Marshall: Without Fitz, “We probably would have been 4-12”

[nyjunc]

First of all they won the division because it sucked this year and they won the division at 9-7; so in theory if we were in that division, we win at 10-6.

The didn't win the division last year since Luck was healthy all year, and the won the division; so this year with a healthy Luck, they likely win the division and Houston wins out

Fitz was the starter there when he got hurt and he was traded, not released (not too important, but hey facts are facts).

We play in a harder division; to win the South you needed 9 wins, we would have needed at least 12 to win the East; in fact, with their current record, the Texans wouldn't have made the playoffs if they played in any other division in the AFC; in fact, they would be 3rd in the other divisions. So, yes playing in a 'sh*tty' division def. helped them out.

Not to mention that their only competition was the Colts without Luck for a run, and 2 teams that finished worse than Miami.

But yeah, Fitz is the reason Houston made it this year and the Jets didn't.

Fitz was 6-6 last year, backups were 3-1 including only win over a playoff team all season.

 

[Jetsfan80]

Actually 5-1, but yes.

No, we only played each of the AFC South teams once.

[nyjunc]

This is supported by the fact that we went 3-1 against that division. 

Using this logic the Eagles would have won the AFC east since they went 3-1 against us?

[bostonmajet]

No, we only played each of the AFC South teams once.

Sorry, misread you...

[Villain The Foe]

Fitz was 6-6 last year, backups were 3-1 including only win over a playoff team all season.

 

Dude, im still laughing at the fact that this dude said that the Texans made the playoffs this year because the division sucked (which was true) but when Fitz was the QB last year (supposedly when the division didnt suck) the Texans didnt make the playoffs. 

 

How does one even make this argument with a straight face lol. 

[nyjunc]

Dude, im still laughing at the fact that this dude said that the Texans made the playoffs this year because the division sucked (which was true) but when Fitz was the QB last year (supposedly when the division didnt suck) the Texans didnt make the playoffs. 

 

How does one even make this argument with a straight face lol. 

I do see his point about the division, Indy didn't suck last year so they couldn't win at 9-7 but they weren't going to be 9-7 w/ Fitz.

[bostonmajet]

So let me get this right, The Texans won the division because it sucked this year. So last year (When it didnt suck) and they had Fitzpatrick why didnt the Texans make the playoffs?

lol. 

First of all I was disputing the claim that is was the same sucky division - which isn't the case.  But, take NE out of the equation this year and who wins the East? We do.  Luck's injury took the Colts out, and ...

Didn't say Fitz is the greatest QB ever, but he is very effective on the Jets. The fact that a team the got hammered in a playoff game 30-0 made it into the playoffs in a crappy division without Fitz has more to do, IMO, with the fact that the Colts sucked this year more than the Houston QBs were great.

[nyjunc]

First of all I was disputing the claim that is was the same sucky division - which isn't the case.  But, take NE out of the equation this year and who wins the East? We do.  Luck's injury took the Colts out, and ...

Didn't say Fitz is the greatest QB ever, but he is very effective on the Jets. The fact that a team the got hammered in a playoff game 30-0 made it into the playoffs in a crappy division without Fitz has more to do, IMO, with the fact that the Colts sucked this year more than the Houston QBs were great.

Indy has been better w/o Fitz than w/ Fitz.  Fitz had a really good year but when we needed him most he didn't show up.  Records are nice but he had a chance to get us back to the playoffs and failed miserably.  b/c of that his season was not a success.

[Villain The Foe]

First of all I was disputing the claim that is was the same sucky division - which isn't the case.  But, take NE out of the equation this year and who wins the East? We do.  Luck's injury took the Colts out, and ...

Didn't say Fitz is the greatest QB ever, but he is very effective on the Jets. The fact that a team the got hammered in a playoff game 30-0 made it into the playoffs in a crappy division without Fitz has more to do, IMO, with the fact that the Colts sucked this year more than the Houston QBs were great.

It is the case. Its the same teams right? There was nothing to dispute. Hoyer made the playoffs this year in a sucky division because that division has always sucked. If you dont believe that fact go ask Andrew Luck. 

[Jetsfan80]

Fitzpatrick broke his leg last year.  Before he went down, he was having a very good season, and the team was something like 6-4 in games he started.  The Texans moved on because 1) Fitz is getting older, and 2) they're stupid when it comes to the QB position, historically. 

And no, you can't really blame all this on Maccagnan himself, as he was the Director of College Scouting at Houston, not the GM.  And one of his first moves here was to bring in Fitz.

