pastorini before he got hurt and Plunkett came in then he won 2 SBs w/ a guy who was considered a bust up until that point.  Flores didn't coach as long only coaching 12 years but his 2 SB teams dominated their SBs, they didn't squeak by and after beating favored Washington 38-9 in SB XVIII the AFC wouldn't win another SB until 14 years later.

Elway lost 4 SBs b/c he didn't have the talent around him while w/ Shanahan they had it.  it's as simple as that.

Shanahan 4 years w/ Elway: won 12 or more games 3 times, 2 conf titles, 2 SB titles

Shanahan in 15 seasons w/o Elway: won ONE playoff game

 

stop w/ the expansion nonsense, those teams were given the fast track to success.  what they did was easy and he had the most talented roster in the conf late in the 90s and never made a SB.

the Giants were not depleted, in his first year they had Kurt Warner, eli Manning, Tiki, Toomer, Shockey, O'Hara, Petitgout, Hilliard, Snee, Diehl, Strahan, Joseph, Osi, Williams.  he walked into a ton of talent so that is BS.  they were ONE year removed from double digit wins and a playoff app.

 

again, he may make it but I don't believe he belongs.  the hall should be for the best of the best, 2 4 game runs does not equal that.

 

 

So you're saying that BB is not HoF worthy?

You're unbelievable with not being able to give any credit to anyone except Brady. You literally are the biggest Brady dick sucker I've ever encountered. Even pats fans from MA  don't gargle with Brady's bath water the way you do.

BB will skate into Canton, he's developed into a great HC, he wouldn't be a HC today if Brady didn't rescue his career.

True that. Flores totally belongs in the HOF. His record however, is not as impressive as Couglin's.  Meant to state 'many many' years as part of the HOF resume.  Flores coached 12 years, not bad, but Tom has coached 20 and has a slightly better W/L %.  Still, Flores is unique:

Flores and Mike Ditka are the only two people in the National Football League history to win a Championship (Super Bowl IV as a player, Super Bowl XI as an Assistant Coach, and Super Bowls XV and XVIII as a head coach) as a player, as an assistant coach, and as a head coach. Flores was also the first Hispanic starting quarterback ^[1] and the first minority head coach in professional football history to win a Super Bowl.^[2]

his record is not as impressive but when he won SBs he led his teams to dominant wins and better reg season.

Try and be objective. I know its hard for you.  Numerous years as an assistant under the likes of a Parcells. 9 playoff appearances in 20 years...that nearly half.  2‌ SB wins vs. what some called the greatest team ever (before they lost to Couglin's Giants).  Not to mention, both wins came vs. what some believe to be the greatest head coach EVER in BB.    The guy has been a staple in the NFL for decades and is revered by his players as a great coach and a great man.  The HOF takes into account more than just a person's record. Their entire contribution is assessed.  Coughlin will get in and when you visit the HOF, pay your damn respect to the man's bust.

I am always objective, what coughlin did as a WRs coach for the 1990 Giants is as irrelevant as what he did at BC.  he had 3 years under BP so it wasn't long, also spent time in Philly and GB.  7 yrs as an ass't his team won playoff games in one of those seasons.

9 in 20 is a bad percentage especially for a guy in stabile positions w/ just 2 teams, he didn't have to go turn around franchises like Parcells did every few years.

very good HC, not great.  the Hall should be for greatness not 2 months worth of great football where he needed a ball to stick to a helmet and a welker drop to win them,

[Jet Nut]

 

9 in 20 is a bad percentage especially for a guy in stabile positions w/ just 2 teams, he didn't have to go turn around franchises like Parcells did every few years.

very good HC, not great.  the Hall should be for greatness not 2 months worth of great football where he needed a ball to stick to a helmet and a welker drop to win them,

Stabile?  Didnt turn two franchises around like Parcells?

Coughlin took over a 4-12 Giants team. 6, 11, 8, 10 & 12 followed

Coughlin took over an expansion Jaguar team. 4 wins in year 1 of their existence then 9, 11, 11 & 14.  

Not impressive.  No turnovers to either organization 

A 1000 word diatribe on why these numbers are misleading or mediocre is sure to follow.

you know how to pad your post totals arguing a losing argument 

 

 

[Powpow]

I am always objective, what coughlin did as a WRs coach for the 1990 Giants is as irrelevant as what he did at BC.  he had 3 years under BP so it wasn't long, also spent time in Philly and GB.  7 yrs as an ass't his team won playoff games in one of those seasons.

9 in 20 is a bad percentage especially for a guy in stabile positions w/ just 2 teams, he didn't have to go turn around franchises like Parcells did every few years.

very good HC, not great.  the Hall should be for greatness not 2 months worth of great football where he needed a ball to stick to a helmet and a welker drop to win them,

Objectivity ......based on facts rather than feelings or opinions : not influenced by feelings.  I feel you're an azzhole. See, I am not being objective. 

Based on your assessment of Coughlin's career, you only credit him with '2 months of greatness'.  Since when is a football season 2 months.  Your argument is filled with excuses as childish as the dog ate my homework. Give the man his credit, what's it to ya. So he beat your beloved Pats.  No need to be so picayune about HOW he won and WHY he won and if this that or the other.  He took 2 underdog teams and beat a heavily favored opponent fair and square.  On top of that, he developed a new Jaguar team and had pretty good success there.  I agree his overall record wasn't over the top like Bill Cowher but you have to look at his OVERALL impact on the game and his place in history and that takes OBJECTIVITY.