No one should be advocating for us to make the same mistake as the Texans.  If you're going to let an effective starter walk, you had better have a superior "Plan B" than Brian Hoyer.

[bostonmajet]

I do see his point about the division, Indy didn't suck last year so they couldn't win at 9-7 but they weren't going to be 9-7 w/ Fitz.

Thank you.  Also, I don't know who Fitz won/lost against and who the backups played against.  Also, Fitz had a ridiculous game I think like 6/0 TD/INT.

I was stating that you cannot necessarily compare one season to another.  This much is true, although Fitz was pretty average (at best) with Houston, he played extremely well for the Jets this year.  I think it is fair to say that although he may never play that well again, that his play elevated the team; I doubt Geno plays as well but we will never know.

I just didn't care for the division sucks, Houston lost last year with Fitz, and won it this year without him - sorry, IMO bad logic there.

[bostonmajet]

It is the case. Its the same teams right? There was nothing to dispute. Hoyer made the playoffs this year in a sucky division because that division has always sucked. If you dont believe that fact go ask Andrew Luck. 

They won the division this year, because with Luck missing much of it the division sucked.  That division with Luck may still suck, but Indy is the winner every year.  Hoyer won because this year the whole division sucked where normally only the bottom half of the division sucks.

[Villain The Foe]

Thank you.  Also, I don't know who Fitz won/lost against and who the backups played against.  Also, Fitz had a ridiculous game I think like 6/0 TD/INT.

 

6 TD's  Against the Tennesee Titans (A division rival) who picked 2nd overall in the draft last year. That same team is picking 1st overall this year. The Jacksonville Jags are picking 5th this year and last year the picked 3rd. Also a division rival. 

The division was trash last year with Fitz just like it was trash this year as well as it was trash the year before that. The difference here is that the Texans didnt make the playoffs last year, made a QB change and made the playoffs. 

 

[bostonmajet]

Fitzpatrick broke his leg last year.  Before he went down, he was having a very good season, and the team was something like 6-4 in games he started.  The Texans moved on because 1) Fitz is getting older, and 2) they're stupid when it comes to the QB position, historically. 

And no, you can't really blame all this on Maccagnan himself, as he was the Director of College Scouting at Houston, not the GM.  And one of his first moves here was to bring in Fitz.

No one should be advocating for us to make the same mistake as the Texans.  If you're going to let an effective starter walk, you had better have a superior "Plan B" than Brian Hoyer.

Also, the point of this thread is whether this team wins 10 games without Fitz; and this year I say no.  We don't have anyone on the roster who could have played as well as Fitz.

If you are arguing that Fitz lost us the chance to be in the playoffs, well, that is a different thread.  But, if you take into consideration that we likely only go 8-8 without Fitz then no he didn't loose the division.  If you take the first 15 games out and there is only the one Buffalo game, then you can claim Fitz lost the game with the 4th Q Int in the end zone (and didn't have a very good rest of the game).  But, of course only looking at game 16, the whole team pretty much laid an egg on that one.

[bostonmajet]

6 TD's  Against the Tennesee Titans (A division rival) who picked 2nd overall in the draft last year. That same team is picking 1st overall last year. The Jacksonville Jags are picking 5th this year and last year the picked 3rd. Also a division rival. 

The division was trash last year with Fitz just like it was trash this year as well as it was trash the year before that. The difference here is that the Texans didnt make the playoffs last year, made a QB change and made the playoffs. 

 

No the difference here is that last year 9-7 gets you watching the playoffs, and this year 9-7 in that division wins the division; The difference here is that Luck (and then their backup) was hurt. The difference is that last year while the Texans had the same 9-7 record, the Cols were 11-5.  That is the only real difference.

[Villain The Foe]

They won the division this year, because with Luck missing much of it the division sucked.  That division with Luck may still suck, but Indy is the winner every year.  Hoyer won because this year the whole division sucked where normally only the bottom half of the division sucks.

So what Luck was hurt. The point here is that Fitz didnt make the playoffs with the Texans last year and thats not because its Andrew Lucks fault. The Jets had a chance to make the playoffs in week 17 against Buffalo. Fitz threw 3 picks in the last quarter to end our season, is that somehow Tom Brady's fault? I mean, thats the type of logic you're using here. 

[Villain The Foe]

No the difference here is that last year 9-7 gets you watching the playoffs, and this year 9-7 in that division wins the division; The difference here is that Luck (and then their backup) was hurt. The difference is that last year while the Texans had the same 9-7 record, the Cols were 11-5.  That is the only real difference.

Fitzpatrick didnt even WIN 9 games last year so why even make the argument? The difference is that the Texans still play 14 games that are NOT against the Colts and Fitz and the Texans couldnt get it done, similar two the Jets playing 14 games that are not against the Patriots and Fitz and the Jets couldnt get it done. 

Also, Luck and the Colts looked like crap before they even lost Luck this year. 

[nyjunc]

Thank you.  Also, I don't know who Fitz won/lost against and who the backups played against.  Also, Fitz had a ridiculous game I think like 6/0 TD/INT.

I was stating that you cannot necessarily compare one season to another.  This much is true, although Fitz was pretty average (at best) with Houston, he played extremely well for the Jets this year.  I think it is fair to say that although he may never play that well again, that his play elevated the team; I doubt Geno plays as well but we will never know.

I just didn't care for the division sucks, Houston lost last year with Fitz, and won it this year without him - sorry, IMO bad logic there.

his ridiculous game skewed his stats for the season.

w/ Fitz Hou beat:

Was 4 wins

Oak 3

Buf 9

Ten twice 2

Jax 3

of 5 teams they beat only one had more than 4 wins and that team missed the playoffs

w/o Fitz Hou beat;

Bal 10 wins, made div rd

Jax 3

Cle 7 wins

 

 

[nyjunc]

Fitzpatrick broke his leg last year.  Before he went down, he was having a very good season, and the team was something like 6-4 in games he started.  The Texans moved on because 1) Fitz is getting older, and 2) they're stupid when it comes to the QB position, historically. 

And no, you can't really blame all this on Maccagnan himself, as he was the Director of College Scouting at Houston, not the GM.  And one of his first moves here was to bring in Fitz.

No one should be advocating for us to make the same mistake as the Texans.  If you're going to let an effective starter walk, you had better have a superior "Plan B" than Brian Hoyer.

team was 6-6 in games he started, 3-1 in games he didn't start

[bostonmajet]

So what Luck was hurt. The point here is that Fitz didnt make the playoffs with the Texans last year and thats not because its Andrew Lucks fault. The Jets had a chance to make the playoffs in week 17 against Buffalo. Fitz threw 3 picks in the last quarter to end our season, is that somehow Tom Brady's fault? I mean, thats the type of logic you're using here. 

Yes, if Tom Brady went down instead of Luck, we likely win the division this year instead of NE (or you can argue) and Indy likely wins the South. It isn't anybody's fault but your logic about Fitz sucking because the Texans got to the playoffs is just wrong.

Yeah, but it is my logic that is faulty. 

[Villain The Foe]

Yes, if Tom Brady went down instead of Luck, we likely win the division this year instead of NE (or you can argue) and Indy likely wins the South. It isn't anybody's fault but your logic about Fitz sucking because the Texans got to the playoffs is just wrong.

Yeah, but it is my logic that is faulty. 

The last time Tom Brady went down.....The Miami Dolphins won the division, by BEATING THE JETS. 

 

fail. 

[nyjunc]

Yes, if Tom Brady went down instead of Luck, we likely win the division this year instead of NE (or you can argue) and Indy likely wins the South. It isn't anybody's fault but your logic about Fitz sucking because the Texans got to the playoffs is just wrong.

Yeah, but it is my logic that is faulty. 

to be fair Indy was sucking with Luck this year too.  they were 2-5 with him.

[Villain The Foe]

Yes, if Tom Brady went down instead of Luck, we likely win the division this year instead of NE (or you can argue) and Indy likely wins the South. It isn't anybody's fault but your logic about Fitz sucking because the Texans got to the playoffs is just wrong.

Yeah, but it is my logic that is faulty. 

To further add, The last time Tom Brady went down the Patriots won 11 games with a no name Matt Cassel. 

This Fitz-led Jets team only won 10 games this year. 

[bostonmajet]

The last time Tom Brady went down.....The Miami Dolphins won the division, by BEATING THE JETS. 

 

fail. 

To further add, The last time Tom Brady went down the Patriots won 11 games with a no name Matt Cassel. 

This Fitz-led Jets team only won 10 games this year. 

really, now we are talking about how many season ago.  it is bad enough you are using last season's team competing against this season's team as way to say Fitz sucked this year, now we are going way back until what year?  That being said, you made my point: Brady going down effected the outcome of that division, just like Luck did. You used the Texans with and without Fitz as the measuring stick and then ONLY in winning the division (not the number of games won which BTW is the same). Why does a season without Houston or Fitz have anything to do with anything is beyond me.

But, you know what, this conversation has already slipped into the 'stupid' and I don't feel equipped to battle as such.

[nyjunc]

To further add, The last time Tom Brady went down the Patriots won 11 games with a no name Matt Cassel. 

This Fitz-led Jets team only won 10 games this year. 

to be fair, the sched was even weaker in 2008 and NE went from 16-0 w/ Brady starting to 10-5 w/ Cassell starting.  that is a HUGE difference.

[Villain The Foe]

really, now we are talking about how many season ago.  it is bad enough you are using last season's team competing against this season's team as way to say Fitz sucked this year, now we are going way back until what year?  That being said, you made my point: Brady going down effected the outcome of that division, just like Luck did. You used the Texans with and without Fitz as the measuring stick and then ONLY in winning the division (not the number of games won which BTW is the same). Why does a season without Houston or Fitz have anything to do with anything is beyond me.

But, you know what, this conversation has already slipped into the 'stupid' and I don't feel equipped to battle as such.

Why cant I talk about many seasons ago when you're talking about "theories" as if they would automatically be true. 

Furthermore, we wouldnt even be having this conversation if Fitz and the Jets would have beaten the Bills. They did have an opportunity to make the playoffs right? Yet they lost. The fact that Tom Brady has to be hurt in order for the Jets to make the playoffs (as if they didnt control their own destiny in week 17) only makes me laugh at this point. 

Fitzpatrick didnt make the playoffs with the Jets, nor did he with the Texans last year. Hoyer made the playoffs for the Texans. No need to make the Andrew Luck excuse yet ignore the fact that it was the Bills and not the Patriots the Jets lost to in week 17 when the Jets were in a "Win and in" scenario. 

 

The theories are the only thing I find stupid. 

[Villain The Foe]

to be fair, the sched was even weaker in 2008 and NE went from 16-0 w/ Brady starting to 10-5 w/ Cassell starting.  that is a HUGE difference.

To be fair, the Jets didnt have to win the AFC East in order to make the playoffs this year. 

[JohnJ]

To be fair, the Jets didnt have to win the AFC East in order to make the playoffs this year. 

That's very fair

[Villain The Foe]

That's very fair

 Thanks. 

[nyjunc]

To be fair, the Jets didnt have to win the AFC East in order to make the playoffs this year. 

I'm on your side here just getting all the facts out.  there's no reason we should have missed the playoffs, everything broke our way and we couldn't take advantage.

[Villain The Foe]

I'm on your side here just getting all the facts out.  there's no reason we should have missed the playoffs, everything broke our way and we couldn't take advantage.

I know, I wasnt disagreeing but adding to your facts. 

[Rangers9]

I disagree. With Geno in his rookie year the Jets were 8-8. I think he would have played better this season and wouldn't have been a disaster. I think we'd have been around 8-8 with Geno.

[JiFtheOracle]

Fitzpatrick broke his leg last year.  Before he went down, he was having a very good season, and the team was something like 6-4 in games he started.  The Texans moved on because 1) Fitz is getting older, and 2) they're stupid when it comes to the QB position, historically. 

And no, you can't really blame all this on Maccagnan himself, as he was the Director of College Scouting at Houston, not the GM.  And one of his first moves here was to bring in Fitz.

No one should be advocating for us to make the same mistake as the Texans.  If you're going to let an effective starter walk, you had better have a superior "Plan B" than Brian Hoyer.

Well, they beat us and made the playoffs, so...

[Jetsfan80]

Well, they beat us and made the playoffs, so...

Out of the weakest division in the NFL, in a year when Andrew Luck was injured for most of the season.  No, we should not have lost to them, but we were the better team overall.  And we would certainly not have gotten waxed 30-0 in the playoffs.  Coulda/woulda/shoulda, sure, but it's not really a relevant reason to bash Fitz.

[Jetsfan80]

I disagree. With Geno in his rookie year the Jets were 8-8. I think he would have played better this season and wouldn't have been a disaster. I think we'd have been around 8-8 with Geno.

I already disproved the idea that Geno's Jets going 8-8 is irrelevant in another thread.  That team was outscored by 97 points overall and Geno played terrible.  They should have won 5 games.  This claim was validated based on his performance the following season, when the team around him was not significantly different and they went 4-12.  If he played like he did in his first 2 years, the 2015 Jets go 6-10 at best.  If he showed some improvement, maybe we go 7-9.